We the undersigned..

[joegrundman]

We the undersigned hold the following to be true

1) I like to play both SH3 and SH4, U-boat and fleet boat, atlantic and pacific operations, or alternatively i prefer one theater, but that's just a personal preference. Nothing major invested in it.

2) I do not get all "aroused" at the prospect of the righteous rain of death I am virtually inflicting in the name of freedom

3) I do not get all misty for jackboots, nazi insignia, invading other countries, and evil dictatorships

4) They are just uncommonly good games.

5) Modders for one group or the other are not "our boys, heroes, angels, omnipotent beings" while the other group's are "them, evil, plagiarists, incompetents". Modders are people who have the time, talent and inclination to do this work and graciously share it with others (although that's not to say that the sun therefore radiates from their nether regions), and they all in general and in particular have my respect and deep gratitude, whether their mods be huge or small, and however they decide to organise the project.

6) I am tired of people on these forums, people who i respect and believe should know better, exhibiting insensitivity and hyper-sensitivity, clannishness and belligerence, disrespect and exagerrated false dichotomies, chips on the shoulder and excessive demand that no perceived slight goes unchallenged ad nauseum.

Good manners and giving the benefit of the doubt with regards to ambiguous posts will help everyone to end this embarassingly childish state of affairs

Joe Grundman

[thasaint]

agreed

[badaboom]

:up: I'll 2nd that

[AVGWarhawk]

Great post Joe.

[skwasjer]

amen :yep:

[John W. Hamm]

Just add my name

[Mush Martin]

Here Here :up::up::up::up::up:

[Penta]

Aye.

[Sailor Steve]

Makes sense to me.:sunny:

[Mav87th]

Signed

[Bewolf]

aye!

[schurem]

F'in Aye!:up:

[jimimadrid]

Signed +++

[Hitman]

Count me in :up:

[skwasjer]

One star rating?

Oh please... :rotfl:

[DaveP63]

Ditto :damn:

[AVGWarhawk]

Aye.

Spoken like a true sailor:up:

[AVGWarhawk]

aye!

Spoken like a true sailor:up:

[AVGWarhawk]

F'in Aye!:up:


Here is the real sailor:rotfl:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Nice Joe :yep::up:


RDP

[MONOLITH]

"It won't hurt at all. Just go to sleep. When you wake up, you will feel nothing at all" ~ Invasion of the Body Snatchers

"Resistance is Futile" ~ The Borg.











Just a joke Guys. Relax. :|\\





.

[MarkShot]

Having personally been the victim of these attacks simply because I like to discuss and analyze how game engines work, I will sign and say that I am tired of having been bullied and driven out of participating on www.subsim.com.

Furthermore, I will say that my dissappointment is not only with the bullies, but with www.subsim.com itself. I have personally written to Neal about this matter, but received no response. I will hope this means that he and other moderators are simply too busy to have responded to my mail. However, I fear that what it really means is that the bullies' mods generate so much site traffic that it would be bad business to require that they behave in a civil manner to the low profile and meek members such as myself. Better to let them wipe their feet on people such as myself than risk having them go offsite and open their own separate Web distribution and discussion home.

Oh, well ... (but I sign anyway as a matter of principle)

[Bewolf]

Having personally been the victim of these attacks simply because I like to discuss and analyze how game engines work, I will sign and say that I am tired of having been bullied and driven out of participating on www.subsim.com (http://www.subsim.com).

Furthermore, I will say that my dissappointment is not only with the bullies, but with www.subsim.com (http://www.subsim.com) itself. I have personally written to Neal about this matter, but received no response. I will hope this means that he and other moderators are simply too busy to have responded to my mail. However, I fear that what it really means is that the bullies' mods generate so much site traffic that it would be bad business to require that they behave in a civil manner to the low profile and meek members such as myself. Better to let them wipe their feet on people such as myself than risk having them go offsite and open their own separate Web distribution and discussion home.

Oh, well ... (but I sign anyway as a matter of principle)


errr?:hmm:

[HundertzehnGustav]

yah ima gunna sigh that too, i guess.:up: :up:

IX for life an evrithing havin a IX cant be ALL that bad, eh?

Put ANGEL BOB on tha list, will ya mate.

[peabody]

One star rating?

Oh please... :rotfl:

First off great comments, I sign.

And to Skywasjer, yes the "one star Punk" is making his rounds in all forums because he isn't man enough to comment, even if he disagrees. This has been discussed before in a different forum, and he is one that would never sign, and he feels that will continue the bickering without making any comment or showing his name. Grow up "One Star" if you have something to stay, stand up and be heard!!

Peabody

[tedhealy]

Perhaps playing games brings out the child in all of us and that child naturally carries over into the forum when talking about the game. I know it has for me from time to time.

I pledge to be less of a jerk...starting now :stare:

[CCIP]

Honestly, I will say this - not only should we not complain, but we should feel blessed that in the last 3 years we got two Silent Hunter games, one add-on and a million mods to rule them all :D

I'm personally overjoyed that U-boats are coming in greater force to SHIV (thanks devs, lurker, mikhayl and many others)! I don't have time to enjoy them right now, but this is fantastic news all the same.

[clayton]

I can only imagine a new person buying the game, finding Subsim, looking at all the old time posters - with thousands of posts - thinking, 'what a bunch of a$$holes'!

Well, I want to start being constructive not destructive, so count me in.

[Rockin Robbins]

Arrrrrrr Matey an a pint 'o grog to wash it down with!:arrgh!:

[Hitman]

have personally written to Neal about this matter, but received no response. I will hope this means that he and other moderators are simply too busy to have responded to my mail. However, I fear that what it really means is that the bullies' mods generate so much site traffic that it would be bad business to require that they behave in a civil manner to the low profile and meek members such as myself. Better to let them wipe their feet on people such as myself than risk having them go offsite and open their own separate Web distribution and discussion home.


I have no idea why Neal has not replied to you -probably because he is too busy with lots of things, including real life- but you can be SURE that there is no preferential treatment or additional tolerance to anyone here at subsim.com just because he has done a mod that "generates more traffic" :nope: Subsim was here before all those supermods and modders, and will be here -if God allows- when all those mods are a long forgotten thing.

Moderators might want to hold the trigger sometimes because we do not like to act as a Gestapo, and ultimately we prefer to allow some discussions that go around the limit line rather than managing this as a Kindergarten., But anytime you have a complaint about a specific action of another member that you think has crossed the line, you can contact a moderator per PM and you will for sure get a reply. Sadly Neal can't reply to all the mails and PMs he received, but moderators will try their best, be sure :yep:

[Digital_Trucker]

And a hearty aye (and amen) here, too.:up:

Life's too short to waste time bickering (although I do occasionally love a good argument:oops:,guess I shoulda been a lawyer)

Peace out, y'all.:sunny:

[MarkShot]

but you can be SURE that there is no preferential treatment or additional tolerance to anyone here at subsim.com just because he has done a mod that "generates more traffic"

I think you have very precisely described the transformation which has happened in certain forums over the last year or so. Behavior is no longer evaluated in a disconnected and objective fashion. Instead various teams now have license to bully those who thet consider to not provide adequate praise and promotion of their particular mod.

It is indeed a sad day, since open discourse has suffered and this has reflected badly on both the site and the moderators. If not for the fact that someone pointed this thread out to me (who has also been stomped on in a preferential fashion), I would have simply given up this issue and the ethics of the site already.

Thanks.

[aanker]

Certainly ....... re: post #1 etc.

Happy Hunting!

Art

[Nauticalwolf]

Hey to all,

I am very new to modding SH4, I have in the past "tinkered" with CIV I, II, III, and IV; Morrrowind, Oblivion, Freelancer, Galciv I and II, MOO I, II and III, B17, Falcon 4.0, Mech Warrior II, III and IV, Sea Dogs, Cut Throats and Pirates.

I have worked many years in graphic art and my knowledge of modding is very limited (I basically do graphics/textures {would like to learn more :know: }).

I have played Silent Service I and II as well as SH1 and 2 (never quite got around to getting 3).

I came here to subsim because I saw so very many talented people adding real value to what started out as an "OK" game.

Please "be excellent, to one another"

[DeepIron]

Making the world a more pleasant place... one forum post at a time.:cool:

Count me in shipmates...:up:

[les green01]

i must have really miss something,but i hate to see subsim go down this path so h*ll yes i'll sign

[CDR Resser]

Aye. I'll sign 'yer chit. Now get this diaper off my head.

Respectfully Submitted;
CDR Resser

[AVGWarhawk]

but you can be SURE that there is no preferential treatment or additional tolerance to anyone here at subsim.com just because he has done a mod that "generates more traffic"

I think you have very precisely described the transformation which has happened in certain forums over the last year or so. Behavior is no longer evaluated in a disconnected and objective fashion. Instead various teams now have license to bully those who thet consider to not provide adequate praise and promotion of their particular mod.

It is indeed a sad day, since open discourse has suffered and this has reflected badly on both the site and the moderators. If not for the fact that someone pointed this thread out to me (who has also been stomped on in a preferential fashion), I would have simply given up this issue and the ethics of the site already.

Thanks.

Markshot,

You have a PM from me in the works. Standby :D

[Captain Vlad]

Original post gets an 'Oh Hell Yeah!' from Captain Vlad.

[Nuc]

Arrrrrrr Matey an a pint 'o grog to wash it down with!:arrgh!:

I'll drink to that:arrgh!:

[swdw]

Aye. I'll sign 'yer chit. Now get this diaper off my head.

Respectfully Submitted;
CDR Resser:rotfl::lol::rotfl:

Start posting . . . fast!

[ryoga_77]

I add my sig to the others.

This planet's surface is 66% is covered by water so i see it as quite a playground where both GWX,RFB,ROW,RsRd and OM can each find a corner where to play to their heart's content.
:rock:

[Yorktown_Class]

Im in:up:

[JREX53]

Aye, count me in.

[joea]

Aye, I'll sign, just remember we Grey Wolves are not nearly as nasty as some paint us out to be. :up: We are cuddly even, just don't rub a sheep over yourself and you'll be fine. :o

[gj2020]

Aye

[ryoga_77]

i stand to be counted

[1480]

Wow, my distant creepy uncle may have been right all of these years, bisexuality just doubles your chances of getting lucky at two in the morning..... who would have thunk it.... :rotfl:

Seriously, love both games and glad I have the oppurtunity to play them both!

[Onkel Neal]

have personally written to Neal about this matter, but received no response. I will hope this means that he and other moderators are simply too busy to have responded to my mail. However, I fear that what it really means is that the bullies' mods generate so much site traffic that it would be bad business to require that they behave in a civil manner to the low profile and meek members such as myself. Better to let them wipe their feet on people such as myself than risk having them go offsite and open their own separate Web distribution and discussion home.


I have no idea why Neal has not replied to you -probably because he is too busy with lots of things, including real life- but you can be SURE that there is no preferential treatment or additional tolerance to anyone here at subsim.com just because he has done a mod that "generates more traffic" :nope: Subsim was here before all those supermods and modders, and will be here -if God allows- when all those mods are a long forgotten thing.

Moderators might want to hold the trigger sometimes because we do not like to act as a Gestapo, and ultimately we prefer to allow some discussions that go around the limit line rather than managing this as a Kindergarten., But anytime you have a complaint about a specific action of another member that you think has crossed the line, you can contact a moderator per PM and you will for sure get a reply. Sadly Neal can't reply to all the mails and PMs he received, but moderators will try their best, be sure :yep:

Well said. One of the problems with straightening out these squabbles is Subsim does not like to play the authority card except as a last resort. Every one of the folks who has been involved in these arguements sincerely believes they are in the right. And there is no easy solution that will make everyone happy. That's why we are now going to be stricter with regards to the bickering and counter bickering in the SH forums.

As for my not replying to e-mails, I really try to keep up with every one but seriously, the volume can be overwhelming. Some require immediate answers and usually an e-mail carries with it some task in addition to answering (resetting passwords, changing forum e-mails, checking spam, moderating a forum squabble, checking a dead link, thanking a nice donor, checking a Subsim Almanac order, pursuing an idea presented by a forum member/moderator, responding to game developers, updating the news, ETC x100). I read every e-mail but I find that I cannot answer every one, at least not right away. As I am sure happens with you, often you have some e-mail you intend to answer but you need a bit of time to write out a decent reply, and the e-mails keep coming in and they "sink" down the list.... before you know it you have 180 e-mails to reply to and some of them get pretty old. On Saturdays I will get up and start going through old e-mails but I rarely catch up :(

I love you guys, sorry if I do not get back to you on something.

thanks
Neal

[nikimcbee]

have personally written to Neal about this matter, but received no response. I will hope this means that he and other moderators are simply too busy to have responded to my mail. However, I fear that what it really means is that the bullies' mods generate so much site traffic that it would be bad business to require that they behave in a civil manner to the low profile and meek members such as myself. Better to let them wipe their feet on people such as myself than risk having them go offsite and open their own separate Web distribution and discussion home.


I have no idea why Neal has not replied to you -probably because he is too busy with lots of things, including real life- but you can be SURE that there is no preferential treatment or additional tolerance to anyone here at subsim.com just because he has done a mod that "generates more traffic" :nope: Subsim was here before all those supermods and modders, and will be here -if God allows- when all those mods are a long forgotten thing.

Moderators might want to hold the trigger sometimes because we do not like to act as a Gestapo, and ultimately we prefer to allow some discussions that go around the limit line rather than managing this as a Kindergarten., But anytime you have a complaint about a specific action of another member that you think has crossed the line, you can contact a moderator per PM and you will for sure get a reply. Sadly Neal can't reply to all the mails and PMs he received, but moderators will try their best, be sure :yep:

Well said. One of the problems with straightening out these squabbles is Subsim does not like to play the authority card except as a last resort. Every one of the folks who has been involved in these arguements sincerely believes they are in the right. And there is no easy solution that will make everyone happy. That's why we are now going to be stricter with regards to the bickering and counter bickering in the SH forums.

As for my not replying to e-mails, I really try to keep up with every one but seriously, the volume can be overwhelming. Some require immediate answers and usually an e-mail carries with it some task in addition to answering (resetting passwords, changing forum e-mails, checking spam, moderating a forum squabble, checking a dead link, thanking a nice donor, checking a Subsim Almanac order, pursuing an idea presented by a forum member/moderator, responding to game developers, updating the news, ETC x100). I read every e-mail but I find that I cannot answer every one, at least not right away. As I am sure happens with you, often you have some e-mail you intend to answer but you need a bit of time to write out a decent reply, and the e-mails keep coming in and they "sink" down the list.... before you know it you have 180 e-mails to reply to and some of them get pretty old. On Saturdays I will get up and start going through old e-mails but I rarely catch up :(

I love you guys, sorry if I do not get back to you on something.

thanks
Neal

Sounds like you need a secretary:hmm: .

[Dude]

Amen

Could not agree more

[Schroeder]

Signed.:up:

[Arclight]

You've got my vote. :up:

Good to see the issues exposed for all to see, instead of it sweltering beneath the surface. ;)

[keltos01]

I concur

[Anachronous]

Great post! Although I dont generally make my own mods for SH, I have been modding games for years and also help manage a modding community for another game.

One thing I often remind people, is that most mods out there start out as one person's desire to change the game to their liking, and they are sharing their work with us. They are not here to serve us, nor here to listen to our demands.

If we dont like a mod, we arent forced to use it. Modders are not obligated to listen to our requests, but choose to do so of their own free will. No one is getting paid.

[Zero Niner]

I fully and whole-heartedly agree with the sentiments expressed by the TS.

IOW: I'll drink to that!

[Fearless]

Signed.:up:

[clayp]

HERE HERE!!!!!..A great big YOU BET!!!!...signing from me..No one has been attacked more then me...I have been called a cheater, a troll an idiot and more..This is a great post!!!!....:up:

[d5j55]

absolutly

[Hylander_1314]

Very nice. Wholeheartedly agree. One of the reasons I stopped doing mods, was the silly behavior that accompanied the world of modding. Aside from lack of time to get things done in a timely manner.

[Peto]

email...I really try to keep up with every one but seriously, the volume can be overwhelming... and the e-mails keep coming in and they "sink" down the list....


I've sent a lot of good emails past crush depth in this manner ;).

[Lynx2069]

Agreed.