Sub on Rails - What is it?

[cherbert]

I keep hearing people talking about Sub on Rails...

Firstly, can someone explain exactly what is meant by this term?

and....

Is it caused by 1.5? Has anyone fixed it?


Thank you!

Chris

[wetwarev7]

I think it's just how the subs ride on the surface - they sometimes look like they are riding on rails, and do not follow the waves properly.

It exists in all versions as far as I know, but there are a few mods that address the issue.

[swdw]

It's when the sub moves in a straight line when there are large waves and doesn't follow the waves (flying boat). It's also applied to boats that don't roll or pitch much on rougher waters but still stay in the water.

This is actually a game engine issue and can only be addressed to a limited extent by any mods. Adjustments to the boats can only go so far, otherwise you start creating additional problems.

It requires both a modification to the boats AND limiting of the wave size / frequency you encounter

[Mush Martin]

I myself have used the term in the context of sportcars and ubersubs

"it corners like its on rails"

implying that like a train it doesnt lose its track.

[kriller2]

Try PE2 and the subs on rails is history :cool:

[Zero Niner]

Sorry, what mod is PE2?

[DrBeast]

Sorry, what mod is PE2?

Pacific Environments 2 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=133365) :yep:

[DrBeast]

PE2 doesn't change the file responsible of the problem



The optional diverate mod does ;) Granted, not the sim.cfg file (that approach will lead to side-effects, mind you, and should only be tampered with by someone who knows what he's doing - I know I don't!), but each sub's .sim file.

[kriller2]

PE2 doesn't change the file responsible of the problem

it's the [mech] entry in the sim.cfg

here is a modified sim.cfg with stock SH3 values for [mech] section, make the subs behave exactly like those in SH3 stock game

http://niflheim.endofinternet.net/files/floating_sub_fix.zip

And don't ask me what this entry about sub comportment at sea does in a file supposed to contain AI sensor parameters.

Actualy the scene.dat plays a huge role in how the sub moves, f.ex. if you have waves moving fast like the stock SH4 and Wclears mod, the sub can't follow the waves, which makes it looks like a sub on rails, but with the ROW work on the scene.dat the waves speed are set at more naturally values which makes the sub move with the waves, Dave / Leovampire used alot of time and energy testing and reading about it and ended up with his great mod "Living Breathing Sea" which we integrated into ROW. unfortunately it seems reducing the seaspeed allso makes the jiggly water more noticeable.

Allso setting a different coef makes a difference ask PantherCules about it, I have used his "secret" setting from the Roll pitch mod he was working on (but canceled) to make the sub roll better in high waves and storm.

[DrBeast]

I was definitely not satisfied with the diverate mod, sorry, so i was still looking for another solution.

Changing the wakes wasn't a satisfactory solution either, i'm using PE2, and the sub was just not following the waves movement.

All of these mods made the sub move a little, but i wanted something closer to how the subs move in SH3. And this is in the sim.cfg file.

Oh well, i learned a lot about various parameters in various files, i was able to have a nice roll of the sub by messing with the float connectors in the .val files, very nice. But i still wasn't satisfied by the pitch.

You might want to try ROW Sub Reflections And Roll Mod (http://files.filefront.com/ROW+Sub+Reflections+and+R5rar/;9287298;/fileinfo.html), then. It's the only part of ROW, along with ROW Special Effects that's not included in PE2. That's what I use and I'm quite satisfied.

[letterboy1]

Thanks for that link, DrBeast. I want to go back to the ROW roll mod because I like it the beest so far.

[The General]

Have any of you on this thread got SH5 and have seen first-hand the sub-on-rails problem, or are you all just going off a few seconds of video? If it proves to be the case, then the Trigger Maru MOD also improved the subs behaviour in this respect.

[Dowly]

Have any of you on this thread got SH5 and have seen first-hand the sub-on-rails problem, or are you all just going off a few seconds of video? If it proves to be the case, then the Trigger Maru MOD also improved the subs behaviour in this respect.

One of the marinesims' videos shows it pretty well, both from external view and from bridge as the boat goes through the wave and the wave then goes through the bridge. Also, you can see the aft of the boat "hanging" in mid air at one point.

Sub on rails is definitely still there.

[The General]

That is a shame. Strange how The Devs have never seemed bothered to learn anything from all the modding that's been done. There are few problems that have not changed since SH3.

[Nisgeis]

Have any of you on this thread got SH5 and have seen first-hand the sub-on-rails problem, or are you all just going off a few seconds of video? If it proves to be the case, then the Trigger Maru MOD also improved the subs behaviour in this respect.

I think they all left... this post was two years old. :doh:.

[Ducimus]

There's three different ways to fix the sub on rails if i remember correctly.

1.) LargewaveCoef in the scene.dat. This was a global property, not in one of the 4 wave states if i remember correctly. (i recall this beiing a quick hack of a fix)

2.) Recalibrate and redo all 4 wave states. (You will most likely have to recalibrate the AI's visual detection after doing this. Tons of fun. :haha:)

3.) The two wave amplitude settings at the top of the file in the sim.cfg. (You will most definatly have to recalibrate the AI visual detection, and make crash depth adjustments in the zones.cfg. Increasing wave size like this will have the best visual effect, but will causes ships to combust/flood after a random period of time due to flooding via increased wave size. Also tons of fun to adjust :haha:)

or any combination of 2 and 3. Anywho, my memory is foggy, so i could have it wrong.

edit:
BTW, if folks from SH5 are looking/researching answer for this issue, try asking W_clear. I think he's into SH5, and he'd have more info on the issue then i would.

[The General]

It would've been nice if this was done by The Devs in the first place. I mean it's been something like 10 years since SH3 went into development and getting something like this right should've been job 1 after creating the water and sub model.

[Ducimus]

The sub on rails effect was introduced with SH4.

[V.C. Sniper]

i saw some sh3 videos on utube, subs on rail was in sh3.

[Ducimus]

Maybe that was prepatch 1.4b. I honestly don't remember sub on rails in SH3, quite the opposite, i seem to remember subs interacting substantially better with the enviorment in SH3. But, it was awhile ago for me, i could be wrong.

[dcb]

Maybe that was prepatch 1.4b. I honestly don't remember sub on rails in SH3, quite the opposite, i seem to remember subs interacting substantially better with the enviorment in SH3. But, it was awhile ago for me, i could be wrong.

No, you're right. I'm still playing SH3, which has the sub hydro behavior right, and wondering why on Earth did they break it into SH4, when it was working so well years ago? And then why did they not incorporate into SH5 the fixes brought by the community for SH4, as it's the same engine and - obviously - the same borked vanilla physics? Modders are doing the job for them and they still ignore it. Go figure:dead:

[vickers03]

i have a mod for this, i think it works good enough:

SH3_to_SH4_sub_physics
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1433

[TH0R]

Has this 'sub on rails' been fixed in the RFB?

When comparing TMO and RFB I found that the sub had more pitch in the TMO than in RFB (all latest versions)...

[SH4 fan]

What are the acronyms used in the SH3 to SH4 physics? I am new here and trying to hit the ground running.

[vickers03]

What are the acronyms used in the SH3 to SH4 physics? I am new here and trying to hit the ground running.
could you explain this?:hmmm:

[SH4 fan]

I did a bit more research and found the answer I was looking for. I was referring to the mod acronyms: GFO, TMO etc. Thank you though!