Deck gun rate of fire..

[thumper]

I am currently runnung RFB 1.4 and the rate of fire for the deck gun is one round every 40 seconds, are their any mods out there to change that to one round every10 seconds or faster??

[akdavis]

You mean a mod to make a realism mod less realistic? :P

[thumper]

If that is what it takes to increase the rate of fire,...YES.

[W4lt3r]

Actually that loading time is way off for 4" deck gun, wich usually took 3-6 seconds to reload, depending on the experience of the crew. While the 40 second reload guns were bolted on the Yamato cannons, thanks to the heavy shell weight.

40 second reload for a single barreled small cannon.. way off :roll:

[Snaptrap]

I am currently runnung RFB 1.4 and the rate of fire for the deck gun is one round every 40 seconds, are their any mods out there to change that to one round every10 seconds or faster??

My Silent Fire mod adds all the goodness for the enhanced experience. How about 5rps for deck guns? The only problem is that it adds too much for some. I mean, realistically a sub could not single handedly sink and entire task force of 12+ warships and even more impossible is doing it without a single scratch. The mod is a great training tool for those trying to learn the game minus the headaches.

[Nisgeis]

40 second reload for a single barreled small cannon.. way off :roll:

Hi W4lt3r, rate of fire and reload time are two different things. The RFB team have attempted to impart the flavour of a gun battle, by setting the reload rate high to simulate all the problems you'd have at sea.

I did take a brief look into the firing rates at sea, but it involved going through patrol reports looking for timed actions and wasn't fun and didn't reveal many good pieces of info. If you have any info about firing rates at sea during battle, I'd be interested to read it.

[AlmightyTallest]

Well, from Silent Victory by Clay Blair Jr.

There were some early 1942 actions with Seadragon I was reading about in this book where they used the 3 inch deck guns and fired something like 19 rounds in 18 minutes. So I'm guessing depending on the sea state, the tactical situation, carrying heavy ammunition on a deck that was recently underwater, it took some time to load, then aim and finally fire the weapon and prepare it for another round.

I've read about the 5" deck guns reaching 15 rounds per minute though on fleet boats, haven't tried them yet in the RFB campaign to see if they can fire that fast.

[Sailor Steve]

40 second reload for a single barreled small cannon.. way off :roll:

Hi W4lt3r, rate of fire and reload time are two different things. The RFB team have attempted to impart the flavour of a gun battle, by setting the reload rate high to simulate all the problems you'd have at sea.

I did take a brief look into the firing rates at sea, but it involved going through patrol reports looking for timed actions and wasn't fun and didn't reveal many good pieces of info. If you have any info about firing rates at sea during battle, I'd be interested to read it.
Exactly. We've been having this discussion for almost three years - ever since Beery did his original Real U-Boat mod. It's one thing to disagree; it's another entirely to just step in and preach: "Way off." The fact is that Beery did a huge amount of research into actual rates of fire in battle, and found that on average the rates obtained were much slower that what was achieved in test conditions. Life at sea is seldom perfect. The the listed rates of fire don't take into account the fact that in even the slightest sea things get slippery very quickly. They don't take into account that even if the gun gets loaded that rapidly, you have to wait and shoot with the roll of the boat or you'll miss every single time.

Contrary to being "way off", RFB's rates of fire are pretty good for actual combat conditions.

[Rockin Robbins]

I have an idea! Set the reload at any speed you want and then load up the New Real Deck Gun, sorry, thought the mod was LukeFF's but it turns out that i don't know whose mod it is. Now the gun rolls with the boat. Have fun getting off a round every ten seconds if you wish, you just won't hit anything.:up: Twenty seconds per halfway aimed shot is pretty decent speed. It IS a great way to get seasick though.

[akdavis]

I have an idea! Set the reload at any speed you want and then load up the New Real Deck Gun, sorry, thought the mod was LukeFF's but it turns out that i don't know whose mod it is. Now the gun rolls with the boat. Have fun getting off a round every ten seconds if you wish, you just won't hit anything.:up: Twenty seconds per halfway aimed shot is pretty decent speed.

Holy crap! Someone figured out how to destabilize the deck gun? AA too?

[Webster]

you want to open the shell.sim and the shells.zon files (not sure which it is) they contain the guns range rate of fire and shell strength. i just use the mini tweaker for my sh4 upgraded deck gun mod and set it to fire 1 round a second so it actually fires every 1-2 seconds depending on conditions. i think i should have made it 2 seconds so it would fire about every 2-3 seconds but that will have to wait until i feel like redoing it when i have time to test it out.

[Snaptrap]

you want to open the shell.sim and the shells.zon files (not sure which it is) they contain the guns range rate of fire and shell strength. i just use the mini tweaker for my sh4 upgraded deck gun mod and set it to fire 1 round a second so it actually fires every 1-2 seconds depending on conditions. i think i should have made it 2 seconds so it would fire about every 2-3 seconds but that will have to wait until i feel like redoing it when i have time to test it out.

