[WIP]Playable PocketBB

[Xantrokoles]

Lots of people want/wanted a playable Pocketbattleship:

This one is a non playable:
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7456/sh42008040614311640ci5.th.jpg (http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh42008040614311640ci5.jpg)

And this is the current stand of my playable:
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6417/werl2008040614382865tu2.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=werl2008040614382865tu2.jpg)

So if I am working hard I get a alpha ready today, but no stress
Please post Information abot the properties of the Pocket BB Deutschland

[MMarques]

Propulsion:
Shafts: 2
Engines: 8 MAN 9-cylinder diesel
Machinery output at 250 rpm: 52.050 shp
Speed: 26-28,5 knots
Range:
10.000 naut. miles at 20 knots
16.600 naut. miles at 14 knots
17.400 naut. miles at 13 knots

Armament:
Main armament: 6 x 28 cm SK L/52 C28
Secondary armament: 8 x 15 cm SK L/55 C28
Heavy flak: 6 x 10,5 cm Flak L/65 C33
Light flak: 8 x 3,7 cm Flak L/83 C30
Flak - Machine Gun: 8 x 2,0 cm Flak L/65 C30
Torpedo battery: 8 x 53,3 cm tubes

Anything you need, you got it just ask. I have a bunch of books about the Deutschland Class and about the Graf Spee (one of the ships in that class)

Also there's a lot of info at http://www.deutschland-class.dk/

[linerkiller]

That sounds good:o :sunny: ! But how we will control her huge guns?:hmm:
And her torpedo launchers?
And then, keep her 1000-men crew controlled will be a pain:D !
Keep up the good work:up:

[Xantrokoles]

I hate this stupid textures...
They were the reason for a problem while importing...
OK will need some days:-?
But I think it is possible


U have to imagine: every crewman represents some crewman...
And the guns will be AI controlled

[Raptor1]

What's good about the Pocket Battleship is that it doesn't need a new campaign, as they're missions we're practically the same as the U-Boats

Also, Admiral Scheer actually made a raid in the Indian Ocean in 1941, so it's also historical

[Xantrokoles]

Right:)

3d model is playable in the game, but I hate the textures...
usually I could use the standart Textures, but I din't found a way to use the Lightmaptextures(..._0O1.dds)

[Bewolf]

Xantrokoles, if you make this propperly work, you will be my personal hero. Having a surface unit "within" historical background would be fantastic business. And I agree, a Pocket Battleship like the Deutschland (Lützow) would fit perfectly to what campaign opportunities we already have in this game. :up: for this!

[linerkiller]

I hate this stupid textures...
They were the reason for a problem while importing...
OK will need some days:-?
But I think it is possible


U have to imagine: every crewman represents some crewman...
And the guns will be AI controlled Good idea!:yep: But how the stern torpedo launchers will work? Mikhail and his team have modified the U-boot torp launchers to fit his S-100...maybe you can ask him a little help...then to make the torp launcher complex act realistically you can make it act like a gun, that have its own crew and could be pointed in the direction of the intended target. Without changing his elevation ofcourse;) !

[linerkiller]

What's good about the Pocket Battleship is that it doesn't need a new campaign, as they're missions we're practically the same as the U-Boats

Also, Admiral Scheer actually made a raid in the Indian Ocean in 1941, so it's also historical The campaign layer should be modified, so we maight start the campaign early in the war, when Britain was Germany's only enemy, obviously changing the start location to Kiel or Wilhelmshaven

[Xantrokoles]

Right:up:

The thing with a torpedo gun doesn't work I guess...so the torpedoes have to start in the hull.
But is it possible to turn the anim ...E_Door_FLU for 180°?
Cause I need 8 AFT Tubes:-?

@ Mikhayl

Please tell me when u get the textures and especially the lightmaptexture working
thx

The campaign layer should be modified, so we maight start the campaign early in the war, when Britain was Germany's only enemy, obviously changing the start location to Kiel or Wilhelmshaven

Look through the campaign layers for the Indian ocean only for the year 43...
Then u see what u have to do:rotfl:
But AOD is hard working on this thing

[Xantrokoles]

Look here:
left upper corner:Our AI_PocketBB
left lower corner:Our playable BB(very ugly until now)
right upper corner: Texture
right lower corner: Lightmaptexture(other body)
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6061/texturenproblemet1.th.jpg (http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=texturenproblemet1.jpg)

And I only can use one texture, classic style Sh3, but the textures are made for use with lightmaptexture:damn:

[miner1436]

I made a better skin.
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7535/sh4img20080406154312671pr9.jpg (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://load.imageshack.us/)

Credits go to kriller2 for textures from his warship mod.

[Xantrokoles]

Thats a cool Skin...when I would get this O01.dds working I would be very proud when I could use this!

[MMarques]

Yea that skin is very nice, would be great if it could solve the problems.

[gimpy117]

please don't be for 1.5!!!

[Raptor1]

I won't get my hopes up, gimpy...

[MMarques]

It HAS to be for 1.5 :D

[Xantrokoles]

Newest news:
-Shipwakes working
-17 Crew waterboys running arround on the Deck
-I have darken the textures; now it doesn't look too bad, but not as good as the ai_ship
-Propellers working
-Rudder Working

To Do:
-11 heavy AAs
-14 light AAs
-Two Gun Barrels with 6 canons
-High res wachtcrew
-Torpedoes


Mikhayl, is it possible to tell us how u did it with ur Sboat, that it is not possible to dive?
I set the elevation to 0, and the follding speed
But I forgot something?:hmm:

[Xantrokoles]

Thank You!
I didn't belive that the diveplanes are guilty for the dyn dive...
when I drive 0 knt I can't dive...

May u can do it like me...put the diveplanes into the model:smug:

I only now got crashes,because I used the same values for the weapon cfg# s
...am I forced to rename all or iss a random Id task enough?

EDIT:
May u can tell me also how I can make the UZO non chlickable....because I had to add the half 3d model to the uzo 3d model(model was too big for pack3d), and now u got to the UZO when u click on the conning or so...
Thanks in advance:)

[Will-Rommel]

Keep going mate!

I'm very happy that you undertook this huge project!

[MMarques]

The UZO might be usefull for aiming the torpedoes in the future, wouldnt it be possible to place it on top of the bridge?

[Xantrokoles]

Thank u again, Maikahyl!
I randomed all id's...and now I can copy each Id for the sim zon and val file...
God I love this job:rotfl:

The UZO might be usefull for aiming the torpedoes in the future, wouldnt it be possible to place it on top of the bridge?


I don't delete the UZO, you only can't go there by clicking on it...
U can go to UZO by pusching u or use the menu

[MMarques]

Oh I'm sorry I thought you were actualy deleting the UZO from the ship.

Another thing, the numbers on the heavy and light AA are incorrect, you need 6 Heavy AA and 16 light AA guns

[Xantrokoles]

I only now the nubers changed in war...
I think I use the number of the Ai ship..I have to count them again but I am not sure if I have time for making the Guns today....we got time:lol:

But I am sure I can't make the guns playable, only the guns which are in the game.

May u find the thread, where a guy made Battleship guns playable?
Is this a job for u MMarques???

[MMarques]

I gave you the numbers on the AA guns those ships had after their war refits.

As for the Battleship guns I'm looking for that Post but I'm in class so it might take a while. Have to dodge teachers all the time :rotfl:

[Xantrokoles]

Kay, I counted now 32 light and 11 heavy:up:

work over work:p

Here are two Screenshots
-> Textures are not very good, but better than no textures;) (later a texture guru can change that)
->Only the two monster guns are working AI-controlled until now

BIG THANKS TO MIKHAYL FOR HIS HELP!

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/1766/sh42008040716242993vv3.jpg

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8509/sh42008040716255269ls4.jpg

[MMarques]

What a beauty! I've never seen anything like it, cant wait till its finished hehe. Very nice work indeed.

Maybe change the color of the deck for something a little lighter but that's about it :)

[thasaint]

woot!

[Xantrokoles]

What a beauty! I've never seen anything like it, cant wait till its finished hehe. Very nice work indeed.

Maybe change the color of the deck for something a little lighter but that's about it :)
I just thought about the same:huh:

[Will-Rommel]

Is there a way to have the Kriegsmarine flag flying over the ship?

[Raptor1]

Or, Better yet, an Allied flag flying over the ship?

[linerkiller]

Amazing Xantro...outstanding work:o :huh: :o :huh: :huh: :o !!!
But all these Flakvierling mountings all over the ship...:hmm: ...i remember more single mountings, and there weren't any mountings at all in front of the forward heavy turret.

Rough image...but the AA positions are clearly visible

http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/2833/kriegsmarine/battleship/grafspee/grafspeedata.jpg

Hope this could help you in some ways:D ...

[linerkiller]

Or, Better yet, an Allied flag flying over the ship?Why an Allied flag:o ? Sometimes these ships used to steam under false flag to approach Allied ships unaware of their nationality and intentions...before raising the KM flag and stop the ship with a shot across its bow:arrgh!: ...but I don't think this is moddable in the game:damn: ...and then enemy ships will immediately recognise you as enemy:dead: .

Usually, pocket battleships used to sail with the central barrel of each heavy turret trained with a 30 degrees elevation, to give the impression of having four turrets, to disguise themselves as a british old battleship.

obviously these tricks worked only with some :88) merchant ship lookouts.

[Will-Rommel]

An allied flag?

