New to GWX and frustrated

[BasilY]

Just upgraded to GWX 2 two weeks ago and my average drop from 80-90k per trip to 20K. I encounter enough enemy shipping alright, but they are just so hard to sink.

Today I got into a convoy and make about 7 good hits on 6 merchants, ( I am not even cherry picking the big ones) NONE of them sunk (At least I am not credited), all of them blowing a lot of smoke and at least two seriously listing. Did sink 4 of the 6 escorts though. My shooting skills havn't gone useless.

(I did notice a type VIIC in the area as well, maybe he is stealing my kills.)

The previous patrol I got into a convoy, empty all 12 eels, make 10 good hits on eight ships, sinks only 3 for 12,000 GRT.

The patrol before it I run into a convoy of two ships. Large merchant and passenger cargo. Each took 3 hits to go down. In stock version, almost all ships under 3k I gaurantee sinking with 1 shot.

Plus now it took me an average of 35-50 deck gun shots to sink a merchant, it used to average about 10.

Am I missing some tricks?

My settings: 74%
Uncheck: realistic sinking time
check: dud torpedo

BTW. I also miss the little tail behind my sub on the navigation map and those of sighted ships/convoys, though inexact, give me a good visual feel of where things are going. Can someone tell me how to get that back?

[Hanomag]

Herr Kaluen,

E N H A N C E D R E A L I S M :up:

Welcome to GWX 2 ! ! :arrgh!:

[BasilY]

If I want ships to take an hour of my real time to sink, I would check the "realistic sinking time" option. If you want all ships to take hours to sink, take away that option. Even in the REAL world some ship sink quickly. HMS Barham sunk in under 5 minutes about being hit by 3 torps.

It took me 3 torps hits and 1.5 hours to sink 2000GRT passenger/cargo. And that's with
realistic sinking time option unchecked.

I wonder how long it will take a ship to sink had I choosen realistic sinking time option.

[Wartzay]

If I want ships to take an hour of my real time to sink, I would check the "realistic sinking time" option. If you want all ships to take hours to sink, take away that option. Even in the REAL world some ship sink quickly. HMS Barham sunk in under 5 minutes about being hit by 3 torps.

It took me 3 torps hits and 1.5 hours to sink 2000GRT passenger/cargo. And that's with
realistic sinking time option unchecked.

I wonder how long it will take a ship to sink had I choosen realistic sinking time option.
Where is this realistic sinking time option?
thx

[seafarer]

It's not just the sinking time setting. GWX 2.0 and 2.1 have more realistic damage model. Stock SHIII (and SHIV for that matter) are far too arcade-like - in part because of a simple (and generous) hit-point damage model.

[BasilY]

It's not just the sinking time setting. GWX 2.0 and 2.1 have more realistic damage model. Stock SHIII (and SHIV for that matter) are far too arcade-like - in part because of a simple (and generous) hit-point damage model.

That's all good.

7 torp hits on six ships (half of them under 4000GRT). And I got them at or near the fuel/engine area. I don't expect all of them to sink. But none of them?
3 torps hits to sink a 2000GRT merchant?

Like I said, in the REAL world some ships takes a long time to sink:

HMS Ark Royal sink after 16 hours by one torp hit.

Some takes a very short time. HMS Couragous (22500GRT) take 17 minutes to sink after 2 hits.


For the game to be truly realistic, some ship may take long time to sink some much shorter. That will be realistic. Making every ship took forever to sink isn't being realistic at all.

And whatis the difference between checking and unchecking the "realistic sinking time" option?

[Tim Stan Armstrong]

Mate not all ships take ages to sink, i reckon the more time you spend playing GWX 2.1 the better your understanding of sink times will be.

[Sailor Steve]

Very true: variety is the spice of life (and the reality). There are many records of ships taking several torpedoes and still taking hours to go down. And there are records of ships sinking in 30 seconds.

I haven't played enough GWX to know of the latter happens much, but I don't want to go back to the stock game having every single ship explode and sink instantly.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

It's not just the sinking time setting. GWX 2.0 and 2.1 have more realistic damage model. Stock SHIII (and SHIV for that matter) are far too arcade-like - in part because of a simple (and generous) hit-point damage model.

That's all good.

7 torp hits on six ships (half of them under 4000GRT). And I got them at or near the fuel/engine area. I don't expect all of them to sink. But none of them?
3 torps hits to sink a 2000GRT merchant?

