IJN submarine Kaidai Dual Deck Gun : Help needed

[keltos01]

Hi all !
I ordered a copy of "The Maru Special - Japanese Naval Vessels #31, 1979, 9." in which I found quite a few interresting pictures of IJN subs.

I included the text with the image, hoping that someone in the community can translate it (Zaza ?) as I don't read japanese.

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/7587/dualdeckgunve4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/7587/dualdeckgunve4.effcd4e9b5.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=60&i=dualdeckgunve4.jpg)

Basically I'd like to have one ingame... and functionnal, but apart from the 3d which is my good side, I don't know where to start.. and I want it baaaaad !

First we'd need to know what caliber weapon this is ?

then how to make a new gun node in the radarxx file so as to have a new gun, then then, then.....

[Raptor1]

Huh, I never heard of a Kaidai with dual deck guns, must be a special case

As far as I know all the Kaidais mounted either a single 4" or a single 4.7"/5" gun (I'm not sure if it's 4.7 or 5)

[keltos01]

the picture speak for itself though (unless the text stes otherwise?) it looks like a Kaidai, and the gun, well I didn't drink that much did I ?:88)

[Raptor1]

I'll try to see if some other submarine class had a dual deck gun, otherwise it must be a special refit or something

[Raptor1]

Okay, looking at it, I would guess it's the J3 type submarine I-8, which was refitted a dual 5.5" deck gun in 1943

The text seems to confirm it (I think)

[keltos01]

That was fast ! what source do you use ??

could we use one ingame ? even a dual 4.7" would do...

[Raptor1]

That was fast ! what source do you use ??

could we use one ingame ? even a dual 4.7" would do...
http://www.combinedfleet.com/type_j3.htm


I-8 received a twin 14cm mount forward in 1943.


The kanji 伊 reads as I, 潜 - this one reads as Sen, so I guess it would translate as "Submarine I-8"...I think

As for ingame, I think it's possible, but I don't know if you could actually use it or if only the AI can operate it

[keltos01]

I think xantro said that if you lock a target the ai fires at it, so it wouldn't really matter, but for the fact that you wouldn't have your butt on the gun..

[Raptor1]

Now that I think about, we have Dual AA guns we can shoot, so we could probably do the same for the deck gun, ne?

[keltos01]

That would be more than cool :rock:

it would even give us an edge : why waste torpedoes on small fries ?

[keltos01]

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2787/i8finalmasterwebxs5.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

[Kamikaze Krazy]

I haven't seen anything like that before. It reminds me of the French submarine cruiser, which also had a twin deck gun.:)

Here is a source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surcouf_(N_N_3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surcouf_%28N_N_3))



How about this for an idea. How about taking one of the Japanese twin AA guns, like on one of those Japanese battleships, and removing the gun shield.:up: Would that work or would that be too difficult?:-? I don't know if that would be very historically accurate though.

[keltos01]

Why not ? my problem is that I'd like to have a double muzzle flash as well.. The thing was if I replace a normal deckgun 3d model with this double gun, then all subs using the model will have twin guns, whereas in reality there was only one Kaidai equiped with this one.

I know the Surcouf, she had a twin gun turret, she was believed to have been hit by a cargo near ?cuba? and sunk, when it was an american plane which mistook her for german and sunk her..

This is a low priority mod to me, because I'm happy with the Kaidai 4 as it is, but I'd really like to solve this puzzle : two shells fired simultaneously, DDs beware !

Keltos

[kptn_kaiserhof]

it looks kind of futuristic just look on keltos 01's picture

[peabody]

Why not ? my problem is that I'd like to have a double muzzle flash as well.. The thing was if I replace a normal deckgun 3d model with this double gun, then all subs using the model will have twin guns, whereas in reality there was only one Kaidai equiped with this one.

I know the Surcouf, she had a twin gun turret, she was believed to have been hit by a cargo near ?cuba? and sunk, when it was an american plane which mistook her for german and sunk her..

This is a low priority mod to me, because I'm happy with the Kaidai 4 as it is, but I'd really like to solve this puzzle : two shells fired simultaneously, DDs beware !

Keltos

When we build ships we pull guns out of gunsradar.dat all the time to make playable turrets. Make a 3D model and make the barrels separate. If you look at the 3D model in gunsradar.dat you will see the turret and barrels are separate objects so the barrels can be positioned separately. Build your 3D that way and replace the 3D model, change the name, remapIDs just like cloning a sub (Mikhayl's tutorial) and put it in Subparts for German (don't remember the exact folder name) and weapons.upc and upgradepack.upc and it should work fine. Of course add it to the subs.upc under upgradepackslots or whatever it's named.
Peabody

[keltos01]

and you say you're a beginner....