This is a german battleship, and it's built for the u-boat campaign right?

[Raptor1]

I was referring to the false flag thing, I know it wouldn't be possible to change the flag during the game but w/e...

[lancerr]

Pictures of Graf Spee & Admiral Scheer -close up

http://www.admiralgrafspee.de/admiral_graf_spee/gallery/pictures/gallgrafspeeindisquise/gallgrafspeeindisquise04.jpg

http://www.admiralgrafspee.de/admiral_graf_spee/gallery/pictures/gallgrafspeeindisquise/gallgrafspeeindisquise03.jpg

http://www.bismarck-class.dk/shipmodels/german_models/pictures/admiralscheerbonomi/admiralscheerbonomi06.jpg

http://www.bismarck-class.dk/shipmodels/german_models/pictures/admiralscheerbonomi/admiralscheerbonomi08.jpg

http://www.bismarck-class.dk/shipmodels/german_models/pictures/admiralgrafspeetitsch/admiralgrafspeetitsch08.jpg

http://www.bismarck-class.dk/shipmodels/german_models/pictures/admiralgrafspeetitsch/admiralgrafspeetitsch09.jpg

[MMarques]

Here's the AA arrangement of the Admiral Graf Spee, I've marked all the spots where she had her AA guns, note that the 2 2cm guns under the rear 11" turret are not in the correct place at the ingame model, also there's a few extra guns in the ingame model that dont exist.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/2217/grafaala3.gif

these are the 2cm guns

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4330/2cmplanux7.gif

and these are the 3,7cm guns, note that the 3,7cm guns are duals and that's why they are 8 in 4 emplacements.

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5092/37cmplanqt7.gif

Here you can clearly see what I ment about the rear AA guns

http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_directory/germany/photos/cruisers/admiral_graf_spee/admiral_graf_spee_17.JPG


Anyways, I'm doing some more research, if you need anything dont hesitate to ask. As usual, I'l be around :)

[Xantrokoles]

Is there a way to have the Kriegsmarine flag flying over the ship?

I want it for sure, but I have to have a look at it:yep:

Or, Better yet, an Allied flag flying over the ship?

Never ever on my German Crusier I will give an allied flag!

But all these Flakvierling mountings all over the ship...:hmm: ..
Ha I know..on this ship there is no Vierling...:rotfl:
But I haven't spend time into the flags until now and they are on this positions, cause I used my fubuki class as a basic...

And thanks for the images!


Thanks for the images you all and Thanks for the AA gun info Marco!:up:

[MMarques]

Oh another thing, in that last image I uploaded you can see that there's a missing 2cm AA gun near the torpedo tubes but if you take a closer look the emplacement is there so I guess they were detachable.

[Xantrokoles]

The 8 25mm are Deck Guns???

[M. Sarsfield]

This will be fun blowing merchies out of the water with a pocket battleship. It will be fun to scrap it up with some allied DD's and CA's, too.

[MMarques]

There's no 25mm guns on there, if you mean the 2cm ones they're all singles and I believe there's some avaliable for the U-Boats.

EDIT: Just checked again and they're the same as the ones the stock IXD2 brings along on the campain mounted on the conning tower.

[Xantrokoles]

This will be fun blowing merchies out of the water with a pocket battleship. It will be fun to scrap it up with some allied DD's and CA's, too.

:p Thats the reason I built it or?
There's no 25mm guns on there, if you mean the 2cm ones they're all singles and I believe there's some avaliable for the U-Boats.

EDIT: Just checked again and they're the same as the ones the stock IXD2 brings along on the campain mounted on the conning tower.

No I mean the ones u forgot on the first picture...
they have an barrel...they are similar to the double dg's of my destroyer but only one canon:lol:

[MMarques]

The Graf Spee didnt have any other AA guns, they're all at that first image.

EDIT: Maybe you ment the secondary guns, those are 15cm guns, there's 8 of them 4 on each side of the ship. They are not used as AA, they're anti-ship guns.

[Xantrokoles]

That's what I mean;)

But I only got 88mm double guns anstett of the 105mm...
may this changed in war..

Soo...now we got arround 40% of the guns working
My Porblem is, that I need one playable flak and one playable Deck gun.
The Flak is not the Problem, because there are the same flaks playable and I can use them:)
Behind the Ai Flaks are 3d people standing
Also there are 18 guys running arround now(they are usually ijn guys but u dont see that:arrgh!: (same ijn gyus used on graf spee/deutschland in game)

Oh I forgot to set the High Res watchcrew, but first my Guns.


Should I add a german 105mm Sub Deck gun on a seperate place or schould I hit it into the model?/may like in my DD?

[Will-Rommel]

Try to hit it into the model of one of those eight 15cm guns, like you did in your Fubuki.

[MMarques]

Yea hide it somewhere, it doesnt have a place on the ship lol.

[gimpy117]

were there any american ships in this role so we could have one for 1.4???

maybe a U.S destoryer or crusier, have it partol the U.S shipping lanes for japanese ships or somthing

i would really love an american ship for 1.4
maybe a new flotilla for it with the ship (like a crusier or somthing)

[MMarques]

US Cruisers didnt usualy sail alone, they usualy had a screen of destroyers or were part of a bigger fleet so there's not realy a point on getting one.
What about getting 1.5, its only 10 bucks :up:

[Xantrokoles]

were there any american ships in this role so we could have one for 1.4???

maybe a U.S destoryer or crusier, have it partol the U.S shipping lanes for japanese ships or somthing

i would really love an american ship for 1.4
maybe a new flotilla for it with the ship (like a crusier or somthing)

When its ready u can convert it in some minutes, just copying every thing with GE or GER into US and so
The realism is ur problem... but I would say he... the atlantic campaing with new playable subs and Mikhayl's Sboat are great enough

[linerkiller]

This morning, while driving like a mad around half italy:damn: , I have had some interesting ideas:

1) AIR COVER: to simulate the use of our Arado 196 shipborne floatplane, our ship may be shown in the map with a mobile marker for the aircover option introduced for the german campaign in the patch 1.5...obviously we wont see our plane taking off and land into the sea, but we can call for an aircraft recon when and where we want. Maybe the little star on our position might be a little annoying but the results would be :up: . Then, the aircraft range must have historical values and the aircaft employed must be an Arado and not the current Zeke.

2)HEAVY AA:for the six 105 mm AA guns you can use the AI controlled guns that you have used in your Fubuki DD

3)MEDIUM CALIBER GUNS: For the 150 mm guns you might use the single mountings used in British DD, they were a little smaller (120mm) , but the shape was nearly the same:hmm: .

What do you think...??

[Bewolf]

Hey Xantrokoles! Say, out of curiousity, did you ever think about contacting some 3d artists for making some interious?

Because, In all honesty, this mod as a huge amount of potential. Thinking about it, I have no idea why nobody got your idea earlier. Playing a single raider is a perfect solution for big gun fights without having to make much fuzz about programming task force management. Beeing a lone raider follows the same line as the U_boats, as was said before, that is beeing lone wolves. If the equipment like Radar, sensors in general and Radio could be adjusted to be propperly used on this mod, then this could be a real, a historic and realstic exprience alternative to the u boat game already present here. Just imagine able to chose a raider career in the menu.

I for once am waiting big time for this mod. And my honest thanks for all the effort you put into this, no matter how it will look when done.

[Xantrokoles]

This morning, while driving like a mad around half italy:damn: , I have had some interesting ideas:

1) AIR COVER: to simulate the use of our Arado 196 shipborne floatplane, our ship may be shown in the map with a mobile marker for the aircover option introduced for the german campaign in the patch 1.5...obviously we wont see our plane taking off and land into the sea, but we can call for an aircraft recon when and where we want. Maybe the little star on our position might be a little annoying but the results would be :up: . Then, the aircraft range must have historical values and the aircaft employed must be an Arado and not the current Zeke.

2)HEAVY AA:for the six 105 mm AA guns you can use the AI controlled guns that you have used in your Fubuki DD

3)MEDIUM CALIBER GUNS: For the 150 mm guns you might use the single mountings used in British DD, they were a little smaller (120mm) , but the shape was nearly the same:hmm: .

What do you think...??

Some older modders told a newbie, it won't work, but when it's ready u can test it for sure!
I don't know where to find that

No bad idea and thanks for ur help , but all guns are working now:up:

MMarques helped me to add real guns( in the Ai_ship there were twinguns, but now on mine there are realistic single, and some other things)

Our important eagle- emblem is there


The guns are working now non playable.
Thanks to jimimadrid for his menumaker; it helped me to delete the conditions on the guns:D

Next: Kriegsmarineflagge



Hey Xantrokoles! Say, out of curiousity, did you ever think about contacting some 3d artists for making some interious?

Because, In all honesty, this mod as a huge amount of potential. Thinking about it, I have no idea why nobody got your idea earlier. Playing a single raider is a perfect solution for big gun fights without having to make much fuzz about programming task force management. Beeing a lone raider follows the same line as the U_boats, as was said before, that is beeing lone wolves. If the equipment like Radar, sensors in general and Radio could be adjusted to be propperly used on this mod, then this could be a real, a historic and realstic exprience alternative to the u boat game already present here. Just imagine able to chose a raider career in the menu.

I for once am waiting big time for this mod. And my honest thanks for all the effort you put into this, no matter how it will look when done.


