[REQ] Can someone adjust the auto targeting lock?

[Webster]

the auto target lock is incorrect in my opinion, much of the time your hitting props and rudders of merchant ships.

im not sure what is the best way to adjust this or if you can. i thought about changing the torp speed but the game would adjust the angle to still hit the same spot so adjusting the targetting point itself is what is needed but it is something i dont know how to do.

im not talking about ships speeding up or manuvering out of the torp path, thats normal variables and its just part of the game but it appears the average targeting point seams to be actually aiming for the center point between the mast and stern rather than the mast itself.

i have read the post about the manual targeting torpedo fix but unfortunately they only change the visual cues used to manually target ships and dont address the files used by the game to figure target points of ships that is used to calculate the auto target angle of attack.

[CaptainHaplo]

Webster, you have a couple of options here - neither is a fix but they are workarounds.

First, make sure you open the outer doors a few seconds before you fire - if you dont you will get aft hits every time when you wanted a MOT - its easy to forget and accounts for most of the "late" hits.

Second, unlock the target right before you fire, swing your scope to the target bow and fire if you find shots still are "lagging". This changes the aim point and thus moves the impact point forward.

Lastly, you can adjust the "spread angle" positively or negatively as needed if all else fails.

However, when I have used auto targetting - I tend to get MOTs unless the target is aware I am there. Once the enemy is alerted the zig/zag isnt compensated for with autotargetting. In cases like that - again eyeball adjust the aim point.

[clayp]

Webster, you have a couple of options here - neither is a fix but they are workarounds.

First, make sure you open the outer doors a few seconds before you fire - if you dont you will get aft hits every time when you wanted a MOT - its easy to forget and accounts for most of the "late" hits.

Second, unlock the target right before you fire, swing your scope to the target bow and fire if you find shots still are "lagging". This changes the aim point and thus moves the impact point forward.

Lastly, you can adjust the "spread angle" positively or negatively as needed if all else fails.

However, when I have used auto targetting - I tend to get MOTs unless the target is aware I am there. Once the enemy is alerted the zig/zag isnt compensated for with autotargetting. In cases like that - again eyeball adjust the aim point.

Well I use auto-targetting cause I dont know how to do the real way and I cant hit S**T...:oops:

[Webster]

Well I use auto-targetting cause I dont know how to do the real way and I cant hit S**T...:oops:

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Webster]

Webster, you have a couple of options here - neither is a fix but they are workarounds.

First, make sure you open the outer doors a few seconds before you fire - if you dont you will get aft hits every time when you wanted a MOT - its easy to forget and accounts for most of the "late" hits.

Second, unlock the target right before you fire, swing your scope to the target bow and fire if you find shots still are "lagging". This changes the aim point and thus moves the impact point forward.

Lastly, you can adjust the "spread angle" positively or negatively as needed if all else fails.

However, when I have used auto targetting - I tend to get MOTs unless the target is aware I am there. Once the enemy is alerted the zig/zag isnt compensated for with autotargetting. In cases like that - again eyeball adjust the aim point.

well opening the tubes first helps sometimes but without preopning the doors, some ships target fine but most dont, my goal is to fix it to hit midships without having to be preopening the tubes.

also i have long wished they fix the bug where if you open the tube doors and dont fire within 15 seconds of them being opened then when you do fire your torpedo you will still get the delay of the tubes opening before launch even though the doors are already opened.

[Mush Martin]

Hi Web Hi clay ,, My advice is this, the bit where you unlock the
scope and move the crosshair fwd prior to shooting can be made
up in the following way.

set the torpedo gyroangle offset by 1/2 a degree to the appropriate
direction of travel ( the same way the ships moving )

play with it a little to find the right setting.

all it does is make the torp move the distance over you would
move it with the scope with out unlock. then you just stay locked
as you have been shooting but your torps will hit more or less
amidships or so. Play with it.

M out.

