GWX Question: XXI snorkel mounted antenna

[P-B]

Is it possible to enable the snorkel mounted antenna for the XXI from April 1944?,
if so how? Have tried tinkering with the Cfg files in the late war sensors mod with no result, but that is as far as my limited skills will go.:doh:

Many thanks in advance guys.

and thanks again for GWX 2.1 its awesome - just got bombed by a PBY coming out of nowhere with its Leigh light blinding me (VIIC Sep 43) - Real Iron Coffins style! need to get an RWR me thinks :88)

[difool2]

A fervent wish of mine, but alas it appears that only one person knows how to do that, and he left the community about 6 months ago (or so I'm told).

[bigboywooly]

Hmmmm
Not sure
BUT
If you plan on using the XXI I suggest you enable the late war sensors anyway
In tests seems tis the only files with which you dont get a radar destroyed message

Now whether the snorkel mounted radar is there then I didnt see

Worth a try

[P-B]

difool: This is not good news if true:cry:

BBW: I do enable the Late war sensors mod and it works just fine as described in GWX manual and the Snorkel mounted RWR appears on the XXI in Jan 45 allowing me to cruise snokeling in relative safety, before that (Apr 44 - 31 Dec 44) i am not able to, and snorkeling is distinctly hazardous to health:dead:

[Dowly]

A fervent wish of mine, but alas it appears that only one person knows how to do that, and he left the community about 6 months ago (or so I'm told).

6 months? Wasnt this about the same time when Privateer got keelkauled? :lol: Anyways, if there indeed has been some wonder-modder doing stuff no one else can, who has left SubSim, I surely havent heard of him. :hmm: I bet there is few who know how to make it, but the question is, will they?

[difool2]

Found the earlier thread about this:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114176

So yes it appears that it ain't going to happen.

[ref]

Not my area of expertise, but try changing the availability dates in Nss_Uboat21.sns

[Sensor 11]
NodeName=R02
LinkName=FuMO391
StartDate=19450101
EndDate=19451231

Ref

[P-B]

Difool2: thanks for digging that thread up though it does not look good:cry:

Ref: will try that now and report back later, cheers for the direction.

[P-B]

Ref - tried that - no joy. Thanks for the try though - have tried several other changes to the late war sensors Cfg file with no luck either. but then my skills in this area mean im probably about as effective as a blind man trying to score a bullseye in darts:88)

Edit: Ok just found some thing weird? was going to play with a VIIC/41 from Jan 44 so enabled GWX VIIC/41 player sub, (based on Cobalts VIIC/41?? i think) popped the snorkel up during the game and noticed snorkel mounted antenna which actually works. I did not have Late war sensors enabled which enables snorkel antennas for VIIs and IXs from Oct 44? could this provide a clue to answer the original query? do any of the GWX crew have any idea whats has happened here? and or is Cobalt still around?

[Stiebler]

It's actually very easy to put a radar-warning-receiver (rwr) on the Type XXI.

This is because the Type XXI-FuMO391 radar was mounted by the devs on top of the schnorchel. All you have to do is change the type from 'radar' to 'rwr'.
In GWX2 the Type XXI *already* has this change made for you in the sensors.dat file (for the FuMO391 - sensor type is now 4 (= rwr), originally 1 (= radar).)

So to access this rwr earlier than in the mod, all you need to do is follow this procedure:
1. Make a copy of your GWX2 'LateWar Sensors' Mod in your mods folder. Rename it to something memorable, like 'Late_Sensors_TypeXXI'.
2. In the new folder, locate file submarine\NSS_Uboat21\NSS_Uboat21.sns (as Ref suggested), and change the starting date to whatever you want (year, month). Let us say to '19440101'.
3. Again, in the new folder locate file cfg\basic.cfg. Find [EQUIP 5] (radar-warning) near the bottom of the file and, in the same section, locate the entry 'IdX7=1279' (for the FuMO391). Change the values of 'Year7' and 'Month7' to a starting date just before the date you used in (2) above. Let us say Year7=1943, Month7=12. You might like also to change the 'Renown' to 0 (was 20000).
4. Now use JSGME to add your new mod 'Late_Sensors_TypeXXI' to your installation.

All should work fine now.

One final point:
You might wish to change the range of the rwr for the FuMO391 (the range in GWX2 in 9.5 km, which is far too long).
You can find the ranges in file data\library\sensors.sim. Change 'maxRange' and 'PreciseRange' for the FuMO391 to something like 5 km. Don't forget to make a copy of the original sensors.sim file first, and install it in your folder 'Late_Sensors_TypeXXI\data\library'.
[For the record, the *real* range of the schnorchel-mounted rwr was just *one* km! (for short-wavelength radar). That is why the schnorchels had tarnmatte added to them. But, for game purposes, 5 km is about realistic.]


Stiebler.

[Pablo]

You might wish to change the range of the rwr for the FuMO391 (the range in GWX2 in 9.5 km, which is far too long).
You can find the ranges in file data\library\sensors.sim. Change 'maxRange' and 'PreciseRange' for the FuMO391 to something like 5 km. Don't forget to make a copy of the original sensors.sim file first, and install it in your folder 'Late_Sensors_TypeXXI\data\library'.
[For the record, the *real* range of the schnorchel-mounted rwr was just *one* km! (for short-wavelength radar). That is why the schnorchels had tarnmatte added to them. But, for game purposes, 5 km is about realistic.]
Hi!

Interesting. What was the source for your 1km "*real*" range figure?

Pablo.

