Need programming help

[irish1958]

An unfinished portion of SH3 is the function of the medic. As Most of you know, he has no function and just sits around with his thumb up--you know where.:up:
Also on long patrols, there are no illnesses, no accidents, no disabled or injured seamen. Most unrealistic. :x
Well, there is a fairly easy way to develop scenarios that make the medic indispensable, and randomly introduce an unlimited number or unexpected accidents, illnesses, deaths, and disabilities both treatable by the medic and permanent until the end of the patrol. It also allows the use of battlefield promotions and the awarding of injury medals neither of which is now possible. It also makes it possible for any SHIII Kaleun to develop and share his own scenarios.
I have no programming skills :damn: and cannot implement these improvements in the game, but I think the program necessary is relatively simple and requires only changing two files. If anyone can help, please contact me so we can work together to improve this wonderful game. :sunny:

[wdq4587]

Unless you can get the game source code, I guess there are no way to add these to the existing game. And I guess most player will not have interesting on that. They need forcus on other more important things.

[Friction150]

Unless you can get the game source code, I guess there are no way to add these to the existing game. And I guess most player will not have interesting on that. They need forcus on other more important things.

Quite the opposite mate. Most (not all) people here are all for realism. I too, have wondered why there were medics in the game when they have no use. I always thought that maybe people would get hurt in strafing runs, but the screen just gets blurry. Then you get hit with a bomb and they all die instantly... there's no medium there. But I do agree that it would involve a heap of work with coding and scripting to work.

[wdq4587]

Simply said about realism, there are many aspect you may want add. I think my idea to let the crew have more beard when they patrol long time is cool. But that can not be first list.

And about the medic, I agree you that's the unfinished part of the game. But in fact you can not hope medic can do much in such a little boat in such a big ocean. (I know many people have more confidence on medic in real life than me). And I disagree you with accident not by enemy and illnesses, caption can do nothing with that. Add such things will let the player fell discouragement. (Or you hope the caption decide return to base because one crew illnesses very bad?)

But this discussion is meaning less. As a programmer I can simply tell you is it seems no way to do that unless the developer open they source (may be 10 years later). Just like my beard idea. I don't know does SH3 has script or not (I mean executeable script), but the medic mostly like program in hard code layer.

[h.sie]

somewhere (i do not know where) i read, that the fatigue of those crew members, which are in the same room with the medic, reduces faster than crew members, which are not in the same room. but i have not tested that.......

[GlobalExplorer]

But this discussion is meaning less. As a programmer I can simply tell you is it seems no way to do that unless the developer open they source (may be 10 years later). Just like my beard idea. I don't know does SH3 has script or not (I mean executeable script), but the medic mostly like program in hard code layer.

Shut up if you don't know what you're talking about. I have discussed this with irish1958 and the concept seems completely doable if you have an application to modify the crew_config files. My recommendation was to leave it because of complexity and my previous experience with savegame modding, but not because it requires the source code.

[irish1958]

But this discussion is meaning less. As a programmer I can simply tell you is it seems no way to do that unless the developer open they source (may be 10 years later). Just like my beard idea. I don't know does SH3 has script or not (I mean executeable script), but the medic mostly like program in hard code layer.
Shut up if you don't know what you're talking about. I have discussed this with irish1958 and the concept seems completely doable if you have an application to modify the crew_config files. My recommendation was to leave it because of complexity and my previous experience with savegame modding, but not because it requires the source code.

I agree. SH3CMDR writes to these files, and they appear in the game. Also, when I write to these files manually, the changes appear in the game and act as I have said. The en_menu file (or fr_menu or de_menu) must also be changed. Again, when I write to this file manually, the changes appear in the game. Unfortunately, SH3CMDR has ceased development and is no longer offered or supported. Perhaps if someone knows the workings of CMDR, it can be added as a mod to this. The ideal way for the mod to function would be to be as an add-on to SH3CMDR so it would load when the game does. Alternately, it could be activated by adding it to the Ubisoft\SilentHunterIII\ folder in the same way that SH3Weather is added.

