RFB 1.5 not really doin it for me

[exponent8246]

Hi all.

I am an avid T.M guy but thought I would give the new RFB 1.5 a go.
It is absolutely awesome. I really feel immersed in the simulation (albiet not on 100% realism yet). Cant decide on the better version, TM or RFB.
To be honest, I'm not sure what the difference is meant to be???

Anyway, the reason for my post is this. . . . .

I have just started a new career from Pearl at the very start of the war.
Have been given a patrol area near Tokyo, decided to approach Yokosuka harbour under silent running.
I found 2 Heavy cruisers - Maya and Furutaka Class just sat there together stationary. . . . Excellent:rock: and a Destroyer also stationary a few thousand metres off the heavy cruisers position.
I sunk both cruisers straight away.
The confusing thing is that there was no distress flares fired from either cruiser and the destroyer, which was less that 1000 metres from my position, didn't budge an inch!! :down:
I am glad in a way because I came away unscathed but am also dissapointed that I could just roll up to a harbour and destroy 2 very valuable warships without any kind of repocussions!!!:down: :hmm:

Any comments guys???

[tedhealy]

Not a RFB problem really. Going into harbors in sh4 is rather unrewarding. Historically it didn't happen that much and in the game there just isn't much going on (not a lot of minefields, alert defenses, ships/planes that respond to your entry, etc.) no matter what mod you run.

[Webster]

i think its something with the game, no matter what mod or realism setting you use, sometimes they have to detect you before they respond. i have done the same as you and unless you get detected they dont have anywhere to go so they just sit there shining spotlights or whatever but not moving.

any ships in the area that are moving around when you attack will race in to start searching for you, like "tedhealy" said the game is lacking because it doesnt spawn forces to respond to your presence like it would happen in real life. things cant spawn too close together and what happens is they would have to spawn so far away that they wouldnt be close enough to be "triggered" to respond to you anyway.

[exponent8246]

tedhealy: yeah, I agree with you, it was the same with TMO and with stock before that!

WEBSTER: Again, I agree with you. Its just that if I can fire 5 screws in broad daylight with perfect visibilty, less than 1000 mtrs from a destroyer with the bubbles from my torps showing for all to see and still have time to swing around (at ahead slow, silent running) and sink the (still not moving destroyer) is a bit of a joke!!
Even on 100 percent realism, I still get the same effect??!!??

Where's the challenge??? Shame really!!

Having said that, an excellent mod. I am in awe at the amount of effort and detail included in both TMO and the new RFB! Hats off to all involved in making the excellent mods like these (including you WEBSTER)!! Class!!

[AVGWarhawk]

The mod is still in the works. Basically RFB has really concentrated on the submarines and creating the subs to be as realistic as the game will allow. The AI reaction was touched on a bit but it does need to be tweaked. I agree to that point. As far as action in the harbors, Skippers did go in and do some damage. No doubt, but, when you do that, the DD keep sleeping and do much of nothing. So yep, needs some work. RFB continues to be modded. The new add on forced some rethinking and additional work to make it compatable with the current RFB 1.4 at the time.

As a side note, I'm playing RFB with PE3 only. I did the photo shoot like you get in the stock game. Fired a torp at a sleeping DD. It under ran and the DD started blasting star shells like made then started pinging me. So, the challenge is there.

[exponent8246]

AVG: yeah, good point pal. its a work in progress. Like I said, i dont want to criticise the makers and contributers here!! I'm sure that they (including your good self) are well aware of they little glitches and snags.
I'm confident that it will be resolved in an up and coming patch.

By the way, I'm running PE3 and Environment 4.4 together. Runs absolutely great!! (you need a good rig though)!!!

[panthercules]

...
WEBSTER: Again, I agree with you. Its just that if I can fire 5 screws in broad daylight with perfect visibilty, less than 1000 mtrs from a destroyer with the bubbles from my torps showing for all to see and still have time to swing around (at ahead slow, silent running) and sink the (still not moving destroyer) is a bit of a joke!!!

Well, I'm not sure how unrealistic that is - unless the destroyer happened to have steam up and was sitting on ready for some reason even though it's sitting quietly at anchor in a presumably safe harbor, I would not expect it to be able to get cranked up and moving at all in the time it would take you to swing your sub around and fire at him - that probably took you less than 5 minutes, whereas it would take a lot longer than that to get a cold ship's engines/boilers fired up and get the ship underway. The fact that the stationary ships stayed that way doesn't strike me as at all unrealistic. I think the only unrealistic-sounding thing about that encounter may have been the absence of any other harbor patrolling ships that would have already been underway, on alert and ready to move against you once you made your presence known.