No, Web. The shell files only contain their damage rates(zon) and detonation distances(sim). To change the gun fire rates and ranges, you'll need to go into the Data>Library>SubParts and choose a sim file of the gun you wish to modify. The Silent 3ditor works best for this unless you wish to do the tedious hex work. Also, keep in mind that though the guns will be capable at firing at those new distances, the CrewAI file will also need to be modified for them to attack at the new ranges, otherwise nothing is affected. The greater the range, the less accurate they are too. That can be fixed as well. I never bother exceeding 50,000 meters (the detonation distances) to wave the bother with editing the Shell.sim file.

The MiniTweaker works great too, though it is missing tweak files for certain shell types. I was working on new tweak files for v1.5 but I scrapped them when I learned about the editor.

[Webster]

No, Web. The shell files only contain their damage rates(zon) and detonation distances(sim). To change the gun fire rates and ranges, you'll need to go into the Data>Library>SubParts and choose a sim file of the gun you wish to modify.

if you would have looked you would see that is where the tweak file directs the tweaker to open the file. the mini tweaker opens the correct shells.zon but for the shells.sim it is seperate for each individual gun so depending on what gun you wish to change. when the sim was rewritten for sh4 it was done one gun at a time and nobody bothered to put it all into one tweak file like it was for sh3.

[Rockin Robbins]

I have an idea! Set the reload at any speed you want and then load up the New Real Deck Gun, sorry, thought the mod was LukeFF's but it turns out that i don't know whose mod it is. Now the gun rolls with the boat. Have fun getting off a round every ten seconds if you wish, you just won't hit anything.:up: Twenty seconds per halfway aimed shot is pretty decent speed.
Holy crap! Someone figured out how to destabilize the deck gun? AA too?
Yeah, man. And it's great! I keep a copy on Filefront (http://files.filefront.com/New+Real+Deck+Gun7z/;10203663;/fileinfo.html). New Real Deck Gun. It rocks!!! Now you can set reload speed to whatever fantasy number you want. It doesn't matter!:up:

[Snaptrap]

if you would have looked you would see that is where the tweak file directs the tweaker to open the file. the mini tweaker opens the correct shells.zon and shells.sim depending on what you wish to change.

Indeed, but those files are missing hex links. Each tweak file includes information to locate the corresponding hex line within each zon and sim file. Unfortunately they don't contain all the information needed to edit all the settings within each zon and sim file. You'll notice this when you discover that the shells to the AA guns are missing from the Shells.zon tweaker file. As you can see, only three of the deck gun types are included with that file. If you want, I can add the paths to unclude all the guns for v1.4???

Version=SH4 v1.1
Path=\Data\Library\Shells.zon
[1]
DropDownName=Deck Gun 3,50 Caliber
Search,MinEF,14,Single,>2,AP MinEF
Search,MaxEF,14,Single,>2,AP MaxEF
Search,MinRadius,14,Single,>2,AP Min Radius
Search,MaxRadius,14,Single,>2,AP Max Radius
Search,MinEF,15,Single,>2,HE MinEF
Search,MaxEF,15,Single,>2,HE MaxEF
Search,MinRadius,15,Single,>2,HE MinRadius
Search,MaxRadius,15,Single,>2,HE MaxRadius
[2]
DropDownName=Deck Gun 4,50 Caliber
Search,MinEF,48,Single,>2,AP MinEF
Search,MaxEF,48,Single,>2,AP MaxEF
Search,MinRadius,48,Single,>2,AP Min Radius
Search,MaxRadius,48,Single,>2,AP Max Radius
Search,MinEF,49,Single,>2,HE MinEF
Search,MaxEF,49,Single,>2,HE MaxEF
Search,MinRadius,49,Single,>2,HE MinRadius
Search,MaxRadius,49,Single,>2,HE MaxRadius
[3]
DropDownName=Deck Gun 5,25 Caliber
Search,MinEF,30,Single,>2,AP MinEF
Search,MaxEF,30,Single,>2,AP MaxEF
Search,MinRadius,32,Single,>2,AP Min Radius
Search,MaxRadius,32,Single,>2,AP Max Radius
Search,MinEF,31,Single,>2,HE MinEF
Search,MaxEF,31,Single,>2,HE MaxEF
Search,MinRadius,31,Single,>2,HE MinRadius
Search,MaxRadius,31,Single,>2,HE MaxRadius

[Webster]

these are the tweak files im talking about:

Deck_Gun_3_50.sim

Version=SH4 v1.4
//This tweak file was created by Nvdrifter
// Path to the file we are changing.
Path=\Data\Library\USSubParts\Deck_Gun_3_50.sim