[Stiebler]

@Pablo:

The following is taken from 'Ultra in the Atlantic', Volume IV, pages 8-9, by an un-named official author describing in summary the use of American decryptions by the '10th Fleet' during the Battle of the Atlantic.

This document is now available on the Internet, under the 'HyperWar Foundation', 'Technical Intelligence from Allied Communications Intelligence', SRH-025.

"10. Schnorchel and GSR.
"While the introduction of Schnorchel in 1944 proved a blessing to the U-boats, it did not eliminate entirely their susceptibility to location by radar when the Schnorchel was extended, although the radar target was considerably smaller than that of the whole U-boat. It was therefore necessary to devise a means of search receiving for the schnorcheling U-boat. This was brought about by including a drum type aerial, called the Schnorchel round dipole, in the Schnorchel mast. The round dipole was capable of receiving radar transmissions on meter wavelengths, but according to message 2003/10 of July 1944, it could only register Fliege range radar at the short distance of 1,000 meters. The Germans apparently believed it practically impossible for a Schnorchel to be picked up by centimeter radar because of its rubber camouflage protections and considered search reception over the round dipole adequate protection from meter wavelength radar. At the end of the war they were trying to develop a permanent centimeter aerial for the Schnorchel mast. That they had not succeeded was shown by a reply from Germany to Surabaya's inquiry concerning the installation of such an aerial. Berlin replied:
At present there is still no gear available for observing centimeter radar during Schnorchel cruise.(PPB 86, 3 April 1945)
"Type XXI U-boats were to have carried such aerials."

Interrogations of U-boat officers after the end of the war confirms the above information in outline. (Source: documents in National Archives, London, UK.) The radio/radar reception from the Type XXIII boat, my main area of interest at this time, was rubbish.

There is a wonderful account of how a crew member of a Type XXIII was observing through the periscope in thick fog off the east coast of Scotland. This was standard practice while schnorchelling. Suddenly the sailor saw two British corvettes pass just 200 metres away! The ships *must* have been using (short-range) radar in the thick fog or they might have hit one another. The U-boat's schnorchel-mounted rwr had given no radar warning. Amazingly, the warships did not hear the loud rattle of the U-boat's diesels, nor could they detect the U-boat by asdic. The commander at once stopped the schnorchelling and lay the boat on the shallow sea bed. The U-boat escaped detection.


Stiebler.

[P-B]

Stiebler: Tried what you suggested with no luck, do not know if you have got it to work but it did not work this end. Theanks for the effort, and cheers for the extract about detection ranges will alter the ranges as suggested :up:.

[Pablo]

@Stiebler:

I'm sorry, but in reading your source information I don't see where you can draw a conclusion that the GWX range is incorrect, since radars with meter-length radars were still in use and we need to account for the U-boats ability to detect them.

Pablo

[Stiebler]

@P-B:

Looking back at my earlier post, I see that I was too vague about the NSS_Uboat21.sns file. (Item (2)).

In your new 'LateSensorsXXI' mod, locate file NSS_Uboat21.sns.

Find the radar-warning/FuMO391 section. You should be looking at 'Sensor10' and 'Sensor11'. Both have NodeName=R02 (the position on top of the schnorchel).

Change the ENDDATE of sensor 10 to Enddate=19431231. (I'm assuming we're still trying to get the schnorchel radar from 1 Jan 1944).

Change the STARTDATE of sensor 11 to Startdate=19440101.

When you sail out of port, you should now see the Rundipol rwr on top of the schnorchel. When you see that, you've got a schnorchel-radar-detector.

I've tested it in a Type XXI around the north-west of Britain in mid-January 1944 - it works.

But how come you have access to a Type XXI at all in January 1944? I had to modify file flotillas.cfg before I could get one to come up on the equipment screen for the 11th flotilla starting a career in 1944.

Also: You must have a crewman in the radio compartment to receive radar warnings!

@Pablo:
I'm sorry, but in reading your source information I don't see where you can draw a conclusion that the GWX range is incorrect, since radars with meter-length radars were still in use and we need to account for the U-boats ability to detect them.
I take your point.

However, by 1945 most aircraft/warships were using short-wave radar because it is more precise. Also, the less precise long-wave radar could not detect the schnorchel except under ideal conditions, so it posed no threat to the U-boat.
Therefore any schnorchelling U-boat would have to assume that an attack was likely to be made with the assistance of short-wave radar. For most air attacks, the U-boat would receive very little warning.

Players of SH3 use time compression, therefore it is necessary to use a range longer than 1 km for short-wave radar. I have found 5 km is about right to give the player time to react.

Stiebler.

[P-B]

Stiebler: Thanks for the clarification - i was only modifying sensor 11. as to Jan availibility of XXI - i do not have the XXI at that time i am trying to get the Snorkel mounted antenna from its availible date on 01 Apr 44. Your instructions do not change just the date obviously. Thanks again! I will try this when i get home and post result.

Just to confirm -

NSS_Uboat21\NSS_Uboat21.sns:
Sensor 10:
Enddate=19440331

sensor 11
Startdate=19440401

cfg\basic.cfg:
[EQUIP 5]
Year7=1944,
Month7=03

Making thes changes in these files should make it work right?
thanks again for your patience and time mate.


Edit: Thankyou Stiebler, have made the changes and it works like a dream, again; thanks for your time.

[Stiebler]

@P-B:

Thankyou Stiebler, have made the changes and it works like a dream, again; thanks for your time.

Acknowledged with thanks.

Stiebler.