[Ducimus]

Ships that are physically docked in harbors typically don't do much except sit there. WHen i say "physically docked", im making reference to a little boolean flag that bascially says, "is this ship docked? yes or no?" If yes, the ship just sits there like a statue no matter what... nobody is home! If no, then somebody is home, and the ship sits there like a statue unless attacked. Then you'll see him pour on the coal and start moving when attacked.

What mod one is running has very little to do with this, its a simple mechanic of the game.

[Paajtor]

I had similar experiences in SH3/GWX...attacking Scapa Flow by night, all ships anchored, sank the lot, no response.....attacking Murmansk on a clear day, the only "warship" was a tugboat somewhere in the channel towards the harbor, sank at least 5 Russian warships, but no reaction, not even a plane!

[AVGWarhawk]

AVG: yeah, good point pal. its a work in progress. Like I said, i dont want to criticise the makers and contributers here!! I'm sure that they (including your good self) are well aware of they little glitches and snags.
I'm confident that it will be resolved in an up and coming patch.

By the way, I'm running PE3 and Environment 4.4 together. Runs absolutely great!! (you need a good rig though)!!!

Constructive criticism is always welcomed because sometimes we do not notice somethings. With that said, someone such as yourself sees a issue we like to know about so it can be worked on. Right now I'm just running PE3 with RFB because I want RFB working soley so that I may look for issues and of course good stuff with RFB and no influence by another mod. My personal take, I would like the AI to be kick butt good because it provides a challenge.

[exponent8246]

panthercules: I thought exactly the same thing as I was maneuvering my boat - would take an awful long time time fire up the engines on the destroyer!
By the way, there were other destroyers and aux gunboats in the distance patrolling but were too far away to have any effect. Dont think they were steaming towards me though?? Didnt hang around long enough to find out!!:lol:

I agree with the general thought thats its just a game mechanics issue.

AVG: Cranking up the enemy AI would be great for a challenge!

[AVGWarhawk]

panthercules: I thought exactly the same thing as I was maneuvering my boat - would take an awful long time time fire up the engines on the destroyer!
By the way, there were other destroyers and aux gunboats in the distance patrolling but were too far away to have any effect. Dont think they were steaming towards me though?? Didnt hang around long enough to find out!!:lol:

I agree with the general thought thats its just a game mechanics issue.

AVG: Cranking up the enemy AI would be great for a challenge!

Here is my thought on it and down the road to be added I'm sure. If you have sleepy boats bobbing around the docks, ok, they are asleep. But if a ship is blown to bits, one would figure the other ships would wake up and start firing away. Again, probably game mechanics as Duci pointed out. The harbor I was told to photo had a sleepy DD outside the enterance. I sent a torp and it came to life in fine fashion. Star shell and started searching. So, perhaps we work that angle to make harbors more challenging.

As far as cranking up the AI...Duci's bastard child named "Bungo Pete" is the one. I wish we could put in a percentage for this spawn of hell to show up. In other words, for large convoys say 10% this abomination will show up in that convoy. Lessen the chances in smaller convoys. Bungo is tough but can be beaten, however, your patrol will probably be over at that point because of the beating in return. The damn thing follows you like you have a string from your stern to his bow. :o

[gg.]

I think RFB gives too many problems with torpedoes.
I know that in early war torpedoes were the real problem of US Silent Service, but in late 1942 I Fired 6 torpedoes against a lonely merchant from 1000 m. and no one hit the target (they went to deep or on circular course)...
Is there anyone with the same problem?:damn:

[CCIP]

I think RFB gives too many problems with torpedoes.
I know that in early war torpedoes were the real problem of US Silent Service, but in late 1942 I Fired 6 torpedoes against a lonely merchant from 1000 m. and no one hit the target (they went to deep or on circular course)...
Is there anyone with the same problem?:damn:

Late 1942 is very early in the war for the US. The torpedo problems you're referring to were not addressed until late 1943, so this is historically accurate.

[gg.]

I think RFB gives too many problems with torpedoes.
I know that in early war torpedoes were the real problem of US Silent Service, but in late 1942 I Fired 6 torpedoes against a lonely merchant from 1000 m. and no one hit the target (they went to deep or on circular course)...
Is there anyone with the same problem?:damn:

Late 1942 is very early in the war for the US. The torpedo problems you're referring to were not addressed until late 1943, so this is historically accurate.

