First sub sim, help please.

[darkcurrent]

Hi, I've been lurking around here trying to get better at SH4 and I've learned how to use the dick O'kane maneuvers and manual TDC based on the (great) videos by rockin robbins and the likes, but I don't really get how to attack convoys...


For example, the dick O'kane maneuver is really great for attacking one or two merchant ships, but what strategies would I use to attack the other merchant ships in the convoy?

From my newbie point of view, it seems like the dick o'kane maneuver is more like ambushing other ships, allowing you plenty of time to get the AOB, range, speed, etc... but once you sink a convoy ship, the other merchants goes crazy and zig zag all over the place... I'm not sure how to manually do TDC since the range, speed and AOB is constantly changing.

Any advice on what strategies to use for attacking convoys and how to do manual TDC when the ships are zig zagging?

Thanks

[FIREWALL]

Welcome Aboard darkcurrent :D

I'll let the better SH4 members give you advice.

Nows your time to quit lurkin and get involved with SubSim. :D

[Orion2012]

Hi, I've been lurking around here trying to get better at SH4 and I've learned how to use the dick O'kane maneuvers and manual TDC based on the (great) videos by rockin robbins and the likes, but I don't really get how to attack convoys...


For example, the dick O'kane maneuver is really great for attacking one or two merchant ships, but what strategies would I use to attack the other merchant ships in the convoy?

From my newbie point of view, it seems like the dick o'kane maneuver is more like ambushing other ships, allowing you plenty of time to get the AOB, range, speed, etc... but once you sink a convoy ship, the other merchants goes crazy and zig zag all over the place... I'm not sure how to manually do TDC since the range, speed and AOB is constantly changing.

Any advice on what strategies to use for attacking convoys and how to do manual TDC when the ships are zig zagging?

Thanks

When it comes to convoy's I normally try and let the lead DD past me while, I'm coming in with one of the outer lines of merchies at about a 45 degree angle on bow, come to periscope (I approach below the thermal layer to get past the lead DD) get my range and speed, then begin approaching the 90 degree AOB like the o'kane method. As far as engaging zip-zag targets, it's a guessing/instincts kind of thing, but in the truth of things, a target dosen't normally zig-zag unless you've been spotted or heard and at that point your at a huge tactical disadvantage and might be better off finding new prey.

Also, if your new to SH4 and play with any mods, or even a stock game, aircraft may seem like bothersome flies in need of swatting down, but they can and WILL sink you or destroy you. Nothing more frustrating then being on the way back from a 75000 ton patrol to have your tanks punctured by a bothersome (in my case british, as I'm playing OM) aircraft.

Good Hunting :ping:

[Mush Martin]

at the moment Rockin Robbins, Urge and myself are trying to work up
a torpedo spreads workshop, in looking over the preliminaries this weekend
its going to take us some time to churn out some product that can be
used by others.

so for now might I suggest.

try a variation of dick okane.

put your crosshairs ahead of the target ship let go of the scope.

as the target ship goes by the cross hairs to the point of the target
wherby you would normally start firing.
start the stopwatch and dont move the crosshairs.
when the next ship in line gets to the point where the target image
is such that you would make your first firing shot on it.
stop the stop watch.
take the number of seconds displayed.

set your first three torps for the depth on target one
and your second three torps on the depth for target two.

set up on ship one for dick okane again this time ready to fire.

fire your first three and as you press fire button for #3 delay firing
4,5 & 6
until you have counted off the same number of seconds as
the stopwatch showed on the trial run.

You may now touch the scope and feel free to move about the
cabin, if youve got em smoke.
M

[edit] and welcome to subsim.

[darkcurrent]

When it comes to convoy's I normally try and let the lead DD past me while, I'm coming in with one of the outer lines of merchies at about a 45 degree angle on bow, come to periscope (I approach below the thermal layer to get past the lead DD) get my range and speed, then begin approaching the 90 degree AOB like the o'kane method. As far as engaging zip-zag targets, it's a guessing/instincts kind of thing, but in the truth of things, a target dosen't normally zig-zag unless you've been spotted or heard and at that point your at a huge tactical disadvantage and might be better off finding new prey.

Also, if your new to SH4 and play with any mods, or even a stock game, aircraft may seem like bothersome flies in need of swatting down, but they can and WILL sink you or destroy you. Nothing more frustrating then being on the way back from a 75000 ton patrol to have your tanks punctured by a bothersome (in my case british, as I'm playing OM) aircraft.

Good Hunting :ping:
I think I was doing something along the same lines. I was doing a war patrol and had to patrol in japan seas during the year 1944 and after getting to the sea, my crew visually picked up a convoy and I plotted where they were going to be, went below thermal after aligning a 90 degree angle and waited. When the time came, I went to periscope depth and picked the largest merchant ship (large modern tanker) and sanked it using the dick o'kane method. After that happened the other tankers beside it just all (in unison) began moving left and right.... I remained at periscope depth and no destroyers came to my location... just the damn tankers zig zagging...

I guess there are other prey, but do you know if they will stop zig zagging soon enough? or do they keep doing that? cause I was thinking maybe I should follow them either under thermal for awhile and maybe go back to PD after they've stopped zig zagging.

Implicitly, you're saying that it is possible to torpedo one of the merchant ships in the convoy without the other merchant ships performing evasive maneuvers, right? Cause if there are, I may just abandon the convoy I'm stalking now for other convoys.

At first I tried to engage the planes, but got bombed, so now I just hide under water every time one of my men sees a plane... works but annoying as hell.

thanks

PS: sorry for spelling mistakes, I'm using my brother's MX5000 keyboard and It's so different and harder to press the keys...

[darkcurrent]

at the moment Rockin Robbins, Urge and myself are trying to work up
a torpedo spreads workshop, in looking over the preliminaries this weekend
its going to take us some time to churn out some product that can be
used by others.

so for now might I suggest.

try a variation of dick okane.

put your crosshairs ahead of the target ship let go of the scope.

as the target ship goes by the cross hairs to the point of the target
wherby you would normally start firing.
start the stopwatch and dont move the crosshairs.
when the next ship in line gets to the point where the target image
is such that you would make your first firing shot on it.
stop the stop watch.
take the number of seconds displayed.

set your first three torps for the depth on target one
and your second three torps on the depth for target two.

set up on ship one for dick okane again this time ready to fire.

fire your first three and as you press fire button for #3 delay firing
4,5 & 6
until you have counted off the same number of seconds as
the stopwatch showed on the trial run.

You may now touch the scope and feel free to move about the
cabin, if youve got em smoke.
M

[edit] and welcome to subsim.

Thanks! great advice!

[SteamWake]

If I recall correctly...

The crazy zig zagging was patched in at some point because in the game as released the convoy would come to a halt making it a turkey shoot.

Guess thats better than nothing.

I cant add anything to the others tactics its solid advice.

In the meantime... welcome.

[Mush Martin]

a well aimed spread is a fine way to defeat a zig zagging target.

the target still follows a base course
and varies its helm a set number of degrees
off of the base course on either side with
a regular cadence to switch in game.

suppose the targets true speed is roughly twelve knots
and hes zigzagging twenty two and half degrees either
side of his base course.

if he was making twelve in a striaght line course
now he is making 8 or 9 kts along the base course
with slightly but constantly varying range and aob.

mark the course line

time the amount of time between two crossings.

aim for the next cross point figure out your runtime
set a spread to reduce the errors

fire at the appropriate moment.

the theory works but as with all things theres
a lot to figure on and a lot to go wrong.
but thats more or less how its done.
M

[Orion2012]

a well aimed spread is a fine way to defeat a zig zagging target.

the target still follows a base course
and varies its helm a set number of degrees
off of the base course on either side with
a regular cadence to switch in game.

suppose the targets true speed is roughly twelve knots
and hes zigzagging twenty two and half degrees either
side of his base course.

if he was making twelve in a striaght line course
now he is making 8 or 9 kts along the base course
with slightly but constantly varying range and aob.

mark the course line

time the amount of time between two crossings.

aim for the next cross point figure out your runtime
set a spread to reduce the errors

fire at the appropriate moment.

the theory works but as with all things theres
a lot to figure on and a lot to go wrong.
but thats more or less how its done.
M
Thats sound advice when it comes to a zig-zag target. I personally think its much easier to engaging a zig-zagging target with a uboat because they have a true salvo switch and you can set a spread angel, but with a uboat you also may have homing torpedos which are very effective against merchants. But were talking fleet boats, and the above tactic is very sound.

And when engaging a convoy, you can get more then one target. Fire at the most distant target first and continuing firing at them in the order of there distance (I.E. 3000yrds, 2500,2000) with a few seconds in between. The idea being that all the torpedoes impact at around the same time, limiting there ability to zig-zag. I've even had them so close that the first fish hits on target 2 before the second or third torpedoes hit on the initial target.

[Mush Martin]

You can do it with a fleet boat too. :hmm:?

all a salvo switch does is time the shot and hold
the angle, in effect a pk and a good sense of timing
are the same thing.

I dont have troubles shooting multiple targets in either
ocean, but when it comes to shooting more intricate
salvo forms I skip the salvo button usually anyway
in my type IXB.

the only limitation in anysubmarine french italian american japanese
british turkish or german is the understanding of the captain.

its a weapons system, a platform for the delivery of torpedo attacks.
and well used even a wwI boat with short slow straight runners and
no TDC is still a dangerous fish.

[darkcurrent]

You can do it with a fleet boat too. :hmm:?

all a salvo switch does is time the shot and hold
the angle, in effect a pk and a good sense of timing
are the same thing.

I dont have troubles shooting multiple targets in either
ocean, but when it comes to shooting more intricate
salvo forms I skip the salvo button usually anyway
in my type IXB.

the only limitation in anysubmarine french italian american japanese
british turkish or german is the understanding of the captain.

its a weapons system, a platform for the delivery of torpedo attacks.
and well used even a wwI boat with short slow straight runners and
no TDC is still a dangerous fish.

Can you guys explain what a salvo is? I read the tutorials and they keep mention this term...

I tried to look it up on wiki and all I get is:

"The term is commonly used to describe the firing of broadsides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadside) by warships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warships), especially battleships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battleships). During fleet engagements in the days of sail, from 17th century until the 19th century, ships of the line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ships_of_the_line) were maneuvered with the objective of bringing the greatest possible number of cannon to bear on the enemy and to discharge them in a salvo, causing enough damage and confusion as to allow time for the cannon to be swabbed out and reloaded"

is this correct? if so, can you guys explain more clearly? I don't get what it's saying since the definition uses the word salvo itself.


PS: can anyone tell me what the gramophone does? Do you just listen to music on it?

Thanks for the quick help guys!!

[Mush Martin]

in simplest terms a salvo is a round of firing some most or all of
your available guns torpedos or missiles.

in the sense of shiv torpedos obviously

for my own part I define a salvo of any shot consisting
of more than two torpedos at a single target
or any single firing sequence that involves more than one target.

M

[Mush Martin]

I was re reading the OP.

a couple of other points

alternative method

fire as normal on the furthest target with slow torps
and fire as normal on the closest target with fast torps.


....


your spreads have to anticipate the enemy response
this will only come with practice.

M

[edit] Gramaphone = Radio shows music news depends what you put in
many use the radio instead but I prefer the gramaphone it is a little more
straightforward for a dinosaur to use.

excuse me a minute boys I'm watching Tom Dodge take the stingray out of
harbour with new paint. ooooh holly...

[Sailor Steve]

I tried to look it up on wiki and all I get is:

"The term is commonly used to describe the firing of broadsides by warships, especially battleships. During fleet engagements in the days of sail, from 17th century until the 19th century, ships of the line were maneuvered with the objective of bringing the greatest possible number of cannon to bear on the enemy and to discharge them in a salvo, causing enough damage and confusion as to allow time for the cannon to be swabbed out and reloaded"

is this correct? if so, can you guys explain more clearly? I don't get what it's saying since the definition uses the word salvo itself.!
The way they worded that is very misleading. Dictionaries define Salvo as the simultaneous discharge of weapons, firearms, bombs, artillery etc. A salvo can be a full broadside or just a couple. It was standard practice in battleships to fire one gun of each turret, so in a ship with three triple turrets like Iowa or Yamato, which could fire roughly twice per minute, instead of two nine-gun broadsides they could fire six three-gun salvoes, meaning less hits if the grouping was on target but three times as many chances to actually be on target in the first place.

As Mush stated, a salvo of torpedoes simply means firing more than one at the same target. SH3, and I assume the SH4 U-boat Add-on, has a selector switch that fires all the designated torpedoes at the same time, which would have been a sure-fire recipe for torpedoes hitting each other and affecting each other's magnetic exploders. What the switch did was tell the torpedo crew which tubes to fire. They still fired several seconds apart.

The gramaphone is just a fancy old word for a record player. If you're young enough to still not get it, think of it as an old-fashioned CD-player.:sunny:

[Orion2012]

You can do it with a fleet boat too. :hmm:?

all a salvo switch does is time the shot and hold
the angle, in effect a pk and a good sense of timing
are the same thing.

I dont have troubles shooting multiple targets in either
ocean, but when it comes to shooting more intricate
salvo forms I skip the salvo button usually anyway
in my type IXB.

the only limitation in anysubmarine french italian american japanese
british turkish or german is the understanding of the captain.

its a weapons system, a platform for the delivery of torpedo attacks.
and well used even a wwI boat with short slow straight runners and
no TDC is still a dangerous fish.

Yes, you can. I'm just more accustomed to the german salvo. When it comes to the american subs, I prefer to fire at the same bearing as the ship passes, yet somehow I feel that I'm more effective with the german salvo.

And I also agree for an intricate salvo, manually firing them is more effective, I personally like shooting a couple of mark14's at full speed, then a couple mark23?? (the american g7e electric knock-offs) about 3-5 degrees both fore and aft of the DD. It's a wierd tactic, but I seem to find good luck with it, as long as i remember to set the detonator to magnetic because if they do find home, the AOB is so sharp they just deflect off. It's a wierd tactic but I have had moderate success with. Nothing funnier then watching a DD turn hard to port just to be suprised by the one's he didnt see

[raymond6751]

I think having the scope up for such a long time is a mistake. In real life the scope was up and down quickly to make bearing and distance sightings.

Once the solution was done, I think the firing after the first one should be done blind.

I don't think, however, that SH4 lets you do that. If you are playing realism, you get an error message that there isn't a solution for T2 and T3.

I'm not sure if the AI get more chance to detect you the longer the scope is up. It should be so, for realism.

Anybody know more about this ?

[Mush Martin]

The gramaphone is just a fancy old word for a record player. If you're young enough to still not get it, think of it as an old-fashioned CD-player.

As we speak steve is putting Gracie Fields 78's on his victrola.:rotfl:

[Sailor Steve]

The gramaphone is just a fancy old word for a record player. If you're young enough to still not get it, think of it as an old-fashioned CD-player.

As we speak steve is putting Gracie Fields 78's on his victrola.:rotfl:
What? Victrola? I don't go for new-fangled gimcracks! I still got my Edison wire-recorder!