mogami heavy cruiser running over ships issue

[Webster]

i was running the midway mission today and as usual the results were good and as i was slipping away i went to the clouds to watch my escape and listen to those great new airplane sounds.

well i have seen destroyers get run over before but this was looking intentional. three mogami class heavy cruisers were mixed in with about a dozen destroyers surrounding my position. the destroyers were moving around as needed manuvering to take turns searching or listening but the heavy cruisers were basically just circle around me and be damned whats in front of them.

one cruiser rammed a destroyer and pushed it for a while till they seperated, another cruiser push a destroyer untill it went under and capsized (but it never sank even though the engines stopped) the third cruiser ran into three different destroyers pushing each for a few minutes befor seperating.

this little bug is old but i wonder if anyone has found a tweak for the AI so the cruisers dont respond to be alerted by causing them to think they are destroyers. they should not be sub hunting and if this could be changed so they move on with the rest of the task force it would solve a most annoying bug.


another side note to what i saw lead me to another "bug"

if a ship gets hit it should recieve damage, im not saying something equal to a torpedo but both ships should get say half a torpedos damage. and anytime a ship is pinned under the bow of another ship and gets pushed under water it should sink from flooding if nothing else. personally in the case of a destroyer i think it should explode and be cut in half when a heavy cruiser hits it broadside.

what do you guys think about this stuff?

what type of thyings are possible to maybe remedy this stuff?

[Task Force]

Ive seen that happen to in the game, The captian of the bigger ship goes crasy and runs over the smaller ship.:rotfl: I just look at it as one less pair of DC racks pounding me.:D

[Webster]

Ive seen that happen to in the game, The captian of the bigger ship goes crasy and runs over the smaller ship.:rotfl: I just look at it as one less pair of DC racks pounding me.:D

well unless im imagining it i only see this happen with the mogami class heavy cruiser so im thinking it is just that ship or maybe just the heavy cruisers that have an AI glitch.

im hoping someone has ideas on switching the heavy cruisers alerted AI response to use the light cruisers alerted AI response because they seem to act the way they should. :hmm:

[Task Force]

In that mission. where the little task force is going towards teh bigger task force. The battleship Yamato also runs over one of the distroyers, Maby they crossed paths and maby they had there paths cross in the mission file at just the right time.;)

[Webster]

In that mission. where the little task force is going towards teh bigger task force. The battleship Yamato also runs over one of the distroyers, Maby they crossed paths and maby they had there paths cross in the mission file at just the right time.;)

well in the heat of battle it can happen but what i noticed will repeat itself every time, only the number of destroyers run over changes.

the big "thats not right" thing for me is when the heavy cruisers will circle you like they are getting ready for depth charge runs when in reality they should be hauling butt out of there while the destroyers keep me away from them.

[gimpy117]

so the japanese have several bernards as well...

[Webster]

ok it would seem the problem is that the cruisers dont follow the preset course like they should. after i sink the lead capital ships they join the only group of ships left, the DD and follow the course they are following which is the search pattern on search and destroy mission after my sub. the cruisers just follow the destroyers circling me but since they cant manuver as well they run into some of the destroyers.

i wonder if it is just single missions need to have capital ships and cruisers set up as a seperate detatched group from the destroyers so that they will maintain course for the most part and dont follow the pack so to speak.

has anyone noticed problems with ships in career mode?

[Mush Martin]

I wonder if thats correct or if it just looks that way.

when I was making up auto evasion for shIII I ended up
having quite a few experiences with missed waypoints
that were too close to maneuver to so the ship would
in essence circle trying to turn in but would usually not
make it the first several tries or before I ran out of patience.

I wonder about the course layed in for the cruisers as there
behaviour apes the experiences I had, is it possible its one thing
but looks like another,

just a thought.
also it seems odd that the cruisers and there escort would be
in different groups its a million tons of work to do it manually
thered be no reason or advantage, they should be in the same
group.

so escorts prosecuting contacts
cruisers trying to get back around on the waypoint.
and
escorts unable to anticipate the moves of the heavies
the heavies not programmed to avoid the escort as the escort is.

plausible if a bit thin and it doesnt explain why only mogami's
the type CA isnt the cause if mikuma or takao arent doing it.
so its a mission error or a dat error

flip a coin.

M

[edit] ya might check the mission in ME just to make
sure there was no loop ordered on the last waypoint
nearest the engagement, I doubt it but hey better
eliminated than not.

M

[Webster]

I wonder if thats correct or if it just looks that way.



[edit] ya might check the mission in ME just to make
sure there was no loop ordered on the last waypoint
nearest the engagement, I doubt it but hey better
eliminated than not.

