[WIP] enhanced funnel smoke

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Originally I was just going to mod the warships to have lighter funnel smoke, but iambecomelife had mentioned something about having the older coalburner merchants having thicker smoke, soooo . . .

This is what the three types of funnel smoke look like at a distance:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/SH3Img28-3-2008_115520_578.jpg

These are close-ups; first is a warship:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/SH3Img28-3-2008_115530_265.jpg

Next is a more modern merchant:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/SH3Img28-3-2008_115542_171.jpg

Finally the older coal-burners:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/SH3Img28-3-2008_11564_953.jpg

These may, or may not, be final versions, based upon your feedback. This is your chance Kaleuns. ;)

I've spent hours digging up photos of WWII merchants and warships, comparing their funnel smokes and trying to create something that --if it doesn't exactly match, at least comes close. One thing I did notice was that it seemed as if when the merchants were actually cruising at speed they gave off little to no smoke . . . which surprised me. I'm hoping our resident historical experts might be able to enlighten me here.

Once I've finalized the smokes, next I'll be incorporating them into the appropriate ships. Which will also be 'fun'. Deciding which are warships is a piece of cake, but I'm not sure what criteria to use to sort merchants into the older, smokier kinds versus more modern, less smoky. Again, I'll appreciate any advice here!

Albrecht

[Ivan Putski]

Looks pretty good Albrecht, I remember seeing a lot of those old coal burners, be a nice addition, as there were plenty of them around. Puts:up:

[Wolfehunter]

Damb great work dude. Is it possible to add multiple dark greys and browns to the smoke? Or is that alot of work?

[HundertzehnGustav]

:hmm: :o :o :rock:

[mengle]

Looking good, man you're really an addict :D Just a thought, I don't know how it was in real life, but maybe it would be cool to have the smoke particles last longer to let them climb higher in the sky. That would make a nice effect when you track a convoy over the horizon.


i agrea with that, but i like the 3 also
you are making great mods you know :rock:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Looking good, man you're really an addict :D Just a thought, I don't know how it was in real life, but maybe it would be cool to have the smoke particles last longer to let them climb higher in the sky. That would make a nice effect when you track a convoy over the horizon.

LOL!!!!!

I've been trying!!

I just can't figure out how. Trying to increase the life results in cyclic puffs instead of a single non-stop stream. I have a bald spot from pulling out my hair trying to figure out how to increase the overall lifetime. Help?

@Wolfehunter: Given my limited knowledge of things I'd have to say yes, it is possible. I'm just not sure how to do that. I think what's needed is to create additional smoke materials then intermingle them with the original smoke materials. I think. I'm also not sure what that'd look like either. If I had a color shot of their real funnel smokes that'd help. I'm prolly going to leave it just as it is unless the general consensus is that, yes, black/brown/dark grey smoke would be nifty.

[Wolfehunter]

@Wolfehunter: Given my limited knowledge of things I'd have to say yes, it is possible. I'm just not sure how to do that. I think what's needed is to create additional smoke materials then intermingle them with the original smoke materials. I think. I'm also not sure what that'd look like either. If I had a color shot of their real funnel smokes that'd help. I'm prolly going to leave it just as it is unless the general consensus is that, yes, black/brown/dark grey smoke would be nifty.

Thats cool I understand.. One more thing if its not impossible but most probable and if its with-in your abilities is:huh: :hmm: to prevent the smoke from randomly disapearing and have it flow away into the sky.:smug: I know RB was looking at that in the passed but he's on extended shoreleave.;)

Thanks AVH.

[ichso]

The screenshots look quite good :up:

Another question I have is whether the effective range at which those ships can be spotted needs to be further adjusted then too.

Because you would expect an old freighter with a large stack of smoke on top to be seen much earlier than a DD which produces way less funnel smoke.

Or is this feature already included somewhere else ? GWX for example ? :hmm:

[Jimbuna]

Looks very promising Albrecht http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[iambecomelife]

Originally I was just going to mod the warships to have lighter funnel smoke, but iambecomelife had mentioned something about having the older coalburner merchants having thicker smoke, soooo . . .

This is what the three types of funnel smoke look like at a distance:



These are close-ups; first is a warship:



Next is a more modern merchant:



Finally the older coal-burners:



These may, or may not, be final versions, based upon your feedback. This is your chance Kaleuns. ;)

I've spent hours digging up photos of WWII merchants and warships, comparing their funnel smokes and trying to create something that --if it doesn't exactly match, at least comes close. One thing I did notice was that it seemed as if when the merchants were actually cruising at speed they gave off little to no smoke . . . which surprised me. I'm hoping our resident historical experts might be able to enlighten me here.

Once I've finalized the smokes, next I'll be incorporating them into the appropriate ships. Which will also be 'fun'. Deciding which are warships is a piece of cake, but I'm not sure what criteria to use to sort merchants into the older, smokier kinds versus more modern, less smoky. Again, I'll appreciate any advice here!