With no programming skills or knowledge, I cannot go forward with this concept.

This is the SilentHunterIII Mod workshop. The purpose of this forum is to develop mods for SHIII, which is why I have broached this idea. iF it can't be done, so be it.

[GlobalExplorer]

I am afraid that's the problem, it can be done but it requires programming skills. With no one in sight that is going to do that atm you could lay out your idea in the forum and see whether someone takes it up.

I have thought about whether it could be incorporated into Sh3Gen - and it could - but would be fiendishly complex to use and, since I have finished with this mod, I really don't think I will ever consider major updates like this.

It's still a great idea, but not so much if it stands on it's own. Have you ever thought about combining it with technical faults on the submarine?

[Pisces]

somewhere (i do not know where) i read, that the fatigue of those crew members, which are in the same room with the medic, reduces faster than crew members, which are not in the same room. but i have not tested that.......In GWX (2.1) manual, top of page 81. He's not useless. But that depends on the fatigue model you are playing with, and the amount of crew you have.

[irish1958]

GlobalExplorer wrote

It's still a great idea, but not so much if it stands on it's own. Have you ever thought about combining it with technical faults on the submarine?[/quote]

Yes, but the problem is that the disability would show up in the game without any explanation as to what is has happened. For this you need to read the en_menu file and write the explanation in the information box in the game.

[irish1958]

somewhere (i do not know where) i read, that the fatigue of those crew members, which are in the same room with the medic, reduces faster than crew members, which are not in the same room. but i have not tested that.......In GWX (2.1) manual, top of page 81. He's not useless. But that depends on the fatigue model you are playing with, and the amount of crew you have.

That is true. In my tests I have found that the fatigue will resolve about twice as fast with the medic present. The same is true for the morale problem in the NYGM Mod. However, in game play with various fatigue models, I have found this to be not significant (for my style of play).

[bracer]

I know some basic programming, I'll try and see if it's something I could manage.
I'll PM you if I get any succes.
Sounds like a great idea!
/Bracer

[GlobalExplorer]

Yes, but the problem is that the disability would show up in the game without any explanation as to what is has happened. For this you need to read the en_menu file and write the explanation in the information box in the game.

It could also be made to appear in the war diary (.clg file in savegame).

[irish1958]

Yes, but the problem is that the disability would show up in the game without any explanation as to what is has happened. For this you need to read the en_menu file and write the explanation in the information box in the game.
It could also be made to appear in the war diary (.clg file in savegame).
Thanks, I'll check into it and see if it works.

Bracer wrote: " I know some basic programming, I'll try and see if it's something I could manage.
I'll PM you if I get any succes.
Sounds like a great idea!
/Bracer"
Thanks

[Friction150]

But this discussion is meaning less. As a programmer I can simply tell you is it seems no way to do that unless the developer open they source (may be 10 years later). Just like my beard idea. I don't know does SH3 has script or not (I mean executeable script), but the medic mostly like program in hard code layer.

Shut up if you don't know what you're talking about. I have discussed this with irish1958 and the concept seems completely doable if you have an application to modify the crew_config files. My recommendation was to leave it because of complexity and my previous experience with savegame modding, but not because it requires the source code.

WDQ4587- Regardless if you are a programmer, it doesn't mean you know every program that's out there. I've written programs before, but I will fully admit that I don't know very much about SH3 programming. This conversation is not meaningless. I've seen many "meaningless" conversations and "dumb" ideas turn into gold on here.

I agree with GlobalExplorer. It could be done, the question is: Is it worth the time invested into it to do it. You would have to test alot of unseen aspects of the game, and you would have bugs to fix. It could possibly be done with crew config files, just like fatigue is. Just my 2 cents. I hate hearing that things can't be done without someone at least trying.

[wdq4587]

Really interesting reply. Speak loud dos not mean you got the truth. I know that medic is not total useless in game, but what you can change (I mean all the modder can change) is only under the game developer programming frame. That sometimes really let the addon maker fell discouragement.

