Little question, torpedo speeds.

[RAM]

Maybe asked a thousand times here. I did search about this but I don't have a clear answer to my question.

Configuration: DW+1.04 patch+LWAMI 3.08 mod.

If I understood it right, when you enter a torpedo speed preset, it lasts for as long as the pre-activated run lasts. As soon as the weapon is activated, it accelerates to top speed.

Right?.


Well, dunno what's wrong in my end then. I enter a torpedo speed preset, and the torpedo runs at that speed for the lenght of it's run, no matter if it's activated or not. If I set an ADCAP at 30knots, it will run at 30knots until it shuts down no matter what.

What's the problem here?. I did understood wrong how the preset works, or do I have some strange problem here?.


P.S.: I've done a couple de-reinstalls, the torpedo behavior is the same no matter what.

[fatty]

I have not played DW for a long time but if I recall correctly this is normal behaviour. Thankfully there are only two instances I remember where you need to reduce the speed from maximum. First, when firing in passive mode, the acoustic sensors on DW torpedoes functioned best at a reduced speed (~45 knots IIRC). Second, you may get a range boost, but I always had trouble getting good solutions at such extreme ranges and the data was always so old by the time your torpedo was in the area that it was rather impractical.

EDIT: I think someone once mentioned that a slower-running torpedo might be more difficult to detect allowing for stealthy attacks, but I do not know about this for sure.

EDIT AGAIN: I suppose you could also fiddle with the speeds if you are launching a large spread and need to stagger the torps over a distance, but I have a hard time imagining an in-game scenario for that.

[RAM]

Well, after reading the blue book of tactics I think firing a torpedo at slow speed could be quite useful as they should be quite a bit quieter than the same torpedo running at top speed (or so it seems after reading said document).

My question is mostly because I'm planning to do the jump to multiplayer soon. In single player mode there's not much of a reason to use slow speed torpedoes, but I can see how they might be useful if playing vs a human player. For instance, firing a slow torpedo from the other side of the layer where the enemy is (with depth settings so the torpedo changes layers when activated), and activating it when it's near him from a bearing he doesn't expect. One moment the guy is confident thinking everything's going OK, next second he finds a torpedo accelerating at top speed coming from nowhere and giving him no warning at all because up that time he had never heard it coming.

if the normal behavior is for the torpedo to keep it's speed for the complete run, then it seems I've gotten a lot of things wrong until now when reading about DW...guess I'll have to wait a bit more before doing the jump to MP gaming ;)

Thanks for the answer.

[GrayOwl]

Well, after reading the blue book of tactics I think firing a torpedo at slow speed could be quite useful as they should be quite a bit quieter than the same torpedo running at top speed (or so it seems after reading said document).

My question is mostly because I'm planning to do the jump to multiplayer soon. In single player mode there's not much of a reason to use slow speed torpedoes, but I can see how they might be useful if playing vs a human player. For instance, firing a slow torpedo from the other side of the layer where the enemy is (with depth settings so the torpedo changes layers when activated), and activating it when it's near him from a bearing he doesn't expect. One moment the guy is confident thinking everything's going OK, next second he finds a torpedo accelerating at top speed coming from nowhere and giving him no warning at all because up that time he had never heard it coming.

if the normal behavior is for the torpedo to keep it's speed for the complete run, then it seems I've gotten a lot of things wrong until now when reading about DW...guess I'll have to wait a bit more before doing the jump to MP gaming ;)

Thanks for the answer.

:p You speak to remove the message a "Torpedo in the water" for Acoustics?
Only find of the player of a hostile torpedo (Manual marks), will have assignment of a label for the purpose on NAV (F5 station) to a map.

[RAM]

Keep in mind, I'm still a noob in what regards to DW. I assumed no TIW warning would be given if the player's platform can't hear the torpedo launch... So I assumed that if I am in a different layer than the enemy and at a decent distance, the torpedo launch won't be heard, and so he would receive no TIW warning when launching. But now I'm not sure.

anyway, what I'm asking is wether the torpedo speed setting in the weapons station is for all the torpedo run, or if it's for the pre-activated run only.