Albrecht

There's one pretty good rule of thumb - tall, thin funnels were used on old coal burners. The tall stack was needed to keep soot and cinders away from the decks. Diesel-driven ships and some of the more modern steamers (constructed circa 1935-1945) could get away with having shorter stacks. In general, this also makes smokestacks an excellent way to identify when a ship was built. There were a few companies that liked the "retro" look and kept tall stacks on modern vessels, but this was so rare I wouldn't worry about it.


http://www.armed-guard.com/byrondbe.jpg

Steam Tanker - Built in 1922

http://uboat.net/allies/ships/photos/am/esso_gettysburg.jpg

Motor Tanker - Built 1942

For the default ships I would suggest:

MODERN/LESS SMOKE - Liberty Ship, Victory Ship, C-3 Cargo, NKLS, Troopship, T-2, T-3, Small Merchant, Small Tanker

OLD/MORE SMOKE - Coastal Merchant, AMC

Although the Liberty and Victory were steamers, and could possibly go either way.

[Letum]

There are one or two coal burning destroyers in ganme, right?
Clemsen class?

[Hitman]

This is a great leap forward :up:

One thing I did notice was that it seemed as if when the merchants were actually cruising at speed they gave off little to no smoke

Only coal steamers had noticeable smoke plumes, and by day (When most pictures were taken) sometimes convoys reduced speed to make themselves less visible. I have readed however lots of reports from Kaleuns mentioning the very visible smoke plumes over the horizon, so they were certainly a danger for the convoys.

Also, once the steam has reached enough pressure, it gets released with every piston push together with the normal smoke of burning coal through the funnel, thus making it a bit clearer, light grey. Steam ships make therefore more smoke when heating up the steam than once having reached operational pressure.

[msalama]

Man. You ROCK. :rock: First the enchanced ASW - which I use and enjoy immensely - and now this... among the other things you're working on ATM, that is ;)

Now where's that fanclub at??? Gotta join up.

[ozzysoldier]

nice one:up:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

I've added browns and greys to the coal-burners. It's not terribly noticible but it's there. Is this what you were looking for?

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/SH3Img28-3-2008_143817_875.jpg

@iambecomelife: Thanks!! That's the sort of info I was needing. That'll be a great way to sort them out: by funnel/stack height. Now I just have to create a monster convoy of one-of-each and look through them. --wry grin--

@Letum: Good question. If there are any warships that should have the darker smokes please let me know and I'll make sure they have them.

Thanks everyone, for your kind words and encouragement!

[Sailor Steve]

There are one or two coal burning destroyers in ganme, right?
Clemsen class?
No. Destroyers were all burning oil by 1915. No WW1 DDs used coal, and certainly none built between the wars or during WW2.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Ok, Seth I'm not. --wry grin-- But I thought I'd take a little break and download FRAPS and give it a whirl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0NecrPKE7k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj9EW5jH8QY

Now back diving in amongst particles, colors, opacity . . . --shudders--

[iambecomelife]

Ok, Seth I'm not. --wry grin-- But I thought I'd take a little break and download FRAPS and give it a whirl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0NecrPKE7k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj9EW5jH8QY

Now back diving in amongst particles, colors, opacity . . . --shudders--

Man, those stokers sure are polluting the atmosphere. :-? I suppose that there was no EPA back then.;)

[Wolfehunter]

Great work on the dark greys. Give the smoke some depth.:rock:

[bigboywooly]

@iambecomelife: Thanks!! That's the sort of info I was needing. That'll be a great way to sort them out: by funnel/stack height. Now I just have to create a monster convoy of one-of-each and look through them. --wry grin--


Whu not check the sil file in each ships sea folder

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Whu not check the sil file in each ships sea folder

Ummmm . . . because Ich bin eine retard? D'oh! :doh:

That'll help speed things up, yep yep yep! Danke!

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Ok, this is the pre-final version of the coal burners:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/SH3Img28-3-2008_21585_531.jpg

I've started classifying, then editing and modifying, all the ships. Not sure how long that'll take. There's quite a few! :rotfl:

[Sailor Steve]

Um, yeah, that looks like coal smoke to me.

[Jimbuna]

Very classy Albrecht http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[TarJak]

Nice work Albrecht!:up:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

I'm in the process of categorizing the various ship classes (which is going a whole lot faster due to BBW's suggestion of using the .sil files!). In doing so I had a 'hmmmm' moment.

Should the heavier warships (battleships, aircraft carriers) also have the very faint smoke like the DDs, DEs and the like will have? I checked out what that'd look like and it just looks . . . odd.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/SH3Img29-3-2008_115028_812.jpg

What do you think? Give it the same smoke as the modern, diesel-burner merchies, give it this smoke, or create a forth smoke for the heavier class warships?

[mengle]

I'm in the process of categorizing the various ship classes (which is going a whole lot faster due to BBW's suggestion of using the .sil files!). In doing so I had a 'hmmmm' moment.

