MDC Pulls out of Zimbabwe run-off "election"

[Steel_Tomb]

Just saw this on Yahoo: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080622/tpl-uk-zimbabwe-election-43a8d4f.html

Looks like that bastard Mugabe will stay in power after all, and I would also bet that the rest of the world will now say "this is a very bad thing Mugabe is a very bad person...." and then do absolutely NOTHING. Its not as if the SA government will do anything, they couldn't give a **** about Zimbabwe. :damn:

[Schroeder]

That was to be expected.:-?:down:

[Platapus]

Elections don't mean much if the results don't matter :(

[Jimbuna]

Not suprised and don't expect any other country to do anything about it.......unless they find oil there :lol:

[Von Tonner]

Our president is a disgrace to our country. South Africa, as the biggest economic and military powerhouse in Africa could bring Mugabe to heal within 24 hours tops. We could switch off the lights in Zimbabwe as we supply it with electrical power. All rail would come to a stop as we just recall all our rolling stock. We close our borders denying access to our ports and goods. We call up our loans and when these are not met we attach any and all assets of theirs we can get our hands on. And last but not least, as a member of the UN Security Council, we pull our diplomatic head out of our proverbial a**e and stop siding with Russia in protecting him.

Having said all that, I am not sure pulling out of the election was a wise move. I say that simply because that is exactly what Mugabe wants - and doing what he wants cannot be good thing.

[Skybird]

At times I consder sending assassins a valid political option. It cannot be that millions have to suffer becasue of the greed of a cruel old man. Ruling that out is not democratic or humanistic, but cynical.

We should stop conventional develoepemnt aid, becasue it helps to raise and foster corruption throughout Africa. Africa has plenty of fertile land to feed all the people living there. But it is the corrupt gangaster clans stealing it and preventing distribution. And they do the same with developement aide, both in food and money. that way, we become guilty ourselves. Instead we should shift the agriculutral trad eonto a fair basis. Anything beyond that we should only do once African people have dealt with their corrupt leaders and dictators. Of course, one would need to get the EU, the Us, the chinese and the russians all together into that boat. since that is highly unrealistic, corruption will stay, people will continue to suffer, the West will continue to pay money in developement aid to ease it's bad subcontious feelings - and by doing so we will continue to cripple the local agriculture with our cheap imports that kick local farmers out of business, and we will be guilty of actively supporting the corruption and the suffering - by developement aid.

Send assassins, or turn your back on Africa. That would at least be more honest. Developement aid causes havoc over there. Since some years you can hear a gropwing canon of African politiaicnas themselves saying that. they do not want aid. They want fair trade - THAT would be developement aid leading to a fostering of local farming, food production and modeate wealth a slong as local gangsters would not be tolerated, but shot.

[Konovalov]

At times I consder sending assassins a valid political option. It cannot be that millions have to suffer becasue of the greed of a cruel old man. Ruling that out is not democratic or humanistic, but cynical.
Funny that. I was watching the news the other night and turned to my wife and said, "Why doesn't somebody just bloody put a bullet through that thugs head." I'm somewhat ashamed to admit to that thought because I really meant what I said. You could say it is just the frustration of hearing over and over again of how little is being done to stop this guy get away with thuggery, politcal violence, intimidation, and of course murder.

The most frustrating thing to watch about this whole thing would have to be the almost total impotence and inaction of the African nations in dealing with this problem within their own backyard. No more is this sad situation highlighted than by the South Arican President Thabo Mbeki. President Mbeki almost sickens me as much as that thug Mugabe himself. :damn: :damn: :damn:

[STEED]

I want to see his head chopped off. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/icons/icon8.gif

Once again that evil swine wins the day and laughs at the rest of the world. :nope:

[Jimbuna]

I think the sight of a headless Mugabe would be an even more repugnant sight than the one with the head......but something should/must be done to rid the world of this inhumane despot.

[Skybird]

You could say it is just the frustration
When it comes to such measuress, you can always safely assume I am absolutely serious and do not act by emotional frustration. For me, the option I pointed at is a calmy considered reasonable thought. I strongly believe that you damage yourself when issuing death sentences in a state of emotional arousal. Call it creation of bad karma, if you want. If you think you can decide in a state of emotion, you are wrong - you get decided. Gangsters like Mugabe are in the way of the well-being of millions of people. They must be removed for the sake of the latter. Logic says so. Reason says so. Love for thy next says so. Conclusion: kill them, when nothing else seem to work.

[Von Tonner]

Very interesting article here on whether a USA President can order the assassination of a foreign individual. If I understand it correctly, he can.

http://www.newsaic.com/mwassassin.html

[STEED]

but something should/must be done to rid the world of this inhumane despot.

Never will happen. :nope:

Have they got........

Oil

Minerals

Strategic Land

Other commonalties

...........No

[DeepIron]

http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/opinion319.18190.html

"In a Democracy, people get the government they deserve"... Sorry folks, but this seems to be a "universal truth" on this planet... If/when the Zimbabwean people get really fed up with a despot like Mugabe, they'll find a way to replace him... :shifty:

As long as the people allow a thug like Mugabe to remain in office, the situation in Zimbabwe won't improve IMO...

[Von Tonner]

but something should/must be done to rid the world of this inhumane despot.
Never will happen. :nope:

Have they got........

Oil

Minerals

Strategic Land

Other commonalties

...........No
Actually the country is quite rich in minerals. For example, it has the world's largest reserves in platinum - after South Africa. It has gold, copper and a host of other much sought after minerals. It is not for nothing that China is bankrolling Mugabe.

Found this interesting too:

"The bio-diesel plant, according to the paper, has the capacity to produce 100 million litres of diesel annually if fully operational according to the government mouthpiece. The plant, which processes jatropha, cotton seed, sunflower and soya, among others, to produce bio-diesel, is a joint venture between the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe and Youn Woo Investments of South Korea.
World first
Zimbabwe also scored big by being the the first country in the world to produce bio-diesel with a bio-purity level of virtually 100%.
Germany has a bio-purity level of 75% while other European countries range from 2% to 20%."

[STEED]

but something should/must be done to rid the world of this inhumane despot.
Never will happen. :nope:

Have they got........

Oil

Minerals

Strategic Land

Other commonalties

...........No
Actually the country is quite rich in minerals. For example, it has the world's largest reserves in platinum - after South Africa. It has gold, copper and a host of other much sought after minerals. It is not for nothing that China is bankrolling Mugabe.

Found this interesting too:

"The bio-diesel plant, according to the paper, has the capacity to produce 100 million litres of diesel annually if fully operational according to the government mouthpiece. The plant, which processes jatropha, cotton seed, sunflower and soya, among others, to produce bio-diesel, is a joint venture between the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe and Youn Woo Investments of South Korea.
World first
Zimbabwe also scored big by being the the first country in the world to produce bio-diesel with a bio-purity level of virtually 100%.
Germany has a bio-purity level of 75% while other European countries range from 2% to 20%."

I stand corrected.

So why has the world not gone in there to over throw this swine?

[Von Tonner]

but something should/must be done to rid the world of this inhumane despot.
Never will happen. :nope:

Have they got........

Oil

Minerals

Strategic Land

Other commonalties

...........No
Actually the country is quite rich in minerals. For example, it has the world's largest reserves in platinum - after South Africa. It has gold, copper and a host of other much sought after minerals. It is not for nothing that China is bankrolling Mugabe.

Found this interesting too:

"The bio-diesel plant, according to the paper, has the capacity to produce 100 million litres of diesel annually if fully operational according to the government mouthpiece. The plant, which processes jatropha, cotton seed, sunflower and soya, among others, to produce bio-diesel, is a joint venture between the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe and Youn Woo Investments of South Korea.
World first
Zimbabwe also scored big by being the the first country in the world to produce bio-diesel with a bio-purity level of virtually 100%.
Germany has a bio-purity level of 75% while other European countries range from 2% to 20%."
I stand corrected.

So why has the world not gone in there to over throw this swine?

That is the million dollar question? It really puzzels me as to why the USA, after contesting the African continent because of its raw wealth against the Soviets during the Cold War period, is now quite content to stand back and let China run amok - and the Koreans as well.

[August]

That is the million dollar question? It really puzzels me as to why the USA, after contesting the African continent because of its raw wealth against the Soviets during the Cold War period, is now quite content to stand back and let China run amok - and the Koreans as well.

Why do we have to do the worlds dirty work every time, only to then get spat on by the rest of the world for doing it?

Why can't South Africa and the rest of the African union fix the problem? Surely they possess the means to do so...

