Guidance on using them fancy torps

[VonDorkGruber]

I'm sitting in a hotel room wishing my crappy company laptop had the cajones to play SH3 and instead perusing the forum looking for tips/howto's on using the more advanced torps. I'm at late 41 in a VIIB, maybe 15-20 patrols, in career mode (mostly real - manual targeting, no map contacts, etc.) w/GWX 2.0. Since I cannot play the game, I'm trying to learn about the torp options I'm gonna have, assuming I survive. I've not found the stock game guide terribly useful for some things, and so am respectfully asking the seasoned kapitans for their two cents.

Since I'm stuck here for a while, I'm basically looking for info/thoughts/opinions on the various pattern running/homing fish before I actually might be able to acquire them. Like, how do i use them (setting patterns, good tactics, etc.), how much they cost and do you really lose the unused (and expensive so i gather) after each mission & have to purchase them again? I've looked thru the forums but have not yet found a good concise explanation/howto on these.

I do love this game

TIA

VdG

[GoldenRivet]

personally - and others might disagree here... but i find pattern running torpedoes to be virtually useless unless you are firing from fairly close range.

pattern runners are meant to run a ladder or other pattern in the event that you miss. problem i have seen is that unless you are at the perfect range, they end up running their pattern before they get to the target, or long after they have passed the target. IMHO you are lucky to hit water with a pattern running torpedo.

the homing torpedoes are clearly the better way to go if you are talking "fancy"

but im the old guard who likes to stick with T1 steamers all the way to the bitter end... and i rarely equip with electric torpedoes.

but... that said, it is probably best to set pattern runners to impact and less than 4 meters running depth... reason being - if you miss your intended target a) you dont know what it is goign to hit and b) if you find yourself in your own torpedoes cross hairs it shouldnt hit you if you are submerged and it is set to shallow depth... evading it should be failry easy.

homing torpedoes are another issue.

set them too deep and they wont hit anything.

i generally use homing torpedos with magnetic pistols at 4 meters depth for escorts, OR ill set the running depth to the keel value of the intended target plus one or two meters.

the homing torpedoes can easily get caught up in "chasing" a target, because of this it can hit the prop and bounce off or dud. therfore with the deeper settings and magnetic pistol it is possible to miss the prop.

[VonDorkGruber]

Thx for the reply. Now, for a few follow-up's...

1a) Do you have any control over when the pattern kicks in, or does it start at a hardcoded range?

1b) Do you have any control over the ladder pattern it runs (ie left-to-right, depth of ladder steps, etc)? If so, are there are any rules-of-thumb on deciding an effective pattern?

2) I'm figuring the homer's lock on to the loudest contact right out of the tube, or shortly thereafter. That sound about right?

3) Do you have to repurchase them for every patrol, even if unused? I gather from some of the posts that some of them can be kinda pricey...

4) Are there any other flavors besides pattern running & homers?

VdG

[Randomizer]

For what it's worth I have had a fair bit of success using FATs. I find the key is to launch so that the pattern activates inside the convoy, usually at a range just greater than the second observed column of merchants and at about a 30-60 degree angle into the oncoming ships with the direction of the pattern in the same direction as the convoy course. I fire them in pairs about 8-seconds apart, both at the same data, set to 3 metres and magnetic pistols. The double shot increases the size of the footprint and shooting cross-wise and with the convoy increases the amount of time that the torpedoes are running inside the target rich area.

Once you determine the range to the near side and course of the convoy, you can use the navigation map to build a picture and calculate firing angles, direction of pattern and range to pattern start. Provided the convoy doesn't zig zag you can fire safely without exposing the scope for a final shooting observation. Remember, your target is the entire formation so your approach does not have to be too precise and the TDC map will give you a graphic picture of the torpedoes predicted track. Once you fire, go deep and listen.

Using these techniques I can frequently get a hit and pick up the cripple after the convoy moves off. In late 1944 and early 45 a slashing attack with FATs provides the best prospect of engaging a convoy and getting out alive. I keep the acoustics for opportunity defensive shots on escorts.

Once near Rockall I was very lucky and got hits on two different merchants with 2 FATs and both hit from the disengaged side. The escorts all took off in the wrong direction and I managed to sneak in and double shot a tanker for another 9000 tons. Only managed to pick up one of the cripples though and then got sunk Boxing Day '44 just after entering the fjiord to Trondheim. But the FATs worked fine.

Good Hunting

[GoldenRivet]

Thx for the reply. Now, for a few follow-up's...

1a) Do you have any control over when the pattern kicks in, or does it start at a hardcoded range?

1b) Do you have any control over the ladder pattern it runs (ie left-to-right, depth of ladder steps, etc)? If so, are there are any rules-of-thumb on deciding an effective pattern?