Should the heavier warships (battleships, aircraft carriers) also have the very faint smoke like the DDs, DEs and the like will have? I checked out what that'd look like and it just looks . . . odd.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/SH3Img29-3-2008_115028_812.jpg

What do you think? Give it the same smoke as the modern, diesel-burner merchies, give it this smoke, or create a forth smoke for the heavier class warships?



perhaps a litle bit more, something in between:)

spoken of smoke , i was wondering when a ship sinks and go backboard or wathever i notice the smoke do not go up like it should be, can this stockbug be fixed ?

[Jimbuna]

The larger ships were longer between boiler overhauls. I'd suggest lighter than a coal burner but darker than an escort.

[HundertzehnGustav]

STOPSTOOOOPPPP alle Maschinen zwomal HALT
Yikes!

let me ask you- will you give the light smoke to the old four funnel DDs too?
light smoke for a ship built during WWI?

There we have an interesting problem: old Warships, built before, lets say 1930 should have medium smoke!
Auxiliary warships like converted trawlers and similar ships have medium smoke too.

What do you think?

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

looking verry good :rock:


keep up the good work - BDU

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Oooooo-kay :rotfl: :doh: :rotfl:

Having made three smokes, it's not all that more difficult (:huh: :doh: ) to make four, or even five. Soooo . . .

Here's da current plan:

1) light warships: corvettes, frigates, DDs, DEs -- lightest smoke
2) heavy warships: cruisers, battleships, aircraft carriers -- a bit darker, more blue-grey than modern merchants, and a bit shorter but denser
3) modern (diesel) merchants: medium smoke
4) old (coal) merchants: long, thick black smoke

By the way, in case I forget to say so in the release notes and readme, anyone that would like to incorporate these smokes in their ship models may do so.

[iambecomelife]

Oooooo-kay :rotfl: :doh: :rotfl:

Having made three smokes, it's not all that more difficult (:huh: :doh: ) to make four, or even five. Soooo . . .

Here's da current plan:

1) light warships: corvettes, frigates, DDs, DEs -- lightest smoke
2) heavy warships: cruisers, battleships, aircraft carriers -- a bit darker, more blue-grey than modern merchants, and a bit shorter but denser
3) modern (diesel) merchants: medium smoke
4) old (coal) merchants: long, thick black smoke

By the way, in case I forget to say so in the release notes and readme, anyone that would like to incorporate these smokes in their ship models may do so.

What files are altered to give a ship a particular type of smoke? I'd like to understand the process so I can use it for my own mod (thanks for giving permission).

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

What files are altered to give a ship a particular type of smoke? I'd like to understand the process so I can use it for my own mod (thanks for giving permission).

In the .sim file for each ship will be the controller obj_Funnel (for ships that use funnels, anyway). One of the properties for the funnel is called 'smoke'; that deternines the smoke effect for that funnel.

The standard funnel smoke effect used is located in particles.dat, and is called #funnel_smoke. I've created a new .dat file called particles_funnelsmoke.dat that contains the different funnel smoke effects. You just substitute the appropriate one, replacing the original one in the ship's .sim file.

[Sailor Steve]

1) light warships: corvettes, frigates, DDs, DEs -- lightest smoke
Good, except as mentioned before the older ones (four-pipers, V&W and some others) should be darker
2) heavy warships: cruisers, battleships, aircraft carriers -- a bit darker, more blue-grey than modern merchants, and a bit shorter but denser
Probably good. I have hundreds of pictures in my files, and in one the ship is at speed with no smoke, and in another the same ship is moving slowly and making lots of smoke. That's backwards from what it should be, and there's no set rule about how much smoke they're making
3) modern (diesel) merchants: medium smoke
Look at u-boats. Diesels make very little smoke, except under heavy acceleration or when uncared for.
4) old (coal) merchants: long, thick black smoke
Very much so. There is a famous picture of HMS Invincible working up to speed at the Falklands in 1914, and she's making so much smoke the fire control people wouldn't have been able to see to shoot the guns!

For (3), PM me a list of the ships you're doing. From me research on names I can probably tell you which were steam and which were diesel.

[bigboywooly]

Very impressive
Now if only someone knows how to make the damn stuff go higher :x

BUT
Within the limitations at the moment i will defo be adding that smoke into my install
Those coal burners look the part alright

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

1) light warships: corvettes, frigates, DDs, DEs -- lightest smoke
Good, except as mentioned before the older ones (four-pipers, V&W and some others) should be darker
2) heavy warships: cruisers, battleships, aircraft carriers -- a bit darker, more blue-grey than modern merchants, and a bit shorter but denser
Probably good. I have hundreds of pictures in my files, and in one the ship is at speed with no smoke, and in another the same ship is moving slowly and making lots of smoke. That's backwards from what it should be, and there's no set rule about how much smoke they're making
3) modern (diesel) merchants: medium smoke
Look at u-boats. Diesels make very little smoke, except under heavy acceleration or when uncared for.
4) old (coal) merchants: long, thick black smoke
Very much so. There is a famous picture of HMS Invincible working up to speed at the Falklands in 1914, and she's making so much smoke the fire control people wouldn't have been able to see to shoot the guns!

