Look what Ducimus did!

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

I find a Bilge Rat as a Dive Officer instead of the original officer. That don't seem right as sometimes the DO has an officer's cap. Anyway to change this?

[Ducimus]

If i bothered to explain the design decisions involved in that, would it make a difference?

By the way, the "bildge rat" that you sometimes see with an officers cap, is a chief petty officer. In stock, they wore all kahki's with an officers cap. I changed them to kahki pants, blue shirt, and officers cap - a mix of the two so their easier to distinguish from an officer and the enlisted crewman.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Yeah, it would make a difference, Duciboy.

I also find other Bilge Rats in the DO position when they relieve the watch. This time they look like deck hands. The Officer of The Deck is waaay in the back in the conning tower. Is this historically correct? I understand you made them out so they're recognizable but was this how it was?

[Ducimus]

I did the best i could , that the confines of the game would allow.

First of all, theres only so many officers to work with on any given watch.

Secondly, given theres only so much to work with, i do not like the idea adding MORE officers or CPO's. A Top heavy crew to me is unacceptable. Then add in the fact that officers and CPO's can gain special abilities. Too many abiilties, too much efficiency. Add more officers? I don't F'ing think so! If you want a super crew, feel free to edit the subs UPC file and have an all kakhi cew for all i F'ing care, but dont expect me to do it for you!

Thirdly, The core mechanics behind crew positions are coded for uboats! There is no direct translation in the game that is the same to the needed crew positions in a fleet boat. So one is forced to shoehorn it.

Forthly, i had little choice on what to put in the DO's position since i moved the OOD to the conning tower. Since the OOD is what allows controls to the subs navigation and such, It made less sense to me to have a swabbie up in the conning tower then a Petty officer as a diving officer. Also, the CT had a couple officers in it historicallyl, so I had to make a choice between the two, guess which one went with?!

Fifthly, nobodies making you use the mod. If you don't like it, change it yourself, or use another mod and stop wasting my time.

[John Channing]

Allow me to open this door and allow a nice cool breeze in here.








Ahhhhhhh... that's better. I am sure everyone is much cooler and calmer now.

Don't thank me... it's all part of the service.

JCC

[Dowly]

Easy there Duc! :lol: The man's just curious why you made it the way it is. ;)

[Jimbuna]

I find a Bilge Rat as a Dive Officer instead of the original officer. That don't seem right as sometimes the DO has an officer's cap. Anyway to change this?

I've had a look on my install and see no resemblance to any 'bilge rat' as you put it :nope:

[Ducimus]

The only thing further i care to add to this thread, is that there is a reason why the CPO in the control room crew is who takes the DO position during battle stations. It was an asthetical compromise, because.. could it be... i was very well aware of what i was putting in the diving officer position? :shifty: Nahhhh.. no way, i just hap hazzardly place crewman willy nilly without much forethought. :rotfl:

edit:

Easy there Duc! :lol: The man's just curious why you made it the way it is. ;)

Looks more like im being called out to me. If theres sarchasm involved, im not seeing it.

[CDR Resser]

As a neutral observer to this discussion, would it not be better to change the name of the thread to avoid unnecessary rancor. It certainly sounds like an accusation, the way it is titled.
Perhaps something more helpful as to the subject, such as Control Room Crew Compliment in TMO.

Respectfully Submitted;
CDR Resser

[Soundman]

Man ! Just my opinion, but I personally could give a (bilge) rats ass about who is at what position.[pardon my french, I just couldn't resist that one] I've never paid any attention to that aspect. As long as the game plays the way I wish it would, and it does thanks to Duci, I'll never complain about such an issue. If that is the worst of our worries, compared to where we once were, we're sitting pretty good in the SH4 world !

[Dowly]

Man ! Just my opinion, but I personally could give a (bilge) rats ass about who is at what position. I never paid any attention to that aspect. As long as the game plays the way I wish it would, and it does thanks to Duci, I'l never complain about such an issue. If that is the worst of our worries, compared to where we once were, we're sitting pretty good in the SH4 world !

Well it seems to bother the OP, so why not discuss about it? Wont hurt anyone. ;)

[Ducimus]

As a neutral observer to this discussion, would it not be better to change the name of the thread to avoid unnecessary rancor. It certainly sounds like an accusation, the way it is titled.

Combine the accusatory title

With this belittling tone:
Yeah, it would make a difference, Duciboy.
Boy?

With my heightend sense of stress enduced irritability.....

And yeah, im going to sound angry. If DavyJonesFootlocker was just being sarchastic, then i apologize for my angry tone.

This is a mole hill, not a mountain.

[CDR Resser]

As a neutral observer to this discussion, would it not be better to change the name of the thread to avoid unnecessary rancor. It certainly sounds like an accusation, the way it is titled.
Combine the accusatory title

With this belittling tone:
Yeah, it would make a difference, Duciboy. Boy?

With my heightend sense of stress enduced irritability.....

