PDA

View Full Version : Mechanical Malfunction...What a Rush!


sabretwo
03-28-08, 07:26 AM
Last night a glitch in the game (or SH3 Commander’s malfunctions feature) gave me the most intense convoy encounter I have had yet. After one previous encounter with a large convoy in the northern part of AM51 (sinking a Whale Factory Ship and evading the escorts), I plotted an intercept course for a second bite. I raced about 50 kilometers parallel with the convoy before proceeding north toward my planned interception point. It was night and the weather was heavy rain, light fog, and light chop on the water. Visibility was about 700 meters or so. Just as I was getting ready to dive to periscope depth, we almost ran directly into an enemy destroyer. I ordered crash dive and we narrowly missed a deck gun shot as U-122, an IXB, dropped below the surface.

Once underwater, I set us to Ahead Flank and set the depth to 220m. Once we reached 220, I set silent running and the speed to 1 knot. With the chop on the water and running about 75 rpms, I thought we had blown our chance at bagging a merchant, but at least we’d slip away. Then I noticed the depth gauge…

We were sinking…225…228…231

I decreased the depth trying to compensate. Nothing…233….235. I ordered ahead standard and finally we started ascending after we had reached 238m. During this time, another escort had joined the first.

For the next thirty minutes, I found myself playing a cat and mouse game evading depth charges while adjusting our speed to maintain depth. We tried holding our depth around 180m, but anytime I dropped my speed below 3 knots we would start to sink again. In the last three years at sea, I have never seen my first officer and helmsman, Herbert Linder, sweat so much. He kept a sturdy demeanor, but I could see the fear in his eyes.

We were as good as dead. Just one possible chance….a longshot.

After realizing that there was no way we were going to get out of this creeping out quietly, I ordered ahead flank and periscope depth. My crew looked at each other in disbelief, but they complied and we started ascending. I monitored the hydrophone contacts and oriented the sub toward an escort that was circling for a run. Quickly to the attack scope….TDC 3-shot spread, magnetic fuzes, 3 meters, and a quick prayer…open the doors.

Just as the attack scope broke surface, I could see a Hunt class destroyer at about 40-degrees, 500 meters, and getting ready to pass our bow. I didn’t know what his speed was nor his exact AOB, so I made a best guess at 80-degrees AOB and 10-knots. FIRE!

Just about the same time the last fish cleared the tube, I could hear myself being pinged and I ordered our depth back to 180m. The ticking of the stopwatch seemed like eternity…then suddenly, boom! One hit to the Hunt’s stern, the other two torps had missed. (Thanks, event camera!)

My men cheered as we listened to the crushing of the Hunt’s hull as it descended less than 300 meters from us. We realized that we may survive this yet. With only one escort left, we might stand a chance.

However, unknown to me at the time, there wasn’t just two escorts on the surface, but three.

We discovered that quickly when the next round of depth charging began. After monitoring the speed between runs and looking at the hydrophone contacts, there appeared to be two escorts left on the surface. Again we were locked into a vicious cycle of speeding up and slowing down, trying to maintain depth at 180m and yet slipping away quietly.

Not to be…after another thirty minutes of endless assault from the surface, luckily avoiding any serious damage, I ordered us off silent running and sent a team to the bow torpedo room to reload. It seemed to take forever for them to reload…meanwhile the party above continued…splash, splash, splash….boom, boom, boom.

Finally we had one more torpedo in the tube, giving us two stern and two bow. I could see that my men were tired and demoralized. Even Herbert looked like he had had too much. I ordered the entire bridge crew replaced immediately.

Once the new crew was seated, I ordered them to ahead flank and periscope depth. We started to ascend…could our luck get us through this again? Personally, I thought it was the end of the road.

While we ascended I set the TDC for a spread shot. When the periscope broke the surface it looked surreal. Water was washing over the lens distorted further by glare from the spotlights. I quickly turned the scope desperately to see what was going on. We had one last shot at this and if this didn’t work…(I’d have to call it a night and reload a saved game the next night!:cool: )

I could see one destroyer circling behind me and then a second at about 120-degrees port. Then I noticed, the second destroyer was stationary! (Probably using his hydrophones) Quickly…hard left rudder…ahead slow. We started turning, bringing our stern into alignment for the shot. Meanwhile I frantically set the TDC…700 meters was my best guess (no time for measuring masts), speed 0, 60-degree AOB, 1-degree spread. Rudder amidships. Open doors. …the destroyer started to appear in the scope…195…190….185…FIRE!

