the attack periscope's sound when it's turning?

[Sag75]

Hi to all, watching the movie Das Boot, we can hear a weak e-motor like sound when the attack periscope is turned on the left or on the right by the captain.

So, is it possible to add in SH3 a/that sound when the attack periscope is turning?

thanks,
s

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Yes

[Cheapskate]

How? :D

[Sag75]

Hi Thomsen, is it really possible? should be nice hear that sound when we're working at periscope!

[Hitman]

In the NYGM mod you can hear a "click" each degree of periscope turn, and there is already a noise for raising the periscope. So it should be possible :hmm:

[Contact]

Interesting idea, but even if it's possible to make a sound of it, it would have to change it's pitch which depends on how fast the periscope is turning ? :hmm:

[Cheapskate]

Well, it is certainly possible to produce this type of sound. SH3 abounds with examples: the raising and retracting of the periscope is just one example.

Good sound samples aren't too hard to find on the net (and sometimes, elsewhere in the game). With a decent sound editor and a little practice, it isn't too difficult to make up something suitable.

The problem is how to associate the sound with an in-game event or key-press. I have seen some ways by which SH3 initiates and controls some existing sounds. But how can a new sound (say a modified periscope up/down) be incorporated?

Edit:

Good point, Contact, pitch change is modifiable with a sound editor. Presumably you would need two sound files. But again how to incorporate them in game? I can't even find the controller for the scope! Mind you I haven't looked too hard - still having lots of fun with S3D on the graphics side of things!

I'm also wondering how the scopes were powered. Were they both electrically driven in the horizontal plane?

[Myxale]

Maybe by attaching the sounds to the cursor-keys.
I use the keys to move the scope since they move slower than the mouse, -and we know that we can already attach sounds to keys!:hmm:

[Sag75]

Hi, i saw into several SH3's files and i wasn't able to see any linkage between sounds and events. So i don't know in which file this association occurs, but must be somewhere: for example when you rise/low the scope there is a sound associated to this action.

About the recording, we can bring the same sound that we can hear in the movie (of course, if is not so disturbed from talking, but in Thomsen's sound mod we can hear the DD propellers recorded by him directly from DasBoot movie!).


the research goes ahead...

[Cheapskate]

Maybe by attaching the sounds to the cursor-keys.
I use the keys to move the scope since they move slower than the mouse, -and we know that we can already attach sounds to keys!:hmm:

You may well be right there, Myxale.

PT did use a similar method on his "Ctrl+S" trigger for the diesel start sequence. However it was linking to an existing set of sound files. It's true the sounds had changed , but they were still in name, standard SH3 sound files. I am just a bit concerned that a completely new sound would not work in this way.

However, I'm only a novice at stuff like this. Hadn't really given the subject any thought before this thread started. Maybe there would be no problem.

Suppose there's only one way of finding out ( unless PT deigns to give us the benefit of his considerable experience :rotfl: ) - that's by giving it a try!!

Edit

@Sag75

There are a few places where you can find sound link files. F'rinstance the Submarine, Interior and Objects directories all contain DSD files. These refer to various sound effect WAV files. Couldn't immediately see anything to do with periscope though. The Library directory may also contain them.

The Cursor key links are in the data/Cfg/Commands_eng.cfg file. Plenty of places to look and that's probably only half of them.!!!

Good Luck with your search :lol:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Can't be linked to keys, coz everytime you press it (in periscope view or not) you'll hear the sound.

Have to be linked to the movments of turning the scope (horizontally and vertically).

The pitch part might be the awkward part... the own game has a pitch controler, but I'm not 100% that will fit in this case. There's no need for two sounds, just one sound will do. The pitch controler itself will simulate the start/stop of the electric motor from the scope.

Might look into the snorkel aswell... ;)

If gets to work, might be incorporated into SH4.

I'll take a look on it on the weekend. If I manage to pull it off, will be on the next release of the sound pack.

I'm still looking for some german speakers to help me making new voices to replace the old ones. I need 9 candidates!

[Cheapskate]

Phew!! Am I glad to see you PT. :sunny: Was afraid you weren't going to show!!!!.

Encouraging to note that you only see the changing between fast and slow revolutions as a difficulty.