[Rockin Robbins]

well opening the tubes first helps sometimes but without preopning the doors, some ships target fine but most dont, my goal is to fix it to hit midships without having to be preopening the tubes.

also i have long wished they fix the bug where if you open the tube doors and dont fire within 15 seconds of them being opened then when you do fire your torpedo you will still get the delay of the tubes opening before launch even though the doors are already opened.
Sir my goal is to make one plus one equal three. I have more chance of success than you do.

Why would you WANT to shoot torpedoes with the doors shut? Why is it a bug if the doors don't open instantly? Have you timed the doors on a real submarine? Do they open in zero seconds? Wouldn't it be a bug if the game doors opened in zero seconds? The word "bug" means something. Misusing it shows contempt for reality at worst and sloppy English at best.

What in the world are you calling a bug? For the game to not be bugged all torpedoes must hit the target no matter how ineptly you shoot? A bug is when a feature works realistically, causing you to miss the target? Even in Unreal Tournament III (not a simulation) you have to reload your weapon or it will stop shooting.

Think about this: satisfaction, pride and sense of accomplishment comes from mastering a set of skills that you have had trouble learning. Without difficulty and without overcoming difficulty, satisfaction and happiness are not possible. This is true not only in Silent Hunter, but in life itself. We have no right to expect that ANYTHING work in the way we expect it to. Our task is to find out how it does work and then learn to use that to make life more agreeable to us. Normally I would slide off into a discussion of situational morality being exactly what you expect here, that things be true simply because we wish them so. But I won't. I'll reduce it here to mathematics. Overcoming difficulty=happiness=accomplishment. We<>God. Conformity to reality=happiness. Acting contrary to reality=unhappiness + failure.

As others have said, even auto targeting will not save you if you are too lazy to open the torpedo doors before you shoot. I can tell you why you are hitting some targets but missing others, but it's not worth the trouble. I am left wondering whether you returned your car as defective because it wouldn't drive before you started the engine.

I wonder if it is even possible to communicate how ludicrous your "bug" allegation is, based on the preposterous premise you have stated. Why do I feel like Ducimus here?:shifty:

[peabody]

@Rockin Robbins,

I think your misinterpeting what he is saying, or I'm misreadin it. Now, I'll be up front, I don't know a lot about subs but I'm learning because of this game, but that aside. Do the doors close after they have been opened? Or do they stay open? I thought they stayed open which I think is what he is saying: if he doesn't shoot soon after opening, he gets a delay, same as if he didn't open them first. Not that he gets a delay if he shoot before 15 seconds, but if he opens them ,then doesn't shoot, he gets a delay like they are closing again. I actually have that happen on tube #3, for some reason, but I am aware of it and make compensations for it. It delays even though it's open, it's not a long delay but it isn't like the rest of the tubes for some reason, I'm not a modder or programmer but I would think they all use the same "coded routine" for fireing, but it happens. Don't know why.
Now obviously they have to close again after the shot, otherwise you couldn't load the tube, see I'm really not a complete idiot:rotfl:. Like my father used to say "I'm not fast, I'm not slow, I'm just kinda half-fast".

A little story to lighten things up a bit:
I missed my chance yesterday, but only due to circumstances. Chased down quite a few of the modern liners, big tonnage for a merchanta and used up quite a few torps. Then ran smack into a task force, they were headin due south, I was heading due north. I was right in the middle of the biggest convoy I'm ever run into and had three fish in the front, four in the back. Took out the fleet carrier with the front three. I decided not to turn because the DDs were gathering where I "was" so I would have turned right into them, so ahead flank and try to get under one of the BBs (there were 3) and I did but he was almost gone by, so I turned to get the stern tubes on him and shot at a terrible angle, knew I shouldn't but being half-fast, I did and missed all four shots. Quickly got my depth to 250 and 1 knot. All the time saying 90 degrees, 90 degrees, dummy 90 degrees. I should have waited for the next carrier in line. Another lesson learned!! (the hard way)

Peabody

[clayp]

Hi Web Hi clay ,, My advice is this, the bit where you unlock the
scope and move the crosshair fwd prior to shooting can be made
up in the following way.

set the torpedo gyroangle offset by 1/2 a degree to the appropriate
direction of travel ( the same way the ships moving )

play with it a little to find the right setting.

all it does is make the torp move the distance over you would
move it with the scope with out unlock. then you just stay locked
as you have been shooting but your torps will hit more or less
amidships or so. Play with it.