[Skybird]

Very interesting article here on whether a USA President can order the assassination of a foreign individual. If I understand it correctly, he can.

http://www.newsaic.com/mwassassin.html

If he is cleverhe will never do it, because what he does not say, cannot be taped - cannot be used against him. "Do you think somebody in the WH said: let's set up some lies, invent some untrue claims, and get a reason to occupy Iraq"? Politics means to find out how you can work offside the rules and get that done without needing to claim responsibility. Seen that way, it is a creative art.

It is enough to let an unspoken intention invisibly tickle down the hierachy until it reaches a level of the system where somebody who will never be known decides to carry out the order that was never spoken out. Because we do not assassinate heads of foreign states and foreign states' major politicians. Not officially, I mean.

[STEED]

Why can't South Africa and the rest of the African union fix the problem? Surely they possess the means to do so...

Thats the best laugh I had all day. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Skybird]

but something should/must be done to rid the world of this inhumane despot.
Never will happen. :nope:

Have they got........

Oil

Minerals

Strategic Land

Other commonalties

...........No
Actually the country is quite rich in minerals. For example, it has the world's largest reserves in platinum - after South Africa. It has gold, copper and a host of other much sought after minerals. It is not for nothing that China is bankrolling Mugabe.

Found this interesting too:

"The bio-diesel plant, according to the paper, has the capacity to produce 100 million litres of diesel annually if fully operational according to the government mouthpiece. The plant, which processes jatropha, cotton seed, sunflower and soya, among others, to produce bio-diesel, is a joint venture between the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe and Youn Woo Investments of South Korea.
World first
Zimbabwe also scored big by being the the first country in the world to produce bio-diesel with a bio-purity level of virtually 100%.
Germany has a bio-purity level of 75% while other European countries range from 2% to 20%."
I stand corrected.

So why has the world not gone in there to over throw this swine?

That is the million dollar question? It really puzzels me as to why the USA, after contesting the African continent because of its raw wealth against the Soviets during the Cold War period, is now quite content to stand back and let China run amok - and the Koreans as well.

"as long as the stuff keeps coming, there is no need to invest ion an overthrow. We have never been shy to trade with brutal opressors as long as he sells us what we want. Preferrably to our conditions. Mugabe knows that, and so he knows he is safe from real action. Ever heared of blood diamonds? they get washed a bit, and the shine holds as long as no questions get asked. So, most do not ask.

[Takeda Shingen]

I really don't get involved in the political threads, but the remarks of the UN's Secretary General just struck me as typically non-committal, followed by a tag-line regarding collaboration in the strictly symbolic sense. What a useless organization.

[Von Tonner]

but something should/must be done to rid the world of this inhumane despot.
Never will happen. :nope:

Have they got........

Oil

Minerals

Strategic Land

Other commonalties

...........No
Actually the country is quite rich in minerals. For example, it has the world's largest reserves in platinum - after South Africa. It has gold, copper and a host of other much sought after minerals. It is not for nothing that China is bankrolling Mugabe.

Found this interesting too:

"The bio-diesel plant, according to the paper, has the capacity to produce 100 million litres of diesel annually if fully operational according to the government mouthpiece. The plant, which processes jatropha, cotton seed, sunflower and soya, among others, to produce bio-diesel, is a joint venture between the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe and Youn Woo Investments of South Korea.
World first
Zimbabwe also scored big by being the the first country in the world to produce bio-diesel with a bio-purity level of virtually 100%.
Germany has a bio-purity level of 75% while other European countries range from 2% to 20%."
I stand corrected.

So why has the world not gone in there to over throw this swine?
That is the million dollar question? It really puzzels me as to why the USA, after contesting the African continent because of its raw wealth against the Soviets during the Cold War period, is now quite content to stand back and let China run amok - and the Koreans as well.
"as long as the stuff keeps coming, there is no need to invest ion an overthrow. We have never been shy to trade with brutal opressors as long as he sells us what we want. Preferrably to our conditions. Mugabe knows that, and so he knows he is safe from real action. Ever heared of blood diamonds? they get washed a bit, and the shine holds as long as no questions get asked. So, most do not ask.

To Skybird: I read an intersesting article recently about how China rapes for example the forests of Mozambique, brings the raw wood back to China, turns it into whatever, and sells it to the USA.

[Jimbuna]

I really don't get involved in the political threads, but the remarks of the UN's Secretary General just struck me as typically non-committal, followed by a tag-line regarding collaboration in the strictly symbolic sense. What a useless organization.


A lot of people don't use the term 'useless' when referring to the UN because it contains the word 'use'.