Yes why don't make a new game, I have the skills for this :rotfl:

NOT

But that's our dream:o

[Bewolf]

This morning, while driving like a mad around half italy:damn: , I have had some interesting ideas:

1) AIR COVER: to simulate the use of our Arado 196 shipborne floatplane, our ship may be shown in the map with a mobile marker for the aircover option introduced for the german campaign in the patch 1.5...obviously we wont see our plane taking off and land into the sea, but we can call for an aircraft recon when and where we want. Maybe the little star on our position might be a little annoying but the results would be :up: . Then, the aircraft range must have historical values and the aircaft employed must be an Arado and not the current Zeke.

2)HEAVY AA:for the six 105 mm AA guns you can use the AI controlled guns that you have used in your Fubuki DD

3)MEDIUM CALIBER GUNS: For the 150 mm guns you might use the single mountings used in British DD, they were a little smaller (120mm) , but the shape was nearly the same:hmm: .

What do you think...??
Some older modders told a newbie, it won't work, but when it's ready u can test it for sure!
I don't know where to find that

No bad idea and thanks for ur help , but all guns are working now:up:

MMarques helped me to add real guns( in the Ai_ship there were twinguns, but now on mine there are realistic single, and some other things)

Our important eagle- emblem is there


The guns are working now non playable.
Thanks to jimimadrid for his menumaker; it helped me to delete the conditions on the guns:D

Next: Kriegsmarineflagge



Hey Xantrokoles! Say, out of curiousity, did you ever think about contacting some 3d artists for making some interious?

Because, In all honesty, this mod as a huge amount of potential. Thinking about it, I have no idea why nobody got your idea earlier. Playing a single raider is a perfect solution for big gun fights without having to make much fuzz about programming task force management. Beeing a lone raider follows the same line as the U_boats, as was said before, that is beeing lone wolves. If the equipment like Radar, sensors in general and Radio could be adjusted to be propperly used on this mod, then this could be a real, a historic and realstic exprience alternative to the u boat game already present here. Just imagine able to chose a raider career in the menu.

I for once am waiting big time for this mod. And my honest thanks for all the effort you put into this, no matter how it will look when done.

Yes why don't make a new game, I have the skills for this :rotfl:

NOT

But that's our dream:o

LoL Xan. Just a bit more ambition here. That's why I asked if it makes sense asking others for help. If it works out in the end is something else entirly :know:

But this is just too good to miss up upon!:rock:

[linerkiller]

[quote=linerkiller]
Some older modders told a newbie, it won't work, but when it's ready u can test it for sure!
I don't know where to find that
No bad idea and thanks for ur help , but all guns are working now:up:
so the aircraft cover idea isnt realizable:cry: ? What's a pity!:(
at least the guns are working...good news!:D

[MMarques]

I believe the recon and taskforce support is hardcoded into the game so we cant realy get into them but I might be wrong. Guess I'l have to dig it up a little bit.

[M. Sarsfield]

Yeah, it would be a shame not to be able to duplicate the Japanese carrier force with the mobile (as opposed to fixed) search plane over your own location.

Would this really be a hard code issue, though? Could you fool the 2D map into thinking that you're a Jap carrier and just change the flag on the screen?

[lancerr]

This project is moving along amazingly fast - great work.

I was wondering if people knew whether SH4 supports the ability t have Task Forces chase you? Was that possible in the dynamic campaign where IJN or USN would send task forces to areas of heavy sinkings?

If so, that would be cool - not getting boxed in and trying to escape was a very important aspect of raider warfare.

[Xantrokoles]

Yeah, it would be a shame not to be able to duplicate the Japanese carrier force with the mobile (as opposed to fixed) search plane over your own location.

Would this really be a hard code issue, though? Could you fool the 2D map into thinking that you're a Jap carrier and just change the flag on the screen?

I only know, it isn't written in the roster file or the cfg file of the ships.
But somewhere it must be written 'tectical properties' , but I guess it is written in the *.dll s
s

This project is moving along amazingly fast - great work.

I was wondering if people knew whether SH4 supports the ability t have Task Forces chase you? Was that possible in the dynamic campaign where IJN or USN would send task forces to areas of heavy sinkings?

If so, that would be cool - not getting boxed in and trying to escape was a very important aspect of raider warfare.

U can make ships with their waypoints and u can make random generated groups with wayponits...that's all:down:

But u can make more taskforces runnign on often crossed ponits and it looks like they hunt u:roll:

[gimpy117]

US Cruisers didnt usualy sail alone, they usualy had a screen of destroyers or were part of a bigger fleet so there's not realy a point on getting one.
What about getting 1.5, its only 10 bucks :up:
where like at best buy??

i just wish the U.S had some kind of ship that was used alone that could be modded

[bratwurstdimsum]

US Cruisers didnt usualy sail alone, they usualy had a screen of destroyers or were part of a bigger fleet so there's not realy a point on getting one.
What about getting 1.5, its only 10 bucks :up:
where like at best buy??

Scroll to the top of the page under the "Radio Room" Graphic and you will see the banner ad to purchase. It has the "$9.95 U-BOAT MISSIONS ADD-ON" text underneath it! :yep:

Love your work Xantrokoles, I would pay 9.95 just to get your pocket BB add on! :yep::yep::yep::yep::yep::yep: :up:

[Will-Rommel]

I dreamed to my Graf Spee. :arrgh!:

[lancerr]

Thanks - I guess you could mimick the effect by having Task Forces Share the same waypoints as Convoys and intersperse them more frequently - say a Cru Div task force for every 5-10 merchs (random) and a BBdiv for every 10-20 merchies or convoys.

[MMarques]

The ship is almost complete, only a few bugs to clear. Anyone got an idea on how to make the guns not being able to turn 360 degrees? Its funny watching those 11" guns going trough the superstructure lol.

[MMarques]

Oh crap you're right lol, also is there anything that can be done about the engagement range? The guns aim but dont fire untill we're exactly at 5000 meter from the target.

Thanks for the help mate :)

[thasaint]

i can't wait for this mod

[M. Sarsfield]

In the "Fire" part of the controller you can set restricted angle for firing, that means that you can have a gun turning 360° but being unable to fire say between 345 and 015°. Same for the elevation.


For some realism, is it possible to tell the large gun elevations to return to zero in order to load shells before raising and firing, again?

[iambecomelife]

Or, Better yet, an Allied flag flying over the ship?Why an Allied flag:o ? Sometimes these ships used to steam under false flag to approach Allied ships unaware of their nationality and intentions...before raising the KM flag and stop the ship with a shot across its bow:arrgh!: ...but I don't think this is moddable in the game:damn: ...and then enemy ships will immediately recognise you as enemy:dead: .

Usually, pocket battleships used to sail with the central barrel of each heavy turret trained with a 30 degrees elevation, to give the impression of having four turrets, to disguise themselves as a british old battleship.

obviously these tricks worked only with some :88) merchant ship lookouts.

First off, great jon with the mod, Xantrokoles. Maybe as a compromise you could adjust the distance at which enemies notice the vessel? :hmm: Perhaps you could mod the detection/visibility values for submerged submarines, or something. That could represent the enemy being fooled by a false flag at first, and then realizing your ship is an enemy unit as you get closer.

[gimpy117]

Or, Better yet, an Allied flag flying over the ship?Why an Allied flag:o ? Sometimes these ships used to steam under false flag to approach Allied ships unaware of their nationality and intentions...before raising the KM flag and stop the ship with a shot across its bow:arrgh!: ...but I don't think this is moddable in the game:damn: ...and then enemy ships will immediately recognise you as enemy:dead: .

Usually, pocket battleships used to sail with the central barrel of each heavy turret trained with a 30 degrees elevation, to give the impression of having four turrets, to disguise themselves as a british old battleship.

obviously these tricks worked only with some :88) merchant ship lookouts.
First off, great jon with the mod, Xantrokoles. Maybe as a compromise you could adjust the distance at which enemies notice the vessel? :hmm: Perhaps you could mod the detection/visibility values for submerged submarines, or something. That could represent the enemy being fooled by a false flag at first, and then realizing your ship is an enemy unit as you get closer.

no, i don't think so, the challenge of the ship is that if you can see the merchant, they shure as hell can see you. but, their guns will do nothing, and you must use speed to overtake.

convoy attack will actually be very hard when you get 3 destoryers on you, but i bet some good shots from your gun will give you a kill, but, you may take damage

[lancerr]

I'm addicted - I keep logging back to check updates on this amazing mod!

It's going to rock. You are amazing at how quickly you pulled this off. When you have time, I'd love some lessons so i can give back to the community with future mods.

[MMarques]

I've been playing with the guns a bit but aparently I get a CTD when I try to run it, have to see what's going on when I get home.

[Xantrokoles]

Guys our high res watchcrew is on the right position, and the zon files are working(u can ramm ships now, before u ramm it only with the peak of the ex-sub)
Also our baby is burning!
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2431/burnbabyyc8.jpg
All people on deck: RIP
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9193/sh42008040915050004xl2.jpg
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4753/sh42008040915053071ko6.jpg

[MMarques]

Heh that's not a very bad bug, I'm at school atm but when I get home I'l take a look at those guns again.

[Will-Rommel]

Looks like the puzzle is being pieced up.

I wonder how it will look with the skin proposed by Miner. :o

[M. Sarsfield]

How did the ship go up in flames? You must have been really slugging it out with a large convoy.