M out.

Thanks bud...I will if I can figure out what the heck the gyroangle is....:damn:

[DrBeast]

...Also i have long wished they fix the bug where if you open the tube doors and dont fire within 15 seconds of them being opened then when you do fire your torpedo you will still get the delay of the tubes opening before launch even though the doors are already opened.

:huh: :huh: :huh:
I have never, EVER encountered this. I've kept the doors open for minutes without firing, and every time I fired, the fish went flying with no delay at all! The only time the tubes close and, subsequently, had to be reopened, was when I submerged below maximum firing depth (30 meters). Or maybe this is a bug that crept in with 1.5...? But, if memory serves, you don't have the add-on, correct? :hmm:

@clayp: don't worry mate, you'll figure it all out with practice and patience, Me, whenever I read about gyroangle, I think of gyro and pita or some similar greek delicacy! :rotfl:

[Rockin Robbins]

@Rockin Robbins,

I think your misinterpeting what he is saying, or I'm misreadin it. Now, I'll be up front, I don't know a lot about subs but I'm learning because of this game, but that aside. Do the doors close after they have been opened? Or do they stay open? I thought they stayed open which I think is what he is saying: if he doesn't shoot soon after opening, he gets a delay, same as if he didn't open them first. ...

I would have turned right into them, so ahead flank and try to get under one of the BBs (there were 3) and I did but he was almost gone by, so I turned to get the stern tubes on him and shot at a terrible angle, knew I shouldn't but being half-fast, I did and missed all four shots. Quickly got my depth to 250 and 1 knot. All the time saying 90 degrees, 90 degrees, dummy 90 degrees. I should have waited for the next carrier in line. Another lesson learned!! (the hard way)

Peabody

I thought he clearly said that he thought the game was bugged because if he shot without opening the torpedo tube he missed most of the time. Actually I still think that.:rotfl:

I've opened the tubes as much as five minutes or so before I've fired without any problems. I try to open them just before I take my last observation so I have it straight which tubes are open and which are not. The heat of battle fries perfectly good brains and all plans for battle have to be much simpler than you think they need to be beforehand, or YOU WILL SCREW THEM UP. If you underestimate your capabilities before the fight you will seldom be disappointed.:arrgh!:

And that's a great story! It's the hardest lesson to learn. Shoot in haste repent in leisure.:yep: Or cry. Or throw a temper tantrum.:hulk:

[DrBeast]

I thought he clearly said that he thought the game was bugged because if he shot without opening the torpedo tube he missed most of the time. Actually I still think that.:rotfl:


You need a Guinness or two to clear your head and think more coherently, my friend! :rotfl: I, a non-native user of the English language, understood that WEBSTER considers this as a bug: he sometimes witnesses a delay when he's firing a torpedo, as if he's opening the torpedo doors, EVEN THOUGH the doors are already open. Something that, as I stated in my post, I have NEVER, EVER witnessed.
Now, here's a pint of Guinness on my behalf. I hope it helps! :()1:

Footnote: you may underestimate the metric system, but if I hear ONE WORD from you belittling Guinness, I'll crash my plane on your lawn and beat you in the snot! :rotfl:

[Rockin Robbins]

Thanks bud...I will if I can figure out what the heck the gyroangle is....:damn:
Darn! I have to make that movie. You're right. All the instructional stuff so far is not clear enough. WernerSobe's are great, but they assume you know too much. I pick that stuff up quickly, but many don't because they learn differently. Stay tuned. I'll get to it!

If you're having trouble, just think of how many people that never post are reading these threads and not getting it either. I better quit messing with Linux (where I feel like I was dropped out of a plane in the middle of China and don't know how to ask to go to the bathroom!) and get to work on those videos. Thanks for reminding me they could be important to someone other than myself.

