can you remove the AA gun crosshairs

[Webster]

removing the crosshairs center circle would let you see what you were shooting at.

can just the small center be removed so you have a clear view when aiming?

i realize most people are into realism and never stay surfaced but i sometimes like the chalenge of surface combat with planes. but in order to shoot something you need to see it first.

as a footnote i dont have photo shop or anything to do photo editing, all i have is paintshop so i can only do tga files.

[panthercules]

removing the crosshairs center circle would let you see what you were shooting at.

can just the small center be removed so you have a clear view when aiming?

i realize most people are into realism and never stay surfaced but i sometimes like the chalenge of surface combat with planes. but in order to shoot something you need to see it first.

as a footnote i dont have photo shop or anything to do photo editing, all i have is paintshop so i can only do tga files.'

What boat and AA gun are you using that you want to remove the sight for? There were some (at the time unintended) side effects of the fix for the GATO's early war "bathtub" blockage problem that is discussed in this thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=632226#post632226 ) that involved clipping the AA gun sight out of the picture under certain circumstances. I'm not sure, but it might be possible to play around with those same clipping distance parameters that fixed the "bathtub" problem such that the AA gun sight could be made to disappear from view.

I still have some hodgepodge of 1.4 and old mods installed 'cause I haven't had any time to download and fix up my install for 1.5, but if you want to let me know what boat/gun combo you're most interested in I may be able to try something real quick to see if this might work.

[Webster]

What boat and AA gun are you using that you want to remove the sight for? There were some (at the time unintended) side effects of the fix for the GATO's early war "bathtub" blockage problem that is discussed in this thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=632226#post632226 ) that involved clipping the AA gun sight out of the picture under certain circumstances. I'm not sure, but it might be possible to play around with those same clipping distance parameters that fixed the "bathtub" problem such that the AA gun sight could be made to disappear from view.

I still have some hodgepodge of 1.4 and old mods installed 'cause I haven't had any time to download and fix up my install for 1.5, but if you want to let me know what boat/gun combo you're most interested in I may be able to try something real quick to see if this might work.

well im just getting into UBM v1.5 myself and the porpoise is the boat i start with but i take what they give me in the american career mode.

its like looking through a satelite dish on the AA gun trying to shoot planes you can barely see as it is.

i realise im not giving you much to go on so let me show you a screen shot: http://gallery.filefront.com/keakar/112850/

i would like to loose the very center circles crosshair so i can see through the hole and follow where my rounds are going.

[Webster]

What boat and AA gun are you using that you want to remove the sight for?

I still have some hodgepodge of 1.4 and old mods installed 'cause I haven't had any time to download and fix up my install for 1.5, but if you want to let me know what boat/gun combo you're most interested in I may be able to try something real quick to see if this might work.

the picture i posted is from the porpoise boat but its the same thing for the tambor and gar boats because they all use the single 20mm AA gun.

not sure about other boats or guns because im just getting started with campaigns and havent seen all the upgrades you get.

[akdavis]

That is what the foresight on an Oerlikon 20mm cannon looked like. If the "crosshairs" are obscuring the aircraft, then you are firing beyond effective range of the weapon.

Now, the sim may place our eye position a bit too close to the sight with the single mount 20mm/70, but the sight picture is pretty much correct, except the rear "ring sight" has been excluded (but this is not needed as your line of sight is always aligned with the barrel of the gun, and would just serve to clutter the picture up more).

Some mounts on surface ships late in the war employed a "Mark 14" reflector lead-computing sight, but this was not suited to a submarine "wet" mount.

http://www.de220.com/Armament/20mm/20mm%20Pictures/20mm-1-Mk10Mnt.jpg

http://www.de220.com/Armament/20mm/20mm%20Pictures/20mm%20rear-.jpg

http://www.de220.com/Armament/20mm/20mm%20Pictures/20mm%20gunner.jpg

[Webster]

That is what the foresight on an Oerlikon 20mm cannon looked like. If the "crosshairs" are obscuring the aircraft, then you are firing beyond effective range of the weapon.

Now, the sim may place our eye position a bit too close to the sight with the single mount 20mm/70, but the sight picture is pretty much correct, except the rear "ring sight" has been excluded (but this is not needed as your line of sight is always aligned with the barrel of the gun, and would just serve to clutter the picture up more).

Some mounts on surface ships late in the war employed a "Mark 14" reflector lead-computing sight, but this was not suited to a submarine "wet" mount.

well how can you back yourself up so your nose isnt touching the forsight?

IMO the zoomed in view should be set to what the normal sized view is now and the normal sized view should be half the size that it is now.

[akdavis]

I would assume the camera position could be changed, but that is not something I really know how to do. I'll take a look, nonetheless.

[panthercules]

That is what the foresight on an Oerlikon 20mm cannon looked like. If the "crosshairs" are obscuring the aircraft, then you are firing beyond effective range of the weapon.

Now, the sim may place our eye position a bit too close to the sight with the single mount 20mm/70, but the sight picture is pretty much correct, except the rear "ring sight" has been excluded (but this is not needed as your line of sight is always aligned with the barrel of the gun, and would just serve to clutter the picture up more).