I ordered ahead flank and back to 180m. I quickly lost view of the target, praying he would remain still….several seconds passed before - BOOM! One hit.

The second escort made a pass over us at 40m. I thought we were dead, but by miracle all depth charges missed. I ordered us to 150m and then cut back to silent running and under 75 rpm…new course 170-degrees. We slowly started sinking again…but much slower this time. I ordered us to 130 meters…depth was held…we weren’t sinking or rising.

We all held our breath as the minutes seemed like hours….creeping little by little. Several times the remaining escort dropped charges, but they were too far away. After he passed over us several times without dropping charges we concluded he had lost us. We were lucky again. At 128 meters, we should have been an easy spot if he was using his active sonar.

After about another thirty minutes he gave up and rushed back to catch up to his flock. We slowly crept south, putting as much distance between him and us as possible. I then commended the men and went to my bunk, drew the curtain, and poured myself a brandy…noticing that my hand was still shaking just a little.

I yelled around the curtain to Adolf, the helmsman on the other side of the hatch…”Plot a course back to St. Nazaire! Surface and set speed to seven knots. This patrol is over!”

Jimbuna
03-28-08, 12:08 PM
Sounds like you experienced a real roller coaster ride http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

Contact
03-28-08, 12:20 PM
Interesting story :up: But when u reached the depth of 300 meters this sounds somehow unreal to me.. :\
Type IXB u-boats max depth 230 meters..
http://www.u-boat-reich.co.uk/u-boat-type-ixb.htm

Letum
03-28-08, 12:22 PM
Interesting story :up: But when u reached the depth of 300 meters this sounds somehow unreal to me.. :\
Type IXB u-boats max depth 230 meters..
http://www.u-boat-reich.co.uk/u-boat-type-ixb.htm


There was at least one VII boat that reached 900ft/~300m.

Contact
03-28-08, 12:27 PM
Interesting story :up: But when u reached the depth of 300 meters this sounds somehow unreal to me.. :\
Type IXB u-boats max depth 230 meters..
http://www.u-boat-reich.co.uk/u-boat-type-ixb.htm


There was at least one VII boat that reached 900ft/~300m.

Yeah the one in DAS BOOT :cool: , aint this sound a bit fiction ?

Philipp_Thomsen
03-28-08, 12:53 PM
If you read carefully, you will noticed that he misstyped... it was "228, 231, getting to 238"...

But on another subject, the game poorly simulates the deep depth effects. The bulkheads would collapse between 280-340 meters, depending on the sub. And there were supposed to be flooding instead of exploding glasses. SH2 simulated better this part.

msalama
03-28-08, 12:55 PM
:o

What an incredible story!!!

Yep, gotta love this game + GWX 2.0. Accept no substitutes... and... remember... SINK 'EM ALL!!! :arrgh!:

No but seriously, this is the best game / sim I've ever played, period. And I've played them a lot, starting with the original Doom I back in the day...

IL-2 you say? Bah. Doesn't hold a f*n candle to this magnificent body of work I'm telling ya. And this coming from an ex-HC IL-2er who did nothing else but flew that Sturmovik for years, on- and offline, too!

Am I - or the couple of beers inside me, dunno - done rambling yet??? ;)

msalama
03-28-08, 12:57 PM
SH2 simulated better this part.

Could this be fixed with some intelligent modding, or are we hitting a brick wall of "hard-coded" here?

sabretwo
03-28-08, 01:16 PM
Interesting story :up: But when u reached the depth of 300 meters this sounds somehow unreal to me.. :\
Type IXB u-boats max depth 230 meters..
http://www.u-boat-reich.co.uk/u-boat-type-ixb.htm

My bad! :oops: Typo...238 was my max depth when we started to ascend.
(I'll edit the original post.) I often go down to 225 when evading escorts, but that was the deepest I have ever taken this boat. Since I am using SH3 Commander to randomize crush depth, I had a major pucker factor!

Being still somewhat new to SH3, this whole experience was a huge rush! All else considered, I should have been sunk last night for sure.

I am still not sure what caused that inability to stabilize depth to happen...was it a failure to recover after the crash dive or was it an SH3 Commander simulated malfunction? Either way, I am assuming it can happen again and I don't want to push my luck this patrol...so its back to St. Nazaire to let the engineers have a look. (I'm also getting very low on torps too...Hopefully I'll get to use the last of them on an opportunistic lone merchant on the way.):arrgh!:

iambecomelife
03-28-08, 01:31 PM
:o

What an incredible story!!!