Tactically, if you stay outside of 4000 yards of the convoy, their gunners won't shoot or have a very bad aim at that range. Shore batteries and escorts will be the only aggressors at that point.

[MMarques]

That's just a test to see if its working

[Xantrokoles]

Looks like the puzzle is being pieced up.

I wonder how it will look with the skin proposed by Miner. :o

I am sorried, but the skin can't work, because he made it with an lightmap texture...
my ship looks like the texture, and the other look like the texture + darker parts where no light is and so on...

We have to make a new...


How did the ship go up in flames? You must have been really slugging it out with a large convoy.

Tactically, if you stay outside of 4000 yards of the convoy, their gunners won't shoot or have a very bad aim at that range. Shore batteries and escorts will be the only aggressors at that point.


I laughed very loud I see this:rotfl:
I did a shootingtest against a friendly sistership of her and when the Ai ship explodes, my range was 100m:up:
I made some screenshot and I was happy when I saw the flames;)

[M. Sarsfield]

LOL! It's good to know that even a pocket BB needs to stay away from a burning target. :up:

[MMarques]

I'm working on a skin for it resembling how graf spee was before she left for her mission right now but the crashes keep me from testing it, we have to find out why it crashes before I can continue properly.

[Xantrokoles]

MMmarques made a great clean skin for it! :
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4779/speeskin2zb6.jpg

[M. Sarsfield]

I was thinking about the search plane launch idea some more and was wondering if it would be possible to launch it like a raft for the commando missions? (Just call it a raft and replace the raft with the plane model). Have the raft/plane appear next to the ship and then it speeds across the water and takes off... unless this has already been tried.

[Xantrokoles]

will test it:D
good idea
but first there are some other things...Torpedoes, CTD bugs, DG Bugs...bla bla

Guess a airplane dropping mission would be nice:up:

[Will-Rommel]

Would it be possible (and historically oriented) to add camo-stripes to the ship keel? Maybe throw in some weathered patchs too.

I wonder if FooFighter could give an helping hand on this part?

[M. Sarsfield]

Guess a airplane dropping mission would be nice:up:

More of a search and report mission. Have ship/convoy icons appear on the map when the plane has visual contact. At the end of the "mission" the plane returns to the ship and then can disappear and respawn on deck. If it has to be a mission that initiates this, then this could probably be written into the campaign layer as a waypoint on the map. When you reach your assigned station, the plane automaticaly launches into search mode.

[MMarques]

The skin I made reflects the Graf Spee as it left the Harbour on August 1939 almost brand new :), she never had any strips on the hull but I could make some weathering.

[Will-Rommel]

Alright, maybe then just darkening the steel a bit would do it. Actually it somehow remind me of SHIII. :hmm:

P.S See this as a positive critic, i'm not whining! :sunny:

[Xantrokoles]

Guess a airplane dropping mission would be nice:up:

More of a search and report mission. Have ship/convoy icons appear on the map when the plane has visual contact. At the end of the "mission" the plane returns to the ship and then can disappear and respawn on deck. If it has to be a mission that initiates this, then this could probably be written into the campaign layer as a waypoint on the map. When you reach your assigned station, the plane automaticaly launches into search mode.

Sry I have no SDK and I can't make an ACCareer out of it:rotfl:

May there's a mod-guru who can do this, but most of them are developing our fleet boats;)

Official announcement:

No torpedoes

I tested everything, but they only get spwaned, stay a while in the air and then they fall...
I can't let them flying out in 45° and on the bow, it is unrealistic stupid.
The torps were only used against very heavy enemy ships, and merchants u may get killed with ur Guns:hmm:
People we only built a gunboat now:arrgh!:

[M. Sarsfield]

Sry I have no SDK and I can't make an ACCareer out of it:rotfl:

May there's a mod-guru who can do this, but most of them are developing our fleet boats;)

No problem. Even if you get the plane to spawn next tothe ship and fly off, it's a good start. Then, someone like Lurker would have something to work with.

[MMarques]

I still have some crazy guns here, aparently the changes I made are the cause for the crash, the guns still turn 360º and I cant seam to find a fix for it.

[gimpy117]

still nothing on the torps?? they had really heavy ones didn't they??

maybe sombody could do a custom one

[MMarques]

No, the german surface ships used the same torpedoes as the U-Boats on 53,3cm tubes. We're ditching the torpedoes for now since we cant let them off trough the side.

[gimpy117]

oh ok

maybe you could spwan them off the port and starboard side but not sideways,
it might not be as realistic but it's a start...

and im prolly gonna buy 1.5 for this mod lol so give yourself a pat on the back...

[MMarques]

Those ships had 2 4x launchers at the stern and I think the max launchers possible at the stern is 6 so I dont think we can get the torpedoes working unless we have half going forward and half going aft.

[andycaccia]

Now we need a playable yamato...:arrgh!:

[linerkiller]

Now we need a playable yamato...:arrgh!:
let's finish the pocket bb first...then, everything is possible:D !

(...a dire la verità la yamato nn mi è mai piaciuta troppo...:-? :-? )

[MMarques]

Actualy I was thinking more on the lines of a Merchan Raider

[MMarques]

I have just reworked the Skin, gave it a little weathered look without exagerating, might have to darken the deck and hull color a bit though.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9475/grafskin2jq0.jpg

[linerkiller]

WOW:o ! Beautiful!:up:
Just a little question...How the interiors and the crew/weapons interfaces will be modified? For the interiors you can use the Gato/Balao ones, they looks far more spacious than the german ones!:hmm:


Keep up the GOOD work!

[Bewolf]

So, which one is it going to be? Scheer, Lützoff or Spee? Or a random unnamed one? =)

[FloydRoses]

Impressive firepower!!!
for Italian user: Invece della yamato preferiresti la Littorio forse?

[M. Sarsfield]

Just a little question...How the interiors and the crew/weapons interfaces will be modified?

Surface ships have boxy compartments. I know we have what we have, but if we can add ship models, why not compartment models?

[Will-Rommel]

The ship skin keeps going better Marques. I noticed the weathering.

Indeed, you can darken the texture a bit again, so there's no major differences between the hull and the turrets color.

[Xantrokoles]

Now we need a playable yamato...:arrgh!:
This isn't guilty for me:roll:

So, which one is it going to be? Scheer, Lützoff or Spee? Or a random unnamed one? =)

Until now it's the Graf Spee....
But it was scuttled in 39 near south-america
So it will be the Admiral Scheer, which was in the Indic for some weeks:up:


No problem. Even if you get the plane to spawn next tothe ship and fly off, it's a good start. Then, someone like Lurker would have something to work with.


Don't bother lurker with this problem...sure he has to do more important things:/\\x:

How the interiors and the crew/weapons interfaces will be modified? For the interiors you can use the Gato/Balao ones, they looks far more spacious than the german ones!:hmm:
Gato interior...good idea...Thank you:D

Surface ships have boxy compartments. I know we have what we have, but if we can add ship models, why not compartment models?

It is possible importable and I looked at the files, but I am no 3d modeller, and I guess it would be only great, if u got windows:hmm:

maybe you could spwan them off the port and starboard side but not sideways,
it might not be as realistic but it's a start...

and im prolly gonna buy 1.5 for this mod lol so give yourself a pat on the back...

I wanted to do this!
4 with direction bow and 4 stern;)
Don't buy this game only because of this mod!
may u will be dissapointed!

[Bewolf]

Until now it's the Graf Spee....
But it was scuttled in 39 near south-america
So it will be the Admiral Scheer, which was in the Indic for some weeks:up:

Works for me, it was the most successfull of the bunch anyways and survived until the very last months of the war :rock::up:


It is possible importable and I looked at the files, but I am no 3d modeller, and I guess it would be only great, if u got windows:hmm:
Windows should be possible, no? I mean on top of u boats and fleetboats you have instruments. That either means....A new compartment should be build with openings as windows OR, what probably makes more sense, the ship modell itself would need some rebuilding to include the bridge within the superstructure. Basicly the model needs to be "carved out". That may cause a texture problem, though, unless ppl are willing to sit within a very very low res texture room.

P.S. Something else just came to my mind....are there any plans to incoorperate crew management and/or upgrades (Radar and so on)? Or is that simply too much work?
Do not percieve that as pressure, Xan! I love the work you do, no matter in what form it is finally finished! Just curious =)

[MMarques]

I'l make 2 skins, one for Graf Spee and another for Admiral Scheer. Its not possible to make Deutschland because it had a lot of differences, also the model actualy reflects the Graf Spee in 1939, you can see that from the bow, the scheer after 1940 had a bow refit for an atlantic bow.

I'm thinking of making her just the Graf Spee because it was in the Indic and besides, the U-Boat Missions add-on had a kind of a "what if" scenario so "what if" graf spee wasnt sunk? :D

[linerkiller]

Impressive firepower!!!
for Italian user: Invece della yamato preferiresti la Littorio forse?:yep:
ma x stare in tema anke la kongo...io ci farei 1 pensierino!
ora xò basta parlare lingue sconosciute:D .
may english users forgive us;)

[Xantrokoles]

Until now it's the Graf Spee....
But it was scuttled in 39 near south-america
So it will be the Admiral Scheer, which was in the Indic for some weeks:up:

Works for me, it was the most successfull of the bunch anyways and survived until the very last months of the war :rock::up:


It is possible importable and I looked at the files, but I am no 3d modeller, and I guess it would be only great, if u got windows:hmm:
Windows should be possible, no? I mean on top of u boats and fleetboats you have instruments. That either means....A new compartment should be build with openings as windows OR, what probably makes more sense, the ship modell itself would need some rebuilding to include the bridge within the superstructure. Basicly the model needs to be "carved out". That may cause a texture problem, though, unless ppl are willing to sit within a very very low res texture room.