Hopeless is a term more commonly used http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[orwell]

I read an intersesting article recently about how China rapes for example the forests of Mozambique, brings the raw wood back to China, turns it into whatever, and sells it to the USA.

How do you mean rape? Do you find the harvesting, shipping back to China, then selling to the US wrong? Or do you just mean the conditions under which they obtain the initial product?

[Skybird]

I really don't get involved in the political threads, but the remarks of the UN's Secretary General just struck me as typically non-committal, followed by a tag-line regarding collaboration in the strictly symbolic sense. What a useless organization.
Are you serious or are you ironic? I tend to assume the first, but I am not sure.

@ von Tonner,

EU-nations buy chicken from African nations to prices they dictate, take the filets for themselves, send back the wings and legs to Africa and sell them at prices so that local farmers trying to sell their own chicken cannot compete with these dumping prices and face bancruptcy, which causes havoc on African agricultural economy. Many other goods are being traded in this way, too. The EU calls that economical developement. I call it assistance to mass murder and destabilizing of social and national structures, because that's what it is in the end.

Or look at american companies like Sonex, which together with Candian Barrick Gold has established a cartel in the region around Rwanda and Uganda and exports minerals and tropical woods at conditions dictated by America, and is suspected by many of acting in the name of the military complex of the US. Not to mention the political and military intrigues the Us over the past 50 years have been massively engaged in.

It is not only the chinese and the russians. The Europeans and Americans are at least as guilty, if not more -due to their longer time of messing up activity in this region.

I am a realist, and i do not believe in the good of man - I eventually believe in some good in some men only. therefor I see no hope for Africa, it will become the hellhole of this and the next century, at least in those places were it not already is.

A brutally open and insightful read is this book, which I consider to be one of the best of the author. But be warned, it is a good method to create depressions, since it if filled with mutilation, genocide, masskilling, war and utmost brutality - the daily routine in many parts of Africa.

http://www.amazon.de/Afrikanische-Totenklage-Ausverkauf-Schwarzen-Kontinents/dp/3442152194/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214259445&sr=8-7

[bookworm_020]

As I see it, the MDC didn't have much choice. The chances of a free and fair election were non existant, and even if they won, the armed forces would haven't accepted the result.

The only two thinks that will cause change in Zimbabwe, the crooks in charge leave as there is nothing left to take or control, or they all drop dead! A long shot for both methods.

[Skybird]

"Fear the old men - they have nothing left to lose."

[Ishmael]

Here's a Johnny Clegg song about Uncle Bob Mugabe, The Revolution Will Eat It's Children:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqBCxKrvRSo

[Takeda Shingen]

I really don't get involved in the political threads, but the remarks of the UN's Secretary General just struck me as typically non-committal, followed by a tag-line regarding collaboration in the strictly symbolic sense. What a useless organization.
Are you serious or are you ironic? I tend to assume the first, but I am not sure.

Being serious. I can see how it would be confusing. My sarcasm and ire tend to flow along similar lines as well. My bad.

[Ishmael]

I got this from my Scatterlings group. I signed the petition. You may want to look at this:


Subject: Save Zimbabwe from Mugabe


Dear friends, African leaders can still save Zimbabwe by holding an emergency summit to broker a legitimate government. Click below to join the call:





On Thursday, 27th June, Zimbabwe will hold a cruel sham of a vote for President. The opposition Movement for Democratic Change has just withdrawn from the run-off -- not in a concession of victory, but rather in recognition that Mugabe's campaign of violence and terror has erased any hope for a democratic election.

But against the odds, hope survives. Amidst growing international pressure, Mugabe's ZANU-PF party and the opposition have entered private talks. A unity government may be possible yet.

The United Nations Security Council unanimously held on Monday that free and fair elections are now impossible in Zimbabwe. The UN Secretary-General spoke out. But it is African leaders, most of all Thabo Mbeki, who hold the key. Even Mugabe cannot cling to power without their cooperation. Today, we're launching an emergency campaign, petitioning these leaders to call an immediate summit, isolate Mugabe, and broker a legitimate government for Zimbabwe. Our call will be published in big newspaper advertisements in South Africa, Tanzania, Angola, and Mozambique this week -- click here to see the ads and endorse their message:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_zimbabwe/4.php?cl=100578046 (http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_zimbabwe/4.php?cl=100578046)

Zimbabwe's neighbours supply its electricity and goods, and control the borders. Many Southern African leaders are already calling for the postponement of the election -- but there's a real danger that they will end up accepting this charade. This would be a grave miscalculation: if Mugabe succeeds in his de facto coup, Zimbabwe's implosion will accelerate, and chaos could spread throughout the region.

