Clearing the TDC

[Fearless]

Howdy, I seem to have a prob with TDC (non-manual setting)

I lock the target press the position keeper than fire the torp. 1st time no probs but the next time when I target another ship, the torps just make a sharp turn and no luck in hitting the target.

What is the procedure for clearing the settings in TDC before targetting a new ship.

[Mush Martin]

Switch off the PK update Ship ID speed course and range for the second target and restart PK good to go (assuming you got good data)

[Fearless]

Switch off the PK update Ship ID speed course and range for the second target and restart PK good to go (assuming you got good data)

Well, I've tried every possible combination. I have auto TDC and no matter what I try, the torpedoes make a sharp left turn. I've turned off the PK, re ID'd the target than restarted the PK.

The torps just won't track the ship I've targetted. So the TDC for some reason is St***ed. It is pointless re-targetting if it doesn't work.:down:

[Mush Martin]

Im tellin ya your missing refreshing the ship ID at the start of the
second ship.

[Fearless]

Ok, I'll play the devil's advocate here. I've never had any problems with auto TDC before except for now. My understanding was that with auto TDC, you turn off the PK, line up the scope with the new target with the scope or uzo, lock it, turn on PK to update new target details in the TDC than fire. Correct!!. If not than how do you refresh the ID when in auto mode seeing that was meant to happen automatically in auto mode.

[Rockin Robbins]

Fearless, you don't need to clear the TDC. You don't have to turn the PK off and on either. These are urban legends. The TDC works like a spreadsheet. When you enter a new piece of info into the TDC it merely replaces the old one.

So it is merely necessary to replace each item there. What's in that contraption?

1. The identity of the target, found from your ID Manual after selecting the correct ship there. This sets up the stadimeter to give you the right range.

2. The speed of the target. Find by the method of your choice and input.

3. Target AoB or course. Enter that next

4. Target range and bearing. These are entered at the same time when you use the stadimeter. If you have the PK off, turn it on right after you enter range/bearing. Always enter range/bearing last.

As long as you replace all four pieces of information, entering range/bearing last, no resetting is necessary of TDC or PK. You will hit your target.:up:

[Fearless]

Fearless, you don't need to clear the TDC. You don't have to turn the PK off and on either. These are urban legends. The TDC works like a spreadsheet. When you enter a new piece of info into the TDC it merely replaces the old one.

So it is merely necessary to replace each item there. What's in that contraption?

1. The identity of the target, found from your ID Manual after selecting the correct ship there. This sets up the stadimeter to give you the right range.

2. The speed of the target. Find by the method of your choice and input.

3. Target AoB or course. Enter that next

4. Target range and bearing. These are entered at the same time when you use the stadimeter. If you have the PK off, turn it on right after you enter range/bearing. Always enter range/bearing last.

As long as you replace all four pieces of information, entering range/bearing last, no resetting is necessary of TDC or PK. You will hit your target.:up:

Thank you for that clarification RR but I'm not using the manual method. How does one reset in Auto mode?

[Monica Lewinsky]

Don't you click on the red circle "thingy" in the bottom right corner of the TDC panel and verify it is white or grey after moving the mouse about 1/4" and then lock on a new target with the "L" key?

I have NEVER had a problem focusing on a new target, line up the torps, and fire on the new target.

What's the problem with you?

FYI:

I do not play auto SH4 with girlie auto-targeting feature for whimps who have no nads. I play using manual targeting, so I might be "out to lunch" offering help for those that think auto targeting is "fun". Line up your balls before you shoot is my advice [like in a game of pool].

Got a Set of Great balls while using manual targeting ?, then you got a Great shot.

Put the s.o.b. on the bottom.

[Mush Martin]

I think so ML I cant remember now RDP would know:doh:

[Rockin Robbins]

It doesn't hurt anything to do that aside from the time wasted doing an unnecessary procedure that doesn't accomplish anything. You could also go to the head and brush your teeth with as much effect on targeting accuracy.

All that's necessary is the four steps in my above post. Anything else is ceremonial claptrap. You can do it if it makes you feel good but it won't help put the bugger on the bottom.

Nobody mentioned opening the torpedo tubes yet! You can do everything right but if you don't open the torpedo tubes at least 20 seconds or so before you fire, the torpedo will delay firing until they are open. This will cause you to miss astern and curse mightily.:hulk:

[Monica Lewinsky]

All that's necessary is the four steps in my above post. Anything else is ceremonial claptrap.