Yep, gotta love this game + GWX 2.0. Accept no substitutes... and... remember... SINK 'EM ALL!!! :arrgh!:

No but seriously, this is the best game / sim I've ever played, period. And I've played them a lot, starting with the original Doom I back in the day...

IL-2 you say? Bah. Doesn't hold a f*n candle to this magnificent body of work I'm telling ya. And this coming from an ex-HC IL-2er who did nothing else but flew that Sturmovik for years, on- and offline, too!

Am I - or the couple of beers inside me, dunno - done rambling yet??? ;)

I agree. IL-2 is a good game that would have been great if they'd done some more work on the immersion factor. Although Lowengrin and several other modders have worked miracles with it.

Nice story, too.

msalama
03-28-08, 03:26 PM
...if they'd done some more work on the immersion factor. Although Lowengrin and several other modders have worked miracles with it.

True Dat Sir.

The basic online gaming gets pretty shallow and repetitive after a while - and that's counting the online wars, too - and the offline sucks because the AI is just awful. True, DCG et. al. have added lots of content to the game, but then the basic engine just is that limited so there's not a lot you can do because the context is missing, plain and simple... but then again it's an ancient engine, so maybe we should all just wait for BoB, no ;)

All that said it still pays to remember IMHO that SH3 is a more recent game, so no wonder it's far better...

Yup, and what they say about the apples and oranges thingy also holds true IMHO ;)

Still, liking this far more myself. Thus a huge S! to all involved who made this thing the best gaming / simming experience I've seen so far :up:

Letum
03-28-08, 03:33 PM
Interesting story :up: But when u reached the depth of 300 meters this sounds somehow unreal to me.. :\
Type IXB u-boats max depth 230 meters..
http://www.u-boat-reich.co.uk/u-boat-type-ixb.htm

There was at least one VII boat that reached 900ft/~300m.
Yeah the one in DAS BOOT :cool: , aint this sound a bit fiction ?

I had another one in mind. I forget wich.
I don't remember any extreemely deep dives in D.B. (?)

msalama
03-28-08, 03:43 PM
I don't remember any extreemely deep dives in D.B. (?)

The incident where they hit the bottom near Gibraltar I think. I forget the exact depth, but some artistic licence may have been involved nevertheless ;)

Gezur(Arbeit)
03-28-08, 04:07 PM
Erich Topp was deeper than 250 meters too.

von hally
03-28-08, 04:09 PM
Interesting story :up: But when u reached the depth of 300 meters this sounds somehow unreal to me.. :\
Type IXB u-boats max depth 230 meters..
http://www.u-boat-reich.co.uk/u-boat-type-ixb.htm

My bad! :oops: Typo...238 was my max depth when we started to ascend.
(I'll edit the original post.) I often go down to 225 when evading escorts, but that was the deepest I have ever taken this boat. Since I am using SH3 Commander to randomize crush depth, I had a major pucker factor!

Being still somewhat new to SH3, this whole experience was a huge rush! All else considered, I should have been sunk last night for sure.

I am still not sure what caused that inability to stabilize depth to happen...was it a failure to recover after the crash dive or was it an SH3 Commander simulated malfunction? Either way, I am assuming it can happen again and I don't want to push my luck this patrol...so its back to St. Nazaire to let the engineers have a look. (I'm also getting very low on torps too...Hopefully I'll get to use the last of them on an opportunistic lone merchant on the way.):arrgh!:


lo sabretwo

dont want to spoil your hair raising exploits but the reason youre sinkling deeper and deeper is a part of gwx. there is no automatic neutral bouyancy anymore...so if you go under 1-2 knots your boat will descend....i too found that out the hard way...everytime i increased speed to asscend...the dd heard me.

there is a mod to revert back to neutral bouancy..but if your having that mutch fun then i doubt you would want to!!!!

msalama
03-28-08, 05:38 PM
Since I am using SH3 Commander to randomize crush depth, I had a major pucker factor!