And yeah, im going to sound angry. If DavyJonesFootlocker was just being sarchastic, then i apologize for my angry tone.

This is a mole hill, not a mountain.
Pop a cold one, or more, tonight, Ducimus. My treat. All that stress'll kill 'ya. :up:

Respectfully Submitted;
CDR Resser

[Jimbuna]

As a neutral observer to this discussion, would it not be better to change the name of the thread to avoid unnecessary rancor. It certainly sounds like an accusation, the way it is titled.

Combine the accusatory title

With this belittling tone:
Yeah, it would make a difference, Duciboy.
Boy?

With my heightend sense of stress enduced irritability.....

And yeah, im going to sound angry. If DavyJonesFootlocker was just being sarchastic, then i apologize for my angry tone.

This is a mole hill, not a mountain.

I suppose the reference 'Duciboy' could be perceived as antagonistic or disrespectful....but no more than I've witnessed on other threads.

Nice mod BTW.

[Ducimus]

Well, im tired, cranky, irritable, and in many things, im just too burnt out to care anymore. Other then that i make no excuses.

Nice mod BTW.

Thanks.

I know one thing. Im never doing/managing a mod this large ever again. What started as a quick fix or unoffical patch to get the game playable, has turned into a "supermod" . I never planned, or intended for this mod to go as far along as it has. It just sort of grew on me. Nowadays, i guess its kinda like trying to keep a 6 foot aligator in a 4 foot fishtank. :rotfl:

[JREX53]

DavyJonesLocker,

Where does it say in any manual that the Diving Officers position had to
be manned by an officer - none that I am aware of.

I also take offense of you calling a Chief Petty Officer, 1st Class Petty Officer,
or even a 2nd Class Petty Officer a Bilge Rat. Each one of those ranks would
have spent more time on a sub toilet, then you have spent playing the game
or even been on a submarine.

For your information, they would put the best QUALIFIED person in that
position, no matter what his rating was.

[JoeCorrado]

I am pretty sure that nearly all of us would agree that the modders here like Ducimus and many others should be thanked and appreciated for all the work that they do, all of it just because of their good citizenship to the SH community.

Doesn't matter so much whether we all want to include their mods in our game or not, just the simple fact that they have made the effort and posted the results. Good, bad or otherwise every effort is appreciated and none should ever be criticized or belittled for their efforts. No matter whether their work is targeted to the hard core, the arm chair, or the shooting gallery players- these friends of the community have a little something for everybody. The number one thing in my book that makes the game so fun and always new.

A big thank you to each and every one the modders here. Keep 'em coming! :up:

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Personally, I dont give a crap who's standing infront of me, as long as they do their job and do it well, I'm happy.

[Ducimus]

I'd like to reiterate, that this topic is an ant hill.....

It is not, the Sierra Nevada.....

[kylesplanet]

Well I certainly didn't care for the "Duciboy" comment. Ducimus has put more effort into making SH4 a great game than any single person I can think of. Hell, I don't see how he has managed to keep all of this going like he has, especially working pretty much by himself on a huge mod.

BTW, Ducimus works on the fleetboats. He and a hand full of others (you know who you are) are the ones who will keep the Allied end of the game up so I would suggest a thank you here and there instead of insults. Otherwise, we will all be stuck with another uboat sim within a year or two.

Duci you have my heartfelt thanks for the countless hours you spend making the PTO better, I really do appreciate it.:up:

[modisch]

When I first read the subject line, I was expecting the first sentence to be:

He made the game more engaging, challenging, and enjoyable for everyone!

At least, that's how I'd have followed it up. What started with him just "Flavoring to taste" quickly became the number one reason I was playing SH4. I have nothing but respect and appreciation for the hairpulling and teethgrinding that it takes to shepherd such a project for so long.

So, thanks Ducimus.

-m

[Jimbuna]

Well, im tired, cranky, irritable, and in many things, im just too burnt out to care anymore. Other then that i make no excuses.

Nice mod BTW.

Thanks.

I know one thing. Im never doing/managing a mod this large ever again. What started as a quick fix or unoffical patch to get the game playable, has turned into a "supermod" . I never planned, or intended for this mod to go as far along as it has. It just sort of grew on me. Nowadays, i guess its kinda like trying to keep a 6 foot aligator in a 4 foot fishtank. :rotfl:

I do empathise (the alligator analogy).....It gets me to wondering what analogy might be used when a supermod the size of GWX eventually comes over to SHIV.....perhaps something along the lines of:

'trying to keep a whale in a goldfish bowl' :rotfl: :rotfl:

In the meantime I'll continue to play both and continue to scale that learning curve.

[Rockin Robbins]

DJFL, you stand accused of disrespect and taunting a senior modder, how do you plead?

You mean Duciboy?

How do you plead?

Why'd they put a bilge rat in the judgeship? I want a REAL judge. You're wearing khakis. What's going on here?

How do you plead? You must plead before I find you guilty and pronounce sentence.