P.S. Something else just came to my mind....are there any plans to incoorperate crew management and/or upgrades (Radar and so on)? Or is that simply too much work?
Do not percieve that as pressure, Xan! I love the work you do, no matter in what form it is finally finished! Just curious =)

I will forgot about the interior...
I got enough problems with my torpedoes, cause the maximum is 6 , which isn't enough:dead:
the crew management will be the same as on the subs and I want to make some eqpipment, but we got time:yep:

@MMarques
I want ur skins!

[skwasjer]

Basicly the model needs to be "carved out". That may cause a texture problem, though, unless ppl are willing to sit within a very very low res texture room.

Just add a new material, with a new texture... ? You can add as much materials to a model as you like (or at least as much as 5-6 as I've seen in the game files). The only limitations are, to not overdo it (video memory), and as we all know, multiple texture channels... ffs :damn:

Nice work on this project, I really enjoy seeing all these new mods evolve with the speed of light... well, almost... ;)

[Xantrokoles]

Hello Skwasjer,
I added the same materials structure like in the Graf Spee.dat file.
Then I added the texture entries in the upc file, and nothing happened.:damn:

I guess my problem is, that Pack3d doesn't import the texture material from the object(Graf_Spee_TXR#cfg, or so), cause it's built for sh3

I think when ur superprogram can import things everything works with sh4,
the problem is, u got a hard work and it isn't easy:-?

EDIT: Skawasjer u are my personal hero!
I forgot to think about this material IDs
Texture is working now!
GOOD MOOOOOD!

[MMarques]

You actualy managed to get that second set of textures working?

[Xantrokoles]

mhm...I think I can say yes
only the superstrutures...
But I think I make a new Dat file with my new knowledges:hmm:

I am sorried u made this hard work and now we can use more high res skins
But we will use them too as a patch or so!
We hae to talk later:up:

[skwasjer]

Heh, lol...

Always a pleasure :sunny:

[MMarques]

Eh great! I can now actualy make a great skin, hopefully reflecting the real Graf Spee.

[linerkiller]

I will forgot about the interior...
And the damage/crew control/weapon screen? How it will be modified?:hmm:

[Will-Rommel]

Wich tool do you guys use to modify skins?

[Xantrokoles]

I will forgot about the interior...
And the damage/crew control/weapon screen? How it will be modified?:hmm:
I am working on other things...
later we'll see

Wich tool do you guys use to modify skins?

MMarques uses DXTBMP for converting from .dds to .bmp and then Gimp2 ,I guess

[MMarques]

Yea I use Gimp to make the textures.

[MMarques]

I'm having a problem with the new texture set, they always show the ship totaly green, there must be some problem in the config files.

[Will-Rommel]

Bumping this up so i can keep an eye on this awaited project. :yep:

[Will-Rommel]

I was wondering :

Do you think it could be possible to replace the submarine decoy launcher function with a smoke pot on the Battleship?

Maybe it could be done by spawning a smoke column on the sea, just like when a ship takes damages.

I know that the AI sensor wouldn't bother much and could still effectively fire on us, but it could be something interesting to play with.

[bratwurstdimsum]

Personally I would just like to see the darn thing released as simply as possible. We heap Xan in praise and bow before his programmatic skills, then talk about the more obscure possibilities otherwise this thing aint ever going to get out!!!!

[linerkiller]

Personally I would just like to see the darn thing released as simply as possible. We heap Xan in praise and bow before his programmatic skills, then talk about the more obscure possibilities otherwise this thing aint ever going to get out!!!!No fun playing with an unfinished mod maybe still full of bugs:nope: ...Let him the time he needs!:up: And when it will be finished,we will have the sensation of playing a new game:()1: !!! This is the fun!

[bratwurstdimsum]

Linerkiller I understand your point and actually agree but to put in all the functionality that people are asking for would take ages and is not necessarily needed for the first release just as long as the bugs are taken care of. :arrgh!:

Even Xantrokoles says it:


I am working on other things...
later we'll see


New functionality = new bugs so we should keep these to the most important ones first...do the rest in a later release...just my 10c worth as an IT (computer software) project manager.

[Xantrokoles]

The ship smoke is working now:)
But I didn't find a file, like the eqipment file for the flag...




Personally I would just like to see the darn thing released as simply as possible. We heap Xan in praise and bow before his programmatic skills, then talk about the more obscure possibilities otherwise this thing aint ever going to get out!!!!

No fun playing with an unfinished mod maybe still full of bugs:nope: ...Let him the time he needs!:up: And when it will be finished,we will have the sensation of playing a new game:()1: !!! This is the fun!

Linerkiller I understand your point and actually agree but to put in all the functionality that people are asking for would take ages and is not necessarily needed for the first release just as long as the bugs are taken care of. :arrgh!:

Even Xantrokoles says it:


I am working on other things...
later we'll see



New functionality = new bugs so we should keep these to the most important ones first...do the rest in a later release...just my 10c worth as an IT (computer software) project manager.




I agree with linekiller, that I need time for a bugfree and realstic version:yep:
But I also agree with Bratwurstdimsum, that I shouldn't waste time with this extra things.
i.e.
I can't do test with a plane which is starting, when I didn't have guns, tropedoes or so:shifty:

[MMarques]

The ship is looking good, we're now working on the gun angles so they dont turn 360 degrees around trough the ship lol.

[Xantrokoles]

Hi Xantro, for the flag I think that you can "copy/paste" the german flag from the flag.dat in the library directly into your .dat :hmm:

Hello Mikhayl!
Thanks for this tipp:up: ,
but I tested it, and the flag was only visible from one side, the other doesn't work..
And also the textures didn't work:-?

Do u know where it is written, that a special flag goes to the cfg#FLG node?
And how did u have problems using the *.zon files for ur Sboat?

Thank you in advance:)

[Xantrokoles]

When I understood ur post right, I think u got the sam problem:)

Although thank u for your help:up:

The thing with the zon file are cleared:yep:

[d5j55]

looking good keep up the good work.:rock::rock::rock:

[Will-Rommel]

Yeah keep pushing!

[Xantrokoles]

I recommend myself;)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=135025

This way u should imagine our BB(only a lil bit bigger and some guns more)

[haegemon]

First the basic functions, later you'll got time to figure how to improve the things up. The cannons, torpedoes, crewmen and rooms, are the later part. Just put the nodes in the dat file. :lol:

Did you try to edit a stock game ship? Just curious

[Jake Nukem]

Cant wait for this mod at all it looks so Epic! :rock:

Just a question, whats the ETA on this epicly epic mod?

[W4lt3r]

My own rough guess would be 2 weeks at minimum, regarding the issues there are nwo with the mod.. But i'll stick with the playable Fubuki Mod for now, although the gunners are too dumb to shoot farther then 5 km.. But keep up the good work.

*Edit* figured how to change ranges for the gunners myself. Should work with this mod also.

[MMarques]

Not long now guys, just working on a nice skin for it and trying to make the gun angles work better, also the 5km range issue is fixed on the PBB.

[W4lt3r]

You figured it out also sailor, or did you happen to read my post on the DD thread?

[Raptor1]

Too bad we don't have AI Leander and York class cruisers, we could have a reenactement Battle of the River Plate

[MMarques]

Yea, I'm afraid only the cumberland is there and it didnt have a part in the fight.

[M. Sarsfield]

What would be good CA substitutes (from the game inventory) if one wanted to create a River Plate Quick Mission?

[Raptor1]

I would guess that the best RN substitutes would be a Kent class for HMS Exeter, and 2 Fijis for Achilles and Ajax...

I can't remember if SH4 has a Dido, If it does, It would probably work better then the Fiji

[Xantrokoles]

First the basic functions, later you'll got time to figure how to improve the things up. The cannons, torpedoes, crewmen and rooms, are the later part. Just put the nodes in the dat file. :lol:

Did you try to edit a stock game ship? Just curious

It is a stock game ship, that's why the exeptions are so big.

But no it looks like the AI PBB(with sunlight, reflections and so on)
+MMarques will make a super skin:p

Can we leave the gun control system the same way ike on the DD?

[Will-Rommel]

Yeah leave it the same way, just add some playable guns. (AA and deck gun, but not the main battery)

[lancerr]

no main battery? really?

[M. Sarsfield]

Did any of you ever play Great Naval Battles of the North Atlantic? You had the option of allowing the gun crews to automatically fire using the fire control directors or optics or you could manually take over one of the turrets. Basically, the turret view looked sort of like the TBT/UZO with settings for type of ammo, range, rate of fire, and spread (narrow, wide, or normal). I think it also had a counter to show how long it would take to reload the guns. Animation of the overhead view of the ship would show the gun barrels lowering to load and then raising again to firing position. If the ship was listing too much, the guns were no longer able to see their targets or fire. Pretty good for a 2D DOS game.

[Will-Rommel]

Sounds like a good idea Sarsfield, i wonder what Xan think about it? :hmm:

[lancerr]

Great simulation - second best to TF1942 since there were no true 3d views but amazing nonetheless.