Yeah :lol: As a n00b I played a training mission a while ago where there're some Liberties and a couple of escorts and me of course attacking them... was forced to 230+ and the boat, amazingly enough, held up... later on I also had to play cat and mouse w/ both of the destroyers for a couple of hours, not to mention them getting some air support after a while too :o

I survived, though, for some reason. Isn't this an amazing game???

sabretwo
03-28-08, 05:44 PM
lo sabretwo

dont want to spoil your hair raising exploits but the reason youre sinkling deeper and deeper is a part of gwx. there is no automatic neutral bouyancy anymore...so if you go under 1-2 knots your boat will descend....i too found that out the hard way...everytime i increased speed to asscend...the dd heard me.

there is a mod to revert back to neutral bouancy..but if your having that mutch fun then i doubt you would want to!!!!

I don't know if "fun" is the exactly right word. Yeah it was cool, but I don't think I could repeat that feat if I tried a hundred times.

I am surprised to hear that its a GWX issue. I have dived deep many times in GWX 2.0 and never had a problem keeping neutral bouancy at 200+ meters and 1 knot speed (50-75 rpm). I was thinking it may have had to do with the crash dive. The only other times I have crash dived in GWX was to evade aircraft and in those cases I don't think I ever went below 50m and less than 4-7 knots.

Can someone from the GWX team weigh in on this?

I'll also do an experiment tonight and see if the problem repeats. This time with crash diving and I'll also try it again without, just ahead flank and set depth 210m.

One thing that would be cool with SH3 Commander, if possible, would be a message from the mechanics when something has failed owing to random mechancial problems. That way it would be easier to discover and identify as generated by SH3 Commander.

thestoon
03-28-08, 08:06 PM
I was thinking it may have had to do with the crash dive. The only other times I have crash dived in GWX was to evade aircraft and in those cases I don't think I ever went below 50m and less than 4-7 knots.



Is this on the same patrol? I rememeber a bug that if you abort a crash dive before you reach the set depth (80 metres I think), then your boat is stuck in a bow down attitude - and unable to keep depth at slow speed. I may be wrong, but it rings a bell for some reason... Easy enough to test. Back in a mo! :)

difool2
03-28-08, 10:24 PM
I ordered crash dive and we narrowly missed a deck gun shot as U-122, an IXB, dropped below the surface.

Once underwater, I set us to Ahead Flank and set the depth to 220m. Once we reached 220, I set silent running and the speed to 1 knot. With the chop on the water and running about 75 rpms, I thought we had blown our chance at bagging a merchant, but at least we’d slip away. Then I noticed the depth gauge…

We were sinking…225…228…231

I decreased the depth trying to compensate. Nothing…233….235. I ordered ahead standard and finally we started ascending after we had reached 238m. During this time, another escort had joined the first.
Yes, as others have said, that is the "crash dive" bug; if you order a descent at full speed manually, you can maintain depth at depth, but hitting the crash dive button futzes something up in the way the boat trims when deep and you will sink at any speed below 6-8 knots. So always order dive changes manually, and never hit that "C" button.

Philipp_Thomsen
03-28-08, 10:34 PM
I was planning on making a mod where you can go deeper and the boat would just collapse in a blink of an eye around 300-320 meters (more realistic), but if I tweak the game this way, there will be no pipes blowing up, no glass breaking, no warnings of being too deep. So the boat will be okay and then suddenly pop-up like a ballon if dive 1 more meter down. Would be nice to have both, to be more realistic, as the bulkheads would completly collapse around that depth.

But I thought that this mod would not catch on, coz a lot of people wouldnt like the idea. So I just use it myself.

sabretwo
03-29-08, 06:21 AM
Completed my test last night. Sure enough...it is a crash dive bug. When I descended ahead flank, no problem. When I crash dived, I'd sink like a rock at slower speeds.

Phillip: I like your idea. It sounds truer to real life. However, is there a way to mod it so instead of having glass blow, you get some very major hull creaking going on...an indicator of what's yet to come Bown seals would probably start before that too, logically.

Water boy
03-29-08, 04:17 PM
Watched a prog on discovery today about the U234, eyewitness said they went to 900ft to get below depth charges.
She was a type X, though the max depth given for these boats was 220 metres or 770 odd feet .

Jimbuna
03-29-08, 04:44 PM
Watched a prog on discovery today about the U234, eyewitness said they went to 900ft to get below depth charges.
She was a type X, though the max depth given for these boats was 220 metres or 770 odd feet .

There are a few reports of some boats exceeding 1000 feet.

U-234 had quite an interesting end (in terms of cargo and personnel) http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

http://uboat.net/boats/u234.htm

gimpy117
03-29-08, 08:46 PM
ive had to blow in sh4 to escape dieing and then porpoused for a while trying to stay down so i didn't get blown to bits.