[peabody]

and you say you're a beginner....
Don't forget my ships won't work in Career mode. :nope: So you may get a nice gun on a sub you can't use. :hmm:

And yes, I am a beginner. I have tons to learn.
Peabody

[keltos01]

the hard part will be to make it load two shells and fire them I think.. but with your insight I'll try ;)
:up:

[peabody]

the hard part will be to make it load two shells and fire them I think.. but with your insight I'll try ;)
:up:
Check the .sim file for a dual barrel gun. "Clipsize=2" Triple barrel "clipsize=3"

Peabody

[peabody]

Keltos,

With S3D go to library/shipparts/guns_Radar_02.dat and check out the "4InchDouble". If you look at the 3D preview and rotate, the barrels look very close to what is in your picture. So if you just got rid of the shield and make a mount for it, you could probably use those barrels.

Peabody

[keltos01]

Thanks Peabody !!!!:up::up::up:

I'll do it when I get some free time this week, would be a nice addition to our mod I should think :lol:

keltos

ps it's actually the type 5 that got the dual deck gun not the 4... wikki says :

KD5

3 KD5s were constructed; I-165, I-166, and I-67 were all completed in 1932. The design saw the upgrade of the deck weapon from a 50 cal to a 65 cal dual-purpose gun. The submarine was also slightly wider and taller, with an increased crew complement of 75 and an increased maximum depth of 230 ft (70 m).

[keltos01]

Keltos,

With S3D go to library/shipparts/guns_Radar_02.dat and check out the "4InchDouble". If you look at the 3D preview and rotate, the barrels look very close to what is in your picture. So if you just got rid of the shield and make a mount for it, you could probably use those barrels.

Peabody

couldn't I just link the kaidai's deck gun tube to those barrels instead of the normal single one ???

keltos

[peabody]

Keltos,

With S3D go to library/shipparts/guns_Radar_02.dat and check out the "4InchDouble". If you look at the 3D preview and rotate, the barrels look very close to what is in your picture. So if you just got rid of the shield and make a mount for it, you could probably use those barrels.

Peabody
couldn't I just link the kaidai's deck gun tube to those barrels instead of the normal single one ???

keltos
Probably won't work with the mount, I'll take a look at it though. And I did look at the other gun and with the shield taken off at the right point, it would already have a mount. I'll check the Kaidai's gun though and see how it mounts.

Edit: That 105 is a pretty detailed gun. It wouldn't be just a simple barrel exchange.
Peabody

[kptn_kaiserhof]

looks sci fi

[keltos01]

I wonder if they fired them both at the same time or one then the other ?

[zaza]

This sub is not kaidai class.
It is Jyunsen type Ⅲ .
This is I-8 and that picture had taken in Burest France in 1943.

Deck gun is type11 14cm 40L.

[keltos01]

This sub is not kaidai class.
It is Jyunsen type Ⅲ .
This is I-8 and that picture had taken in Burest France in 1943.

Deck gun is type11 14cm 40L.

there i go ! :oops: wrong type of sub again !:oops:

Well, since I don't have it then I needenth worry about the dual gun do I ?

Thanks again Zaza ! always a big help, since the start of our Japanese Submarine adventure ! :up::up::up:

do you have any other pictures of that class ?

keltos

[I-25]

also regarding that gun, iv read that it was more of a thing to "wow" the germans, it was fitted right before the voyage to Brest and removed as soon as the submarine returned to japan it and replaced with a standard single mount cannon again.

kinda ironic because the I-8 ended up getting sunk in a surface action with a single DD ;)

[keltos01]

so no point really :(

I heard that the germans fitted vierling AA guns to those IJN subs that went to France because they were better than the triple AA the japs had.

keltos

[keltos01]

bump for I-25, look at post #26 for the boat type : Jyunsen III , name : I-8.

any other good pictures you might have are more than welcome !!!

keltos

[I-25]

Bump @ Keltos01 i think you saw it already but in the other thread i got a good shot of the twin deck gun in the J3 I-8:up:

[keltos01]

Yeah ! mine came from the xx Maru, a kindo magazine on IJN SUBs a qaurter of an inch thick. could you post it here too ?

At least on that picture they are loading it, meaning they actually fired the thing !

did you see the color pictures of IJN subs ?

keltos

[I-25]

here ya go
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y144/fritz641/26.jpg

That guy on the back looks like japanese rambo:o

[keltos01]

I'd like to model that after the Jyunsen B is done :yep:

[I-25]

I have more pics just to let you know :up:

[keltos01]

please post them !!!

keltos

[keltos01]

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/7579/dual5inchtx2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


[/URL]



or a second model :

[URL="http://imageshack.us"]http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2913/double5inchiv6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


the base will be the same as above.

keltos

[keltos01]

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4866/gunswd4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/gunswd4.jpg/1/w1024.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img25/gunswd4.jpg/1/)

and :

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3060/dualgunue5.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/dualgunue5.jpg/1/w1024.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img13/dualgunue5.jpg/1/)

Peabody made the gun files, I made the 3d and textures.