Like I said, in the REAL world some ships takes a long time to sink:

HMS Ark Royal sink after 16 hours by one torp hit.

Some takes a very short time. HMS Couragous (22500GRT) take 17 minutes to sink after 2 hits.


For the game to be truly realistic, some ship may take long time to sink some much shorter. That will be realistic. Making every ship took forever to sink isn't being realistic at all.

And whatis the difference between checking and unchecking the "realistic sinking time" option?

<long sigh... >

At no time during the construction of the GWX ship damage/sinking models, was the 'realistic sinking' times option left un-selected. If you as a player, are leaving that option un-selected... you will get unpredictable, and pehaps even paradoxical results in-game. During the production of GWX, we were not concerned in the slightest with the effect of leaving that option un-selected. Some cursory tests were made while leaving it unchecked. However, on finding results that did not make sense, the idea of having two different damage models was quickly abandoned.

GWX was designed with the intent that players select 'realistic sinking times.'

You are flatly incorrect that most ships in GWX take hours to sink. Critical (chance-lucky) hits can cause sinkings to occur in as little as 1-3 minutes. Otherwise, a number of variables influence sinkings in GWX. Read page 85-87 of the GWX manual.

The average ship sinking in GWX will occur in under 90 minutes in most cases depending on how much damage was sustained. To be exact, sinking times will usually be anywhere from 1-90 minutes... not an average of 90 minutes.

Torpedo damage output is random. Not every hit should cause a sinking... and you must remember too that merchant ship crews also had damage control teams that might try to save their ship.

In WWII the average ship took 1.5 torpedoes to sink it. (1.5 torpedoes hitting the target and detonating to be more exact... this figure does not count torpedoes that missed.)

While I am here...

Please also note, that the special effects mods (fires, explosions, flying bodies etc.) included with GWX do not cause any damage (progressive or otherwise) AT ALL! They are simply graphic representations of the damage your weapon(s) inflicted.

[HW3]

I sank a empire freighter with one torpedo using GWX 2.1, so it can happen. It all depends on where you hit them, and if you happen to get a lucky shot. I usually always fire at least 2 torpedoes at a ship.

[Brer Rabbit]

During my current GWX career, at 80% realism, off the eastern coast of GB, I shot two eels at a med cargo. Both struck amidships. The crew cheer went up, the sunk ship icon appeared on the map, and the Cpts Log indicated credit; however after looking through the pericsope, it showed the ship, on fire and listing slightly but underway. I took the credit and ran expecting a ton of DDs to arrive on the scene.

My question is had I hung around, would I have eventually seen the ship sink, and is it normal for GWX to give credit if the engine determines that the damage was enough to cause the ship to sink?

Thanks

[Teh_Diplomat]

Get this,

I ran into an enemy taskforce in the AN13 grid... It's the HMS Nelson(32'000 Tons). Range is 2400m, 87 AOB. Four eels in my salvo, 3 meter depth setting, Fast speed.


First eel duds and sinks within 500m, at 1800m another one dies :roll:. I'm listening on hydros for the impact.... *waiting* ..... nothing, both hit and do not detonate. :damn:

[rifleman13]

About the damage model...

'Tis was my 4th patrol in a Type VIIC I was cruising along SW of the Rockall Banks and my crew sighted a lone Passenger/Cargo ship. Since it was calm seas and no escorts are around I decided use a deck gun on it.:lol:

The first shot, it exploded like I hit something explosive. Just I fired the second shot, it exploded again and my Watch Officer said, "She's going down!" I was highly excited not wasting any more rounds on that thing.:arrgh!:

Is that random, or it could be I was just lucky I hit the fuel bunkers?:hmm:

BTW, GWX rocks! Big time!:rock::|\\

[Phaedrus]

Try to stick with the convoy a little longer - The ships will eventually sink.

I would also advise keeping "Realistic Sinking Times" unchecked.
It extends the sinking time of ships far too much, and is unrealistic.


As far as the offical history of the British Navy is concerned, as well as other studies of merchant shipping during WW II: 80 - 85% of ships torpedoed between 1940-1945 sunk within 1 minute of the initial impact, with only 13% surviving for an hour or more.

Some ships certainly beat the odds and survived single, as well as multiple torpedo hits, but these were the exceptions rather than the norm.

Generally, ships that survived torpedo attacks were tankers (particularly tankers in ballast, but all tankers proved difficult to sink due to compartmentalization), and cargo ships carrying buoyant cargo such as timber or empty oil / fluid drums.


In short, keep your current settings, but try to send two torpedoes per target just to be sure.

If you insist on single torpedoes, aim your torpedo near the bow (if you are sufficiently skilled in manual targeting), or at the engine room (beneath the funnel(s) ).

Given enough time, those two methods are the most practical ways to ensure one shot kills - but I usually only pick the nicest targets and send two to each.


Regarding patrol tonnage: Be prepared for a dramatic drop in tonnage compared to SH3 Stock.
If you are using high realism settings (limited fuel, realistic reload, dud torpedoes) expect to gain 30 000 on an ideal patrol. Anything above is exceptional.

As stated in a previous reply, GWX is not really intended to be an arcade experience.

You should find that you get tonnage totals closer to realistic values.

Have fun,


Phaedrus

[UnderseaLcpl]

I would like to say that IMO the GWX team did a fantastic job of making realistic ship damage.
If you're having trouble sinking ships it's because you are unlucky or hitting the wrong place or both.
The best place for a one hit kill seems to be the bow, where it begins to taper down, but not right on the prow. If you do it correctly the torpedo blast spot should be visible on both sides of the ship.
I don't know how ship damage is coded or calculated or anything but ships with a big hole in the bow seem to plow themselves underwater in relatively short order.
Also the manual says that cargo is a factor, so if you hit a 4000-ton freighter full of lumber then yes I can see it taking 2-3 hits.
My only regret is that fires don't do damage over time. This should have been in the stock game. Whether the GWX crew was either unable to change it or didn't care to I'm not about to overlook all the fantastic features of GWX just to complain about that.

Just my two cents.


edit- tankers are another highly variable ship. For me they either take one hit or several. I wonder if GWX represents empty tankers with water ballast.

[Phaedrus]

I would like to say that IMO the GWX team did a fantastic job of making realistic ship damage.
If you're having trouble sinking ships it's because you are unlucky or hitting the wrong place or both.
........ I'm not about to overlook all the fantastic features of GWX just to complain about that.



Agreed.
If every ship exploded instantly and went to the bottom, it wouldn't be much of a game.

As far as I have read in other posts, fire damage isn't implemented because the hard coding of SH3 doesn't permit it.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I would like to say that IMO the GWX team did a fantastic job of making realistic ship damage.
If you're having trouble sinking ships it's because you are unlucky or hitting the wrong place or both.
........ I'm not about to overlook all the fantastic features of GWX just to complain about that.



Agreed.
If every ship exploded instantly and went to the bottom, it wouldn't be much of a game.

As far as I have read in other posts, fire damage isn't implemented because the hard coding of SH3 doesn't permit it.

@Pheadrus,

Concerning the selection of 'Realistic Sinking Times' you are advising GWX players incorrectly. Leaving it unselected can actually increase sinking times.

GWX was designed with the intent that players have the 'Realistic Sinking Times' selected and active.

I have lots more to say on the matter, but must leave for a real life engagement for a few hours.

Read pages 85-87 of the GWX manual.

[difool2]

Any ships you damage with one torp will eventually drop behind the convoy. Depending on sea state (if you want to use the gun) and remaining torps (if they have a lot of deck guns), after you evade the escort's counterattack just fall in behind the convoy about 20 km and mop up the damaged stragglers as you encounter them.

[Murr44]

I've left the "realistic sinking times" option checked since I started playing the game. In stock SH III I always found that ships sank far too quickly; most ships going down in about 1-3 minutes. GWX made it far more realistic in my opinion; ships sink much more slowly & don't break in half nearly as much as they do in the original game.

There's a mod that does enable the contact tails. Do a forum search for GWX Grey Contact Tails. The file says that it's for GWX 2.0 but it works fine with 2.1.

P.S. Concentrate your deck gun fire on the target's waterline or hull. This will do the most damage with the least expenditure of ammunition.

[Jimbuna]

During my current GWX career, at 80% realism, off the eastern coast of GB, I shot two eels at a med cargo. Both struck amidships. The crew cheer went up, the sunk ship icon appeared on the map, and the Cpts Log indicated credit; however after looking through the pericsope, it showed the ship, on fire and listing slightly but underway. I took the credit and ran expecting a ton of DDs to arrive on the scene.

My question is had I hung around, would I have eventually seen the ship sink, and is it normal for GWX to give credit if the engine determines that the damage was enough to cause the ship to sink?

Thanks

The answer to your first question is....Yes, you would more than likely have seen the ship sink.

