Georgia Crisis

[nikimcbee]

With all of the action going on around Georgia, therre are some new possibilities for new DW scenarios.:hmm:

Could a Nuke boat sneak into the Black Sea?

[Dr.Sid]

Looked with Googl Earth.

Could it get there ? I think yes. It seems quite big ships sail there, water seems to be deep enough.

But sneak undetected ? Impossible. The pass is 1 km wide (there are even 2 bridges over it). 1 frigate would block it, possibly even without active sonar.

And if you somehow get in there is no guarantee you would get out too.

As for scenario, IIRC (don't have it installed at the moment) the terrain is not detailed enough and the pass does not exist in DW.

[Molon Labe]

I've been thinking about some sort of "hold at risk" scenario. I wanted it to be all about the Moskva, but apparently she's been damaged and has pulled out of the combat zone?

Exocets are a bitch, aren't they? (assuming it was an exocet anyways)

[GrayOwl]

I've been thinking about some sort of "hold at risk" scenario. I wanted it to be all about the Moskva, but apparently she's been damaged and has pulled out of the combat zone?

Exocets are a bitch, aren't they? (assuming it was an exocet anyways)

:p

"Moskva" CG has survived in Black Sea (Near Georgian territorial waters).
Sunk the Georgian missile ship "Tbilisi" name.
( Renamed Ukrainian ship "Konotop" PTG such as).
Russian PTG has victim this Georgian ship.
A "Moskva" CG in conflict with Georgia not use weapon.

[Frame57]

I heard that Seawolf 2 was there, but then again who knows for sure. I think the creepy crawly device she had would have mader the best candidate for getting there.

[Dr.Sid]

For intelligence in peace time .. when nobody guards the door .. why not. Would be great mission anyway.

[Molon Labe]

I've been thinking about some sort of "hold at risk" scenario. I wanted it to be all about the Moskva, but apparently she's been damaged and has pulled out of the combat zone?

Exocets are a bitch, aren't they? (assuming it was an exocet anyways)
:p

"Moskva" CG has survived in Black Sea (Near Georgian territorial waters).
Sunk the Georgian missile ship "Tbilisi" name.
( Renamed Ukrainian ship "Konotop" PTG such as).
Russian PTG has victim this Georgian ship.
A "Moskva" CG in conflict with Georgia not use weapon.
The only think they got the Tblisi. The reality is that the Tblisi was destroyed by sabatuers in port. Which means they probably destroyed the better missile boat but mistook it for the Tblisi (hence why I'm guesing Moskva was hit by an Exocet).

http://regionalreporters.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/113.jpg

[Molon Labe]

I've been trying to make a mission that's something like a standoff between elements of the black sea fleet and an FFG escorting relief ships into Poti. The problem so far is that the Russian ships start shooting USET-80s all over the place and sink the escorted ship easily. Keeping them out of torpedo range also keeps them out of gun range, which ruins the point. And I can't substitute at least one of the major culprits.

One solution might be allowing the FFG to be formation leader, but I'm not sure how to create the standoff situation without having scripted waypoints... I might try playing with the Track function....

Edit: The track function isn't helping.

[SeaQueen]

With all of the action going on around Georgia, therre are some new possibilities for new DW scenarios.:hmm:

I agree. It's interesting too, because you could put a lot of very challenging threats against US forces in a contemporary setting.

Regarding transiting Bosporus; it can't be done. That's part of why in the Cold War days, Turkey was considered an important strategic allie. If you could station forces there to defend the Bosporus, you could keep the Soviet Black Sea fleet bottled up and we could have free reign in the Med. In fact, it was expected that early in the war, the Soviets would make a big push there specifically to prevent that from happening.

[Molon Labe]

[shameless plug]Oh, Just thought I'd mention, Rough Riders is based on a hypothetical war between Russia and Georgia over S. Ossetia that the US gets dragged into. Well, actually, one that the US sort of instigated in the same sense that Georgia sort of instigated the one we have now. But the point is, there is one out there![/shameless plug]

[SandyCaesar]

...in the same sense that Georgia sort of instigated the one we have now...

I don't disagree with that, but things like that are a bit risky to post. I still remember when that poor bastard got keelhauled after the little flame-war a few weeks back. Some of the folks around here seem to be sensitive to things like that.

And yes, I've tried Rough Riders, and I've gotten my arse handed to me in a paper bag. Against the CPU. Several times.

I need more practice.

[Molon Labe]

...in the same sense that Georgia sort of instigated the one we have now...
I don't disagree with that, but things like that are a bit risky to post. I still remember when that poor bastard got keelhauled after the little flame-war a few weeks back. Some of the folks around here seem to be sensitive to things like that.

He didn't get keelhauled for expressing an opinion, he got keelhauled for vicious, personal attacks against other posters. Neal and the admin staff have established pretty clear lines, and he stepped way over it. It's a pretty well known fact that Georgia was warned about S. Ossetia but they did it anyways; which in my and many others' opinions gave the Russians the excuse they'd been waiting for. It was a stupid move and I'm not afraid to say so, especially in the context of how the DW hypothetical scenario differs from real world events.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

I've been thinking about some sort of "hold at risk" scenario. I wanted it to be all about the Moskva, but apparently she's been damaged and has pulled out of the combat zone?

Exocets are a bitch, aren't they? (assuming it was an exocet anyways)
Well, the guys who say it is an SSM attack hypothesize b/w 4-8 missiles. In which case, kudos should go to Moskva's BCh-2 (Rocket/Artillery Department). Despite the fact they were clearly surprised, they shot down / diverted anywhere from 3-7 SSM and reduced the last one to a graze (AK-630 shot?)