[1]
DropDownName=Shell Storage Amounts
search,amount,1,integer,>2,AP (Armor Piercing)
search,amount,2,integer,>2,HE (High Explosive)
absolute,integer,425,AA (Anti-Aircraft)
absolute,integer,44D,SS (Star Shell)
[2]
DropDownName=Shell Specs
absolute,single,318,Shell Speed
absolute,integer,352,Clip Size
absolute,single,366,Reload Time
absolute,single,38E,Maximum Range
absolute,single,39C,Angle
absolute,single,480,Travel Tolerance
absolute,single,497,Elevation Tolerance
[3]
DropDownName=Gun Barrel Movement and Recoil
absolute,single,251,Traverse Min Angle
absolute,single,25D,Traverse Max Angle
absolute,single,2C6,Traverse Speed
absolute,single,2AC,Elevation Min Angle
absolute,single,2B8,Elevation Max Angle
absolute,single,26B,Elevation Speed
absolute,single,32C,Recoil Time
absolute,single,340,Recoil Distance

Deck_gun_4_50.sim

Version=SH4 v1.4
//This tweak file was created by Nvdrifter
// Path to the file we are changing.
Path=\Data\Library\USSubParts\Deck_Gun_4_50.sim

[1]
DropDownName=Shell Storage Amounts
search,amount,1,integer,>2,AP (Armor Piercing)
search,amount,2,integer,>2,HE (High Explosive)
absolute,integer,437,AA (Anti-Aircraft)
absolute,integer,45F,SS (Star Shell)
[2]
DropDownName=Shell Specs
absolute,single,32A,Shell Speed
absolute,integer,364,Clip Size
absolute,single,378,Reload Time
absolute,single,3A0,Maximum Range
absolute,single,3AE,Angle
absolute,single,492,Travel Tolerance
absolute,single,4A9,Elevation Tolerance
[3]
DropDownName=Gun Barrel Movement and Recoil
absolute,single,263,Traverse Min
absolute,single,26f,Traverse Max
absolute,single,27D,Traverse Speed
absolute,single,2BE,Elevation Min
absolute,single,2CA,Elevation Max
absolute,single,2D8,Elevation Speed
absolute,single,33E,Recoil Time
absolute,single,352,Recoil Distance

Deck_Gun_5_25.sim

Version=SH4 v1.4
//This tweak file was created by Nvdrifter
// Path to the file we are changing.
Path=\Data\Library\USSubParts\Deck_Gun_4_50.sim
//This tweak file was created by Nvdrifter
// Path to the file we are changing.
Path=\Data\Library\USSubParts\Deck_Gun_5_25.sim

[1]
DropDownName=Shell Storage Amounts
search,amount,1,integer,>2,AP (Armor Piercing)
search,amount,2,integer,>2,HE (High Explosive)
absolute,integer,425,AA (Anti-Aircraft)
absolute,integer,44D,SS (Star Shell)
[2]
DropDownName=Shell Specs
absolute,single,318,Shell Speed
absolute,integer,352,Clip Size
absolute,single,366,Reload Time
absolute,single,38E,Maximum Range
absolute,single,39C,Angle
absolute,single,480,Travel Tolerance
absolute,single,497,Elevation Tolerance
[3]
DropDownName=Gun Barrel Movement
absolute,single,251,Traverse Min
absolute,single,25D,Traverse Max
absolute,single,26B,Traverse Speed
absolute,single,2AC,Elevation Min
absolute,single,2B8,Elevation Max
absolute,single,2C6,Elevation Speed

[Webster]

i tried to keep all the latest tweak files together for anyone needing them but with the silent 3ditor being the new tool of choice i havent looked at anything for a long time.

i downloaded the 3ditor when it first came out but never learned how to use it. (i probably dont even have the latest version anymore lol)

just havent found free time to mod anything anymore. barely find time to even play.

maybe i need to update all my tweak files, or does anyone even use them anymore?

[Snaptrap]

You'll notice that in the files you posted the the recoil times and distances are missing from the 5/25. This is just like the damage information missing from the AA shells.

When I used the MiniTweaker, the first thing I seen is that the tweaker files used for it were missing paths. You can have the file for the item, but without all the paths inlcuded for each file, the Tweaker is restricted to what is indicated in the tweaker file, not the actual zon or sim file.

The editor is quite easy to use after a bit of browsing around. The thing is that for some of the stuff you need to have a bit of understanding with hex editing in order to edit certain file because there is no item name for everything. Parent id's is the best way to link guns with their ammo types and the same applies to torpedoes damage capabilities and their performances. Besides some lack of understanding with naval technologies in relations to the terms used in the files, I've pretty much mastered it. I can help you out with any editing should you want to do something with a mod.