I wonder how many players actually use both rotation speeds and even if they do, whether they would mind having a single speed sound. I certainly wouldn't.
As long as the sound started and stopped when the scope movement did, that would surely be sufficient.

Note you are still looking for volunteers for the rework of the German speech files. Some months ago I'm sure I saw a thread somewhere on Subsim where a number of people had volunteered for a similar project. I'll see what I can dig up.

[Sag75]

hi, I normally use the three kind of rotations. I think if you can link a sound to arrow keys when you rotate your periscope, you can also associate a different sound when you hit Ctrl+arrows or Shift+arrows.

The discrimination is how the association occours: the sound can be linked to the rotation itself or to the kind of key couple with?

[Sailor Steve]

About the recording, we can bring the same sound that we can hear in the movie (of course, if is not so disturbed from talking, but in Thomsen's sound mod we can hear the DD propellers recorded by him directly from DasBoot movie!).
The 5-hour 'Uncut' version of the movie has a scene in which the captain, being very bored, is sitting in the seat staring at the overhead and rotating back and forth, back and forth. Plenty of sound there with no talking or any other noise.

As for different pitches, how fast did the electric motor rotate the scope? Did it have more than one speed? Is the speed governed by the arrow keys accurate, or was it slower.

More to the point, the observation scope was operated by hand from a standing position and had no motor. If you give the sound to one, will it also appear in the other? I won't argue against creating the sound, because no one has to use it. I'm just asking what the end result will be, as I'd love to have it both ways, selfish blighter that I am.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

About the recording, we can bring the same sound that we can hear in the movie (of course, if is not so disturbed from talking, but in Thomsen's sound mod we can hear the DD propellers recorded by him directly from DasBoot movie!). The 5-hour 'Uncut' version of the movie has a scene in which the captain, being very bored, is sitting in the seat staring at the overhead and rotating back and forth, back and forth. Plenty of sound there with no talking or any other noise.

Wrong. The captain is rumbling a song "hmmm mmmm mmmm mmmm" which is very very hard to eliminate using a software. But there's other places in the movie where I can extract the motor sound, that is not an issue.

As for different pitches, how fast did the electric motor rotate the scope? Did it have more than one speed? Is the speed governed by the arrow keys accurate, or was it slower.

That is the key here: We need to find out how fast did the scope was able to turn, and if it had different speeds. People using the mouse to turn it very fast won't be able to enjoy any realism in sound, if we do this. So I don't think we should link the sound to the mouse rotating the scope. On the other hand, I'm not sure if it's possible to link only to the keyboard. As I said, I'll take a look on it on the weekend.

More to the point, the observation scope was operated by hand from a standing position and had no motor. If you give the sound to one, will it also appear in the other? I won't argue against creating the sound, because no one has to use it. I'm just asking what the end result will be, as I'd love to have it both ways, selfish blighter that I am.

Probably it's possible to separate the sound from being used in both periscopes, to only being used in the attack periscope. But if we don't, that's no much of an issue. After all, people hardly use the observation periscope. (at least I don't).

hi, I normally use the three kind of rotations. I think if you can link a sound to arrow keys when you rotate your periscope, you can also associate a different sound when you hit Ctrl+arrows or Shift+arrows.

The discrimination is how the association occours: the sound can be linked to the rotation itself or to the kind of key couple with?
I think it can be linked to both. But who knows, maybe to none. I'll see it on the weekend.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

I think I saw this in an old post, the sound in NYGM and in SH4 (fleet boats only) is just the sound of the TDC bearing dial which is linked to the scope movement. You could replace it with a motor sound, but if you move manually the dial it will have a motor noise. And maybe the same for every TDC dials if the sound cannot be separated.
But then there may be another way.

Interesting... :hmm:

Thanks for sharing! :up:

[Hitman]

how fast did the electric motor rotate the scope? Did it have more than one speed? Is the speed governed by the arrow keys accurate, or was it slower

I can't give exact figures, but there were two speeds, normal and slow.

There were also two turning methods, electric and by hand. Well the electric one is actually hydraulic, i.e. an electric pump builds pressure on an oil circuit and then the pedals controlled by the observer's feet determine the admission of oil to the circuit. Thus it is reasonable to believe that the harder the pedal pressing, the faster the scope turning speed.

More to the point, the observation scope was operated by hand from a standing position and had no motor. If you give the sound to one, will it also appear in the other? I won't argue against creating the sound, because no one has to use it. I'm just asking what the end result will be, as I'd love to have it both ways, selfish blighter that I am.

Again very good point Steve :up:

The observation scope was entirely manual in the rotation, controlled by the handles manned by the observer. There should be no noise there, except when raising or lowering.

[Cheapskate]

Just to clarify/confuse matters, was just reading the USN report on the evaluation of U570 after capture by the RN and came across the following:-

The periscope was operated by the observers . It operated smoothly and noiselessly by hydraulic power and manual control. Fine control of training speed is possible under both power or manual operation.

It seems that if there was any sound it would not very pronounced.

[Sailor Steve]

Wrong. The captain is rumbling a song "hmmm mmmm mmmm mmmm" which is very very hard to eliminate using a software. But there's other places in the movie where I can extract the motor sound, that is not an issue.
Sorry. I haven't been able to watch it for a couple of years. Good that you can get it somewhere else.

Probably it's possible to separate the sound from being used in both periscopes, to only being used in the attack periscope. But if we don't, that's no much of an issue. After all, people hardly use the observation periscope. (at least I don't).
That would be nice. I never click the 'F' keys; I always click on the hatch and climb to the conning tower to use the attack periscope, so I tend to use the observation scope for anything but a dedicated attack, just like in real life.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Just to clarify/confuse matters, was just reading the USN report on the evaluation of U570 after capture by the RN and came across the following:-

The periscope was operated by the observers . It operated smoothly and noiselessly by hydraulic power and manual control. Fine control of training speed is possible under both power or manual operation.

It seems that if there was any sound it would not very pronounced.

If it's a deadly silence, then you can hardly hear and motor engine.

But after reading all this and watching some movies, I've come to this conclusion:

Bot periscopes could be operated by hand, without any help for an electric motor, and maybe both periscopes or just the attack periscope could be operated with the help of an electric motor. The purpose of the electric motor could be to help giving a 360º lookout, sitting on the little chair and letting it do the rest. The scopes didn't seem to be very heavy to be turned by hand.

Conclusion... I don't think we need a sound for it.

[Sag75]

"..It operated smoothly and noiselessly by hydraulic power and manual control.."

So , the noise in the movie is not so much accurate historically??

[Cheapskate]

Just to clarify/confuse matters, was just reading the USN report on the evaluation of U570 after capture by the RN and came across the following:-

The periscope was operated by the observers . It operated smoothly and noiselessly by hydraulic power and manual control. Fine control of training speed is possible under both power or manual operation.

It seems that if there was any sound it would not very pronounced.

If it's a deadly silence, then you can hardly hear and motor engine.

But after reading all this and watching some movies, I've come to this conclusion:

Bot periscopes could be operated by hand, without any help for an electric motor, and maybe both periscopes or just the attack periscope could be operated with the help of an electric motor. The purpose of the electric motor could be to help giving a 360º lookout, sitting on the little chair and letting it do the rest. The scopes didn't seem to be very heavy to be turned by hand.

Conclusion... I don't think we need a sound for it.

That's pretty much the same conclusion as I was coming to. Makes one wonder if the usual periscope noises aren't a bit too "over the top" Going to keep them though - but may quieten 'em down a bit.

For anyone needing a horizontal peri movement sound there is always NYGM's clock tick. However ambient noise levels in a U-Boat could be pretty high....remember those BBC sound recordings?? ( Wouldn't mind betting they were from U 570), so I think a gauge movement would have been inaudible. Besides I seem to remember some NYGM users thought the sound was irritating and wanted to remove it.

Oh well, that's that then! You can have the rest of the weekend off :rotfl:


Edit

@ Sag75

It seems likely that the DAS BOOT sounds were not realstic but like many things to do with U Boats, it's difficult to be sure. Soundwise there doesn't seem to be much available - the BBC recordings seem to be the only readily obtainable sounds that aren't film related. Unfortunately they don't include any peri noises.