[REQ]Submarines on the surface dont sink

[AOTD_MadMax]

Hello Captains , hello modders,

i need help with an big problem.

We from the AOTD-Clan are planning an SH4-Onlinecampaign and we got only one big problem with the destroyed subs on the surface.

I wanne describe it the best i can.

In SH3 when a sub was destroyed on the surface by bombs ore guns, the sub sinks and the "target" for the enemys is gone.:up:

In SH4 the sub wont sink so it is all the time a target for the japs and all destroyers and planes shoot the rest of the game to this destroyed sub and all other boats can do their work without any penetration of the enemy. :down:
In an onlinegame thats the worst case !:damn:

Did anybody know how to fix this stupid UBI-BUG ore could it be fixed ore is it hard coded ??

Greets

AOTD|MadMax

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

I think it's hard coded. They take tremondous damage with large gaping holes but don't sink. They don't move very far with waypoints either in the mission editor.

[Observer]

It's actually a function of the zone floatability setting in the zones.cfg combined with the buoyancy in the ballast tanks. It's possible to make the surfaced sub sink, but it has severe consequences on submerged operation with flooding.

[Ducimus]

In the case of AI subs, its a simple issue of changing the zone type to another in the zones.cfg that has higher floatability ratings.

In the case of Player subs..... I don't know. You could probably try adjusting the flotiablity and/or floodrates in the zones.cfg for player subs. If you'll recall, iin the earliest days of SH4 we had a bit of a flooding problem and player subs would most defiantly sink (like a rock) if a bulkhead was punctured.

[Ducimus]

combined with the buoyancy in the ballast tanks.

Where is this boyuancy defined at? Im assuming your not talking about a zones.cfg item or floodrate in a sim file. (edit: or is this an abstraction of displacement and/or mass in the sim file?)

[Webster]

Hello Captains , hello modders,

i need help with an big problem.

We from the AOTD-Clan are planning an SH4-Onlinecampaign and we got only one big problem with the destroyed subs on the surface.

I wanne describe it the best i can.

In SH3 when a sub was destroyed on the surface by bombs ore guns, the sub sinks and the "target" for the enemys is gone.:up:

In SH4 the sub wont sink so it is all the time a target for the japs and all destroyers and planes shoot the rest of the game to this destroyed sub and all other boats can do their work without any penetration of the enemy. :down:
In an onlinegame thats the worst case !:damn:

Did anybody know how to fix this stupid UBI-BUG ore could it be fixed ore is it hard coded ??

Greets

AOTD|MadMax

just to be clear:

the subs that wont sink, are they AI subs or human controled player subs?

[AOTD_MadMax]

just to be clear:

the subs that wont sink, are they AI subs or human controled player subs?

This are human controled subs.

Hmm i think i have to do over 100000 tests to fix this crazy probelm wich make multiplayersessions unplayable.

If your sub was hit by depthcharges in the submerged mode , the sub will sink but not when it got destroyed on the surface. :damn:

UBi forever ...............................

Greets

Maddy

[Observer]

combined with the buoyancy in the ballast tanks.
Where is this boyuancy defined at? Im assuming your not talking about a zones.cfg item or floodrate in a sim file. (edit: or is this an abstraction of displacement and/or mass in the sim file?)
I'll have to look to be honest as it's been too long since I last investigated this feature. DTB and I looked at it a long time ago when we were trying to make the anti-humming bird mod from SH3 work with SH4.

If I recall correctly, it's a bit of an abstraction tied, ironically, to the ballast tank flood speed and not necessarily the mass in the sim file. In fact, I've not seen any real effect from mass in the sim file in SH4. I'm not sure how or what changed exactly, but adjusting the mass properly in SH3 could result in positive buoyancy. Not so much for SH4.

[tater]

AI subs don't sink, either.

[Ducimus]

If I recall correctly, it's a bit of an abstraction tied, ironically, to the ballast tank flood speed and not necessarily the mass in the sim file.

Ahh!!! I wondered. In TM ive had this problem with subs unable to maintain trim at extreme depths. (A Balao or tench below 600 feet). Ive had my suspicions but never fully investigated it. Previously in order to speed up dive speed, i simply upped the MBT_Flood rate. As opposed to later on, i did a combination of things with drag, FB balances and such, as inspired by SWDW's work on the same. I dont recall if this inablity to maintain trim occured before, or after the 2nd dive speed modding i did in TM, but i do recall that by relying on MBT_Floodrate alone, one had to use ridiciously large numbers. Say on the order of 30 to 40,000!!! Where as in SH3 a type7 had a floodrate of 9,000 and a type 9 a floodrate of 7,000. So i beleive that something is inheirantly different in the computations the game is doing internallly.


In fact, I've not seen any real effect from mass in the sim file in SH4. I'm not sure how or what changed exactly, but adjusting the mass properly in SH3 could result in positive buoyancy. Not so much for SH4.

yeah ive played with this as well. I have the distinct impression that the positive boyancy model was dead on arrival with SH4. Im not sure what the deal is except that the game seems to be handling certain variables at a different range scale then it did in SH3.

[AOTD_MadMax]

For what is the "SpecialAbilities" controler standing in the sim-file of the the boats ?

SH3 Boats didnt got this controler !

Maddy

[Kamikaze Krazy]

AI subs don't sink, either. -tater
I strongly agree with you sir. I find it very annoying considering that the game has renown for the Midget sub and the Sent-toku sub. I did some research into the Sent-toku and I found out that it is about 6,500 tons and has an operational range of about 35,000 miles.:o

:oops: Anyway, I have a renown PDF that states that the Sent-toku has 400 points while the Midget has 100 points. I tried to sink a Sen-toku sub with 4 torps... and it didn't sink!:down::nope: I even torped a Midget sub and it flew around like a bb in a boxcar! It settled down after that and even that didn't sink!:x

[Snaptrap]

So you want the subs to sink when they're destroyed? Sounds like fun.

[gimpy117]

yea....had 3 DD's pounding me and got hit with my own torp....didn't sink on top, the second i submerge....glub glub glub...

[bratwurstdimsum]

Success!!! (well sort of)

When creating scenarios with subs...I had a balao in a U-boat mission, set AI sub to be a target depth of -8. The boat's decks are awash but its better than nothing.

I hit the balao with 4 torpedos amidships and she slowly went under while being carried out by the tide...:arrgh!:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/bratwurstdimsum/sh42012-07-3121-15-44-72.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/bratwurstdimsum/sh42012-07-3121-16-05-37.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/bratwurstdimsum/sh42012-07-3121-18-22-10.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/bratwurstdimsum/sh42012-07-3121-18-48-85.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b340/bratwurstdimsum/sh42012-07-3121-22-10-96.jpg