[Molon Labe]

Maybe asked a thousand times here. I did search about this but I don't have a clear answer to my question.

Configuration: DW+1.04 patch+LWAMI 3.08 mod.

If I understood it right, when you enter a torpedo speed preset, it lasts for as long as the pre-activated run lasts. As soon as the weapon is activated, it accelerates to top speed.

Where did you get that idea?

[RAM]

Where did you get that idea?

Seawolves' blue book of tactics. Found at Subguru.com.

Chapter V, torpedo presets.
Sub-chapter "Speed".

SPEED is a very misunderstood setting. Normal speed is 55 knots which gives you about 50,000 yards reach. A slower weapon speed increases the weapon range, (about 54,000 yards at 35 knots). For long shots you will need this reach. What the manual does not tell you is that these are pre-enable speeds. Once the weapon enables and acquires a target, it goes to 55 knots no matter what the setting. So you can catch a running boat even if you pre-set for 35 knots. Running shallow will also give great range. For a long shot at a submerged target fire it from 100 feet even though you truly know the target is at 1,000 feet. Set the enable run depth for 1,000 feet. This can buy you about 2,000 extra yards of run. When the weapon enables it will dive to the depth needed for the hit. One other side benefit is that slower weapons are slightly quieter and therefore harder to detect. It is much easier to get a kill with them.

[Molon Labe]

The Bluebook is a tactical guide for 688(I). :nope: For understanding DW/LWAMI functionality--especaially if you're troubleshooting to the point that you're reinstalling the sim--I'd recommend sticking to official documentation for DW and LWAMI (the manual and the LWAMI readme).

But to answer the question directly, DW torps run at their assigned speed, this does not change on enable, and LWAMI 3.08 does not change this.

[RAM]

oh,I see...thought the blue book was also appliable to DW.
LWAMI documentation says nothing explicit about the torpedoes accelerating or not upon activation... I took it as that nothing had changed in that department from stock (and in this it seems I was right), and given what the blue book said about the torpedoes accelerating not being present in the manual but yes in the game...well you see why I was so confused :).

Thanks for the answer, has finally solved my confusion.

(BTW I know a new version of LWAMI is in the works...any chance something like what I explained above will be in?. Guess not but asking is quite easy ;))

[Molon Labe]

oh,I see...thought the blue book was also appliable to DW.
LWAMI documentation says nothing explicit about the torpedoes accelerating or not upon activation... I took it as that nothing had changed in that department from stock (and in this it seems I was right), and given what the blue book said about the torpedoes accelerating not being present in the manual but yes in the game...well you see why I was so confused :).

Thanks for the answer, has finally solved my confusion.

(BTW I know a new version of LWAMI is in the works...any chance something like what I explained above will be in?. Guess not but asking is quite easy ;))

It's entirely do-able on the doctrine level. I think. But I'm not the doctrine guy, that's LW. And he hasn't been around much.

[nemo67]

Globolebo from mille-sabords as write a script for this.

in the torpedo.TXT
fichier TORPEDO.TXT


; $Header: Torpedo.txt Tue Jan 4 09:54:23 EST 2005 mike $
; $Revision: 17 $
; $Copyrt1: Copyright © 2003, Sonalysts, Inc. All rights reserved. $
;
; major changes by Amizaur
; random snake or circle direction for AI torps, always right for human torps
; snake pattern reduced from +/- 45deg to +/- 30deg
; avoid-casualities by AI mod 1.01 (bug in default ceiling fixed)
; search depth recalculated from meters to feets
; beta variable random search depth for air-dropped torps
; Remove unnecessary Homing variable adjustment to ensure torpedoes search after spoofing LW
; refined variable AI search depth and added ASuWSafety LW
; lowered preenable depth for non-submarine torpedoes to provide better running LW


var PreenableCourse
var PreEnableSpeed
var PreenableDepth
var RunToEnable
var Runout
var CircleSearchPattern
var Enabled
var Homing
var SearchDepth
var Floor
var Ceiling
var AcousticMode
var InitTime
var initX
var initY
var run
var snakecrs
var snakeleft
var AirLaunched
var AItorpedo
var SubmergedTarget
var RunOnceDone
var ASuWSafety
var TorpMaxDepth
var LNCTerrainAlt
var prel