Gyro angle is the angle from straight ahead that the torpedo has to turn to in order to hit the target. A zero gyro angle shoots a shot perfectly straight ahead of the sub, or behind, if you're shooting an aft torpedo.

[clayp]

Footnote: you may underestimate the metric system, but if I hear ONE WORD from you belittling Guinness, I'll crash my plane on your lawn and beat you in the snot! :rotfl:__________________
Whats a Guinness? Is that like a genuis........:lol:

[DrBeast]

Whats a Guinness? Is that like a genuis........:lol:

Hands down, THE best beer ever made! Them Irish know how to make GOOD STUFF! ;) A couple of those, and you'll feel like a genius afterwards! Heck, they're helping me tackle my PhD! :rotfl:

[Rockin Robbins]

:()1:

Footnote: you may underestimate the metric system, but if I hear ONE WORD from you belittling Guinness, I'll crash my plane on your lawn and beat you in the snot! :rotfl:

This is one American who appreciates Guiness, even stout and extra stout. I'm one who doesn't believe all beer should be Colorado Cool-Aid. Guiness still comes in pints coesn't it? If they've gone metric I'm going to be upset enough to have to drink a few!:nope:

[DrBeast]

Guinness still comes in pints coesn't it? If they've gone metric I'm going to be upset enough to have to drink a few!:nope:

Aye...they've not gone metric yet! :rotfl:

[Rockin Robbins]

I'll do some testing tonight to see if I can figure out what WEBSTER is talking about. Maybe there is something we're missing.

[DrBeast]

I spent the last month or so just shooting at stationary targets...lots of them and lots of times, with either a Gato or a Balao in Single Missions. That's why I'm so certain that I've NEVER ran across the delay in the launch after the doors have been opened, no matter how much time had elapsed after I opened them. Also, sometimes when the doors hadn't been fully opened, the delay only lasted for the remainder of the time needed for the doors to open, not the full duration. :hmm:

[clayp]

I spent the last month or so just shooting at stationary targets...lots of them and lots of times, with either a Gato or a Balao in Single Missions. That's why I'm so certain that I've NEVER ran across the delay in the launch after the doors have been opened, no matter how much time had elapsed after I opened them. Also, sometimes when the doors hadn't been fully opened, the delay only lasted for the remainder of the time needed for the doors to open, not the full duration. :hmm:

Do you have a mission for shooting at targets?...If so will you share....:D

[Rockin Robbins]

I spent the last month or so just shooting at stationary targets...lots of them and lots of times, with either a Gato or a Balao in Single Missions. That's why I'm so certain that I've NEVER ran across the delay in the launch after the doors have been opened, no matter how much time had elapsed after I opened them. Also, sometimes when the doors hadn't been fully opened, the delay only lasted for the remainder of the time needed for the doors to open, not the full duration. :hmm:
Do you have a mission for shooting at targets?...If so will you share....:D

Actually, I do and I will! It's set up off the safe and sunny coast of California. I'll post it tonight. It might also help Webster get a routine down. Also WernerSobe's Natural Sinking Mechanics Test Mission is just a great shooting gallery of stationary ships. I'll post it too.

[clayp]

I spent the last month or so just shooting at stationary targets...lots of them and lots of times, with either a Gato or a Balao in Single Missions. That's why I'm so certain that I've NEVER ran across the delay in the launch after the doors have been opened, no matter how much time had elapsed after I opened them. Also, sometimes when the doors hadn't been fully opened, the delay only lasted for the remainder of the time needed for the doors to open, not the full duration. :hmm:
Do you have a mission for shooting at targets?...If so will you share....:D

Actually, I do and I will! It's set up off the safe and sunny coast of California. I'll post it tonight. It might also help Webster get a routine down. Also WernerSobe's Natural Sinking Mechanics Test Mission is just a great shooting gallery of stationary ships. I'll post it too.