Maybe repost, because we are LAZY. :D

just kidding ya... I understand your point. Just look at it from another angle. Some people are lazy. :)

After the sighting the FIRST thing I do is set the depth of the eels with some sort of visual of what the target is.

Then I open all TORP tubes whether [forward and aft] I think I will use them or not. What is the harm in doing that?

Then I wait and ambush the s.o.b.

[Rockin Robbins]

I always open 'em just before I'm ready to shoot and after I set the depth because I don't want to forget. I also don't know how long they stay open on their own. But it's just my routine and I don't think it matters at all. Anybody know the answer to that one?

But as long as they're open when you shoot it doesn't matter to the best of my knowledge. The real boats didn't like their torps wet any longer than necessary, so they tended to open the doors after all solutions were satisfactory and just before they shot. I doubt that matters here.

[ddiplock]

Don't you click on the red circle "thingy" in the bottom right corner of the TDC panel and verify it is white or grey after moving the mouse about 1/4" and then lock on a new target with the "L" key?

I have NEVER had a problem focusing on a new target, line up the torps, and fire on the new target.

What's the problem with you?


That's interesting, because i've had problems hitting more than one target. I use manual shooting like yourself. I encountered a 2 ship convoy, I input all the target data and ID'd both ships. Fired at the lead ship, then locked my scope onto the 2nd ship and fired, but the final torpedo still went for the first ship that i'd fired at previously and hit, despite my scope being locked onto the new ship :doh:

[aanker]

maerean_m (and others) described it pretty good here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=118706

There was another old thread with pictures I thought I saw a while ago too; but I can't find it.

Art

[Fearless]

FYI:

I do not play auto SH4 with girlie auto-targeting feature for whimps who have no nads. I play using manual targeting, so I might be "out to lunch" offering help for those that think auto targeting is "fun". Line up your balls before you shoot is my advice [like in a game of pool].

Got a Set of Great balls while using manual targeting ?, then you got a Great shot.

Put the s.o.b. on the bottom.

What a man!!!:roll:

[Fearless]

Eventually I may get the answer I want re Auto TDC but do I press the PK button a few times to make sure the data is cleared before targetting the next ship and that the RM is also not ticked?

[Rockin Robbins]

Sometimes I wonder.....

Pressing the PK button clears nothing. It is a meaningless gesture which is as useful as..... well, it isn't useful. In order to target another ship you MUST replace the four data items, one by one, with range/bearing last, into the TDC. You may do anything else you wish, including meditation, but it will not contribute to hitting your target. Please go to the end of WernerSobe's Advanced TDC/PK Video Tutorial Thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=897224&postcount=167). Watch the six movies and have the CORRECT information proved and demostrated.

Early attempts at tutorials were done before WernerSobe determined the sometimes surprising facts about what is necessary and what is not in manual targeting. Some of the procedures in the original stuff was just superstition, like throwing salt over your left shoulder for good luck. (or is it right?)

At any rate, after watching the six videos you will have a complete understanding of how the process works in several variations. You will no longer have any questions, nor will you be victim to bad advice again.

You have given me a great idea to do a tutorial movie where I demonstrate each of these erroneous procedures and show what they actually accomplish. For instance, turning the PK off clears nothing. Often if I find that my course and speed inputs are good enough but my aiming point is ahead of the actual target, I will turn off the PK for a few seconds (letting my target catch up) and turn it back on when the target gets to the aiming point. Since pressing the button clears nothing at all, the aiming point then resumes with but now on top of the target and I'm ready to shoot.

[banjo]

I started reading thru all the above but gave up. The answer maybe there but here it is again. If you are using autotargeting you do not need the PK. I never use it, never select it. Just point and shoot. Be aware, with some mods, for some reason, your first shot will hit a little behind your aiming point so allow for that. Your others will hit where you cross hairs are when you shoot.

[Q3ark]

Eventually I may get the answer I want re Auto TDC but do I press the PK button a few times to make sure the data is cleared before targetting the next ship and that the RM is also not ticked?

?? you are not using manual targeting? So then it's all done for you, all you have to do is leave the scope crosshairs on the target and shoot. Do you even need to engage the PK when using auto targeting? I have never used it so can't help you there. Manual targeting is so much more satisfying when you slam three torpedos into the side of an oil tanker :arrgh!:

edit.