So our campaign will publicly name those African leaders who hold Mugabe's last remaining lifeline. If these leaders step up strongly now, they can convince enough of Mugabe's officials that change is coming one way or another -- and set the stage for Morgan Tsvangirai to lead a unity government to pull Zimbabwe back together.

Robert Mugabe saved Zimbabwe from colonialism. Now it's time for African leaders to save Zimbabwe from him.

Help us raise 250,000 voices this week, including a great roar from every country in Africa, to be delivered in an immediate multi-country ad campaign. Click to see the ads, sign, and then forward this to friends:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_zimbabwe/4.php?cl=100578046 (http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_zimbabwe/4.php?cl=100578046)

With hope and determination,

Ben, Alice, Paul, Graziela, Mark, Ricken, Iain, Veronique, Pascal, and Milena -- the Avaaz.org team

PS: For more information and sources for the facts above, see:

Thabo Mbeki and the emergency talks for a settlement:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article4200177.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article4200177.ece)

United Nations Security Council declares free and fair elections "impossible":
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2026827820080624 (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2026827820080624)

Elections going ahead despite MDC pull-out:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7468849.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7468849.stm)

Mugabe: "Only God will remove me!"
http://www.thetimes.co.za/SpecialReports/Zimbabwe/Article.aspx?id=788598 (http://www.thetimes.co.za/SpecialReports/Zimbabwe/Article.aspx?id=788598)

Regional leaders criticizing Mugabe:
Tanzania's Kikwete - http://allafrica.com/stories/200806200336.html (http://allafrica.com/stories/200806200336.html)
Rwanda's Kagame - http://allafrica.com/stories/200806190003.html (http://allafrica.com/stories/200806190003.html)
Kenya's Odinga - http://allafrica.com/stories/200806190949.html (http://allafrica.com/stories/200806190949.html)
Uganada's Museveni - http://allafrica.com/stories/200806120016.html (http://allafrica.com/stories/200806120016.html)

_______


ABOUT AVAAZ
Avaaz.org is an independent, not-for-profit global campaigning organization that works to ensure that the views and values of the world's people inform global decision-making. (Avaaz means "voice" in many languages.) Avaaz receives no money from governments or corporations, and is staffed by a global team based in London, Rio de Janeiro, New York, Paris, Washington DC, and Geneva.

Don't forget to check out our Facebook and Myspace and Bebo pages!


You are getting this message because you signed "Stop the clash of civilizations" on 2006-11-27 using the email address pavey@sasktel.net (pavey@sasktel.net).
To ensure that Avaaz messages reach your inbox, please add avaaz@avaaz.org to your address book. To change your email address, language settings, or other personal information, https://secure.avaaz.org/act/index.php?r=profile&user=157a9cfb96d35f90de0c21d47f6b9afc&lang=en (https://secure.avaaz.org/act/index.php?r=profile&user=157a9cfb96d35f90de0c21d47f6b9afc&lang=en). , or simply go here to unsubscribe.

To contact Avaaz, please do not reply to this email. Instead, write to info@avaaz.org (info@avaaz.org). You can also send postal mail to our New York office: 260 Fifth Avenue, 9th floor, New York, NY 10001 U.S.A.

If you have technical problems, please go to http://www.avaaz.org (http://www.avaaz.org/).

[STEED]

So this is our toughest action against that swine, what a joke. :nope:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080625/tuk-zimbabwe-vote-britain-mugabe-award-a7ad41d.html

[STEED]

Just saw the TV News what a joke. The way it came across was like he really got a good kick in the teeth, as if. :down:

[Von Tonner]

Just saw the TV News what a joke. The way it came across was like he really got a good kick in the teeth, as if. :down:

But hey Steed, you are not going to play cricket against him, and nor are we - that will really piss him off. Jokes aside - this is a bad reflection on the world (UN) and more so on my country which could shut his water off in any given hour.

[Jimbuna]

The old uns are still the best http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img412/4774/thumbsuplargeon1.gif

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4074/mugabeepa2102400x346xj5.jpg

[mrbeast]

Heard on the news that Nelson Mandela has for the first time publically criticised Mugabe.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7474079.stm