[linerkiller]

In my opinion, the AI control of the 280mm's and 150mm's guns is the best way...crap! i am Kapiten zur See! I want stand on the bridge watching my guns firing:D ! And then, there will be a way to allow the firing of the 150s but not the 280s or vice-versa:hmm: ?


Keep up the good work:up:

[Bewolf]

Unluckily AI gun crews lack this certain ability to line up ships in the crosshairs. Often enough they shoot either right or left of the target. Which is a real pest. Human controlled it makes up for much better and precise shooting. Back then all what mattered was getting the range.

So yes, player controlled main batteries would raise your chances of survival and success much higher.

Now I am aware of the problems coming with modelling of the main guns, so I am certainly not pressing the issue. Fun it will be anyways ; )

[W4lt3r]

Yea, i agree on the huge inaccuracy hit ratio of the main gunners... Maybe if i'd readjust the medium/close ranges much closer to the long range maximum. Then i'd see is there any difference in gun spreads.

I'll test it out in a moment and report here..

[MMarques]

I've been trying to figure out a way to make the 11" guns fire at a longer range than the 5,9" guns but they always fire at the same range.

I'm not sure if its possible to we'll have to hope there's a way somewhere.

[W4lt3r]

Just finished on the spread test, and even though i setted the close range into 11km, while longest is 15km, the spread is still horrible, although at 8km range, lot more hits were done then before..

But regarding the different ranges, readjusting the maximum range on the 5.9s and adjusting their max range to 8km, while the 11" can keep their standard range (was that like 27km or so?). At least that's what i thought out.

[linerkiller]

During warships engagements at long range only a minimal percentage of shells hit the targets. Usually, pocket battlehips sank lone freighters only using torpedoes and medium guns,(or scuttling them), at very short ranges and after evacuating them. When KMS Admiral Scheer attacked the HX ## convoy, in a 4 hours time she managed to sink only 5 freighters and the auxiliary cruiser Jervis Bay ( she damaged six others vessels) using two thirds of her 280mm ammunition.
Firing and aim these monster guns was not easy at all!
A very needed trick would be the possibility of holding/allowing the fire of the main/secondary battery.

[Raptor1]

Don't forget these raiders usually put the crew on lifeboats and then sank those merchants from close range, The only exceptions are warship fights like in the Battle of the River Plate or the Battle of the Barents Sea, Or when they were fighting Auxiliaries with guns

[linerkiller]

During long range encounters, only a minimal percentage of the shells fired hit their targets...the ability of a raider captain is closing the distance with his target as much as possible before opening fire, to eliminate any possibility of escape for the poor merchant ship:dead:

[W4lt3r]

Talking about close range, I was roughly 500km south of India's coast when i hit pea soup fog. My sensor laddie picked up an signal from an merchant vessel roughly 20km to south east from my location, i kept sailing towards it in that fog.. I ended up being parked 100m from the ship's portside until my crew was able to identify the target ^^' that ship was literally munched in 2 salvos.

Those 5"ers (Fubuki) can really do some nasty damage at PBR range...

[linerkiller]

Talking about close range, I was roughly 500km south of India's coast when i hit pea soup fog. My sensor laddie picked up an signal from an merchant vessel roughly 20km to south east from my location, i kept sailing towards it in that fog.. I ended up being parked 100m from the ship's portside until my crew was able to identify the target ^^' that ship was literally munched in 2 salvos.

Those 5"ers (Fubuki) can really do some nasty damage at PBR range...Are you using W_clear mod?:hmm: It makes fog really painful!:dead:

[W4lt3r]

Just PE 2.1, and some smaller tweak mods but nothing like that.. It just happened to be the "worst" fog there can be. I couldn't even see end of my Fubu clearly from the other end. Maybe to half or so. But then again, that area has junkload of airpatrols due to the Allied airfield located at the small island SE from India.

I hope that was last time the higher up's send my fubu to patrol there, since only 1 ship sunk in the 2 days and every 2nd hour had airstrikes on my ship.. And the Type 90's turn soo slowly that they cant even kill a long range bomber..

But luckily got my ship routed to the convoy path from western australia to India. Sank 34 ships in 3 days of straight travel :arrgh!:

[Xantrokoles]

In my oppinion the worse rate of hits is realistic.
I am not working on a fun killer ship, I am working on the KMS Admiral Scheer:lol:

As linekiller said, these guns were not easy to coordinate.

U can't say, the AI gunners are stupid or so; you got simply a easy steering with a mouse and a space button.

I want to bring it out with AI guns and then someone makes playable guns:up:

I can't make a perfect boat, but the community can.
(and I guess mikhayl will)
I want to make a couple of ships playable.
I am happy Skwasjer got his supertool importing 3d models, so it would be possible to create completly new boats like hovercrafts or new subs:up:

[W4lt3r]

Well, we gotta figure out how to get the DP Cannonade systems to be able to fire on Ships AND aircraft. Since those 3x Type 90 Trips are useless against aircraft because of the horrible turn ratio, compared to like the Dual C/46 you can use as flak on Krieg subs.

But i got the gunnery AI and "hostile" AI on ranges changed. Now even those transports with guns shoot to 9km and anything else hostile within that 9km radius.
Btw, once you get the Tertiary gun data done (or do you use the ones from stock as replacement, give me the gun info so i can adjust it so that it wont have same range as the 11" main cannonade :arrgh!:)

[Xantrokoles]

Well, we gotta figure out how to get the DP Cannonade systems to be able to fire on Ships AND aircraft. Since those 3x Type 90 Trips are useless against aircraft because of the horrible turn ratio, compared to like the Dual C/46 you can use as flak on Krieg subs.

But i got the gunnery AI and "hostile" AI on ranges changed. Now even those transports with guns shoot to 9km and anything else hostile within that 9km radius.
Btw, once you get the Tertiary gun data done (or do you use the ones from stock as replacement, give me the gun info so i can adjust it so that it wont have same range as the 11" main cannonade :arrgh!:)

I guess MMarques did this job already, but thanks...hope u will speak with him later

[linerkiller]

But i got the gunnery AI and "hostile" AI on ranges changed. Now even those transports with guns shoot to 9km and anything else hostile within that 9km radius
A 4 inch mounted on a merchant ship could fire at 9km....
Then we have to see if it manage to hit something:D

[W4lt3r]

Ey, i got actually sunk by one because my hull damage reached 86 % after the final hit (No visible damage, no component damage) but my engines died and slowly got dragged underwater. Pity the hull integrity cant be repaired... or can it if you got the best repair dude aboard? (And attack was done when i had 60% Integrity damage, attacking 2 liberties, 1 T3 and a British Medium Passenger/Liner)

But my best engagement was when i took on a small task force, consisting of 4 tribal class DDs, 1 Fiji Class CL and 1 Kent Class CA. I took out all the DDs and CL, but then the CA opened up on me when the fog started to clear ^^ it was already dead in the water and torpedoes went on their way. Ended up that we both got sunk.

Thankfully i had saved before started to fire on the CA. (Kept firing from 13km range ^^) When it was still clear... But those 8"ers hurt like hell. one shell hit and my hull integrity got damage of 66% or around that. then the final hit from the 4" DP dual system's on it, resulting my damage being about 95%.

So.. Those gunners on the transport vessels might not be too big threat but they can still hit you.

[keltos01]

anyone working on that ? The Scheer had a couple didn't she ? (ok it's also for my Jyunsen B and the sen toku, can't wait to attack the panama canal !)

[Stormfly]

aloha,

very nice mod is steaming up the horizon,

any chance to have it in multiplayer ?

...i tested it by creating a mp-mission and the Fubuki DD. Mission is selectable, but it is only possible to select US-Sub`s, and yes, switched game mode to U-Boat Addon before, by selecting an U-boot campain and returning to main manue...

It would be cool to have coop or team vs team matches later that if the fleet as grown a bit or ?

[W4lt3r]

Okay, i found a bit annoying issue regarding the campaing. The Photograph missions. They are IMPOSSIBLE to do with a DD.. Higher ups wanted me to photo the eastern australia harbor.. And guess what, 2 fleet carriers. 1 KGV class battleship along with a Colorado and several DDs. AA guys cant hit a thing with the Vierling's AA ammo (Those wannabe proxy shells are useless)

We HAVE to remove the photograph missions from the campaing if we want this to be completely playable..

[Xantrokoles]

Okay, i found a bit annoying issue regarding the campaing. The Photograph missions. They are IMPOSSIBLE to do with a DD.. Higher ups wanted me to photo the eastern australia harbor.. And guess what, 2 fleet carriers. 1 KGV class battleship along with a Colorado and several DDs. AA guys cant hit a thing with the Vierling's AA ammo (Those wannabe proxy shells are useless)

We HAVE to remove the photograph missions from the campaing if we want this to be completely playable..

Are u able to do this?

u have to understand the system, and everything goes right:up:

u need:
Data/UPCDataGE/UPCCampaignData/Patrols.cfg
and
Data/UPCDataGE/UPCCampaignData/flottillas.upc
;)

[W4lt3r]

Intresting, i'll take a look into those later this night and see if i can adjust it so that there wont be photograph missions for a might pocket battleship or even a pesky DD.

By the way, i've managed to adjust the visual lock on capabilities that i can lock a target from 15km away! And by having the black smoke 1.5v mod, it allows me to see their smoke trails from that distance.

I'd suggest you ask the creator of Black smoke mod to have it in you'r mod. Because it's going to be vital if you want badass long range combat. I can even see targets that are beyond the max range of 5" duals (15km 735 or so meters).
Or then suggest people themselves to get the same mod also.

[Kron161]

Actually I didn't modify anything, in SH3 I just had to position the tube outside of the water and the effect was just fine.
The problem in SH4 (over the fact that the torps spawn either at 0 or 180° from your sub/boat) is that the torpedo are not ejected as they are in SH3.

In SH3 the torp is really ejected and then begins to travel, in SH4 the torp is not ejected, it's just "released" and begins to travel/move before being out of the tube.

Underwater it's not too much noticeable but outside of the water it does that :

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9224/torpsbootnz2.jpg

The torp spawns in the tube and "falls" right away, there's no initial energy, only the torpedo propeller.

But there's most probably some settings somewhere to edit that :)

Should be possible, but we need a little trick.

Create an explosive and quickly expanding cloud of steam (compressed air does just that when exposed to normal air). This cloud will project itself very fast along the hypotetical prolongation of the tube. Then just spawn the torpedo inside the cloud as far forward as possible, (even the nose of the torpedo can be seen projecting outside of the cloud) and let it fall to the water....

Possible?;)

[haegemon]

I guess it is. Masking instead of enginering...your solution could work. :hmm:


About main guns, as all the guns in the game are playable, at least the main guns should be. I'm not talking about controlling all the guns at the same time. The stock game puts the player controlling one station every time as the one who fires (officer, gunner, sailor, etc). This means the player should control one turret at the same time while the others should remain AI controlled.

By the way it looks in the picture seems imposible to fire the main guns while in motion. If it's possibe sure isn't at full speed nor medium speed, and I bet the ship gets propelled backwards the line of fire (well, if it fires in the line of its propellers I supose only is pushed or reduce its speed. Look at the water due to this babe firepower:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/Uss_iowa_bb-61_pr.jpg/800px-Uss_iowa_bb-61_pr.jpg


Photos from the compartments inside warships (sorted BB North Carolina, SS298, USS Yorktown, DD793, USS Alabama, etc:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2e/Uss_iowa_bb-61_pr.jpg/800px-Uss_iowa_bb-61_pr.jpg

[Jake Nukem]

The ship can fire at practicly any speed its moving at, the guns just dont have enough force to propel a 15000+ ton ship backwards enough, even sideways the waves would make the boat rock more then the cannons firing.

[Rene]

this mod is excellent. great job by the developers!!!
but when is the mod ready to download.

[Axlwolf]

Speaking of torpedoes,it seems that many Japanese destroyer used the 61 cm/24 inch torpedoes.
In this site:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTJAP_WWII.htm
The most interesting part is the explosive charge,almost double of the normal G7 torpedo.The range...well,they could travel 20 km at 50 knots...
It would be a marvelous thing to add to an already marvelous mod.
I hope those information could be useful.
Keep up the good work Xantrokoles :up:

EDIT: Ops,i've posted in the wrong thread....Sorry it was meant to be in the "Playable destroyer" thread :oops:

[lancerr]

any rough estimates of when this is coming out?

[linerkiller]

any rough estimates of when this is coming out?A lot of important things are still WIP... i have no direct connection with the modders that are working on it, so i cannot give you a precise date.
For sure the " Scheer Team " is working very hard. Give them time:up:

[Xantrokoles]

I want to give a Date...
But Linekiller is right:)
Lots of things are work in progress and we want a good working mod
We got time:yep:

If not use my Fubuki class and tweak the guns:rotfl:

[MMarques]

I've been out of comission for a few days, sorry about that, was busy doing some work. I'm now back and ready for more :)

[W4lt3r]

Man, i cant wait to get this baby outta the harbor.. Maybe if it's implemented to the rewritten campaing, you'd have to start as an fubuki driver and when you should get the XIII Sub, Instead you're being promoted to use a Deutchland class.. whaddayathink? :hmm:

[Xantrokoles]

This was similar to my idea:D

But I want to have it included in a atlantic campaign, but thats a good start:up:

[lancerr]

Running 1.5 with TMO when i noticed something interesting that would have some great implications for the pocket BB when it comes out.

Everytime I sank a ship, a few hours later, i would get overflown by Air and then hear fast screws approaching. Interesting - perhaps a coincidence since I never noticed this behavior in stock.

Second, third time same deal. The air that comes to recon is usually a betty I think, and the fast screws belong to an auxiliary subchaser and a DD. I didn't think you could have units react to a sinking and send ships and planes your way but apparently this is possible.

Of course, this adds a whole new level of realism to the game and has wonderful implications for gameplay when the pocket BB is released. You can loiter and risk AA and Surface attacks or escape and hide.

Speaking on which - I am reading Battleship Bismarck - A Survivor's Story by Baron Burkard Von Mullenheim-Rechberg. Amazing account by the most senior surviving officer of the battleship bismarck. Must read and definitely somethign that will get you excited about the Pocket BB if you aren't already.

[Xantrokoles]

Good idea and tipp:up:

I think we'll see and I am reading a book about the Panzerschiff (but it is in German; guess u can't read it:) )
There is a nice sentence:
It is faster than the stronger and stronger than the faster.


BTW
The flag now working, but it is too small:hmm:

[W4lt3r]

How's the debugging of the tertiary and main armament coming along? i've been studying those .sim and different folders to find some answers how the gun turning radius is limited but no success so far.. How it could be fixed :hmm:

[Xantrokoles]

@Mikhayl,
My BB look similar:lol:
I copied the Sh3 flags:smug: and added some animation properties

How is it about your Sboat?


@ walter
In a lot of AI ships *.sim files there are some things named: obj_Turrent
Their controller are connected with the Nodes in the Dat files per parent ID
under the controller are the properties.
just testing testing testing:lol:

[lancerr]

Oh my god that looks beautiful!!!

[lancerr]

Mikhayl: Amazing shot. Quick question - the port side smaller turrets look like they are shooting through the ship. I'm guessing that's what you guys are referring to about turret restrictions?

[Rene]

i had a look at your sim file and now i have got one qeustion how fast does the deutschland "travel"?^^
and how much torpedoes are on board?

but your photo is brilliant
i am very nervous to play the battleship soon^^

[W4lt3r]

i had a look at your sim file and now i have got one qeustion how fast does the deutschland "travel"?^^
and how much torpedoes are on board?

but your photo is brilliant
i am very nervous to play the battleship soon^^

The thing holds only 2x of 4 tube torpedo launchers, but why use those when you got 6x 11"ers, 4x 6" singles and junk load of AA guns onboard? :lol:

[ivank]

is the BB done?

[Xantrokoles]

Yep that's it, that was an "early" shot, it's fixed for the big guns (I didn't bother for the AA).
That's my .sim file if anyone needs it : http://www.mediafire.com/?gycwzyssy9j

Mine is just a quick & dirty toy :)

Thank you Mikhayl, without your help I would camp in the stoneage:up:


is the BB done?


Not done, but it doesn't look bad:smug:

The thing holds only 2x of 4 tube torpedo launchers, but why use those when you got 6x 11"ers, 4x 6" singles and junk load of AA guns onboard? :lol:

I am thinking the same thing, but I will add the tubes for nice merchants:hmm:

[Xantrokoles]

Punctually to the 200th post I can tell you some good news:
I got this fat 11 Inch tripples playable and thanks Mikhayl all guns are working now!
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/6398/sh42008042612221787od0.jpg

They only need some changes(properties and camera position)
and the mod is almost ready ( just the campaign and some crew things:up: )

I am hoping for this afternoon (Saturday 4.26.2008 GTM+2)

[The_Pharoah]

mate that is AWESOME news!! :rock:

[Ishigami]

Nice! :up:

[Homerthedoomer]

Ooooh I can't wait :lol:

[The Fishlord]

AWWWSOME! one of the things I liked about SH4 was that you let the crew do most of the work, but if they suck, you do it yourself...Now the modders are bringin it to the surface!

[Xantrokoles]

Uhhh guys the interface is unfriendly to me:-?

I didn't get the 7th and 8th tube working and I didn'T get 1000 crew members into the managment map:down:

[Bewolf]

Uhhh guys the interface is unfriendly to me:-?

I didn't get the 7th and 8th tube working and I didn'T get 1000 crew members into the managment map:down:

Maybe there is a possiblity to use regular seamen as 10 standing in for 1?

I have to admit I already wondered how you are gonna solve the crew problem with so many ppl on board =)

[Will-Rommel]

Wow, release for today? I hope so!!! :arrgh!:

[W4lt3r]

Question, how about the recoil of the 11"ers, how many meters they hit back when shot? or is that in the "soon to be done" list?

[Xantrokoles]

Maybe there is a possiblity to use regular seamen as 10 standing in for 1?

I have to admit I already wondered how you are gonna solve the crew problem with so many ppl on board =)

You have to use your imagination...I add as many members as 1280X1024 approves:smug:


LOL yeah, that game is frickin limited :rotfl:
For the interior, I think you could do a bit like on the screenshot that Miner posted. I don't think that the stock interior could allow to see the outside, for example in the type IX there's some "holes" in the model but you can't see outside, just some blue/black color. Some of the AI merchants have an open deck, you can do the same kind of thing and put some conning tower dials in there. Then if you're a talented 3D modeler you can model a detailed deck as part of the ship and use the interior files to model an engine room or stuff, the real limits are ours now :p

For the crew, I'm wondering, what solution did you choose for the zones of the ship ? submarine-like ? I have a silly playable ship in the works and I kept the default zones, it works and sinks super fine but when you take damage you can't repair anything (but it's not easy to repair a huge ship at sea right ?)