2) I'm figuring the homer's lock on to the loudest contact right out of the tube, or shortly thereafter. That sound about right?

3) Do you have to repurchase them for every patrol, even if unused? I gather from some of the posts that some of them can be kinda pricey...

4) Are there any other flavors besides pattern running & homers?

VdG
1a. I think the pattern kicks in basedo on time to target and range to target. for example, if your estimated time of impact is 1 minute 15 seconds... and the torpedo passes that time, the pattern starts. if i remember correctly thats how it works/

1b. The pattern it runs depends on if your AOB is to port ot starboard so that the torpedo will always make its first turn toward the targets direction of movement... for example if you observe the target moving left to right across the screen... the torpedo first turn will be to the right. as far as setting the depth, the torpedo will maintain whatever depth you select right out of the tube... this depth will not vary as the torpedo travels or turns. as far as im aware... the torpedoes are only capable of a ladder pattern, so again, you cannot select the pattern it will run.

2. homing torpedoes must travelapproximately 400 meters once they leave the tube before the passive homing device kicks in even though - if i remember correctly the warhead arms at 300 meters. the torpedo will home in on the loudest sound it can isolate... this is usually a warship like an escort. though the torpedo will leave the tube and turn to a heading to make a straight line intercept for the target, it will go active at 400 meters and start doing small "S-Turns" as it seeks its sound source. very rarely does it actually hit the target you were intending on hitting... but they almost always hit something. and usually that something is an escort. for this reason, i usually reserve these homing torpedos for use against agressive escorts which are hunting me. just remember to account for the 400 meter running distance before it goes "active"

3. yes, i think so.

4. you have the following flavors of torpedoes available

T1 - 1939 standard straight running torpedo. fast, good range, powerful but the visible wake makes it quite detectable to the target.


TII G7e - 1939 straight running electric torpedo. slow moving, medium range, no wake.

TIII G7e - 1942, inertially guided by gyros. slow moving, medium range no wake improved magnetic pistol system and more reliable that the TII

TI Fat I - 1942, ladder pattern running torpedo, long range, recommended for use against convoys for increased chances of scoring a hit.

TIII G7e FatII available in 1943, - Electric ladder pattern torpedo. variant of the standard TIII

TIV Falke - available in 1943 the worlds first acoustically guided torpedo will seek the sound of the loudest sound source. electrically driven

TV-Zaunkonig - available in 1943 improved Falke basically.

i highly recommend you see pages 117, 118, 119 and 120 of the GWX manual.

[VonDorkGruber]

Thx for the info! I will check out those pages once back in my home port.

[Dietrich]

1b) Do you have any control over the ladder pattern it runs (ie left-to-right, depth of ladder steps, etc)? If so, are there are any rules-of-thumb on deciding an effective pattern?

You might find this article (http://www.nordfront.org/xvii-downloads/ta08_using_fat.pdf) useful. Basically, it covers the FaT, but similar principles can be applied to the LuT.

In the late war, I find these torpedoes invaluable. Personally, I prefer the T-I LuT-I, as it gives me complete control and 12 km of range. Although I don't attack from that far away, it does mean I can put the torpedo on a wide-ladder pattern, and know that it will continue criss-crossing back and forth through the convoy.

[superfecta]

The first thing to remember about FAT's, is the closer the better. The FAT's have the same distance limits as straight running torps. So if fired from far away there may not be much "juice" or "steam" to complete the pattern. Your most programable option will be the "length of straight run" or how far it goes before it starts its pattern. So try to compute this distance to your primary target and if you miss then it will start its pattern search. As far as the pattern itself rather than try to explain; just pick a tube with a FAT click the FAT button (attack map with lock toggle unlocked), and play around with the "left / right pattern", "leg", "initial run length" and you should get a good idea of what it will or won't do and how you might use that to set up an attack.
As far as "homers" I find them most useful against unsuspecting escorts that are constantly changing course near their convoys. And WATCH YOUR speed when using, it may say that target needs to be going 9 or 12 knots or whatever but i've seen them turn towards my sub before!

[STEED]

Best to fire the fats one after the other about 15 seconds apart and manually by slightly changing there angles and select a nice bunch of contacts, fire them and move in. Some times you get a hit or damage one but you scare the crap out of them and the convoy goes nuts which buys you a bit of time as the destroyers have to pick there way though the panicking merchants.

When I get my hands on the T4/5's I pick off the destroyers first as they have a nasty habit homing on the loudest sound. I fired four at a passenger ship and all was going well until they picked up on the sound of a bloody small merchant and slammed into that instead.

But as we all know we have our own ways and methods. :lol:

[VonDorkGruber]

Thanks to all who responded. The various points of view were helpful!

VdG