IF INIT THEN {
InitTime = ( Time + 5 )
Enabled = 0
Homing = 0
CircleSearchPattern = 0
AcousticMode = 1
; snakeleft = false
IF ( rnd 100 > 50 ) THEN {
snakeleft = false
DebugOut "snakeleft"
} ELSE {
snakeleft = false
DebugOut "snakeright"
} ENDIF

initX = OwnX
initY = OwnY

ASuWSafety = 0
LNCTerrainAlt = TerrainAlt

PreenableDepth = OwnAlt
prel = -1

IF PreenableDepth > 0 THEN {
PreenableDepth = -26
} ENDIF

; Default to no runout monitoring
Runout = -1

TorpMaxDepth = ( MinAlt / 0.3048 )

; Default to Torpedo Max Depth floor
Floor = ( TorpMaxDepth + 50 )

DebugOut Ownname
; Default to 25.5ft ceiling
Ceiling = -25.5

; Default to 100 ft search depth
SearchDepth = -100

IF OwnAlt > 0 THEN {
; Default to roughly 10 yards enable for Air-launched torps
RunToEnable = 10
AirLaunched = true
} ELSE {
; Default to roughly 300yd enable
RunToEnable = 300
AirLaunched = false
} ENDIF

IF ( PreenableDepth > Ceiling ) THEN {
PreenableDepth = Ceiling
} ENDIF

IF OwnAlt < 0 THEN {
SetAlt PreenableDepth
} ENDIF

} ELSE {
IF ( PreenableDepth > Ceiling ) THEN {
PreenableDepth = Ceiling
} ENDIF
IF ( PreEnableDepth < Floor ) THEN {
PreEnableDepth = Floor
} ENDIF

; IF Floor < ( LNCTerrainAlt + 30 ) AND ( Floor != -10 ) THEN {
; IF ( LNCTerrainAlt <= -40 ) THEN {
; Floor = ( LNCTerrainAlt + 30 )
; } ELSE {
; Floor = -10
; } ENDIF
; } ENDIF

IF ( SearchDepth > -26 ) AND AItorpedo AND RunOnceDone THEN {
SearchDepth = -26
} ENDIF

; AI or human player torpedo
IF NOT RunOnceDone THEN {
DebugOut "RunOnceDone output"
DebugOut OwnName
DebugOut "RunToEnable"
DebugValueOut RunToEnable
DebugOut "Ceiling and Floor"
DebugValueOut Ceiling
DebugValueOut Floor
DebugOut "PreenableDepth, SearchDepth"
DebugValueOut PreenableDepth
DebugValueOut SearchDepth
IF ( ceiling == -25.5 ) THEN {
AItorpedo = True

IF Floor < ( LNCTerrainAlt + 30 ) AND ( Floor != -26 ) THEN {
IF ( LNCTerrainAlt <= -56 ) THEN {
Floor = ( LNCTerrainAlt + 30 )
} ELSE {
Floor = -26
} ENDIF
} ENDIF

IF ( SearchDepth < -6.6 ) THEN {
DebugOut "search depth > 6.6ft, AI launched at submerged target"
DebugValueOut SearchDepth
SubmergedTarget = True
ASuWSafety = 1
} ELSE {
DebugOut "search depth = 6.6ft, AI launched at surface or near-surface target"
SubmergedTarget = False
ASuWSafety = 0
} ENDIF

DebugOut "Racalculating SearchDepth from meters to feets"
SearchDepth = ( SearchDepth / 0.3048 )

