View Full Version : Just for once...
DeepIron
03-24-08, 11:18 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7311565.stm
Just for once, I wish these guys (US military) would go ahead and provide incontrivertable evidence that Iran is mixed up in this. You know, show the world photographic evidence, verified by a third party, of Iranian arms being used or something...
Maybe then the world might get behind the US when it makes these accusations. Otherwise, it's just the same old saw...:nope:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7311565.stm
Just for once, I wish these guys (US military) would go ahead and provide incontrivertable evidence that Iran is mixed up in this. You know, show the world photographic evidence, verified by a third party, of Iranian arms being used or something...
Maybe then the world might get behind the US when it makes these accusations. Otherwise, it's just the same old saw...:nope:
There is no such thing as "incontrovertable evidence". You could say the sky is blue and somebody would argue with you. Especially when it comes to this stuff. It's not like they stamp "Made in Iran" on the shaped charges and other munitions they send into Iraq. Even if they did someone would discount it.
Tchocky
03-24-08, 11:42 AM
Well, John mcCain has been running around the Middle East saying that Iran are training Al-Qaeda.
He doesn't need evidence, he served his country in Vietnam don't you know.
DeepIron
03-24-08, 11:49 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7311565.stm
Just for once, I wish these guys (US military) would go ahead and provide incontrivertable evidence that Iran is mixed up in this. You know, show the world photographic evidence, verified by a third party, of Iranian arms being used or something...
Maybe then the world might get behind the US when it makes these accusations. Otherwise, it's just the same old saw...:nope:
There is no such thing as "incontrovertable evidence". You could say the sky is blue and somebody would argue with you. Especially when it comes to this stuff. It's not like they stamp "Made in Iran" on the shaped charges and other munitions they send into Iraq. Even if they did someone would discount it.
Whatever you say August...
Well, John mcCain has been running around the Middle East saying that Iran are training Al-Qaeda.
He doesn't need evidence, he served his country in Vietnam don't you know.
Because Iran would never, ever interfere in the affairs of a foreign nation right? :roll:
Whatever you say August...
Because you obviously know better than anyone right Deep?
Tchocky
03-24-08, 12:00 PM
Well, John mcCain has been running around the Middle East saying that Iran are training Al-Qaeda.
He doesn't need evidence, he served his country in Vietnam don't you know.
Because Iran would never, ever interfere in the affairs of a foreign nation right? :roll:
Point taken, Iran aren't cuddly.
But for McCain to expect us to believe that Shia Iran is training Sunni Al-Qaeda is absurd. Three options here. One, a simple slip-up, happens to everybody. Two, McCain is not as mentally stable as we'd like button-folk to be. Three, it's what he believes.
"Iran is training al-Qaeda" - switch one letter and we've all heard this one before.
DeepIron
03-24-08, 12:04 PM
Whatever you say August...
Because you obviously know better than anyone right Deep?
Nope... Instead of arguing the issue with you, (and risk being called "a bitter Betty" or some such silliness for my efforts) I'll concede it quickly and give you whatever satisfaction you find in "winning" the argument.
You win August.
TteFAboB
03-25-08, 01:05 AM
If it's bad for Iraq and for the US, what's there to loose?
Stealth Hunter
03-25-08, 02:35 AM
There really is no proof that Iran is helping the terrorists. There's only been talk. Bush never has shown us concrete evidence that Iran was supplying insurgents fighting in Iraq. We've been told that there are "many sources" who can confirm Iranian involvement with Al-Qaeda, but he never has revealed these sources OR at the very least told us how reliable these sources are.
This is a song we've heard many times. "I have many reliable and important sources at this time that can confirm the issue at hand." Yeah, that's nice. Now can we see these sources, please to discern how reliable they are? Can we see these details that can confirm the issue? There's never an answer, there's just silence. We never get an answer to any of these questions, just reassurance afterward. Like Iran's nuclear program. Yeah, we heard the exact same thing. Many reliable sources, confirms that Iran is making nukes, we should mark them as a severe threat to America. Then perhaps you should explain to us why the Iranian nuclear research and development program has been discontinued indefinitely since 2003. Bush comes out then and has the balls to say that it doesn't make any difference if the Iranians were making nuclear weapons or not. IT MAKES A HELL OF A LOT OF A DIFFERENCE. You tell us that there's PROOF from your sources that Iran is making nukes, you make these outlandish claims ON TV, your speech is shot down by a simple document, and you tell us it makes no difference, despite the fact you were pushing for a WAR that would get even more American soldiers killed? Yes, this makes perfect sense...
joegrundman
03-25-08, 03:13 AM
You are arguing the toss and it makes no difference.