For example: Let us say a ship has a number of damage points. Once that level of points has been reached, the ship is beyond saving.

In answer to your second question...It is the game engine that determines/calculates when sufficient damage has been caused. In collaboration with the GWX damage system.

[Phaedrus]

Concerning the selection of 'Realistic Sinking Times' you are advising GWX players incorrectly. Leaving it unselected can actually increase sinking times.

GWX was designed with the intent that players have the 'Realistic Sinking Times' selected and active.




I apologize if the information is incorrect, but I was basing my statements on the information provided in game in the Options menu.
Under Realistic Sinking times it states "Ships will take longer to sink".

[Sailor Steve]

On the other other hand, in the stock game 'Realistic Sinking Times' never seemed to make any difference; at least for me.

[BasilY]

About the damage model...

'Tis was my 4th patrol in a Type VIIC I was cruising along SW of the Rockall Banks and my crew sighted a lone Passenger/Cargo ship. Since it was calm seas and no escorts are around I decided use a deck gun on it.:lol:

The first shot, it exploded like I hit something explosive. Just I fired the second shot, it exploded again and my Watch Officer said, "She's going down!" I was highly excited not wasting any more rounds on that thing.:arrgh!:

Is that random, or it could be I was just lucky I hit the fuel bunkers?:hmm:

BTW, GWX rocks! Big time!:rock::|\\

Never had that kind of luck. How close are you to the target? With sea state anything more than 4 knots, and your target armed and dangerous, I rarely take down a merchant with anything less than 20 shots. I almost always substain some damagein return. The visual image of your target rarely betrays any sign that it is about to sink. So I am certainly using more shots that necesary. Lone merchant in GWX? What lone merchant?

[BasilY]

Try to stick with the convoy a little longer - The ships will eventually sink.

Phaedrus

Just curious, will a ship that will eventually sink be credited to you if you are either,

- Out of contact range with the sinking ship (I will usually get out of the escort range for a breather)
- Took the magic carpet home b4 the sinking
- Had yourself sunk by DD before the sinking...

[BasilY]

About that GWX manual... Would love to get a copy. the link provided by this website is broken.

Anyway, run last two patrols with the realistic sinking time check. Ship sinkings seem to be a bit more consistant. I think GWX should consider taking the option away since it will probably not function well. Did sink one ship (Costal Freight) with one torp fairly quickly. All other merchants seem to require 2 solid hits, and lots of time, to sink. Just wonder if the confirmation of some of those eventual sinkings will filter back to the Bdu one day...

I still want to find out how to get the direction indicator on the nav map back. Anyone know?

[BasilY]

As far as the offical history of the British Navy is concerned, as well as other studies of merchant shipping during WW II: 80 - 85% of ships torpedoed between 1940-1945 sunk within 1 minute of the initial impact, with only 13% surviving for an hour or more.
Phaedrus

As stated in a previous reply, GWX is not really intended to be an arcade experience.
Phaedrus
So it is, ships do sink quickly most of the time in the real world. Just because someone think it too much like an arcade doesn't make it any less real.


Regarding patrol tonnage: Be prepared for a dramatic drop in tonnage compared to SH3 Stock.
If you are using high realism settings (limited fuel, realistic reload, dud torpedoes) expect to gain 30 000 on an ideal patrol. Anything above is exceptional.

Phaedrus

I check all these 3 you mentioned. So my 20k patrol really wasn't that bad... Had one at 50k including a floatinh dock too.


You should find that you get tonnage totals closer to realistic values
Phaedrus
The main reasons that we have more tonnage than real Uboat captains is that their lives are actually on the line and less likely to take on unwarrented risks.

[bookworm_020]

I wonder if GWX represents empty tankers with water ballast.

Yes they do, Tankers leaving England will be harder to sink than ones heading to England. The England bound ones can still be hard to sink (personal experience speaking here!), but tend to go down esaier than the ones heading to American (as they are in ballast):up:

[Jimbuna]

About that GWX manual... Would love to get a copy. the link provided by this website is broken.