; variable search depth - in case of problems, throw away this whoole section

IF SubmergedTarget THEN {
DebugOut "Layer depth:"
DebugValueOut Layer
IF ( Layer < SearchDepth ) THEN {
DebugOut "setting random searchdepth"
IF ( ( rnd 99 > 60 ) AND AirLaunched ) OR ( ( rnd 100 > 50 ) AND NOT AirLaunched ) THEN {
DebugOut "below layer:"
SearchDepth = ( Layer - rnd 100 )
} ELSE {
DebugOut "over layer:"
SearchDepth = rnd ( Layer + 100 )
IF ( SearchDepth > -100 ) THEN {
SearchDepth = -100
} ENDIF
} ENDIF

IF ( SearchDepth < ( TerrainAlt + 30 ) ) THEN {
SearchDepth = ( TerrainAlt + 30 )
DebugOut "Ops, our rnd searchdepth greater than waterdepth, reducing!"
} ENDIF
DebugValueOut SearchDepth
} ELSEIF ( Layer > Ceiling ) THEN {
IF ( TerrainAlt > TorpMaxDepth ) THEN {
SearchDepth = ( TerrainAlt * 0.5 )
} ELSE {
IF ( TorpMaxDepth < -2000 ) THEN {
SearchDepth = ( -1200 + RND 400 )
} ELSE {
SearchDepth = ( TorpMaxDepth * 0.5 )
} ENDIF
} ENDIF
} ENDIF
} ELSE {
SearchDepth = ( -125 + RND 50 )
} ENDIF

; end of variable search depth calc

IF ( SearchDepth < ( TerrainAlt + 30 ) ) THEN {
SearchDepth = ( TerrainAlt + 30 )
} ELSEIF ( SearchDepth > Ceiling ) THEN {
SearchDepth = Ceiling
} ENDIF
DebugOut "New Search Depth:"
DebugValueOut SearchDepth
; we also made sure that searchdepth is not in conflict with the ceiling or Floor

; RunOnceDone = True
} ELSE {
AItorpedo = False
DebugOut Ownname
DebugOut "recognized as human player torpedo"
; snakeleft = false
; forced always right snake/circle for human player torpedo
; condition for snakeleft depending on even/uneven search depth could be here too

IF ( Ceiling >= -60 ) THEN {
ASuWSafety = 0
} ELSE {
ASuWSafety = 1
} ENDIF
} ENDIF
RunOnceDone = True
} ENDIF

; Home
IF NEWTRACK THEN {
IF ASuWSafety THEN {
IF ( TgtClass $= "SURF" ) OR ( TgtAlt >= -40 ) THEN {
DROP
} ELSE {
DebugOut Ownname
DEBUGOUT "Torpedo Acquired"
DebugOut TargetName
SETTACTIC "TorpHoming"
;IF ( AcousticMode == 1 ) THEN { SetSpd MaxSpd } ELSE { SetSpd 40 } ENDIF
} ENDIF
} ELSE {
DebugOut Ownname
DEBUGOUT "Torpedo Acquired"
DebugOut TargetName
SETTACTIC "TorpHoming"
;IF ( AcousticMode == 1 ) THEN { SetSpd MaxSpd } ELSE { SetSpd 40 } ENDIF
} ENDIF
} ENDIF

IF LOSTTRACK THEN {
DEBUGOUT "Torpedo Lost Target"
; Homing = ( Homing - 1 )

} ENDIF

run = xyrng ( OwnX - initX ) ( OwnY - initY )

IF ownspd < ( maxSpd * 1.5 ) THEN {
; Don't try to maneuver if we've just fallen out of the sky,
; wait until speed is reasonable


IF ( Homing == 0 ) AND ( OwnAlt < 0 ) THEN {
; Preenable Steer Or Search
IF Enabled THEN {
; Snake Or Circle
IF CircleSearchPattern THEN {
; lower priority to make sure we don't interfere with homing
IF ( AcousticMode == 1 ) THEN { SetSpd MaxSpd } ELSE { SetSpd 40 } ENDIF
prel = 0
SETPRIORITY 224
IF snakeleft THEN
SetRudder -10
ELSE
SetRudder 10
ENDIF
} ELSE {
; lower priority to make sure we don't interfere with homing
IF ( AcousticMode == 1 ) THEN { SetSpd MaxSpd } ELSE { SetSpd 40 } ENDIF
prel = 0
SETPRIORITY 224
snakecrs = RelativeBearing PreenableCourse OwnCrs
IF snakecrs > 30 THEN {
snakeleft = true
} ELSEIF snakecrs < -30 THEN {
snakeleft = false
} ENDIF
IF snakeleft THEN
SetRudder -3
ELSE
SetRudder 3
ENDIF
; SNAKE PreenableCourse
} ENDIF

PreEnableDepth = SearchDepth

SetAlt SearchDepth
; DebugOut "setting alt Search depth, values of SrchDpth and PrnDpth:"
; DebugValueOut SearchDepth
; DebugValueOut PreEnableDepth
} ELSE {
IF Time > InitTime THEN {
; lower priority to make sure we don't interfere with homing
SETPRIORITY 224
SetCrs PreenableCourse
IF PreenableDepth > 0 THEN {
PreenableDepth = Ceiling
} ENDIF
SetAlt PreenableDepth
; DebugOut "SetAlt Preenabledepth 2"
; DebugValueOut PreenableDepth
} ENDIF
} ENDIF
} ENDIF

; Enable
IF NOT Enabled THEN {
IF ( RunToEnable != -1 ) AND ( run >= RunToEnable ) THEN {
IF ( AcousticMode == 0 ) THEN {
PASSIVEENABLE
DEBUGOUT "Torpedo Passive Enabled"
} ELSE {
ENABLE
DEBUGOUT "Torpedo Active Enabled"
} ENDIF
IF Not CircleSearchPattern THEN {
SetRudder 3
} ENDIF
Enabled = 1
RunToEnable = -1
DEBUGVALUEOUT TIME
} ELSE {
IF ( Time > InitTime ) AND ( OwnAlt <= 0 ) THEN {
; lower priority to make sure we don't interfere with homing
SETPRIORITY 224
SetCrs PreenableCourse
SetAlt PreenableDepth
; DebugOut "SetAlt Preenabledepth 3"
; DebugValueOut PreenableDepth
} ENDIF
} ENDIF
IF ( prel != 0 ) THEN { SetSpd PreEnableSpeed } ELSE { IF ( AcousticMode == 1 ) THEN { SetSpd MaxSpd } ELSE { SetSpd 40 } ENDIF } ENDIF
} ENDIF
} ENDIF

; Shutdown
IF ( Runout != -1 ) AND ( run >= Runout ) THEN {
DEBUGOUT "Torpedo failed to acquire"
RunOut = -1
SHUTDOWN
} ENDIF
} ENDIF

---------------------------------
And now go in the database object dialog and change the passive sonar SL from 80 to 30

And in the thrust dialog the cspeednoise from 20 to 70

Now when you fire a torpedo active at 20kts she's very quiet and speed climbs to 55 kts when it activates

In passive does it climbs to 40 kts to keep a good ability to listen

[Molon Labe]

Thanks for posting that. Looks like a modified LWAMI 4 playtest doctrine. It would have been nice if they'd listed their changes so it would be easy to see what was different. There are lines in there which should both speed the weapon up/down on enable and on homing. Not sure why you'd need the lines for homing if you already have the lines for enable... my guess is that the original LWAMI 4 doctrine they copied sped/slowed the weapon on homing but NOT enable and they (wisely, IMO) wanted to change that.

Any idea what the "prel" variable is? I can't tell for sure but I think it helps put the torp back on preenable speed when pre-enabled. I don't know why you'd want it to do that once you already blew your cover, at least with an active anyway.

[nemo67]

I test the lwami 4 a few months ago but I admit that I didn't watched since ...