Well thank you very much Sir I really appreciate that..:up: Would not it also be good practice to have one with the ships moving at different speeds if such a thing exists??....:sunny:

[Webster]

Hi Web Hi clay ,, My advice is this, the bit where you unlock the
scope and move the crosshair fwd prior to shooting can be made
up in the following way.

set the torpedo gyroangle offset by 1/2 a degree to the appropriate
direction of travel ( the same way the ships moving )

play with it a little to find the right setting.

all it does is make the torp move the distance over you would
move it with the scope with out unlock. then you just stay locked
as you have been shooting but your torps will hit more or less
amidships or so. Play with it.

M out.

but if i did this wouldnt it way overshoot the target the further away it is the further forward off target it would be?
and any rear fired torpedos would angle to the rear of the target would they not?

@ Rockin Robbins - as to being realistic, isnt the torpedo angle of attack constantly being updated right up until the moment it is fired?

if i ordered a torpedo launch and the doors had to be opened first then while the doors were opened the torpedos were not still locked onto the ships old position. any delay in firing to open doors should already be factored in to the firing solution.

[Mush Martin]

Yes it would at extreme ranges.

but in short to middle ranges on sizeable ships it will work well
enough that clay will even start to smile a bit. :sunny:

it is better to shoot with lock off and move the crosshair
but on the other hand theres occasions where you dont
want to put the scope up again.

play with it a bit see if it does for you. at worst go back to unlock
which is what I use even when manual shooting.

M

[clayp]

Yes it would at extreme ranges.

but in short to middle ranges on sizeable ships it will work well
enough that clay will even start to smile a bit. :sunny:

it is better to shoot with lock off and move the crosshair
but on the other hand theres occasions where you dont
want to put the scope up again.

play with it a bit see if it does for you. at worst go back to unlock
which is what I use even when manual shooting.

M

:sunny: :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:

[Webster]

Yes it would at extreme ranges.

but in short to middle ranges on sizeable ships it will work well
enough that clay will even start to smile a bit. :sunny:

it is better to shoot with lock off and move the crosshair
but on the other hand theres occasions where you dont
want to put the scope up again.

play with it a bit see if it does for you. at worst go back to unlock
which is what I use even when manual shooting.

M

ok thanks, i'll give it a try but i think i'll start with a smaller number and see how it does.

[CaptainHaplo]

If the concern is the "open the tube door" - I can if you guys want slap together a quick mod that changes the fire time to be open the door instantly and fire the torp instantly.

[hawk2495]

ok not sure if this has been asked with all the talk about guiness....mmmmmmm guiness....... what mods are you running WEBSTER if any? in in stock SH4 you could only open one tuhe at a time if you opened the next the previous would close that would lead to the firing delay i as i see it because you are essentially having to re-open the next or previous tube in line. i know TMO has a modified cmds.cfg that allows you to open all tubes and i believe RFB does as well. hope this helps some, if not ill just have to have a few more guiness.

[Rockin Robbins]

@ Rockin Robbins - as to being realistic, isnt the torpedo angle of attack constantly being updated right up until the moment it is fired?

if i ordered a torpedo launch and the doors had to be opened first then while the doors were opened the torpedos were not still locked onto the ships old position. any delay in firing to open doors should already be factored in to the firing solution.
No, it's much worse than that. It actually happened in an aft torpedo room that a scared torpedoman hit the fire button when the outer door was closed. The torpedo shot right into the door. It didn't go off because the propeller on the front has to spin a certain number of times to arm the explosive. They spent the better part of a week of desparate work to get the bent up torpedo out of the tube, repair the damage and restore their deep submerging ability.:doh:

In the game, it looks to me that the most current data is sent to the torpedo when you hit the fire button. Then the data stops flowing. If it takes 10 seconds for the fish to fire, the target gets a free 10 seconds of movement and your new aiming point is 10 seconds behind the beam. You might hit a slow target but a fast one will get away clean.