Go to the GWX website and visit the download section http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[rifleman13]

Ahhh, 600+pages of wealthy information...:rock:

A hefty manual when printed, not that I printed it of course.:roll:

Just one question, are there any references to how much Renown a ship is worth?:hmm:

[Jimbuna]

Ahhh, 600+pages of wealthy information...:rock:

A hefty manual when printed, not that I printed it of course.:roll:

Just one question, are there any references to how much Renown a ship is worth?:hmm:


I can't remember every page....have a read...and learn/find out :lol:

.....or read this post:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=878120&postcount=15

[rifleman13]

Ahhh, 600+pages of wealthy information...:rock:

A hefty manual when printed, not that I printed it of course.:roll:

Just one question, are there any references to how much Renown a ship is worth?:hmm:

I can't remember every page....have a read...and learn/find out :lol:

.....or read this post:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=878120&postcount=15

Now a chance to calculate my renown...:arrgh!:
...by long hand!:rotfl:

[Murr44]

About that GWX manual... Would love to get a copy. the link provided by this website is broken.

Anyway, run last two patrols with the realistic sinking time check. Ship sinkings seem to be a bit more consistant. I think GWX should consider taking the option away since it will probably not function well. Did sink one ship (Costal Freight) with one torp fairly quickly. All other merchants seem to require 2 solid hits, and lots of time, to sink. Just wonder if the confirmation of some of those eventual sinkings will filter back to the Bdu one day...

I still want to find out how to get the direction indicator on the nav map back. Anyone know?

Go to http://files.filefront.com/GWX20+GreyTails7z/;9279474;/fileinfo.html & you can get your contact tails back on the nav map. The file says 2.0 but it works fine with 2.1.

[Jimbuna]

Ahhh, 600+pages of wealthy information...:rock:

A hefty manual when printed, not that I printed it of course.:roll:

Just one question, are there any references to how much Renown a ship is worth?:hmm:

I can't remember every page....have a read...and learn/find out :lol:

.....or read this post:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=878120&postcount=15
Now a chance to calculate my renown...:arrgh!:
...by long hand!:rotfl:

hehehehe :lol:

[danlisa]

The GWX Manual was down for a few days due to my host conducting maintainance on their FTP server.:-?

It's back up now and the link can be used to either view the manual online (streaming) or using Right+Click Save as, downloaded directly. If you use the online streaming version, let it buffer for awhile.

[BasilY]

No longer frustrated.

Just done 5 good patrols in '43 (range from 20k to 60K), had some close calls. (Refer to my thread about being cornered by 6 DD). Just sink Aquitania with Gun Fire off Cape Town (on my way to Rangoon). I was out of torpedos, under air attack. Lucky for me her lone escort has lost steering after an attack run (weird, must have been damaged by her own Depth charge, possible?). I am surprise that she went down only after about 15-20 hits. Too bad I don't have camera mood to capture the sight up close.

Change a few things...

- Address my expectation, use 2 torps spread up front if I really want a ship sink.
- Give smaller ships (under 4000 GRT) a 5-10 minutes before hitting it again.
- Only use deck gun in waters less than 3 knot. (and never against more than 2 ships)

Will spend some time on the manual.

Thank you all, especially the GWX team

[FIREWALL]

Ships sink just fine and I play 100% realism.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll316/NO1TOPGUN/SH3Img13-6-2008_233113_703.jpg
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll316/NO1TOPGUN/SH3Img13-6-2008_233150_609.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

Ships sink just fine and I play 100% realism.
Great pictures; but at 100% how did you take them?:-?

[Tango589]

:rotfl:

[rifleman13]

Ships sink just fine and I play 100% realism. Great pictures; but at 100% how did you take them?:-?

A reasonable explanation is FIREWALL edited some files...

BUT...

WHAT FILES ARE THOSE?:hmm:

[Jimbuna]

Ships sink just fine and I play 100% realism.
Great pictures; but at 100% how did you take them?:-?

Quite easy if you tweak the settings in the CFG file ;)

[Tango589]

Rifleman13 and Jimbuna's replies stopped me laughing.

I'll get back in my box now.

:oops:

[rls669]

I wish there was a way to prevent the "state of limbo" that happens when a ship just won't sink. A few patrols back I damaged a ship with my last torpedo; it remained afloat dead in the water. I was determined to sink it because I had so much time invested -- several hours of real time being depth charged after the attack -- but weather was too bad to sink it with the deck gun.

So I stayed just out of visual range and waited. And waited. And waited. The winds stayed high so I waited some more, and the ship just sat there. For 2 bloody weeks, until the weather finally improved and I was able to put it out of its misery. Even with 4096 TC I was ready to start smashing things :p

I wouldn't wait that long again, but I wanted to see if it would indeed just float there until the end of time if I let it.

[Subtype Zero]

The weather pattern tends to stick at TC's above 512. Another one of the weather related glitches in SH3. :damn:

[Bosje]

personally I am having a great time sinking ships with gwx 2.1

I tend to aim near the guns or on the bow and I often get magazine explosions. or they go down by dipping their bow into a big roller. most large ships either sink or end up dead in the water but you have to give em some time. I find that during the cat and mouse game with the escorts, you get the odd 'she's going down!' cheer, as the sonar guy picks up on the bulkheads collapsing. stay in sonar range with the convoy for an hour or 2 and you'll see (hear) em going down

the only frustrations i have is when hitting small lone merchants with 1 torpedo, you just have to stay around em for a long time sometimes

[Jimbuna]

Rifleman13 and Jimbuna's replies stopped me laughing.

I'll get back in my box now.

:oops:

Which reply ? :hmm:

[Tango589]

Sailor SteveQuote:
Originally Posted by FIREWALL
Ships sink just fine and I play 100% realism.

Great pictures; but at 100% how did you take them?:-?

and in reply:

Quote By Rifleman13

Great pictures; but at 100% how did you take them?:-?


A reasonable explanation is FIREWALL edited some files...

BUT...

WHAT FILES ARE THOSE?:hmm:

and


Quote:
Originally posted by Jimbuna

Quite easy if you tweak the settings in the CFG file ;)


This'll teach me to poke fun at someone when I don't know diddly-poop about what I'm laughing at!

[Jimbuna]

You enjoy/join in the fun, joking and banter mate....never mind us bunch of reprobates http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif


http://imgcash4.imageshack.us/img144/8787/jugglingclownco6.gif

[rifleman13]

You enjoy/join in the fun, joking and banter mate....never mind us bunch of reprobates http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif


http://imgcash4.imageshack.us/img144/8787/jugglingclownco6.gif
Hey jimbuna, thanks, thanks a lot! This is the summary of what I am!

From Google:

Definitions of reprobate on the Web:
= reject (documents) as invalid:o
= abandon to eternal damnation; "God reprobated the unrepenting sinner":cry:
= condemn: express strong disapproval of; "We condemn the racism in South Africa"; "These ideas were reprobated":o
depraved: marked by immorality; deviating from what is considered right or proper or good; "depraved criminals"; "a perverted sense of loyalty"; "the reprobate conduct of a gambling aristocrat":roll:=
= a person without moral scruples :roll:
= Someone who pursues evil rather than good.:arrgh!:


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[Nicolas]

Talking about how much torpedoes take a ship, I just wonder, who said 'one torpedo one ship' i think is because he experienced that most of the time. If you fire at the middle of a passenger/cargo, you must fire another one 9 of 10 times, if a battleship was sunk by 1 torp. then a 2000 tons cargo... And a lot of ships behave like this. And i dont like seeing a ship stopped and afloat for 1 hour and then suddenly, "She going down", sinking suppose to be gradual, at least you must see the ship sinking very slow but sinking. Also you see ships with the bow underwater, and looks weird how the middle of the ship below water not pulling the rest of the ship down faster. And i love see ships sink in real time, anyways if the ships is dead hurt sooner or later will sink, i tweaked the sinking times. Maybe its hard do 'damage model' over hardcode that is designed to work with another one.

[seafarer]

I wish there was a way to prevent the "state of limbo" that happens when a ship just won't sink. A few patrols back I damaged a ship with my last torpedo; it remained afloat dead in the water. I was determined to sink it because I had so much time invested -- several hours of real time being depth charged after the attack -- but weather was too bad to sink it with the deck gun.

So I stayed just out of visual range and waited. And waited. And waited. The winds stayed high so I waited some more, and the ship just sat there. For 2 bloody weeks, until the weather finally improved and I was able to put it out of its misery. Even with 4096 TC I was ready to start smashing things :p

I wouldn't wait that long again, but I wanted to see if it would indeed just float there until the end of time if I let it.

Yeah, but now you can imagine how it must have felt to a real uboat commander! And remember, the software keeps our tally for us. In the real world, you needed confirmation of a sinking to get credit. A lot of US sub commanders real war total was only known well after the war, since if they did not see or clearly hear the vessel sink, it was not a kill. So if you had to run for cover after an attack, and failed to see/hear your target go down (even if you'd clearly blown the bejeesus out of it), no confirmed kill. In fact, when a dud clearly hit a target, it had to be recorded technically (for the record, as it were) as a miss, since there was no formal recognition of hits with dud fish.