Ah Banjo you beat me to it, will have to learn to type faster :|\\

[Mush Martin]

I started reading thru all the above but gave up. The answer maybe there but here it is again. If you are using autotargeting you do not need the PK. I never use it, never select it. Just point and shoot. Be aware, with some mods, for some reason, your first shot will hit a little behind your aiming point so allow for that. Your others will hit where you cross hairs are when you shoot.
Upon reflection the above is correct never use the PK and
each torp is independently aimed use the pk and the torps track
a set target together(ish)

M

[Rockin Robbins]

Hey, I'm going to have to play with autotargeting to see exactly how it works. It's been a year since I did that! I'll bet nobody has ever done a tutorial on autotargeting. Hmmmmmmm...:hmm: Sounds like fun.

[Seminole]

:hmm: As long as I have been reading threads on Subsim ...this one I think deserves an award... just for what I can't say...:nope:





:huh:

[Rockin Robbins]

It's called brain damage. For some obscure reason involving a defective brain I didn't catch on that he was using auto targeting. But he gave me a great idea for a new tutorial video, because auto targeters never get any attention with how-tos.

I know just about all the wrinkles in manual targeting but I'm not an expert on automatic targeting. I'll just have to brush up on what works and what doesn't. That means that I not only have to explain what does work, but what doesn't and why, with demonstration. Should be fun.

It stands to reason that what I posted before: turning PK on and off doesn't reset anything should work out the same way for manual targeting. But that's just logic, which fails the reality test about half the time.

These are computers we're working on, not submarines. It is entirely possible that the same button behaves in two completely different and wacky ways depending on whether manual targeting is on or off.

[Captain Vlad]

Never had that problem with auto-targetting unless I forgot to 'lock on' to the ship before I fired or if I had been locked on, then lost the lock and fired.

What kind of weather conditions has this been occuring in? Is it dark enough that you lose your lock/visual every few seconds?

[Fearless]

Never had that problem with auto-targetting unless I forgot to 'lock on' to the ship before I fired or if I had been locked on, then lost the lock and fired.

What kind of weather conditions has this been occuring in? Is it dark enough that you lose your lock/visual every few seconds?

Perfect conditions. All that the torpedos do after they've been fired is do a sharp turn to the left irrespective what I do with locking and the supposed resetting of the TDC.

[Captain Vlad]

Okay, this is just a wild-ass guess, but try this: Lock onto the target with the 'L' button. Do not hit a single button on the TDC...PK, dials, anything.

I think what's happening is you're somehow overriding the data the auto-target sends to the TDC when you turn on the PK after a lock.

[Zero Niner]

Fearless
I can't explain the strange behaviour of your torpedoes, but like you I use auto targeting. Trying to figure out all the parameters needed for a manual solution is just too much hassle, I'm not as "hard core" as some others. Let me give you my understanding of how it all works and my experience with SH4.

The only time I really use the PK is when I'm manoeuvering submerged to get into position. What it does is that it gives me a real time "update" on the target's course, bearing and position relative to me via the attack map. However the information remains valid only if the ship does not change course or speed, so every once in a while I pop my scope up, find the target, turn off then turn on the PK again to refresh the data and update the firing solution.

The only situation when the PK has screwed up my firing solution is when I forget to turn it off before firing. You may know this already, but if the PK is left on then all the data the TDC needs to generate the firing solution is taken from the PK. Your scope could be pointing to a different ship or even 180 deg around but it makes no difference. If the target has not altered course or speed then there shouldn't be any problems, but there are times, like firing on a second ship, when I find my torps are headed for the 1st target and then I realise that the PK is still on :oops:.

Now, if the PK is turned off, the TDC gets its information from wherever your scope is pointed and continously updates the firing solution. That's how I spread my shots along the length of the ship. If the target is locked, then all shots will be aimed at the centre where the triangle is. In other words locking the target forces the scope to be locked in position relative to the centre of the ship, hence all firing soultions generated will be for shots hitting the centre of the ship.

Hope this is of some help. :)

[Zero Niner]

:hmm:
Something in Capt Vlad's post made me think of something. At the risk of sounding condescending, you did turn on the PK *after* locking the ship, right?

Let me explain - before you lock, the TDC info is set according to wherever your scope is pointing. Once you lock, the TDC has one final set of info taken from the ship you were looking at the moment you locked, which it continuously updates, and when you turn on the PK (which is really a predictor, really), the PK uses that info from the TDC to continue to update the firing solution even though your scope is now looking somewhere else.