Ok guys, I've posted my Dick O'Kane targeting mission (http://hosted.filefront.com/RockinRobbins/) on FileFront. This puts you in the sunny, safe and warm waters of southern California with a bogey tanker to shoot at. Of course, you can use whatever targeting method you choose and do it again and again until you're happy that you have this puppy figured out. NSM test mission is also there now, with lots of stationary targets for your shooting and dancing pleasure. The missions are JSGME compatible.

While you're there you can check out my Fleet Boat Plotting video, Nav Map Charting Tools video and Dick O'Kane targeting video. They all need improvement, but they're ok the way there are. I'll be working on those and another on conventional targeting as soon as I get over my Linux insanity.

[Shyzar]

it is better to shoot with lock off and move the crosshair
M

The aiming point of the torpedo follows the persiscope?

Whenever I'm shooting ships in a harbor I sink one and when I lock on the other target, but don't take another range, the torpedo goes off to try to sink the already sunk freighter :shifty:

[clayp]

I have a confession to make I'll tell you all how bad I am..:oops: I haven't played for a couple of weeks,BUT when I was I hardly ever sank anything with torpedos..I have a basically stock 1.4 game with a hodgepodge of mods INCLUDING one I made myself with instruction from MR Mush Martin..I have a Gato in 1941 with 2- 5" deck guns and they fire fast,reload fast and the shells are a little stronger..SO if I cant surface and sink with the guns I dont get it most of the time.....:oops: Thats how bad Iam...

[Rockin Robbins]

it is better to shoot with lock off and move the crosshair
M
The aiming point of the torpedo follows the persiscope?

Whenever I'm shooting ships in a harbor I sink one and when I lock on the other target, but don't take another range, the torpedo goes off to try to sink the already sunk freighter :shifty:
In the American boat set on manual targeting the aiming point does not follow the periscope. In order to synchronize the aiming point to the periscope, you must point the scope in the direction you want to shoot and then press the send range/bearing button on the TDC. You don't have to have the periscope locked. Nor are you forced to use the stadimeter first. That green button to the left of send range/bearing activates the stadimeter so you can get a range.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/Manual%20TDC%20Range/SH4Img14-11-2007_75732_538-1.jpg

And right there it is! You press the left button on the bottom row to select range and bearing input, then press the button shown. Now the torpedo will go where the periscope is pointing. The three bottom buttons from left to right are range/bearing, Angle on the Bow and speed.

[Mush Martin]

I turn off the PK prior to firing.

[Rockin Robbins]

Yeah, Mush, that's a pretty complicated but really powerful technique. When I make a video of that I'll run it by you for pointers. It's a big deal because then you don't have to guess how to use the stupid spread knob. I believe in individually aimed torpedoes too.:up:

OH! Warning: if you surface, that nice juicy tanker in my training mission will shoot at you! It has a novice crew. You are most likely not in too much danger. Maybe.:rotfl:

[Webster]

In the game, it looks to me that the most current data is sent to the torpedo when you hit the fire button. Then the data stops flowing. If it takes 10 seconds for the fish to fire, the target gets a free 10 seconds of movement and your new aiming point is 10 seconds behind the beam. You might hit a slow target but a fast one will get away clean.

well this was what i was refering to, the point at which the game "sets" the target point. if it is using a set point on the ship like the mast location or does it calculate the ships length to pick its target point.

i havent found that speeding up the door opening time would help much because you dont have much room for changing it to open faster. (im going by memory here so my numbers may be a little off) i found it hard coded not to go below 1 second for doors (stock is 1.5) and torpedo launch cant go below 1.25 seconds (stock is 1.75). using these lowest sttings will still take 2.5 seconds from time of hitting the fire button to have doors open and the torpedo launch.

i decided changing door opening time and launch time wasnt the solution so i gave up and stopped playing around with it but i dont remember it having any noticable effect on the torpedo hit location on merchant ships.

in all my trying i purposely dont compare warships because they evade and change speed constantly so they cant be accurate to compare to merchants steaming on a steady speed and coarse.