How do I know? I don't even think a bilge rat can be a judge. Don't you look familiar?

Last chance before I adjudicate you guilty without plea and sentence you.

You look just like one of those bilge rats Duciboy put in the control room! What do you think you're pulling? I want a real judge.

I find you guilty of first degree disrespect for a senior modder. I find you guilty of second degree taunting a senior modder. I hereby sentence you to be hung by the neck until you are dead. Sentence to be carried out immediately. Please hurry gentlemen, I have to get back to my other job in the control room.

[kikn79]

Well I certainly didn't care for the "Duciboy" comment. Ducimus has put more effort into making SH4 a great game than any single person I can think of. Hell, I don't see how he has managed to keep all of this going like he has, especially working pretty much by himself on a huge mod.

BTW, Ducimus works on the fleetboats. He and a hand full of others (you know who you are) are the ones who will keep the Allied end of the game up so I would suggest a thank you here and there instead of insults. Otherwise, we will all be stuck with another uboat sim within a year or two.

Duci you have my heartfelt thanks for the countless hours you spend making the PTO better, I really do appreciate it.:up:

Well said!!! I agree whole heartedly!!

"Duciboy" is THE MAN!!!!

Chuck

[danlisa]

I find you guilty of first degree disrespect for a senior modder.
RR, I find you guilty of insulting Duciboy.

How dare you reference him as 'senior' ageism has no place at Subsim.

I find you guilty of second degree taunting a senior modder.
Strike two! You're walking a fine line here young man.:stare:

One more and you can hang by your left nut.:lol:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BS over. There is no hierarchy at Subsim. Please don't place people into groups, Senior, Junior or Muppet. We're all the same regardless.

[Dowly]

Oh for poo's sake! Yes, the title is a bit of a two barreled thingy, but who judges a post by it's title? Isnt it what is in the actualy post that matters?

Right, the original post says:

"I find a Bilge Rat as a Dive Officer instead of the original officer. That don't seem right as sometimes the DO has an officer's cap. Anyway to change this?"

A simple question, ok nothing bad at that, I mean, this is the SH4 forum with the helpfull and open atmosphere right?

Ok, next Ducimus replies:

"If i bothered to explain the design decisions involved in that, would it make a difference?

By the way, the "bildge rat" that you sometimes see with an officers cap, is a chief petty officer. In stock, they wore all kahki's with an officers cap. I changed them to kahki pants, blue shirt, and officers cap - a mix of the two so their easier to distinguish from an officer and the enlisted crewman."

Ok, again, a simple reply, nothing bad in it.

Now, the next one is what this thread seems to have grown to be about:

"Yeah, it would make a difference, Duciboy."

and immediatly after that he asks Ducimus, "is this historically correct".

To which Ducimus does answer and kindly adds "Fifthly, nobodies making you use the mod. If you don't like it, change it yourself, or use another mod and stop wasting my time." to the end.

So, my question is, who did what and when? Because I certainly cant see anything else than two members having a small go at each other. Both could've replied in a bit friendlier tone. :yep:

PS. What's wrong with 'Duciboy'? :huh:

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Ok, ok. First off I'm not accusing Ducimus about anything. I'm asking the reasons behind his changes, that's all. My language can get a bit misunderstood I said 'Duciboy' and 'Bilge Rat' in no malicious term. In his FAQ he said we can make changes so I didn't ask him to make any changes for me. All I wanted to know was how. Geez, talk about flying off the handle. Think I'm gonna open a window and escape to the free world. I agree this has blown out of size. I like TMO gameplay.

[bluedingo]

First off, this isn't a comment against DavyFonesFootLocker.
Here's a little message for any critics of mod-makers who aren't being constructive.
http://www.freewebs.com/13243adsfd/vader%5Fstencil%5Fheader.jpg
:D
Oh, and constructive comment. According to www.juliett484.org (http://www.juliett484.com), the OOD is in the precisely correct place. Nice job.

[TDK1044]

If we took all the hot air generated by a small group of very talented modders, we'd have enough steam for a very large sauna. But then we'd have people complaining about how intense the steam should be.

Buy the game. Install the game. Mod the game to taste and enjoy it.

We spend about a third of our lives sleeping and about a third of our lives working. Are we really going to waste any of the remaing third on this kind of nonsense?

Nurse...the screens!

[Dowly]

If we took all the hot air generated by a small group of very talented modders, we'd have enough steam for a very large sauna. But then we'd have people complaining about how intense the steam should be.

Buy the game. Install the game. Mod the game to taste and enjoy it.

We spend about a third of our lives sleeping and about a third of our lives working. Are we really going to waste any of the remaing third on this kind of nonsense?

Nurse...the screens!

Yes. :p

[Jimbuna]

Certainly Doctor.....Just as soon as I finish my cigarette.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1988/hellonurseed6.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[AVGWarhawk]

I have seen some useless threads and this one is darn near the top of the list.