[Zero Niner]

:hmm: :hmm:
The torpedo swinging off to the left suggests to me that the TDC is not capturing data correctly. If I bring up the attack map without a target designated, the line that show's the torp's current track is also off to the left (or was it to the right?) by almost 90 deg.

[Fearless]

:hmm:
Something in Capt Vlad's post made me think of something. At the risk of sounding condescending, you did turn on the PK *after* locking the ship, right?

Let me explain - before you lock, the TDC info is set according to wherever your scope is pointing. Once you lock, the TDC has one final set of info taken from the ship you were looking at the moment you locked, which it continuously updates, and when you turn on the PK (which is really a predictor, really), the PK uses that info from the TDC to continue to update the firing solution even though your scope is now looking somewhere else.

Thanks Zero Niner for the well described method. Yes, I turn on PK after locking the target so it begs the question whether the previous locked ship remained in the TDC instead of the new locked target when I turned the PK on.

[Zero Niner]

The best answer I can give based on my gaming experience is that when you lock a new target and then turned on the PK, the TDC should be tracking the new target.

TBH I've never experienced the situation you've described. All errors in torp track that I've seen are due to my errors. All I can do is describe what works for me, which is:

a. I use the PK only when I need to keep track of a target's location in instances where I cannot keep my scope out of the water, such as when I'm manoeuvering into position whilst submerged.

b. When ready to fire, I lock targets so that the TDC always has the latest updated firing solution. In auto mode it's not really necessary since the TDC generates solutions instantaneously. I.e. point and shoot, so to speak.

c. Unlock PK (if on) so that the prediction function is turned off, and the TDC is fed current (and not predicted) information to generate the most accurate firing solutions.

BTW, why do you turn on the PK anyway? As others have mentioned, it's not necessary. If you are already in a position to prosecute an attack, why not just swing the scope to your next target, wait until you think the time is right then fire? Why fiddle with the PK at all?

[Seminole]

My guess is...that since he is using Auto Target and his torpedos are swingly wildly left then he most likey has set his spread angle too far.

This would explain the final 3 running erratically left but not the first running true followed by the 3 "screwups". Unless he fires the first then sets the spread for the other 3 and doesn't realize just how the spread angle works and is inputting way too much spread. But that is all speculation.

As for clearing the TDC..simply hit the L key to deselect current target. The TDC will clear until you put the cross hairs over another target and hit the L key again to select.

As for using the PK with Auto target...it has the same use in game as the WWII submariners used it for. Select a target in a convoy and dive. Run silent. Run deep. The PK will keep tabs for you on the approaching target and you don't have to stay topside popping your scope up evey few minutes to stay current on the approaching ship(s). Unless the sound of depth charges arming is music to your ears the benefits of doing this ought to be fairly obvious.:D

[Captain Vlad]

Thanks Zero Niner for the well described method. Yes, I turn on PK after locking the target so it begs the question whether the previous locked ship remained in the TDC instead of the new locked target when I turned the PK on.

That does sound, to me, like what's happening.

[Fearless]

My guess is...that since he is using Auto Target and his torpedos are swingly wildly left then he most likey has set his spread angle too far.

Sorry Seminole, no cigar this time. Spread angle was set at zero.

[Fearless]

That does sound, to me, like what's happening.

Well hopefully when I instal the UBM addon maybe the prob will dissapear. Anyway, thank you all for the possible solutions. I'll keep on trying and if it still doesn't work, I'll throw myself into the deep end and attempt the realistic method. Manual. :D

[Rockin Robbins]

I am in a state of shock. Running stock 1.4 with only my alternate keyboard layout (from Trigger Maru plus shift-i for identify target) I ran a test mission with autotargeting. Don't need to lock anything. Don't need to ID the target. Don't need to use the PK. Just make sure you have a green or yellow triangle, press fire and the torpedo is on its way. Video will be shot tomorrow morning with the Borneo Convoy Scenario.

[Captain Vlad]

Just make sure you have a green or yellow triangle, press fire and the torpedo is on its way.

I promise you can still miss.:D

Torpedo settings are still very important, especially shooting at shallow draft targets like destroyers.