I tested it but when I add a camera, you can't choose it with interior view button:-?
And I want to leave the conning view where it is:dead:

I added the zones too and I got the same thing:lol:
And right, you can't repair it like a sub...
When I did some tests my ship broke in two parts and then I was diving
(I leave it as an 'easteregg' or so):88)



Wow, release for today? I hope so!!! :arrgh!:


I can't ensure but maybe

[Xantrokoles]

Question, how about the recoil of the 11"ers, how many meters they hit back when shot? or is that in the "soon to be done" list?

Sry I don't know what you mean with 'hit back'
Can you explain it for non english speakers?

[W4lt3r]

recoil = After shot, the gun barrel blasts back a behind.

Such as when you used the Gun on sub deck, when you shot, the barrel blasted behind back a bit.

Like the 40mm bofors, you must have noticed the gun barrel goes back a lot when you shoot those pesky planes with it..
Hope you got the point.

[Ishigami]

Real world example:

USS Wisconsin BB-64 firing 16inch guns for the last time, May 28, 1991 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5ATYPrZnSQ&feature=related)

At time 1:32 a good example of the recoil.

[Xantrokoles]

recoil = After shot, the gun barrel blasts back a behind.

Such as when you used the Gun on sub deck, when you shot, the barrel blasted behind back a bit.

Like the 40mm bofors, you must have noticed the gun barrel goes back a lot when you shoot those pesky planes with it..
Hope you got the point.

Mikhayl is right:up: ..How many metres:hmm: ..don't know
But it annoys me that I am not really sure wether I hit it, but thats life

Xantro, for the deck you need to have a custom cameras.dat file, with free move on the conning tower view. This way you can go anywhere on the ship :)

I got it and I like it:lol:



Real world example:

USS Wisconsin BB-64 firing 16inch guns for the last time, May 28, 1991 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5ATYPrZnSQ&feature=related)

At time 1:32 a good example of the recoil.

:yep: Thx

[The_Pharoah]

do we really need every seaman on board to be in the crew mgmt screen? The captain, although responsible, didn't oversee every single seaman under his command for the main reason - too many!! :yep: hence the 'art' of delegation :D

[lancerr]

Can;t wait - this will make my weekend if it comes out.

[W4lt3r]

Can;t wait - this will make my weekend if it comes out.

Amen, brother. Thought the same.

[The_Pharoah]

its sunday here and I'm on leave tomorrow....*rubs hands* c'mon baby

[Wild_skipper]

Real world example:

USS Wisconsin BB-64 firing 16inch guns for the last time, May 28, 1991 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5ATYPrZnSQ&feature=related)

At time 1:32 a good example of the recoil.

That is a lot of firepower :rock: :rock:

[Xantrokoles]

Brothers and sisters,

I am sorried I won't give it out today.
although everything is working there are thing, I hate:roll:

i.e.
-Upgradepacks(In my oppinion very important after a patrol)
-Operation Monsun campaign (not ready until now)
-Flak Crew(only one guy until now, don't know wether I can add some)

All in all a nice ship;)

[Xantrokoles]

For the interrested:
http://a.imagehost.org/t/0200/sh4_2008-04-27_00-41-58-06.jpg (http://a.imagehost.org/view/0200/sh4_2008-04-27_00-41-58-06.jpg) http://a.imagehost.org/t/0200/sh4_2008-04-27_00-42-51-34.jpg (http://a.imagehost.org/view/0200/sh4_2008-04-27_00-42-51-34.jpg)
http://a.imagehost.org/t/0200/sh4_2008-04-27_00-43-29-47.jpg (http://a.imagehost.org/view/0200/sh4_2008-04-27_00-43-29-47.jpg) http://a.imagehost.org/t/0200/sh4_2008-04-27_00-43-44-75.jpg (http://a.imagehost.org/view/0200/sh4_2008-04-27_00-43-44-75.jpg)
http://a.imagehost.org/t/0200/sh4_2008-04-27_00-43-59-48.jpg (http://a.imagehost.org/view/0200/sh4_2008-04-27_00-43-59-48.jpg)http://a.imagehost.org/t/0200/sh4_2008-04-27_01-07-35-26.jpg (http://a.imagehost.org/view/0200/sh4_2008-04-27_01-07-35-26.jpg)

[lancerr]

That's such a tease. But I admire your dedication to putting out a quality product.

[The_Pharoah]

aww mate thats a shame. no chance of getting the Pocket BB for single mission play? (like the DD beta?). :lol: worth a try anyway. :p

[modisch]

amazing what can (and is) being done. Ya'll do better work than most people get paid for.

-m

[W4lt3r]

Do i see an error in the gun firing, because you shot all 3 barrels but lost only 1 ammo from the locker.. You got the clip_size setted to 3, so all 3 barrels will fire in one salvo? Or then you're having heapload of ammunition there..

And also, didnt deutchland had some amount of high-explosive shells, next to the armor-piercing rounds dedicated to fire on CA-BC-BB class vessels..

[Xantrokoles]

Thak you guys

Has anyone some information about the radar range?
would it be ok to use the sub radars?


Do i see an error in the gun firing, because you shot all 3 barrels but lost only 1 ammo from the locker.. You got the clip_size setted to 3, so all 3 barrels will fire in one salvo? Or then you're having heapload of ammunition there..

And also, didnt deutchland had some amount of high-explosive shells, next to the armor-piercing rounds dedicated to fire on CA-BC-BB class vessels..

In the guns.sim you can add under the point MUZZLES array item for every cannon
Which means 3 shoots with one time hitting space and 3 granades are shooten
I do not know how many granades of which type there were.I used the AI ship settings;)

[W4lt3r]

Well, wiki says it used 60 cm FUMO Radar system, so isnt that detection range around 30-40 km?

[Xantrokoles]

Well, wiki says it used 60 cm FUMO Radar system, so isnt that detection range around 30-40 km?

I just wantedd to write the readme, but if you're right I can start new:rotfl:

[Rene]

just incredibile^^ wow what a beauty:)
want the boat!NOW!^^
is there a chance that we can play the deutschland today?

and a big compliment for the whole team working for this mod!!

[Raptor1]

Just 1 thing, the Deutschlands we're only referred to as "Pocket Battleships" by the British, the KM classified them as Panzerschiffs and later reclassified them as Heavy Cruiser, Are you going to leave "Pocket Battleship" as the class name?

[W4lt3r]

Nah, no need to start a new readme ^^ Who cares if there is few errors in the specs. I at least play this game to have a good time.

[Xantrokoles]

@ Raptor
In the Game the ship is called 'Pocket Battleship' , but it is a heavy crusier, right

@Rene
I am on a way to upload it in some minutes:smug:

@ W4lt3r
There will be lots of bugs from the beginning:-?

[Ishigami]

Looking forward to it :yep:

[The_Pharoah]

@ Raptor
In the Game the ship is called 'Pocket Battleship' , but it is a heavy crusier, right

@Rene
I am on a way to upload it in some minutes:smug:

@ W4lt3r
There will be lots of bugs from the beginning:-?

dude you rock! :rock:

[W4lt3r]

Wrong with the heavy cruiser, pocket battleship is pocket battleship. Heavy cruiser sports guns up to 8"ers, while pocket BBs go up to 11"ers. But then again, Pocket BBs, as they're fast, they lack the armor.

And bugs, as long as it isnt CDT scale, i can take em and maybe even able to solve a few.

[Raptor1]

Wrong with the heavy cruiser, pocket battleship is pocket battleship. Heavy cruiser sports guns up to 8"ers, while pocket BBs go up to 11"ers. But then again, Pocket BBs, as they're fast, they lack the armor.

And bugs, as long as it isnt CDT scale, i can take em and maybe even able to solve a few.
Wrong, the Deutschland class was originally referred to by the Kriegsmarine as Panzerschiffs (Armored Ships) but they we're reclassified in Feb. 1940 as Heavy Cruisers, the Royal Navy referred to them as "Pocket Battleships" because of their considerably heavy armament compared to normal CAs that was mounted on the hulls and displacement of a Heavy Cruiser (Or atleast appeared to be...)

[W4lt3r]

Strange, it's always referred as pocket battleship in my country's history books.. But i do agree it's other referrance word is the "Panzerschiff"..
Why now im starting to think "Hood" Know.. Big guns, not that good armor, fast..

[Raptor1]

I don't think the Hood is a good analogy, She was just a Battleship with less armor and more speed, I think the best comparison is the USN's Alaska class Large Cruisers (USS Alaska (CB-1) and USS Guam (CB-2)), They we're armed with 9 12" Guns and had a similer displacement to Battleships, but they we're more like oversized Cruisers than downsized Battleships (But they still had the Battleship displacement at 27,000 Tons, There's really no ship you can REALLY compare the Deutschland to...)

[Rene]

xantro is the deutschland up?:D
i cannot wait anymore
i must destroy some ships^^
but for that mission i need a real boat your boat:arrgh!: arrrrgghhh!!!^^

[John W. Hamm]

Not sure what I did wrong, maybe you could help me out here

http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/w/whyokc/135246/lfpnbofvxk.jpg