Just tell me what you thinking you can do with medic and the distance between what you can do with the irish1958's hope? Does there are any possibility to implement "unexpected accidents, illnesses, deaths, and disabilities"?

And if anyone know there are executeable script (I mean support if else for while) in sh3, please tell me where I can found it. I will check it. Simply said without a running able script or program language code. You can not program. Whether you thinking what you doing are how near the program.

If you want change the crew_config files, you don't need program skill, you just need take too much time to change it and see what happen. Although the program skill will help and let you know where is the limit, because the programmer can guess what other programmer (I mean game developer) thinking. I really see some addon maker have do something I said impossible in other game. But that's not the way I am thinking, it just looks like it works, but in fact not the really function we expected.

[Friction150]

Really interesting reply. Speak loud dos not mean you got the truth. I know that medic is not total useless in game, but what you can change (I mean all the modder can change) is only under the game developer programming frame. That sometimes really let the addon maker fell discouragement.

Just tell me what you thinking you can do with medic and the distance between what you can do with the irish1958's hope? Does there are any possibility to implement "unexpected accidents, illnesses, deaths, and disabilities"?

And if anyone know there are executeable script (I mean support if else for while) in sh3, please tell me where I can found it. I will check it. Simply said without a running able script or program language code. You can not program. Whether you thinking what you doing are how near the program.

If you want change the crew_config files, you don't need program skill, you just need take too much time to change it and see what happen. Although the program skill will help and let you know where is the limit, because the programmer can guess what other programmer (I mean game developer) thinking. I really see some addon maker have do something I said impossible in other game. But that's not the way I am thinking, it just looks like it works, but in fact not the really function we expected.

:nope:
Speak loud? I wasn't speaking loud, I wasn't speaking at all actually. I'm typing. I never said I knew the truth, in fact, in my last post, did I not say "I've written programs before, but I will fully admit that I don't know very much about SH3 programming."

Secondly, As I said, just about every aspect of this game has been changed before in one way or another. You were the one to announce that it couldn't be done, and if it could, it wasn't worth it. You are also the one that said this conversation is pointless. This might sound ignorant, but it's the truth: If you have nothing positive to say, why post? 99.99% of the guys on here that mod and try to mod do so as a hobby. None of them are getting paid for it. We're all here helping each other, or at the very least, offering support. So that's the choices: Help it, Support it, Or leave it alone.

Also, every game has scripting, even if it is small. This game has scripts as well. What controls what happens when torpedos hit? Or when a ship takes on to much water? Those figures are scripts in the sense that they control what goes on in a game. It's not the real world, so everything needs to be programmed to run correctly. Any program that doesn't have these figures is an empty shell, and will not function.

Sorry guys (modders and friends), people like this make me mad. They jump in an nail people for ideas and then they are the first people to b**** when nothing new comes out, or there is a problem with a mod...

[wdq4587]

Don't be mad. Don't say impossible is nothing. And don't say "every aspect of this game has been changed". There are many aspect I want to change that can not be change. I want the sea graphics in SH4. I want the measure distance method in SH4 (show 2 image at same time). I want can not hear the sound from another ship in sonar if there are land between my u-boat and that ship. I want I can control pump how much water. But I know there are no way to get these in SH3.

I just make a littel mod patch to against one program flaw on TDC auto update. If I can touch the game source code, I only need change about 10 to 30 lines. But the fact is I took much time to struggle with that flaw. And the solution is not perfect. Although I am glad to think it's acceptable and helpful.

And about script. Some game do have running able script (I mean in fact a program language like Lua). But these config files you called script are not really script. They are in fact data file. The program read these as parameters to decide what to do. So you can change do how much, or even not to do, but you can not let program do some new thing that not designed to do.

As I said above sometimes someone can let other people think they did it! But only 2 possibility: one is just look like, one is someone luck to found the programmer disabled part (mostly unfinished and with bugs). There are another possibility is that someone is a hacker, then he can really do that, he can change the program behavior. But I am not a hacker, you are not a hacker, 99.9% mod or addon maker are not a hacker. That's the fact, and welcome to real world.

[GlobalExplorer]

wdq4587 I understand what you have in mind actually, and I also take no liberties in telling people of their mod idea is just wishful thinking. But you obviously don't know enough about the SHIII framework. A lot of things can be made appear in the game by changing data files, especially save game files and they appear after reloading. All that's needed is an external program that makes these changes and hence the need for a programmer to step in. Mind that this concept requires certain procedures on the part of the user which I called fiendishly complex.

You are right that SHIII is data driven and no script exists as far as I know.

But no need to start an argument over this mates, all that irish1958 wanted was finding some support with his mod.

[Friction150]

Don't be mad. Don't say impossible is nothing. And don't say "every aspect of this game has been changed". There are many aspect I want to change that can not be change. I want the sea graphics in SH4. I want the measure distance method in SH4 (show 2 image at same time). I want can not hear the sound from another ship in sonar if there are land between my u-boat and that ship. I want I can control pump how much water. But I know there are no way to get these in SH3.

I just make a littel mod patch to against one program flaw on TDC auto update. If I can touch the game source code, I only need change about 10 to 30 lines. But the fact is I took much time to struggle with that flaw. And the solution is not perfect. Although I am glad to think it's acceptable and helpful.

And about script. Some game do have running able script (I mean in fact a program language like Lua). But these config files you called script are not really script. They are in fact data file. The program read these as parameters to decide what to do. So you can change do how much, or even not to do, but you can not let program do some new thing that not designed to do.

As I said above sometimes someone can let other people think they did it! But only 2 possibility: one is just look like, one is someone luck to found the programmer disabled part (mostly unfinished and with bugs). There are another possibility is that someone is a hacker, then he can really do that, he can change the program behavior. But I am not a hacker, you are not a hacker, 99.9% mod or addon maker are not a hacker. That's the fact, and welcome to real world.

WDQ4587: Seriously mate, you need to slow down, take a breathe and re-read my post. You have been misquoting me this entire conversation, twisting my words to try to use them against me. I really don't appreciate that. I did not say that every aspect of the game has been changed. I said "just about every aspect of this game has been changed before in one way or another." There's a difference there mate. I know there are things about the game that haven't been changed, but just about everything that anyone would want changed has been. The dat and cfg files aren't scripts, but act just like them to control the in game world. I still firmly believe that there are scripts in the game, even if they are hard coded. It would be hard to make a complex game without some sort of scripting to it.

And you're right, I'm not a hacker. That's not really needed for this game though, as it has the best support I've ever seen for a game from it's modding community. It appears that I am talking to a machine translator, because something is getting lost in translation here. :nope:

GlobalExplorer: I know that mate, and I wasn't trying to have an argument here. I always try to lend a hand where needed, I just needed to clear up this mess. I'll leave this thread alone unless something else needs to be said.

[Madox58]

Any Mod suggestion is worth looking into.
If you don't want to contribute to it's advancement?
Stay out of the thread.

Some of the craziest suggestions, over time have been productive.
This mod suggestion warrents serious thought and discussion.

And I RESENT the 'Hacker' statements!!
I will look into any file in anyway I deem needed to come to
a positive outcome.

And if you truely understand even half the files involved?
You don't need to 'Hack'.

And if you are indeed a 'programmer'?
Stop talking smack and prove it.

GlobalExplorer is the only one here I see that can back up his claims.

Now,
Crap or get off the pot!!

[wdq4587]

I will not talk more. I guess I take frustrae felling from other game modding to here. The fact is all game developer will not hear you, (I know not all, I mean almost all), even they can fix the bug by changing only one line. (for example some bugs in GWX manual). If your guys don't fell limitation. That's good. continue...

My mother language is not English. So I think I really "misquoting" some posts. I apologize for that. But I don't back my word about most irish1958's hope can not be implement by just modding.

Then about "hacker", I may using a wrong word. May be should called cracker. But any way I not mean the man who only changes the data files. So I am not mean any of you. I only mean the man who change the program code, mostly by disassemble.

BTW, I can not "prove" something can not be done. Only you can prove that can be done.

-----------------------

Just after post I find that I may misquoting "Stop talking smack and prove it" again. May be you want me prove I am a programmer. I can tell you I am here is because I am only a moder of this game not this game programmer (That's why I am angery to these programmers). I have no interesting to prove I am a programmer. And if I am "the" game programmer I will not be here just like all others I am angery with.

[Friction150]

I will not talk more. I guess I take frustrae felling from other game modding to here. The fact is all game developer will not hear you, (I know not all, I mean almost all), even they can fix the bug by changing only one line. (for example some bugs in GWX manual). If your guys don't fell limitation. That's good. continue...

My mother language is not English. So I think I really "misquoting" some posts. I apologize for that. But I don't back my word about most irish1958's hope can not be implement by just modding.

Then about "hacker", I may using a wrong word. May be should called cracker. But any way I not mean the man who only changes the data files. So I am not mean any of you. I only mean the man who change the program code, mostly by disassemble.

BTW, I can not "prove" something can not be done. Only you can prove that can be done.

Apology accepted mate. This is the hardest working group of modders that I've ever been a part of, and nothing is deemed impossible until all possibilities are exhausted. So when someone talks about an idea, almost everyone will lend help or ideas, and I'd say at least 90% of the time the community gets a mod out of it. :up:

Anyway, I've been looking into this during my breaks from skinning today, I'll let anyone know if I come up with anything useful.

[Madox58]

I think you missed the key statement.
You proclaim it can not be done unless hacked or cracked.
Again, you offend me with those terms.
:nope:
You admit you have nothing to offer this thread.
Aside from negative, uninformed opinion.
Spend sometime studing the files Mate.

Then PM me and show me something I don't know!
I spend at lest 5 hours a day studing the files!

I talk from what I know are fact!!
No presumtions!
FACTS!!

[irish1958]

Thanks, Privateer for your support.
I did not mean to start an argument or flame war. I suspect the negative comments are really language and translation problems and not hostility. I have given up trying to express myself in other languages because I can't express my thoughts in any way resembling what I am thinking, and might even give offense because of my misunderstanding of the idiom.
I admire those who can do it.
I am a physician and while playing the game for enjoyment on a long patrol lasting a couple of months, I was struck on how unrealistic it was concerning health and injury, and what an useless idiot the medic was. If real life were like this, I would have to make my living somehow else and medicine would be my hobby.
So I started playing around with the files and contacted some people about this project. I was told when the files were changed, the game reverted them to normal when the game loaded at the start of a patrol. So I thought that is OK since you wouldn't start a patrol with half your crew throwing up, or with three of your officers disabled.
So I messed around with the saved game files and the menu files and found out I could have all sorts of disasters, accidents, illnesses and mishaps happen when the saved game loaded. I also found that the medic had a real function, not implemented in the game. And if he were not on board the patrol would be impossible to complete successfully.

These added uncertainties and complexities would make the game more enjoyable for me. Not knowing anything about programming, I thought it might be simple to write a program to write to these two files when the saved game loaded. I had no idea it would be so difficult, and I apologize to those skillful in this art.

I suggest we lock this thread and move on.

[Friction150]

Thanks, Privateer for your support.
I did not mean to start an argument or flame war. I suspect the negative comments are really language and translation problems and not hostility. I have given up trying to express myself in other languages because I can't express my thoughts in any way resembling what I am thinking, and might even give offense because of my misunderstanding of the idiom.
I admire those who can do it.
I am a physician and while playing the game for enjoyment on a long patrol lasting a couple of months, I was struck on how unrealistic it was concerning health and injury, and what an useless idiot the medic was. If real life were like this, I would have to make my living somehow else and medicine would be my hobby.
So I started playing around with the files and contacted some people about this project. I was told when the files were changed, the game reverted them to normal when the game loaded at the start of a patrol. So I thought that is OK since you wouldn't start a patrol with half your crew throwing up, or with three of your officers disabled.
So I messed around with the saved game files and the menu files and found out I could have all sorts of disasters, accidents, illnesses and mishaps happen when the saved game loaded. I also found that the medic had a real function, not implemented in the game. And if he were not on board the patrol would be impossible to complete successfully.