[Fearless]

I am in a state of shock. Running stock 1.4 with only my alternate keyboard layout (from Trigger Maru plus shift-i for identify target) I ran a test mission with manual targeting. Don't need to lock anything. Don't need to ID the target. Don't need to use the PK. Just make sure you have a green or yellow triangle, press fire and the torpedo is on its way. Video will be shot tomorrow morning with the Borneo Convoy Scenario.

Now that's really interesting. I wonder then if there was no lock option and no triangle but instead just have a "Mark" button, how realistic the fish would track the target.

[Zero Niner]

:confused:
Torps don't track the target, they travel in s straight line. Or did I not understand your post above correctly?

[Fearless]

:confused:
Torps don't track the target, they travel in s straight line. Or did I not understand your post above correctly?

My bad, Torps do travel in straight line. Was just referring to RL where the Captain gave the bearing, distance etc on the mark for input into the TDC. No triangle as such in the Scope and uzo's view.

[Rockin Robbins]

I am in a state of shock. Running stock 1.4 with only my alternate keyboard layout (from Trigger Maru plus shift-i for identify target) I ran a test mission with manual targeting. Don't need to lock anything. Don't need to ID the target. Don't need to use the PK. Just make sure you have a green or yellow triangle, press fire and the torpedo is on its way. Video will be shot tomorrow morning with the Borneo Convoy Scenario.
Now that's really interesting. I wonder then if there was no lock option and no triangle but instead just have a "Mark" button, how realistic the fish would track the target.

Well, then you'd be using manual targeting and life would be very different. You could forget about hitting multiple targets for the most part because you don't have the ability to split your tracking crew as a real captain would. You can do multiples in a limited way with the Dick O'Kane technique but you will still miss shots (hate to waste torpedoes!).

On the other hand, with manual targeting you can shoot using sonar only with two techniques now, and that is a hoot!

On average I'd say manual is three times more deadly than competent manual targeting. There's no chance of your periscope being sighted while gathering required information, no human or stadimeter error in setting up the TDC, multiple targets are all point and shoot. But when you hit a target with manual targeting you will jump to your feet and make a fool of yourself celebrating!:up: Just ask my wife.:rotfl:

[Mush Martin]

You can do multiples in a limited way with the Dick O'Kane technique but you will still miss shots (hate to waste torpedoes!).


on this we differ slightly RR, I make multiple simultaneous openers all the time
barely one out of five do I use dicks method as it only cuts a single
bearing to target.

(ive posted enough samples in the last mongth so I wont bother here)

M

[groomsie]

Just make sure you have a green or yellow triangle, press fire and the torpedo is on its way.

I promise you can still miss.:D

Torpedo settings are still very important, especially shooting at shallow draft targets like destroyers.

I agree they should be, but yesterday I read part of a rather lengthy thread started by WernerSobe WRT his NSM and what I took from that is depth makes no difference in the way damage is assessed in the game. The end of the conclusion was that the task of correcting this appeared to be huge and unlikely to be done by modders.

Thread link: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=120328&highlight=%22myth%22

Did I misread this thread, or, is there more recent changes (dates as I recall on the thread were about a year ago) in the updates making depth settings relevant (as they should be).

[Rockin Robbins]

No, groomsie, you have it right. But in order to kill the target the torpedo must explode. If it passes under the keel and the magnetic exploder doesn't work (a pretty good bet:yep:) you've wasted a torpedo.

WernerSobe claimed that because of the way damage is modeled, it doesn't matter if you hit the waterline or down by the keel, you get the same damage. I don't think that is what my experience shows, because a hole deeper under water leaks water faster because of greater water pressure down there. Werner claimed that doesn't matter in the game.

So it's definitely important that the torpedo run shallow enough to make actual contact with the hull in order for the more reliable contact exploder to make the boom. No boom, no blub, blub.

[Mush Martin]

I don't think that is what my experience shows


:yep: agreed

[LukeFF]

I don't think that is what my experience shows, because a hole deeper under water leaks water faster because of greater water pressure down there. Werner claimed that doesn't matter in the game.

It will definitely matter for RFB's new ship damage mod. :up:

[AVGWarhawk]

No, groomsie, you have it right. But in order to kill the target the torpedo must explode. If it passes under the keel and the magnetic exploder doesn't work (a pretty good bet:yep:) you've wasted a torpedo.

WernerSobe claimed that because of the way damage is modeled, it doesn't matter if you hit the waterline or down by the keel, you get the same damage. I don't think that is what my experience shows, because a hole deeper under water leaks water faster because of greater water pressure down there. Werner claimed that doesn't matter in the game.

