Unrealistic crew

[kaarlo]

Hi!

I have played SH3 alot, and are quite satisfied with the game and the mods, which make the experience even more enjoyable. Thanks to all modders!

There's however a issue that disturbs my otherwise perfect gaming experience, and that is the unrealistic crew on SH3 u-boats. Let me give some examples:

1. SH3 has 6 officers aboard (including herr kaleun). German subs had, however, usually only four (Cmdr, I WO, II WO and LI). It is possible to dismiss the extra officers, but the game has been built up in a way that requires them to be aboard.

2. Regular crewmen doesn't have any qualifications, and even if one would assing them qualifications with Commander, they don't affect the gameplay (seamen's qualifications do not make any difference in their skills, a machinist works as well as a radioman). Real uboats had no unqualified crewmembers aboard, everyone had received a training for some duty.

3. Some important ranks used by the Kriegsmarine are missing from the game, Matrose (seaman), Maat and Obermaat to name a few.

I was wondering, whether it is possible to create a mod, in which these issues would be corrected. I would do it myself, but I haven't any idea how to mod this game (or any other game for that matter). The main point would be to reduce the amount of officers to 4, give more weight and importance to the warrant officers, introduce a "real" qualification system for the crew, and add some missing ranks.

What do you think, is this possible, or are these things hard-coded?

[Murr44]

JScones did a very good job with his SH3 Commander add-on. With it installed you can get a more realistic crew if you choose. I think (I could be wrong) that the game was partially based on US Navy subs (6 (including the player) officers instead of 4, US naval ranks, etc.) SH3 Commander corrects the rank terminology issue by giving your personnel the correct German ranks. I would think that the missing ranks are probably hard-coded though, along with the other issues you speak of.

[1480]

What Murr44 said is correct. With the Commander in use you can get the crew size down to 44 on a Type VII. I shift the officers around, two are only necessary in the Zentrale during normal Boot operations. The other two are at rest except during an attack. Switching them out when they get fatigued. U-31 in Oct 39, I have two Bootsman with a radio rating to man the sonar, two maats operating the funk. Two watch specialists, two machinists and two torpedo men. The rest are not specialized so they can man the deck watch, torpedo room, the engines and zentrale. It's quite cramped when submerged but if you keep the extras in the damage team, or diesel compartment, then the fatigue factor is lessened. A little tip: you only need one bootsman, and 3-4 ratings in the engines to have them run properly.

[gum22]

I noticed this problem too and have been playing with a "fix" of sorts on my own. I'm no modder though, so I'll see if I can explain what I have done. I use GWX2.1 and SH3C3.1

A Real range of possible crew ranks (Types VII and II) looks like this:

Officers:

KptLt
OLtzS
LtzS

Warrant Officers:

StabsOberBootsmann(<-- Very senior enlisted guy)/Oberfähnrich (<--Pretty young officer candidate)
OberBootsmann
Bootsmann

Petty Officers:

OberMaat
Maat

Sailors:

Matrose
Matrosengefreiter
Matrosenobergefreiter
Matrosenhauptgefreiter


Obviously, SH3 can only handle 9 ranks on the sub. To get there, I have tweaked the en_menu file, another file called "grade.tga" and have also modified the daylights out of the crew ranks and decorations tga and ini.

First,

I have modified part of the file en_menu.txt to look like this:

160=Matrosengefreiter
161=Matrosenobergefreiter
162=Matrosenhauptgefreiter
163=Bootsmaat/Oberbootsmaat
164=Bootsmann
165=Oberbootsmann
166=Oberfähnrich/Oberbootsmann
167=Leutnant z. S.
168=Oberleutnant z. S.
169=Oberleutnant z. S.
170=Leutnant z. S.; Oberleutnant z. S.
171=Oberleutnant z. S.; Kapitänleutnant
172=Kapitänleutnant; Korvettenkapitän
173=Korvettenkapitän; Fregattenkapitän
174=;Kapitän z. S.

I have nine ranks in my personal crew:

The Skipper (Player, can be LtzS, OLtzS or KptLt) doesn't need to show up, so...

My crew "officers" are:

166=Oberfähnrich/OberSteurmann [<-- this rank slot is a warrant rank reflected in slot #166 above and can represent either an Oberfähnrich (ie- a midshipman) or a senior warrant officer like the Navigator/Quartermaster. On Type II's, I have my warrant bosun IIIWO in this "officer" slot. On Type VII's, I do not. I don't play Type IX's yet.]
167=Leutnant z. S.
168=Oberleutnant z. S.

These three "officer" ranks allow me to have warrant officers occupy the navigator and bosun slots on the boat and to lead watches. On my Type VII, I have nominally have an OLtzS as IWO, a LtzS as IIWO and an OStrm or StOStrm (<-both chief warrant ranks) as IIIWO. I also have another Lt or OLt asthe LI/Chief Engineer. They show in my game as "officers." On my Type II, I have a LtzS as IWO, an OStrmn as IIWO, and an OBtsmn as IIIWO, plus another officer as LI (Engineer).