For all the boasts and sims, when it comes to actual combat, a lone large ship (running through the list of escorts suggests their AAW weaponry would be of no help) successfully defending against 4+ SSMs (if you reduce the damage to a small fire, that's called a success considering the alternative, no?) ... it is probably the first. Sheffield, Stark ... etc.

Not bad for a Navy supposedly rusting at port.

It is also funny how all the translators of that sailor's testimony so far seem to show a complete misunderstanding of Russian terminology. Or maybe the Russians need to come up with a better term for "Damage Control".

Despite the sailor explicitly stating the damage to the Moskva was "small", the translations acted like the ship was about to sink: "fearing for seaworthiness" and the like abound, and headlines rumble about "heavily damaged (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2061604/posts?page=124)". And all because of these words: борясь за живучесть. It literally translates to struggle for vitality, but what it really means is damage control - nothing to get excited about...

[oscar19681]

Latest news is a dutch jernoulist was killed while performing his job

[Dr.Sid]

This war is really confusing. Even journalist who are there in person often give contradicting information. Involved leaders are expected to give confusing information. All together I don't understand how anyone can have clear opinion about the war.
My general idea is that separatists should be allowed to separate. But there is many 'buts' about it and many may apply in this case. Really confusing, I'm not surprised that many states did not take firm attitude in this case. And those who did were often forced to change it second day.
As long as they don't shoot it's fine. I hope they can 'divorce' in peace as we did with Slovakia.

[Molon Labe]

It is also funny how all the translators of that sailor's testimony so far seem to show a complete misunderstanding of Russian terminology. Or maybe the Russians need to come up with a better term for "Damage Control".

Despite the sailor explicitly stating the damage to the Moskva was "small", the translations acted like the ship was about to sink: "fearing for seaworthiness" and the like abound, and headlines rumble about "heavily damaged (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2061604/posts?page=124)". And all because of these words: борясь за живучесть. It literally translates to struggle for vitality, but what it really means is damage control - nothing to get excited about...

Thanks, that's very helpful.

[To be]

This was the setting for suBBs missions if I remember correctly. Molon, can you back be up on that?

[Molon Labe]

This was the setting for suBBs missions if I remember correctly. Molon, can you back be up on that?

It was in the Black Sea, but I haven't been able to recall (or locate a post on) the nature of the underlying conflict. Also as far as I know he only released the first two of three parts.

[GrayOwl]

This war is really confusing. Even journalist who are there in person often give contradicting information. Involved leaders are expected to give confusing information. All together I don't understand how anyone can have clear opinion about the war.
My general idea is that separatists should be allowed to separate. But there is many 'buts' about it and many may apply in this case. Really confusing, I'm not surprised that many states did not take firm attitude in this case. And those who did were often forced to change it second day.
As long as they don't shoot it's fine. I hope they can 'divorce' in peace as we did with Slovakia.


Georgia intends to receive TERRITORY South Ossetia.
Let even it will be territory without the population - Ossetian's of the population.
Which besides are the citizens of Russia.

To the Georgians is not necessary ossetian the people, the territory is necessary only to them.

[Molon Labe]

This war is really confusing. Even journalist who are there in person often give contradicting information. Involved leaders are expected to give confusing information. All together I don't understand how anyone can have clear opinion about the war.
My general idea is that separatists should be allowed to separate. But there is many 'buts' about it and many may apply in this case. Really confusing, I'm not surprised that many states did not take firm attitude in this case. And those who did were often forced to change it second day.
As long as they don't shoot it's fine. I hope they can 'divorce' in peace as we did with Slovakia.

It's a bit late a peaceful separation, don't you think?

It's a dead issue anyways. Russia has both rebel provinces in their possession. The Russian government has stated Georgia can "give up any hope of their territorial integrity" being intact, signalling that they do not intend to give them back. The Russians continued to send in reinforcements after the ceasefire was signed, so they are prepared to back up their words. All the talk in the world isn't going to budge the tanks in Shkinvali--and no one is going to risk starting a major war by getting rid of them by force. Abkhazia and S.Ossetia are part of Russia now.

[irregular]

It is in fact close to impossible to sneak a sub into the black sea, although it can be done. The waterway into the black sea (The Bosporus) is an extremely narrow channel and kind of shallow for a sub to get through. Any ship has to get permission way in advance to get through. And going underwater at periscope depth I think is the deepest you can go, you must stay behind a rather large ship in order to keep your wake trail out of vision. Not only this, but you gotta have the latest charts and information available to avoid wrecks, rocks, etc to get through successfully, not to mention a pro commander :).

All of this was outlined in a great book about Naval Warfare and politics I read, its called Nimitz Class. (Its about a Russian Kilo that sneaked through the Bosporus and sunk most of a US carrier battle group with a nuclear torpedo.) Very cool book I thought.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

All of this was outlined in a great book about Naval Warfare and politics I read, its called Nimitz Class. (Its about a Russian Kilo that sneaked through the Bosporus and sunk most of a US carrier battle group with a nuclear torpedo.) Very cool book I thought.

Aah, Nimitz-class, the only book that Robinson ever wrote that doesn't manage to make you root for the bad guys...

[irregular]

Ha, the only one I read. Any others of his good?

[SandyCaesar]

Well...the only I've read was Ghost Force. Honestly, I wasn't very impressed; regardless of plot reasons, Type 45s should not lose to Skyhawk fighters. I felt that his writing style just wasn't up to the standard set by Tom Clancy or Fred Forsyth.

But that's just my opinion; I understand that Robinson's a popular author around these parts.

[orco]

Just because you are talking about russina forces and about a DW mission in the black sea....and molon labe had a look to google earth.... I just have a look to the Polyarnyy, "the red october base", and I could distinguish some surface ships and 5 subs docked there, but I can't tell the type of none. Maybe you also want to have a look to it.