M

no this was the stock midway mission and no where near any waypoint turns.

in the main group i sank the lead kongo battleship and all three carriers so all that was left were all the DD and the cruisers. the light cruisers went ahead following the plotted course (but in the alerted zig zag before returning to course).

the DD swarmed me like a hornets nest and there was the mogami heavy cruisers, 3 or 4 of em i think, right in line like the indians circling the wagon train. i swear they were following the same search pattern as DD like they thought they had depth charges or something :rotfl:

now if any carrier or that lead kongo BB escapes then the heavy cruisers continue on following them. its only when all 4 capital ships sink, the heavy cruisers act as though they dont know what to do and just copy what the destroyers are doing.

[Mush Martin]

interesting

I wonder if the cruisers are typed DD

[bigboywooly]

Light cruisers in SH3 followed the same AI pattern as the mogami is showing
IE one of a DD - esp when in company with destroyers
So much so we thought about adding DC racks to the Southhamptons

The Br heavy cruisers also showed the same tendancies but they tended to sail with heavier battlegroups so not so apparent

AI behaviour per designation ( type=7 etc ) is unfortunateky hardcoded in IIRC the .exe
And am pretty sure it is the same AI routines as in SH3

[Mush Martin]

Thanks brudda:up:

[Webster]

Light cruisers in SH3 followed the same AI pattern as the mogami is showing
IE one of a DD - esp when in company with destroyers
So much so we thought about adding DC racks to the Southhamptons

The Br heavy cruisers also showed the same tendancies but they tended to sail with heavier battlegroups so not so apparent

AI behaviour per designation ( type=7 etc ) is unfortunateky hardcoded in IIRC the .exe
And am pretty sure it is the same AI routines as in SH3

so then even if they were made into their own group they would still act like DD when alerted because of the AI?

what about ships that get runded over and dont sink? whats the best way to give them damage from collission and flooding from being plowed under by another ship? or is that also hard coded stuff?

[bigboywooly]

No damage isnt hardcoded
Not sure why they dont take damage from collisions :hmm:

Damage modelling is an art in itself - Observer may be able to help you on that one as he has had heaps to do with that side of things

[Webster]

No damage isnt hardcoded
Not sure why they dont take damage from collisions :hmm:

Damage modelling is an art in itself - Observer may be able to help you on that one as he has had heaps to do with that side of things

i suspect its something connected to that bow issue with the DD where if your torpedo hits the very tip of the bow the ship gets no damage. i think the bows may not have anything to damage as far as the game can see.

one of the things that ruin the whole emersion factor for me is seeing a cruiser doing 12kts hit a DD broadside and it doesnt break in half and sink. to see it get pushed along untill it slides out of the way or capsizes and neither ship is damaged is just stupid. i sure wish someone who knew how would fix the collission damage for ships. IMO a ship to ship collission should give at least half the hit power of a torpedo hit to each ship.

[Mush Martin]

I thought all that stuff was in the sim files ?

[Webster]

I thought all that stuff was in the sim files ?

kinda sorta maybe in a way :doh:

the damage models for ships are like trying to understand a woman, hopeless.


to fool with that stuff you need a good brain with ability to concentrate while doing it. (this is not me)

i played around with hit points and armor but that only works IF the damage model is already there for you and in a somewhat complete form. you can blow the shokaku stern off all the way to the flight deck only to see a gapping hole and the props spinning away with the ship still under full steam because its props are indestructable due to not having a working damage model for them lol.

[Mush Martin]

I will not mod I will only write tut's
I will not mod I will only write tut's
I will not mod I will only write tut's
I will not mod I will only write tut's
I will not mod I will only write tut's
I will not mod I will only write tut's
I will not mod I will only write tut's
I will not mod I will only write tut's
I will not mod I will only write tut's
I will not mod I will only write tut's

:know:

[Webster]

I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's

:know:


:up:

[peabody]

has anyone noticed problems with ships in career mode?

Just a bit of info as far as career. During a Task Force attack I spun the scope around to see a DD headed straight for me and then it stopped and backed up, and a Carrier went between us. So they do avoid other ships. But I don't think I have ever seen a Mogami in Career, if I did I was so busy, I didn't realize it. But it did make me think when you asked, it is one ship that I never remember seeing. And I am one that likes to use the external camera to see some of the action. I don't use it to gain an advantage, usually only when I'm at 250ft and going 1/3, I might just watch the ships sink (if I hit any:rotfl:) but that is one ship I NEVER remember seeing. And it is unique in it's shape, so I think I would notice.

Not much help for your question, but just an observation that in my case the Mogami has not been common in career, and I play stock 1.5 so there are lots of ships.

Peabody

[Mush Martin]

I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's
I will mod and I will write tut's

:know:

:up:


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

:|\\Subtle