These added uncertainties and complexities would make the game more enjoyable for me. Not knowing anything about programming, I thought it might be simple to write a program to write to these two files when the saved game loaded. I had no idea it would be so difficult, and I apologize to those skillful in this art.

I suggest we lock this thread and move on.

I vote not to lock it. Irish, you had a good idea mate, let's see where it goes. :D There's no need to get discouraged just because WDQ said it couldn't be done. Privateer is an expert with those files, and I'm sure he's been looking through them to see what is possible.

[Commander Gizmo]

I think this idea sounds interesting, and I have been iching for a new small scale programming project. I offer to do what I can.

I am curious, has no one attempted trainer activity on SH3? One could change the data in game, while it is running if we new the memory addresses for the crew health, no? That would be even more interesting, though far, far more complicated.

Also, I thought that the crew could get injured, but not damaged when hit by machine guns. I seems like I have had crew injured and then healed on patrol before. They got the wounded badge for their trouble.

I keep thinking I've done some of the things folks say arn't possible in game. I sure hope my imagination is not taking over my virtual uboat world.

[Graf Paper]

U-boat Exhaust Smoke

Water Streams Mod

Lifeboats and Debris

There's three mods for you that were once considered impossible or too complex to attempt.

Nothing is impossible with modifying this game. The only limits are how much time and effort you're willing to expend to create a mod. :yep:

All legal questions aside while making an academic point, even a complex program like SH3 has a finite amount of data and code that can be studied and altered in a finite amount of time.

If you're dedicated (or crazy) enough to learn the skills and tools required, then your will and imagination are all you will need to create any type of mod. :know:

So I encourage any of you that wish to mod this game to jump in and try whatever you can think of! :up:

I look forward to giving my medic something better to do than Hygiene Inspection!

Now get to work, irish1958! :stare:


;)

[Wreford-Brown]

Just a shot in the dark - could SH3 Commander be used and add it as part of the sabotage/malfunctions function?
Maybe if JScones makes one of his infrequent visits he can advise us.

[JScones]

Just a shot in the dark - could SH3 Commander be used and add it as part of the sabotage/malfunctions function?
Maybe if JScones makes one of his infrequent visits he can advise us.
Irish raised this with me many months ago.

Despite what people like wdg4587 will have you believe, what Irish wants to achieve is deceptively simple to do...but not via SH3Cmdr's sabotage/malfunctions feature.

A simple interface driven by a data file containing Irish's formulae is all that would be needed. The downside is the requirement to save and exit SH3 mid-patrol, which is one of the main reasons why I declined to pursue inclusion in SH3Cmdr: IMHO I can't see many players saving and exiting SH3 just to benefit from this feature. Although, if Irish found a satisfactory alternative to indicate a problem that utilised one of the save files rather than *_menu.txt, at least SH3 would not need to be exited, just the career.

IIRC Irish has already prepared most/all the rules, so at the most basic level all it needs is someone with time (ie not me) and programming 101 skills to build a simple interface that through user interaction finds the right files, generates a few random numbers, performs a few calculations based on the generated numbers and Irish's rules, and writes the results to the right files.

It could be run manually before SH3Cmdr is run, or if renamed to "SH3Weather.exe", it could be run by SH3Cmdr *instead* of SH3Weather.

Ultimately, it's just down to whether anyone thinks the return is worth the investment...

[irish1958]

JScones
Thanks for your input.
The ideal way to run this would be via SH3CMDR as noted above.
I think most people who play the game will save and exit many times during a patrol, at least I do. In real time, most of my patrols last several hours, and are played over several days or weeks. Saving the game, if the changes are made by a program run by SH3CMDR, would not result in any changes to the saved game files until they are loaded. So saving a game during a patrol does not activate the mod, and therefore the changes will not be cumulative.
I don't think the problem with activating the mod only via loading a new saved game is a problem, as these problems really should load only occasionally, since these illnesses and injuries should only occur infrequently as in real life. When they do occur, they should be at random and present a problem to the Captain with which he must deal.
The required files can be generated in a random fashion in such a way that many times nothing is loaded with a saved game.
Finally, the generated file structure is simple enough so that any player can generate scenarios to occur in the game, and share them with the community as their own mod.

[asanovic7]

Yesterday on schedule was a football match and in the end it was cancelled due to influenza spread amongst the players of one team(although I think they are lying, asw...s are just tired)..

Were there any occurences in the war like this one? Whole team out? :doh:

CHeers!

[Wreford-Brown]

Which war?

The Royal Marines had an embarrassing incident a couple of years ago in Iraq when they had 600 soldiers bedded down with D&V. That's an entire Battalion non-combat effective. They had to deploy a special medical team from the UK to find out what was going on.

If it can happen in the 2000s then I wouldn't be surprised if it happened to less than 50 men in the enclosed environment of a U-boat during the 1940s.

[irish1958]

Yesterday on schedule was a football match and in the end it was cancelled due to influenza spread amongst the players of one team(although I think they are lying, asw...s are just tired)..

Were there any occurences in the war like this one? Whole team out? :doh:

CHeers!

You have no idea what importance health and fatigue play in war. There is a vast medical literature on this problem.

Typhus alone killed more soldiers in Napoleon's armies than all opponents in all battles combined.

German SS troops consumed vast quantities of amphetamines (speed) as did American fighter pilots and probably a lot more solders and sailors we don't know about.

Influenza killed more solders (and civilians) in 1918-1919 than the war did.

Malaria alone disabled more Americans in WWII than the Japanese did.

Hans Zensser's "Rats, Lice and History" in a marvelous book which shows some of the problems.

[Graf Paper]

I'm greatly looking forward to your progress on this idea, irish! :up:

When you are able to implement events such as illness, injury, and more realistic fatigue, it will add another dimension to the realism and gameplay that helps make life aboard a u-boat more than shuffling crew from duty stations to their bunks.

By more realistic fatigue I mean not just being tired physically, as it is currently modeled in the game, but also mentally from the stresses of u-boat combat. Imagine the scene in Das Boot where the engineer, Johann, cracked under the strain of the u-boat being depth-charged. Perhaps even crew member deaths from the captain being forced to shoot them to keep the crew safe from raving maniacs..again that scene where the captain rushed to his bunk to grab his revolver in case he needed it to prevent Johann from trying to open the hatch.

Or imagine using fatigue to reflect the crew's overall health. Instances like..."Food supplies have spoiled, your crew's efficiency is reduced due to malnutrition." or "An outbreak of lice infests the u-boat, making everyone itchy and irritable."

Too bad the original SH3 devs did not set it up where you could place your medic in one of the Damage Control slots to treat injured crew in the compartments that were being repaired.

Many possibilites here that would greatly justify using renown and training for that medical specialty for one of your officers!

Please don't give up on this mod! :sunny:

[asanovic7]

to see this idea was not based on an offshot basis (wtf that means?)..

Just wanted to say in my own way, that idea is great.. It would boost the realism, it would then feel like you have to care about the crew.. One great thing would be to improve selection(when you have the choice, ofcourse) of the crew in the port, like their medical reports, how many times he sailed out etc. To feel you have to nurse your crew..
But you would have to implement it in a way that it doesn't become the main concern for the player in the game.
Like, I play besides this game oblivion, I downloaded the diseases mod, now I play the game in a way I am only looking for cures.. :rotfl:Which ok has to be when you are bitten by a large rat, but it's a bit annoying.. Still looking for the crap and piss mod..

Nevermind this diggression..

Lowered efficiency of the men as a group or individually(how to achieve that?), lowered fatigue or morale etc.. But one thing I have to say, it would be silly if in getting out of the harbor I realize half my crew is crapping the pants.. It would have to be seldom, random, on the sea, right?

But main thing would be to see the mod surface.. :up:

Cheers!

[Parkera]

And...it stopped there? The possibility were great and has anyone implemented this anywhere or something close??

[YellowFin]

I'm currently involved with some SH4 fixes, but I'd be ready to look into this as well (as a programmer). We should


Identify how crew health can be affected in game (which files, etc)
Do we have to use saves as triggers or can we use independent triggers
start with some simple mechanics: accidents, injuries (from attacks), illness


SH3 Commander looks like a great starting point. Does anyone know whether we can (-> are allowed to) inspect and modify SH3 commander?

I don't think the realism can be questioned. Some subs had to return to base because the captain fell ill and the crew did dive training off helgoland with the I.O. until he recovered.

Sometimes I feel we should start from scratch, write a completely new, open source sub simulator. It would overcome so many difficulties posed by the closed source. There is free terrain data, including oceans available for a realistic fine grained world map. I am already looking into this, but it looks like a huge project.

[Kendras]

There is free terrain data, including oceans available for a realistic fine grained world map. I am already looking into this, but it looks like a huge project.

And what about a 3D world, with realistic sea surface areas and real coordinates, and real celestial objects movements ? :o

[YellowFin]

And what about a 3D world, with realistic sea surface areas and real coordinates, and real celestial objects movements ? :o

NASA combined forces with several other organizations and scanned the earth with satellites and ships and they offer (for free) bathymetric data with 30 arcsecond (~1 km at the equator) resolution of the whole world. So the oceans would be covered, and even correct elevations, say the atlas mountains in Morocco could be correctly incorporated.

I think modelling a night sky is not very difficult. You take a star map with the visible objects (or 90% of those) and model a movement over time (to model continuous, seasonal and YoY change). Those movements can be described by (somewhat complicated) functions, it should be easy to model. A 1916's night sky is different from a 1940's night sky.

I will open a new thread about this.

[YellowFin]

Take a look at this thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=232829) where I brainstorm on a Naval Simulator from Scratch that would cover all aspects discussed in the previous two posts (and more).

[gap]

NASA combined forces with several other organizations and scanned the earth with satellites and ships and they offer (for free) bathymetric data with 30 arcsecond (~1 km at the equator) resolution of the whole world.

Hi Yellowfin, in the past I had read about bathymetric data offered by NASA. All I could find from them is this page (https://visibleearth.nasa.gov/view.php?id=73963). Bathymetric maps you can download from there have a max resolution of 10800x10800 sq. pixels, each covering an area of 90 deg of latitude x 90 degrees of longitude, i.e. 120 pixels per degree or, as you put it, 1 pixel per 30 arcseconds.
Unfortunately, that's exactly the resolution of SHIII's height maps, so data shared by NASA doesn't add much to what we already have in stock game.

EDIT: talking about vertical resolution, NASA bathymetric maps are greyscale images. A gray value/depth scale is not provided, but it is likely that white pixels on them are equal to a depth of 0 m, while the black colour should represent the deepest point on Earth (i.e. the Mariana Trench = ca. 10,994m u.s.l.). There are 256 shades of gray in a grayscale image. Assuming that tones of gray are equally spaced on those maps, each tone would cover a bathymetric range of ca. 43m (10,994/256).
Talking about a WWII sub simulation, such a depth resoltution would be way too much for the deepest points (which we would never visit), and not enough for the shallowest waters around land masses. A few days ago, Kendras has posted a depth scale (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2502726&postcount=365) as used in SHIII. If you look at it, you will notice that -as it is logical- map colors denoting shallow waters cover a much narrower depth range than the ones used for deep waters.