For the "Petty Officers", I have tweaked things as well. In my personal game, the three "Petty Officer" ranks actually are 2 warrant ranks and one combined petty officer/chief petty officer rank:

163=Bootsmaat/Oberbootsmaat
164=Bootsmann
165=Oberbootsmann

All three of these ranks show up as "Petty Officers" in the game. The difference between a "Maat" and an "Obermaat" in my game is the experience point level. I have tweaked the rank tga so that neither maats nor obermaats display shoulderboards. They only display trade badges on their left sleeve. I have not found a way to display true maat or obermaat rank/trade badges due to limitations of the 3d engine and the way the ranks.ini and the file Rank_deco_ND.tga interact. I'm a trial and error guy and I got tired of trying. :-)

The ranks of Bootsmann and Oberbootsmann display shoulderboards which have been modified to reflect the correct amount of "pips." Unfortunately, they also display sleeve trade badges. Again, I am sure I could correct this through trial and error with the ranks.ini file, but I never got around to it.

The above three "Petty Officer" ranks occupy PO slots on my boats.

For Sailors, I have eliminated the rank "Matrose" from history and stuck with

160=Matrosengefreiter
161=Matrosenobergefreiter
162=Matrosenhauptgefreiter


I hope this helps. I am not very good at explaining, and I may have missed a step in telling you what to mod. I used to mod the SH3C config file too in reference to the ranks, but with SH3 Commander 3.1.3 it isn't necessary.

In reference to the rank decorations, I also used a personal file for a long time which replaced the Oberfähnrich z. S. shoulderboard with one for a StabsOberSteurmann (ie- I painted up a Blue/Gold shoulderboard with crossed anchors). However, me not being savvy to the 3d stuff in the ranks.ini file, the modifed shoulderboard was always skinny like the default Oberfähnrich z. S. boards.

I can try to explain better if you'd like. My current Type VIIB Crew consists of 44 men including me the skipper, so without me, 43 men display in game. 4 Officers, 15 PO's and 24 Sailors. I gotta run but I'll try to post a complete crew break-down in another thread.


Warm regards,

Gumby

[Progrocker]

JScones did a very good job with his SH3 Commander add-on. With it installed you can get a more realistic crew if you choose..


How can i turn this function on in SH3 Commander?

[Sailor Steve]

On the very first opening screen for Commander, click on 'Crew' and select 'Realistic'.

[Cheapskate]

I can try to explain better if you'd like. My current Type VIIB Crew consists of 44 men including me the skipper, so without me, 43 men display in game. 4 Officers, 15 PO's and 24 Sailors. I gotta run but I'll try to post a complete crew break-down in another thread.
Warm regards,
Gumby

Many thanks for you detailed explanation of the changes you have made to your crew.:up:
I'm with you concerning the ranks you used: Have used something similar for ages.
However I 'm getting a bit lost when trying to figure out how to make the other tweaks.
Have you given any further thought about posting the rest of them.?
Just one sample crew listing would be fine - would save me further attempts to 'reinvent the wheel'.... which is danger of turning out square at the moment! :cry:

[gum22]

Cheapskate, I'll be delighted to share everything. I actually have it up and working on my set-up, but I am playing with a heavily modded GWX2.1 at the moment.

Because of limits on my personal time, and my desire not to cause too much confusion or post bad information here, it will take me some time to answer in detail. For one thing, while I do use JSGME religiously, I have been working on this "fix" for my own personal set-up for about two years now, tweaking this and that. I need to get a firm hold on everything I've done before I can tell you how I did it.

For another thing, I am engrossed in a "radio mod" of my own (for my own use) which aims to recreate historical operational and detailed tactical traffic. What I am in the process of doing is blending Danurves superb radio log plus many of WB's superb GWX2.1 radio messages, plus hundreds of messages that I have created from scratch (based on history) plus GWX messages into a flotilla / theater based radio program that puts any player right into the campaign. This is TEDIOUS work using my own idea of proper radio "format" based on what I think a radio message should look like and discarding hundreds of radio messages, changing timers on hundreds more, and I have been at it for months. In the end, this mod will be activated by SH3 Commander and the real irony is I may be the only person who ever gets to play with it, hehehe.

On 1 August, 2008, I will be starting the GWX2.1 campaign and my tinkering with the radio, the crew, and the game will end and I will just PLAY!

So, not to hijack the thread but because of the many hours I have been plugging away at the radio messages, it has been a while since I first got my crew "organized". Let me dig around my set-up and see if I can spot *everything* I changed, and then I'll try to give you a thorough response in this thread.

warm regards,

Gumby