So it's definitely important that the torpedo run shallow enough to make actual contact with the hull in order for the more reliable contact exploder to make the boom. No boom, no blub, blub.

I think Swdw was working on were to make your hit. He found the game does a reasonable job of making the torpedo just deflect down if the torp happens to hit the curviture of the keel. It was shelved for the moment for other pressing issue to fix or make better. I also think if you hit lower by the keel, good chance of breaking the vessels back.

[Gorshkov]

I experienced another stange TDC behavior in my SH4 Editor test missions. I play SH4 1.5 stock with manual TDC enabled and if I lock a target (L key) my periscope begins to track enemy ship. All is OK but after a moment periscope suddenly ends tracking procedure so I can't collect target data...I must lock target again but this idiotism also repeats again and again.
Also note this never happened to me in SH4 tutorial missions.

What is going on???

[Mush Martin]

I experienced another stange TDC behavior in my SH4 Editor test missions. I play SH4 1.5 stock with manual TDC enabled and if I lock a target (L key) my periscope begins to track enemy ship. All is OK but after a moment periscope suddenly ends tracking procedure so I can't collect target data...I must lock target again but this idiotism also repeats again and again.
Also note this never happened to me in SH4 tutorial missions.

What is going on???

Physical lock only holds when the target is in clear visual range
there is a large area where you only get lock for a few seconds.
test this by letting the target ship close you in the test mission.
M

[Gorshkov]

Physical lock only holds when the target is in clear visual range
there is a large area where you only get lock for a few seconds.
test this by letting the target ship close you in the test mission.
M

Really? Well, how I am to collect target data?
In my mission target ship travels slowly on perpendicular course at a distance of 1-2 km. My sub is not moving. Sea state 0.

[Mush Martin]

Physical lock only holds when the target is in clear visual range
there is a large area where you only get lock for a few seconds.
test this by letting the target ship close you in the test mission.
M
Really? Well, how I am to collect target data?
In my mission target ship travels slowly on perpendicular course at a distance of 1-2 km. My sub is not moving. Sea state 0.


in those cases (see eg. below)

two pencil marks on the nav map and three minutes apart will give course and speed, that is use the tool helper to determine course
and multimply the distance measured in nautical miles by 20 to
get NM/hr spd.
note: more marks and more time are better and essential against an alerted enemy thats zig zagging.

anyway once all thats done.
hit lock
ID ship (if not already done)
it will unlock
hit lock again
enter and update speed estimate
hit lock again
enter and update course estimate
hit lock again
set range as normal but do it fast.

that should be enough.
M

[Gorshkov]

Thanks alot!

Anyway I have not noticed there is lock chance information associated with lock (S) button! It appears to show pop-up with "good" or "poor" or maybe some intermediate conditions!
Of course no such info in game manual... :down:


Naturally I know "navigation map" and "sonar" targeting methods but I meant visual method only.
Well, your idea of forceful target data input into TDC is really good!

[Mush Martin]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/SH4Img2008-06-10_070010_812.jpg

[LukeFF]

I think Swdw was working on were to make your hit. He found the game does a reasonable job of making the torpedo just deflect down if the torp happens to hit the curviture of the keel. It was shelved for the moment for other pressing issue to fix or make better. I also think if you hit lower by the keel, good chance of breaking the vessels back.
What he found out was that the torpedo impact angle as calculated by the game is "three-dimensional," that is, it's not just the angle of the torpedo in relation to the ship's course that matters but also the curvature of the hull. Nothing really that can be modded other than what the game already allows.

[Rockin Robbins]

OK, guys, back to where the thread started. I've been promising to check out exactly how auto targeting works and how it doesn't, and what I found was shocking (as seen above). I also promised to come up with a video and of course real life reared its in this case not ugly head (:/\\k:) actually she is much more attractive than the triangle there, but I have persevered.

So here is the first ever, long awaited, asked for specifically on this thread but I've been kept away by primeval forces Automatic Targeting Tutorial Video (http://files.filefront.com/Automatic+Targeting+Tutoreo7z/;11051034;/fileinfo.html).

[Fearless]

Guys, I restarted my career and "blow me down" problem fixed. I don't know what it was but I assume it may have been a buggy start. Thanks for all your comments and advise. I'll be changing to manual next patrol out :arrgh!: