Kpt. Lehmann
04-11-08, 11:42 PM
All player U-boat ranges have been updated in GWX 2.1.
Please see notes at bottom of post.
Please also note, as Pablo has discovered that the SH3 map is too large at the equator and much worse near the poles as you'd expect on a mercator projection map...
Paraphrased excerpts from Pablo's posts at the Lair:
"Given that the "world" of Silent Hunter III is much larger than it is in real life, if we grant "historical" actual ranges to player U-boats may oftern not have enough fuel to reach their assigned patrol areas and return to base unless they are refueled, such as with Type IXB missions to the U.S. Atlantic seaboard.
It is difficult to address the problem, since the difference between "real world" range and Silent Hunter III range varies with latitude: north-south offsets are always about 10% larger in the Silent Hunter III world than in real life, but the east-west offset starts at 10% at the equator and just gets bigger as you move further away from the equator.
Distance margins of error approach being infinitely larger as you approach the north pole. For example, the real-life distance between one degree of longitude at 72 degrees North or South latitude is 120 kilometers in Silent Hunter III, but is only 34 kilometers in real life; at 45 degrees North or South latitude, the real-life distance is about 79 km compared to 120 km in Silent Hunter III.
This can make missions against Russian convoys are real pain in the saddle tanks."
This is a major/serious discovery that demands reactionary modification.
Strict historical ranges in SH3/GWX are not possible. The best I could do with fuel-range alterations due to all the limiting factors in SH3 is to basically give them a proper "curve" gradient.
Though they will not be historically accurate, they will be better in a proportionally accurate sense within the confines of the SH3 platform.
As a result, I have given the Type II boats 33% more range as they generally operate far north of the equator... where map extension/distortion is at its worst.
I have given all other player U-boat types 25% more range as they will be called on to generally work areas closer to the equator... where map distortion is less.
Surfaced range values found in the .sim files are stated in nautical miles. In-game values are of course given in kilometers.
ALL new ranges were determined at 12 knots speed via using the navigation officer range estimation function over 15-20 minutes at 1x time compression. (Using this function too quickly will yield inaccurate estimates. Apparently the game engine needs a few minutes for physics calculations to stabilize at steady speeds. The variance is more noticeable when dropping out of progressively higher TC settings. Range estimations while using time compression are only generally accurate... with wide +/- margins of error.)
Plugging real life values into the .sim file for range vs knots is useless. It must be adjusted, then tested in game... then re-adjusted as necessary until correct in-game.
New (final) ranges as for GWX 2.1.
Type IIA (range for this boat is now modelled as being that of the Type IIB)
New range: approx 4400 km
Type IID
New Range: approx 8500 km
Type VIIB
New range: approx 15000 km
Type VIIC
New range: approx 15000 km
Type IXB
New range: approx 20100 km
Type IXC
New range: approx 25500 km
Type IXD2
New range: approx 55000 km
Type XXI
New range: approx 25800 km
******************************************
All ranges are based on quotes by Eberhard Rossler from "The U-boat - The evolution and technical history of German submarines."
Type IIB- 1800 nm (3333 km) @ 12 kts
(+33% yielded in-game target of approx 4400 km)
Type IID- 3450 nm (6389 km) @ 12 kts
(+33% yielded in-game target of 8500 km)
Type VIIB- 6500 nm (12038 km) @ 12 kts
(+25% yielded in-game target of 15047 km)
Type VIIC- 6500 nm (12038 km) @ 12 kts
(+25% yielded in-game target of 15047 km)
Type IXB- 8700 nm (16112 km) @ 12 kts
(+25% yielded in-game target of 20140 km)
Type IXC- 11000 nm (20372 km) @ 12 kts
(+25% yielded in-game target of 25465 km)
Type IXD2- 23700 nm (43892 km) @ 12 kts
(+25% yielded in-game target of 54865 km)
Type XXI- 11150 nm (20650 km) @ 12 kts
(+25% yielded in-game target of 25813 km)
NOTES:
It appears to me that the SH3 devs used the exact same source as we have... as all stock values and speeds for surfaced performance of RL U-boats were identical to the Rossler quotes.
However, it is obvious to me based on in-game performance that they did not effectively take into account the simulator effects of engine power or hydrodynamic forces effect on range.
All tests in GWX were done in 4 mps winds at 12 knots.
(based on black needle actual speed... not ahead full etc... or ordering 12 knots with only 11 knots actual speed showing.)
When ranges are estimated by the navigation officer in SH3, several minutes must pass while cruising at a constant speed.
Navigation officer estimations are initially wild after coming out of any elevated TC... but settle-out over 10-15 minutes at constant speed after dropping to 1xTC.
No range estimation testing was done (or will be done) using time compression. Time compression worsens any calculation in SH3. (Only very rough range estimations can be obtained while using TC.)
IMPORTANT!!!
Regarding drag settings, surface draft, and engine power settings... changes to any will cause U-boat ranges to (AGAIN) need complete overhaul/rework. Even small changes will cause drastic changes in total range.
Plugging real life values into the .sim file for range vs knots is useless. It must be adjusted, then tested in game... then re-adjusted as necessary until correct in-game.
Engine upgrades have been removed in GWX 2.1. Engine upgrades in SH3 are not historically accurate. Furthermore, if engine upgrades were retained in GWX, 'fuel consumption' would increase... again reducing maximum patrol ranges, and rendering any methodical/definitive solution rather impossible.
Special thanks to Penelope_Grey, Jimbuna, and Danlisa for their assistance, input, and involvement with this modification following Pablo's discovery of the problem.
Please see notes at bottom of post.
Please also note, as Pablo has discovered that the SH3 map is too large at the equator and much worse near the poles as you'd expect on a mercator projection map...
Paraphrased excerpts from Pablo's posts at the Lair:
"Given that the "world" of Silent Hunter III is much larger than it is in real life, if we grant "historical" actual ranges to player U-boats may oftern not have enough fuel to reach their assigned patrol areas and return to base unless they are refueled, such as with Type IXB missions to the U.S. Atlantic seaboard.
It is difficult to address the problem, since the difference between "real world" range and Silent Hunter III range varies with latitude: north-south offsets are always about 10% larger in the Silent Hunter III world than in real life, but the east-west offset starts at 10% at the equator and just gets bigger as you move further away from the equator.
Distance margins of error approach being infinitely larger as you approach the north pole. For example, the real-life distance between one degree of longitude at 72 degrees North or South latitude is 120 kilometers in Silent Hunter III, but is only 34 kilometers in real life; at 45 degrees North or South latitude, the real-life distance is about 79 km compared to 120 km in Silent Hunter III.
This can make missions against Russian convoys are real pain in the saddle tanks."
This is a major/serious discovery that demands reactionary modification.
Strict historical ranges in SH3/GWX are not possible. The best I could do with fuel-range alterations due to all the limiting factors in SH3 is to basically give them a proper "curve" gradient.
Though they will not be historically accurate, they will be better in a proportionally accurate sense within the confines of the SH3 platform.
As a result, I have given the Type II boats 33% more range as they generally operate far north of the equator... where map extension/distortion is at its worst.
I have given all other player U-boat types 25% more range as they will be called on to generally work areas closer to the equator... where map distortion is less.
Surfaced range values found in the .sim files are stated in nautical miles. In-game values are of course given in kilometers.
ALL new ranges were determined at 12 knots speed via using the navigation officer range estimation function over 15-20 minutes at 1x time compression. (Using this function too quickly will yield inaccurate estimates. Apparently the game engine needs a few minutes for physics calculations to stabilize at steady speeds. The variance is more noticeable when dropping out of progressively higher TC settings. Range estimations while using time compression are only generally accurate... with wide +/- margins of error.)
Plugging real life values into the .sim file for range vs knots is useless. It must be adjusted, then tested in game... then re-adjusted as necessary until correct in-game.
New (final) ranges as for GWX 2.1.
Type IIA (range for this boat is now modelled as being that of the Type IIB)
New range: approx 4400 km
Type IID
New Range: approx 8500 km
Type VIIB
New range: approx 15000 km
Type VIIC
New range: approx 15000 km
Type IXB
New range: approx 20100 km
Type IXC
New range: approx 25500 km
Type IXD2
New range: approx 55000 km
Type XXI
New range: approx 25800 km
******************************************
All ranges are based on quotes by Eberhard Rossler from "The U-boat - The evolution and technical history of German submarines."
Type IIB- 1800 nm (3333 km) @ 12 kts
(+33% yielded in-game target of approx 4400 km)
Type IID- 3450 nm (6389 km) @ 12 kts
(+33% yielded in-game target of 8500 km)
Type VIIB- 6500 nm (12038 km) @ 12 kts
(+25% yielded in-game target of 15047 km)
Type VIIC- 6500 nm (12038 km) @ 12 kts
(+25% yielded in-game target of 15047 km)
Type IXB- 8700 nm (16112 km) @ 12 kts
(+25% yielded in-game target of 20140 km)
Type IXC- 11000 nm (20372 km) @ 12 kts
(+25% yielded in-game target of 25465 km)
Type IXD2- 23700 nm (43892 km) @ 12 kts
(+25% yielded in-game target of 54865 km)
Type XXI- 11150 nm (20650 km) @ 12 kts
(+25% yielded in-game target of 25813 km)
NOTES:
It appears to me that the SH3 devs used the exact same source as we have... as all stock values and speeds for surfaced performance of RL U-boats were identical to the Rossler quotes.
However, it is obvious to me based on in-game performance that they did not effectively take into account the simulator effects of engine power or hydrodynamic forces effect on range.
All tests in GWX were done in 4 mps winds at 12 knots.
(based on black needle actual speed... not ahead full etc... or ordering 12 knots with only 11 knots actual speed showing.)
When ranges are estimated by the navigation officer in SH3, several minutes must pass while cruising at a constant speed.
Navigation officer estimations are initially wild after coming out of any elevated TC... but settle-out over 10-15 minutes at constant speed after dropping to 1xTC.
No range estimation testing was done (or will be done) using time compression. Time compression worsens any calculation in SH3. (Only very rough range estimations can be obtained while using TC.)
IMPORTANT!!!
Regarding drag settings, surface draft, and engine power settings... changes to any will cause U-boat ranges to (AGAIN) need complete overhaul/rework. Even small changes will cause drastic changes in total range.
Plugging real life values into the .sim file for range vs knots is useless. It must be adjusted, then tested in game... then re-adjusted as necessary until correct in-game.
Engine upgrades have been removed in GWX 2.1. Engine upgrades in SH3 are not historically accurate. Furthermore, if engine upgrades were retained in GWX, 'fuel consumption' would increase... again reducing maximum patrol ranges, and rendering any methodical/definitive solution rather impossible.
Special thanks to Penelope_Grey, Jimbuna, and Danlisa for their assistance, input, and involvement with this modification following Pablo's discovery of the problem.