For (3), PM me a list of the ships you're doing. From me research on names I can probably tell you which were steam and which were diesel.


That's pretty good info! Thanks! :)

As to the ships I'm doing, that's pretty easy: anything in the Sea folder of the GWX 2.0 mod that has a funnel. :rotfl:

I already have a Word doc of all the ships, listing folder name, ship name and class name. I was planning on going through each folder and (based on BBW's suggestion) deciding what to classify them based on their silhouette. Merchants would be coal burning if they had tall stacks, or diesel if they had short stacks. With the warships I was going to classify them as light (DDs, DEs, corvettes, etc) or heavy (BBs and carriers).

The older DDs (like the 4-stackers) I wasn't sure what to do with them (like as not, now, I'll be making a fifth smoke just for them! :doh: ).

I agree about the no set rule. I've seen photos of WWII merchant convoys at sea making no smoke at all, and warships either with no smoke or horrendous smoke. So while I can't be totally historic/realistic in that regards I can at least try and make their funnel smokes look different and (hopefully) apropo.

Here is a short vid of the four types of funnel smoke I have so far. Comments are appreciated!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBJFgKsfNFU

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Very impressive
Now if only someone knows how to make the damn stuff go higher :x

BUT
Within the limitations at the moment i will defo be adding that smoke into my install
Those coal burners look the part alright

Actually higher shouldn't be hard: just decrease the particle weight and increase the velocity.

[iambecomelife]

1) light warships: corvettes, frigates, DDs, DEs -- lightest smoke
Good, except as mentioned before the older ones (four-pipers, V&W and some others) should be darker
2) heavy warships: cruisers, battleships, aircraft carriers -- a bit darker, more blue-grey than modern merchants, and a bit shorter but denser
Probably good. I have hundreds of pictures in my files, and in one the ship is at speed with no smoke, and in another the same ship is moving slowly and making lots of smoke. That's backwards from what it should be, and there's no set rule about how much smoke they're making
3) modern (diesel) merchants: medium smoke
Look at u-boats. Diesels make very little smoke, except under heavy acceleration or when uncared for.
4) old (coal) merchants: long, thick black smoke
Very much so. There is a famous picture of HMS Invincible working up to speed at the Falklands in 1914, and she's making so much smoke the fire control people wouldn't have been able to see to shoot the guns!

For (3), PM me a list of the ships you're doing. From me research on names I can probably tell you which were steam and which were diesel.


That's pretty good info! Thanks! :)

As to the ships I'm doing, that's pretty easy: anything in the Sea folder of the GWX 2.0 mod that has a funnel. :rotfl:

I already have a Word doc of all the ships, listing folder name, ship name and class name. I was planning on going through each folder and (based on BBW's suggestion) deciding what to classify them based on their silhouette. Merchants would be coal burning if they had tall stacks, or diesel if they had short stacks. With the warships I was going to classify them as light (DDs, DEs, corvettes, etc) or heavy (BBs and carriers).

The older DDs (like the 4-stackers) I wasn't sure what to do with them (like as not, now, I'll be making a fifth smoke just for them! :doh: ).

I agree about the no set rule. I've seen photos of WWII merchant convoys at sea making no smoke at all, and warships either with no smoke or horrendous smoke. So while I can't be totally historic/realistic in that regards I can at least try and make their funnel smokes look different and (hopefully) apropo.

Here is a short vid of the four types of funnel smoke I have so far. Comments are appreciated!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBJFgKsfNFU

Well, it seems to me like the stokers on that cargo steamer still don't care very much about the environment. Come to think of it, I guess they also don't care about advertising their position to every U-Boat within 30 miles.

It's always interesting to go on U-Boat.net and compare the number of steamships hit, as opposed to motor vessels. I think steamers suffered heavy casualties, even accounting for how common they were back then. Plus, you have to keep in mind that some of the motorships lost were in convoy with coal-burners, and would probably have survived if they had been sailing independently.

I agree that the smoke should go higher, especially with the thicker plumes - it looks very nice but IMO the coal-burner smoke should be in a slightly taller column.

[Graf Paper]

The various U-boat documentaries I've seen, especially the Grey Wolves series, do mention one significant fact about coal burners.

They belched huge clouds of thick, sooty black smoke that could easily be seen a dozen miles away. The video footage I saw of one coal fired cargo vessel showed smoke so dense and the plume was so large I at first thought the ship was on fire after being hit by a torpedo but she was simply cruising at five knots in convoy!

I suppose this was because the top speed of some of those old coalers was around 4-6 kts so they naturally produced a lot of smoke with their engines working hard.