Whether the US government is right or wrong about this doesn't matter because no one believes a word the US government says anymore. The assumption now is that what comes out of US administration mouths is not the truth but merely what they decided today was expedient. You cashed in your credibility with Iraq.
Who knows whether it is true or not? There is no one who both knows and is trusted to say the truth
Stealth Hunter
03-25-08, 03:16 AM
Indeed. I've recently, with this recession and such, been considering more and more everday moving to Canada or to Germany with my brother. It's getting very bad, and I fear the worst for the United States of America.
You win August.
That's nice. At first I didn't know I was arguing with you. Are all your convictions that weak kneed?
But for McCain to expect us to believe that Shia Iran is training Sunni Al-Qaeda is absurd.
I agree. Got a link for that Tchocky? DeepIrons quickly disavowed BBC story only mentions Petraeus.
Tchocky
03-25-08, 07:49 AM
Yar, links aplenty.
Glenn Greenwald (http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/03/20/mccain/index.html)
WashPost (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/03/18/a_mccain_gaffe_in_jordan.html)
ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/20/mccain-asserted-iranal-qaeda-ties-last-month/) I know, I know :p
Al-Jazeera (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/48E2CA5A-F263-4546-AF14-BB6C9E0B307B.htm)
AP (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MCCAIN_JORDAN?SITE=SCGRE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
Skybird
03-25-08, 09:03 AM
Let's keep Iranian Shia and Al-Quaeda two separates, both of which do their business in Iraq. Thinking that all hostile groups in Iraq are cooperating just because they all fight against the US and the Iraqui state, is misleading. The timing of heavy fighting having broken out in Basra, the Mahdi army being involved, is far more insteresting. It was said the Iraqi security forces choosed time and place, but I don't buy it. I assume they had to choose like they did because circumstances forced them to.
Yar, links aplenty.
Glenn Greenwald (http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/03/20/mccain/index.html)
WashPost (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/03/18/a_mccain_gaffe_in_jordan.html)
ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/20/mccain-asserted-iranal-qaeda-ties-last-month/) I know, I know :p
Al-Jazeera (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/48E2CA5A-F263-4546-AF14-BB6C9E0B307B.htm)
AP (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MCCAIN_JORDAN?SITE=SCGRE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
As far as i can tell from those links (I skipped thinkprogress and salon) he made that mistake once in Jordan. The way you put it he has made that mistake repeatedly.
DeepIron
03-25-08, 09:17 AM
Are all your convictions that weak kneed? Can't resist taking a personal jab, eh? My convictions are just as weak as your counter-arguments...
Are all your convictions that weak kneed? Can't resist taking a personal jab, eh? My convictions are just as weak as your counter arguments...
Your quick capitulation shows no evidence of it... :roll:
DeepIron
03-25-08, 09:31 AM
Are all your convictions that weak kneed? Can't resist taking a personal jab, eh? My convictions are just as weak as your counter arguments...
Your quick capitulation shows no evidence of it... :roll:
Movin' on, movin' on...
Movin' on, movin' on...
So you're finally going to move to Canada like you said then?
DeepIron
03-25-08, 10:54 AM
Movin' on, movin' on...
So you're finally going to move to Canada like you said then?
Nope. Thinking about Rhode Island now... I've never lived on the East Coast and RI seems as good a place as any... Good job prospects for professional programmers in the BosWash corridor...
I'll let you know if and when, and maybe you can help me find a temporary apartment...
Movin' on, movin' on...
So you're finally going to move to Canada like you said then?
Nope. Thinking about Rhode Island now... I've never lived on the East Coast and RI seems as good a place as any... Good job prospects for programmers in the BosWash corridor...
Well you are of course quite welcome to my little state but be warned: Taxes are insane here and getting worse.
Tchocky
03-25-08, 11:08 AM
Spent a long weekend in Providence last year.
I don't remember much of it, but I'm sure it was a lovely place ;)
Spent a long weekend in Providence last year.
I don't remember much of it, but I'm sure it was a lovely place ;)
Yeah Providence does look a lot better than it did 20 years ago that's for sure, but the main architect of that renaissance just got out of jail on a 5 year racketeering conspiracy rap and his replacement is the son of a big mob lawyer so I don't know if it will last.
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