OK, you're right, but i think all the six torpedoes is a bit too much...

[Fincuan]

You think six failed torpedoes is too much? Read this:


Dan Daspit (in Tinosa) carefully documented his efforts to sink 19,000 ton whale factory tanker Tonan Maru III on 24 July 1943. He fired four torpedoes from 4,000 yards (3600m); two hit stopping the target dead in the water. Daspit immediately fired another two; these hit as well. With no enemy anti-submarine combatants in sight, Daspit then took time to carefully maneuver into a textbook firing position, 875 yards (800m) square off the target's beam, where he fired nine more Mark XIVs and observed all with his periscope (despite the Japanese firing at it). All were duds. Daspit, suspicious by now he was working with a faulty production run of Mark XIVs, saved his last remaining torpedo to be analyzed by experts back at base. Nothing out of the ordinary was found.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo

[exponent8246]

Totally agree AVG! Lets have a bit of Bungo Pete every now and then!!

The duds are a little annoying to be honest. I fired 6 at a T3 tanker, all duds. Couldnt reload because of silent running evading escorts! Wouldve been a nice big kill!
Frustrated like mad at the time but at least I survived to carry on!

Excellent story Fincuan, Couldnt imagine being on a sub in wartime only to find I had 9 duds!! Gutted!

[AVGWarhawk]

The duds frustrated the living hell out of the skippers. Just as RFB will. They were that bad in the beginning. So much so skippers were modifying the contact pin against the order to use the magnetic exploder. That on top of under runners and bad gyros. In reality, you had three ways for the darn thing not to work and more often then not, most of the torpedoes suffered one of the three.

[exponent8246]

The thing is, with the early steam torps, you kinda give your position away due to the bubbles on the surface (especially in daylight) and if the lookouts are on the ball they could raise the alarm in time (probably not in time to evade the torps but alert any allied ships) and youve got problems!
And if the torp/s ends up being a dud/s it wouldve put the crews lives at risk for no gain whatsoever!!

It must have been the bain of the skippers careers!

[Ducimus]

RE Bungo pete outside of his little cage:

If you look at what sensors he's using, trust me when i say, you do not want him escorting convoys. It would make the altantic look like a kiddie pool. Edit: As an aside ,ever since i made him, i stopped going to the Bungo Suido. I used to hang out there all the time, now, i just avoid the place. I made him, and even i wont go there. Is he evadable? Yes, but its a PITA once he latchs on to you.

[AVGWarhawk]

My wish Duci and if possible, have Bungo appear in a convoy based on a percentage. Again, if possible. Something at say 1% chance? As strange as it sounds, it is fun and a challenge to have your butt handed to you. Go skulking away to lick you wounds.

[LukeFF]

OK, you're right, but i think all the six torpedoes is a bit too much...
Not going to change. The reality was just as bad (and worse) for the real skippers. One boat came back from patrol after all 21 of its torpedoes failed to explode.

[exponent8246]

I'm with AVG all the way here! A percentage chance of a butt kicking off Bungo wouldnt be so bad!!:yep:

[Captain Dave]

In 1.4 I've attacked a few harbors. None of the ships moved, but if I got too close, those with guns would start firing. Diving to 30-35 ft. or backing out would usually quiet things down.

[exponent8246]

Yeah, I experienced that too in 1.4. Would also hear the alarms going off on the targetted ships!
I would love to see (during a night attack on a harbour), a few seconds after the first torp hit, all the lights on the harbour illuminate the sea and a lot of various coloured distress flares going off from the harbour itself (aswell as the ships)!!

That would look awesome as well as crank up the tension on the sub!:up:

[gg.]

OK, you're right, but i think all the six torpedoes is a bit too much...
Not going to change. The reality was just as bad (and worse) for the real skippers. One boat came back from patrol after all 21 of its torpedoes failed to explode.

OK you're right, but it's frustrating...
Probably an option to regulate the percentage of duds could help (not just "flawless torpedoes")...

[Captain Dave]

That would be neat, like general chaos.:eek:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Seems Real Fleet Boat is living up to it's name ^^^, nice :up:


RDP

[kylesplanet]

My wish Duci and if possible, have Bungo appear in a convoy based on a percentage. Again, if possible. Something at say 1% chance? As strange as it sounds, it is fun and a challenge to have your butt handed to you. Go skulking away to lick you wounds.

I don't think I want any of that. I'm 0-4 against that evil creature.:x