If anything, you've got the heavy black part of the smoke right, AvH, but the plume needs to be more full and around two shiplengths long.

This is awesome work! With people using 16 km view it means you can actually ID a ship's general type by her smoke. I can hardly wait! :D

You're far too modest AvH! Be it blind luck or pure skill, you still rock! :rock:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

@Sailor Steve: Is there a way I can send you the Word doc I have? I appreciate the offer, and I could use the help sorting these lil' buggers.

@iambecomelife: fixed; the plume now rises more than before. (Just to give you an idea what I'm going through though --wry grin-- I have four single scripted missions: one with ships at 1 knot and no wind, another with them at half speed and no wind, a third at half speed and 10 m/s wind, and a forth with them at full speed. With every change I make I rerun all four, to compare how that changed characteristic effects the smoke effects.)

@Graf Paper: Thanks!!

[Jimbuna]

@Albrecht.....I've just noticed your multiple visits on the GWX TS server log. My apologies for having missed you mate. Is there something your after ? http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1817/thinkbigsw1yo4.gif

Question.....will this work be made to comply with JSGME ? http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

@Albrecht.....I've just noticed your multiple visits on the GWX TS server log. My apologies for having missed you mate. Is there something your after ? http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1817/thinkbigsw1yo4.gif

Question.....will this work be made to comply with JSGME ? http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

Yes, and yes. :D

I had a quick question to ask someone on the GWX team, which is why I've been popping in.

And yes, the enhanced funnel smoke mod will be useable with JSGME.


And now I'm up to five smokes, for the Clemsons and similar. :damn: :p

[Jimbuna]

@Albrecht.....I've just noticed your multiple visits on the GWX TS server log. My apologies for having missed you mate. Is there something your after ? http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1817/thinkbigsw1yo4.gif

Question.....will this work be made to comply with JSGME ? http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

Yes, and yes. :D

I had a quick question to ask someone on the GWX team, which is why I've been popping in.

And yes, the enhanced funnel smoke mod will be useable with JSGME.


And now I'm up to five smokes, for the Clemsons and similar. :damn: :p

I'm over on there now (for the next 30 mins or so) with TarJak. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

Hunter ICX and Kratos are also there (flying)

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Ok . . . unless anyone has any real complaints and/or observations :D ;) this should be how the funnel smokes will appear when released.

There are now 5 different kinds: 1) coal burning merchants, 2) diesel burning merchants, 3) light warships, 4) heavy warships and 5) older (4-stackers, as an example) warships.

Depending on comments I might make minor tweaks, but this should be it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr9Fnn4i7Nk

In the periscope views the ships are between 5.5 and 6.5 kilometers distant. In the first, they are doing 1 knot, in calm weather, with 5 m/s wind. In the second, they are moving between 12 and 20 knots, with the wind at 10 m/s.

[bigboywooly]

Very effective and much better

~ salute ~

Nice job :up:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Very effective and much better

~ salute ~

Nice job :up:

Thanks!

Now I think I'm gonna take a nap before I pass out. :-? :D

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

That's looking good, I love the heavy coal smoke going pretty high. And since you made a brand new library file for the smokes I guess more different kind of smokes can be added by you or individuals when needed and then used for any other existing or new ship, that really rocks :up:

I've pretty much tried to clone or create new files instead of altering pre-existing ones, in order to try and eliminate conflicts with other mods. And yes, it should be (relatively-speaking, anyway :p ) easy to add additional funnel smoke effects if anyone would want to do so. They'd just have to be edited into the ship class afterwards.

I'd hope that, with five different effects, I've covered all the bases though! ;)

[mengle]

you have done a great work , for me its a go for it :rock:

[Sailor Steve]

Looks good!:sunny:

[von Zelda]

Watched video, wonderful, great variations. When will it be ready and will it need an update when GWX 2.1 is released?

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Watched video, wonderful, great variations. When will it be ready and will it need an update when GWX 2.1 is released?

Thanks! :)

It's likely to need an update, yes, sooo . . . I haven't decided yet whether or not to wait until the update. Not exactly the best answer, I suppose, but it's the best I have at the moment.

[Jimbuna]

Kudos to you Albrecht.....really nice http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Wartzay]

very nice looking!
I'll be keeping an eye out for a [REL] :up:

[LordNeuro"Serbia"]

It reli looks good. Maybe and just maybe a litle ticker and stronger smoke for ather ships. I watch the movie and litle more smoke too ships will be nice. The whan on a coal looks rely good. All in all rely good job. And it add a tactical adventige now too sh3. Jujung by the smoke u cann now what shipe r u chasing. Keep up the great work , and relis soon.:up:

[iambecomelife]

Release date...?

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Release date...?

I'm pretty much waiting until GWX 2.1 is released, so I can check and see if any of the ship .sim files have been changed. Once that has been released I'll start changing each ship to match their funnel smoke type.

I might make one just for stock SHIII, too, if there is any interest in that.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding vague about the release date. But as there are around 180 different ships I'd foam at the mouth if I modded them all for funnel smoke only to have to do that again in a month or so. :dead:

[Sailor Steve]

Release date...?
Oh, of all the people to ask a question like that!:rotfl:

[bigboywooly]

Release date...?
Oh, of all the people to ask a question like that!:rotfl:

I was going to comment on that but felt best not to

:rotfl:

[Alex]

Release date...? Oh, of all the people to ask a question like that!:rotfl:

:88) :rotfl:

[iambecomelife]

:oops:

[Pablo]

Hi!

FWIW, oil-fueled warships (which are pretty much all ships in SH3) should generally not have a lot of smoke: if a warship is making a lot of smoke, it should be because it is shooting or making a smokescreen. In general, the amount of smoke will increase as speed increases, but I'm not sure how you would model that in SH3. I suggest any warship smoke should generally be a faint white or grey, based on photo evidence.

Pablo

==========

For example, this photograph of USS Indiana shows almost no funnel smoke at all:

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/k06000/k06035.jpg

This photo of USS North Carolina cruising alone shows some white (grey) smoke, but no black smoke.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h80000/h80988.jpg

This photo of USS Washington shows some black smoke during speed trials (maximum possible speed), which rapidly dissipates before the smoke cloud has gone past the second smokestack.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/n80000/n89065.jpg

This contrasts to the huge volume of smoke from a coal-burning warship at full speed, seen below, though all such ships were scrapped or converted to use fuel oil between the World Wars:

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h00001/h00553.jpg

[Jimbuna]

Release date...?
Oh, of all the people to ask a question like that!:rotfl:

I was going to comment on that but felt best not to

:rotfl:

Ditto :lol:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Hi!

FWIW, oil-fueled warships (which are pretty much all ships in SH3) should generally not have a lot of smoke: if a warship is making a lot of smoke, it should be because it is shooting or making a smokescreen. In general, the amount of smoke will increase as speed increases, but I'm not sure how you would model that in SH3. I suggest any warship smoke should generally be a faint white or grey, based on photo evidence.

Pablo

==========

For example, this photograph of USS Indiana shows almost no funnel smoke at all:


This photo of USS North Carolina cruising alone shows some white (grey) smoke, but no black smoke.


This photo of USS Washington shows some black smoke during speed trials (maximum possible speed), which rapidly dissipates before the smoke cloud has gone past the second smokestack.

This contrasts to the huge volume of smoke from a coal-burning warship at full speed, seen below, though all such ships were scrapped or converted to use fuel oil between the World Wars:



Sailor Steve has been helping me a great deal categorizing ships, matching them to their proper smoke. The biggest problem I'm encountering (which I feel is pretty familiar to most of us) is that 'one size does not fit all'.

There are many variables that influence the appearance of funnel smoke: fuel type, speed of vessel, age of vessel, type of vessel and condition (maintenance) of engines just to name a few (and the more applicable). So it's hard to take a given image or photo and decide to use that as the template for any given class.

Still, I want to try and make this as accurate as possible. If there is room for improvement and accuracy, well . . . I still have time. ;)

I'm going to patch together a preview mod for this and upload it to filefront. It'll have one of each of the six types (yes, six now) of funnel smoke, plus a single mission that has one of each of the ship class types.

There's a lot I can do to adjust the funnel smoke's appearance. Ranging from size, color, density, speed of ejection from the funnel, etc. I've no problems with tweaking this until I get something that is pleasing to all yet also remains as realistic as possible within the limitations of the game's engine.

Soon as I have it uploaded I'll post the link.

AvH

p.s. Pablo, thanks very much for hunting up and posting those photos!

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Sorry it took me so long.

Although I've posted some (pretty lame, I'm afraid) video of the enhanced funnel smokes, I thought it might be better to provide a preview of the different smoke types.

There are now six smoke effects. I'm not sure if I'm finished with #6 yet; actually I'm not sure of I'm finished with any of them yet. :roll: I keep getting some very good feedback and constructive criticism, and I haven't, as yet, made a final decision.

There is a single mission as part of this preview package. There are six different ships, one of each funnel smoke type. In order (starting closest to your submerged boat) they are:

1) Evarts: light warship smoke,
2) Revenge: heavy warship smoke,
3) Chemical freighter: merchant, coal smoke
4) tanker: merchant, diesel smoke
5) Clemson: older warship smoke (ex. 4-stackers), and,
6) liner/troop transport: passenger/ocean liner smoke.

Let me know what you think of them, please.

AvH


http://files.filefront.com/enhanced+funnel+smoke+prewzip/;9951592;/fileinfo.html

[iambecomelife]

Great job. The smoke is lots of fun to play around with. :D It is also very easy to add it to existing ships (as you mentioned). I set the particle weight to 0, among other things, to get the smoke to rise higher. No framerate issues whatsoever. :up: I have only tried the coal-burning merchant smoke - maybe tomorrow I can try the others. Here are pictures of the smoke at different distances:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/iambecomelife/Smo1.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/iambecomelife/Smo2.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/iambecomelife/Smo3.jpg

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Great job. The smoke is lots of fun to play around with. :D It is also very easy to add it to existing ships (as you mentioned). I set the particle weight to 0, among other things, to get the smoke to rise higher. No framerate issues whatsoever. :up: I have only tried the coal-burning merchant smoke - maybe tomorrow I can try the others.

Thanks! I'm glad you like it. :)

Once I release the mod I'll include info in the readme on what can be adjusted and how it (seems to) affect the smoke, so people can tweak it for their own taste if they wish. They can also frrely use it for their own created ships if they so wish. There are now seven distinct smoke effects, ranging from old smoky coal-burners to the most modern warships.

Just want to point out that when/if you make changes, make sure you test them out both at dead stop and at speed. Sometimes the smoke acts very differently when the ship is barely moving versus moving at speed.

I'm just polishing up smoke #7 to (try, anyway) resembling the warship smoke in the pics Pablo posted. Then it's just a matter of waiting for the GWX 2.1 release, modding the necessary ships then releasing the mod.

[mr chris]

Cant wait to try this out in game. Very good Mod Albrecht:up:

[melnibonian]

That's a wonderful mod and I can't wait to try it :yep: :up:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

The majority of the comments and observations, so far, have been that the warships' smokes have been too black; that they should be more grey in coloration. Which I agree. However, I've been unable to tweak them any lighter without losing their density. I wound up making a new material for the smoke and will be using that for the warships. Here is an example of the difference between the merchant smoke and warship smoke. The warship's is noticibly greyer in coloration:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/SH3Img6-4-2008_175721_250.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/SH3Img6-4-2008_175641_921.jpg

Unfortunately this'll mean I have to re-tweak and adjust the four warships' smoke effects to accomodate using the new material for their smoke. But hopefully this'll do the trick.

And thanks mr. chris and melnibonian, and everyone else who has been encouraging and complimenting me on this!

[Wolfehunter]

That looks much better AVH. wow very cool.:up:

[emaluzer]

Hows this mod coming along, been a bit and havent had any updates! Just wondering if a release is scheduled!

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Been having a bit of problems with my computer and with RL. I hope to have a final release by next weekend, assuming my pc doesn't terminally crap out. I apologize for the delay, especially now that GWX 2.1 has been released.

[Jimbuna]

Looking forward to it Albrecht http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Laffertytig]

does this mod make the smoke visible on the horizon before the ships appear?

[Phoenix3000]

Looking forward to this one Albrecht! :up:

Being able to get an idea of what type of ship has been spotted from the smoke on the horizon adds another level of realism to SH3.

Cheers!

Px3000

[Sailor Steve]

does this mod make the smoke visible on the horizon before the ships appear?
I've been able to see smoke before the ships for some time. Are you using 8km or 16km? If 8km, the the ships will always appear at about that distance, and you'll never see smoke first.

[Rubini]

Hi AVH,

Take a look here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=844799#post844799

Perhaps we can make a merged mod on the matter?:up:

[onelifecrisis]

Hi AVH,

Take a look here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=844799#post844799

Perhaps we can make a merged mod on the matter?:up:

:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

[Laffertytig]

ah right, the reason i ask is cos on another thread on page 2 there is a mod that messes with smoke stacks by makin them taller.

was just wonderin what the major differences where with the 2 mods thats all

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Hi AVH,

Take a look here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=844799#post844799

Perhaps we can make a merged mod on the matter?:up:

Just took a peek at that. I think merging would be a wonderful idea! I'm trying to finalize the smokes, but having some pc and RL difficulties the last couple of weeks. --sighs-- I'll get in touch with you soon and see what we can do together though.

[emaluzer]

how is this mod progressing? Looking forward to it with keen anticipation!

[TheDarkWraith]

Very impressive
Now if only someone knows how to make the damn stuff go higher :x

BUT
Within the limitations at the moment i will defo be adding that smoke into my install
Those coal burners look the part alright

Actually higher shouldn't be hard: just decrease the particle weight and increase the velocity.

better way - you have to adjust the lifetime of the particle and adjust the overlife properties of all it's fields (weight, size, velocity, color, opacity, etc.). Then play with the speed and weight. Using the overlife for each field you can custom tailor the particle to do anything you can imagine. The first lifetime is for the life of the FPG or PG itself, not the individual particles lifetime. By increasing the velocity and reducing it's weight you'll get smoke that doesn't look realistic.
If you change the rate then you also have to change the max particles because max particles is a function of rate and individual particle lifetime. Failure to set maxparticles correctly will results in puffs or starts and stops of the FPG or PG. Rate is based on the lifetime of the FPG or PG as used in overlife for it.
Do you know what the rate means? It means PPS (particles per second). Lifetime is in seconds (for both FPG or PG lifetime and individual particle lifetime). Velocity is in engine units, Weight is in kg, size is in engine units.
Each field's overlife uses linear interpolation - (time keeps increasing, it can never go back!) Once time starts (particle lifetime) it keep accruing till it's value is 1 and during that individual particle's lifetime it forces linear interpolation on the field (size, weight, color, opacity, etc.) it's controlling for those times. Once 1 is reached (the individual particle's lifetime), overlife, as far as it's concerned, is done. Everything after the first 1 for time will be ignored.

[msalama]

Oodles of great info there RB :up: But what the h*ll happened to Albrecht? The guy just vanished into thin air! He had some computer bother, etc. but that was ages ago so I'd think he'd have gotten those sorted by now :-?

Ah well. People do get bored with this stuff too, don't they? A pity b/c he had some great ideas...

[Sag75]

Hi, this is a great mod!!:up: I didn't read all posts, so maybe my question has been already answered...

Is it possible to orientate the smoke in according to the wind direction??

thx,

[TheDarkWraith]

Anvart,

They're not trying to re-invent the wheel, they're learning by experimenting. Just like you and I did when we were first learning how to do things we took on simple challenges and kept building on those simple ones. Eventually we were able to do what we can do now. They're just trying to broaden their horizons and I think it's great. Let 'em play :D Best thing we all can do is encourage others to experiment and try. You never know what can happen.

[bert8for3]

I guess there was nothing further on this. Anyone know if there's a similar smoke mod out there?

[makman94]

Sorry for the necro :)

I have the wip mod that was uploaded on AvH's filefront page and I adapted many ships on my install to use these new smokes, but I only have 5 different smokes and I see in the thread that there were at least 7 (page 4) ?

Albrecht seems to have vanished, but I think some people were testing the mod, so I wonder if anyone still has his latest files ?

In the files I have there's:

#funnel_smoke_merchant_coal
#funnel_smoke_merchant_diesel
#funnel_smoke_light_warship
#funnel_smoke_heavy_warship
#funnel_smoke_warship_old

It's well enough but I wouldn't mind having the extra variants.

Thanks in advance :up:

hello mikhayl,

can you upload the files you have in order all of us to get them? (i can't find them anywhere )

take care

[Sailor Steve]

Albrecht was talking to me directly at the time he was working on those, but the only thing I ever saw was a couple of videos showing how the work was progressing.

Sorry, but even though I was probably closer to this than anybody else, I have nothing at all. I wish he'd turn up again. He seemed like a great guy.

[makman94]

mikhayl...:up:

[Sailor Steve]

I'd like to release the coal smoke part of the mod, both for NYGM and GWX but I could use some help to make sure I'm giving it only to the right ships
It's impossible to identify the fuel used by every single ship, but the best rule of thumb is that the merchants (and tankers) with very tall, very thin funnels were the coal-fired ones. But there were newer ships with funnels that were almost as tall and almost as thin, so I'll check as many of the records that I can for build dates.

I'll look through them all tonight and give you my recommendations tomorrow.

[iambecomelife]

I agree with all the classifications, except "Medium Cargo" on page 13. It's supposed to represent a modern British cargo ship, which probably would have generated less smoke than average. On the whole, great job.

[kiwikapitan]

So Mikhayl is it your intention to finish what von Hesse started? If so then I'm all for it. Looked like a really cool idea to have different smoke for the ships. :rock::up:

[Sailor Steve]

Replied with list in the new thread.:sunny:

[Sailor Steve]

Okay, I downloaded the two sections of the manual, but didn't look at it at home last night. Looking at it as I type. :o Wow! They've got some nice looking small steamers in their version!

Page 8, ship 1 could go either way. It looks to me like a later steamer, with the slightly fatter funnel which could indicate coal or oil. Hard to say.

Page 10, ship 1 (Large Merchant (7075 t)) is actually very modern, as noted by the raked 'Atlantic' bow. Almost certainly built after 1935, and definitely oil-fired.

Page 11, ship 3: Looks like a late between-the-wars ship to me. Again, the funnel is fatter than the old coal-fired ships, and again it might be either one. You're doing it, so you get to choose.

Same thing with all three ships on page 12: I'd go for oil, as the fatter funnels indicate a newer ship.

Page 13: Of course IABL is right, as he made the ship in the first place. But just looking at the bow I'd call it too modern for coal. And the other two strike me the same way as the previous pages - maybe coal, maybe oil. It was a period of transition, and styles were changing a lot during that time.

Page 19, ship 2: Probably coal. Good to have at least one old liner making smoke, so I'd go for it.

Page 21, ship 1: I don't think so. Again the fatter funnel says newer to me.

Page 44, ships 1 and 2? The battleships. They were definitely oil-fired. Every British battleship was, starting in about 1912 (I'd have to look at my books to say when for sure, but the Revenge is the oldest ship on that page, and they were oil-fired)

Unless you meant page 45, in which case I'd say 1-no and 2-maybe (but probably yes).