Some mounts on surface ships late in the war employed a "Mark 14" reflector lead-computing sight, but this was not suited to a submarine "wet" mount.

http://www.de220.com/Armament/20mm/20mm%20Pictures/20mm-1-Mk10Mnt.jpg

http://www.de220.com/Armament/20mm/20mm%20Pictures/20mm%20rear-.jpg

http://www.de220.com/Armament/20mm/20mm%20Pictures/20mm%20gunner.jpg

I love that 2nd picture - it looks like something you maybe took while on vacation or something - is that from some ship that's near your current location or is that an old photo? If it's nearby, any chance you could go back and get a shot with the camera up against the rear iron sight ring, to get a real idea of what the gunner would really see from that position? That would really help with figuring out whether the camera view in normal and zoomed would be better if they were changed (assuming they can be, which I suspect they can).

I tried to check into the camera and clipping stuff, but for some reason my current setup runs like a slide show on my new 1920x1200 monitor, plus the old 1.4 RFB version I still have loaded has apparently removed all the airplanes from the training school missions so I didn't have anything to fire at anyway :cry:

As you indicated in the above response, I suspect that if the sight is causing a problem it's because he's firing when the planes are too far away, but I couldn't test that theory given the problems with my setup mentioned above. I'll take another look at this too once I sort out my fps issue and drop back to stock to get my planes back for testing.

[akdavis]

Here is a quick and dirty version that puts the camera at the same distance as the twin mount. I don't see any reason why they should be at different distances, but I will not claim this to be the correct/real distance.

http://files.filefront.com/20mm+single+farsightrar/;10295692;/fileinfo.html

The picture, from the USS Kidd, is not mine, but I did walk her decks a few years ago. Thankfully I no longer a have reason to make the 8-hour drive to New Orleans, so I don't know when I'll see her again. I'm not sure if such picture would be all that helpful. Camera lenses and eye balls Mark 1 don't see the world the same way

[panthercules]

I'm not sure if such picture would be all that helpful. Camera lenses and eye balls Mark 1 don't see the world the same way.

True, but if you happen to have the right lens (I can't remember exactly what type that is - maybe somewhere between 35mm and 50mm, but I'm sure there are other factors involved as well - been a long time since I messed with camera/lens mechanics theory) you can get a pretty good approximation.

Unfortunately, I'm about 6-8 hours away from the nearest ships that are likely to still have one of these guns as well, so I can't really test my theory very easily. We do still have a Naval Air Station nearby that has a bunch of static planes and just might have some ordnance examples too - might have to try driving by there over the weekend and seeing if I can locate one.

I did get back to stock and decent fps, but the only boat I could get in the stock training school mission was a 1943 Porpoise with the twin mount, so I couldn't really play with the single gun mount Webster was first dealing with. Will have to try something else for that. I did confirm my suspicions though - at least with the twin mount, if the planes are small enough to make the sight size troublesome, they're definitely too far away to be shooting at ("don't fire till you see the whites of their eyes" - oh yeah, and "Lead, Dammit, Lead" - I wonder if someone could do a skin with that stenciled on the bulkhead near the AA gun? I remember seeing that on some of the old photos and on some of the old ships I visited years ago)

[akdavis]

I'm not sure if such picture would be all that helpful. Camera lenses and eye balls Mark 1 don't see the world the same way.

True, but if you happen to have the right lens (I can't remember exactly what type that is - maybe somewhere between 35mm and 50mm, but I'm sure there are other factors involved as well - been a long time since I messed with camera/lens mechanics theory) you can get a pretty good approximation.

A 50mm lense is a good approximation of normal field of view.

[Webster]

if the planes are small enough to make the sight size troublesome, they're definitely too far away to be shooting at ("don't fire till you see the whites of their eyes" - oh yeah, and "Lead, Dammit, Lead" - I wonder if someone could do a skin with that stenciled on the bulkhead near the AA gun? I remember seeing that on some of the old photos and on some of the old ships I visited years ago)

well im shooting as they begin their dive so they should not be out of range at that point but its hard to lead if you cant follow your tracers because the sight blocks your view of them lol.

i will try the file akdavis uploaded for me, i agree with him that the guns being set differently is odd. maybe they borked the single with a typo on the distance.

[Webster]

Here is a quick and dirty version that puts the camera at the same distance as the twin mount. I don't see any reason why they should be at different distances, but I will not claim this to be the correct/real distance.

http://files.filefront.com/20mm+single+farsightrar/;10295692;/fileinfo.html


well it looked great at first but i backed up a little too much, shooting at 45 degree angle up and 90 degrees out to the side the tub rail pops up in front of me so i need to move up a wee little bit to be perfect but it is much easier to see while i shoot and doesnt feel like my nose is pressed against the sight.

you have a mod now, you can call it: akdavis_20mm_single_farsight_fix :up:

take a look at the pictures to see the difference that it made and how to tub rail pops up: http://gallery.filefront.com/keakar/ (pics of how stock view looks is on page 2)

you can even see the rear sight now, it is in much better perspective. i just have to figure out the right setting now

by the way, these are not clipped pics they are the full size full screen views as i can see it on a 22" monitor.

thanks for the help guys, im on the right track now.

EDIT: wow this is my #600 post! i wonder if i will win something :hmm: