Wimpy Escorts

[Robert Murphy]

Has anyone had a session with SHIV where they attack a convoy then have to make a narrow escape against aggressive escorts? It seems too easy: I submerge, attack, I hear a few pings and then they quit. I think I've been depth charged twice--all missed.

This game lacks drama...

Robert

[Zantham]

I've attacked convoys firing 4 torps forward, turning 180 degrees to line up my stern tubes at ahead full (periscope depth), popped off the last two torps, then motored it out of there without going deep. Escorts just sat still. Once even passed within a hundred meters (by accident) in front of a destroyer, with no reaction.

There are mods out that will really alleviate this behavior however. I know Trigger Maru vamps up the enemy's aggressiveness, and probably RFB does as well.

[Ducimus]

>>This game lacks drama...

It used to.

[TDK1044]

The unmodded game lacks Drama. Run a mod like TMO and the escorts will kick your ass if you're not careful. :D

[Rockin Robbins]

Just try it with TMO. You won't GET TO a convoy guarded by four or more escorts, especially the hated subchasers. If you're not a fancy dancer, they'll be the hunters, you the trophy on their wall. As a refugee from GWX I can tell you that TMO escorts are not trivial.

[nfitzsimmons]

Just try it with TMO. You won't GET TO a convoy guarded by four or more escorts, especially the hated subchasers. If you're not a fancy dancer, they'll be the hunters, you the trophy on their wall. As a refugee from GWX I can tell you that TMO escorts are not trivial.

Second that!!!

[Midnight Hunter]

Agreed TMO is the way to go for escorts that are nasty. I found a convoy with a DD and a Sweeper as the only two escorts, needless to say I figured it would be like shooting fish in a barrell Well 9 real time hours later, I have finally managed to escape the depthcharging and am on a slow and steady course out of dodge. They are relentless and somehow manage to locate you even below the thermal layer while running silent at 1 knot :shifty:

Give it a go and see if you like the escorts after that :huh:

[Ducimus]

>>They are relentless and somehow manage to locate you even below the thermal layer while running silent at 1 knot
>>

Thermal layer in SH4 is not a magical barrier through which no sonar may pass. The thermal layer only reduces the strength of the signal the AI is recieving. I guess you could say it sort functions like a muffler, or a silencer for a gun.

[Rockin Robbins]

...a magical barrier through which no light passes, in TMO. Ducimus' evil airplanes will hunt you out, spotting you at periscope depth, sometimes far below periscope depth just to keep you awake. Once they spot you they will bomb you and then call all their many friends to drop presents to you also.

You will be begging for boredom.:yep:

War is hell. You are lunch. Fear returns to the Silent Hunter series.

[Midnight Hunter]

>>They are relentless and somehow manage to locate you even below the thermal layer while running silent at 1 knot
>>

Thermal layer in SH4 is not a magical barrier through which no sonar may pass. The thermal layer only reduces the strength of the signal the AI is recieving. I guess you could say it sort functions like a muffler, or a silencer for a gun.

Yeah I know it isn't like a wall but I figure running silent (heck even stopped) would atelast throw them off the scent a bit but they just keep coming. Not that I mind, I dont want a cakewalk.. :up:

[MarkShot]

Just curious - Is the escort AI any better in SH4 than SH3?

It seems that for SH3 challenge can be increased by tweaking sensors sensitivity and object noise, but object behavior is a hard coded given. The range of AI behavior by AI escorts individually and collectively is rather limited when compared to such classic titles as AOD and SHCE.

One of the nicest features of SC/DW by Sonalysts was the use of "doctrine files" which is interpreted programming language that describes AI object behavior. The SCXIIc mod for SC practically trippled the number of lines logic defined for surface ships, AI subs, and torps.

For example, in the stock SC game, AI subs would evade an inbound torp (smart weapon) by simply trying to outrun it. This on the whole tended not to be very effective. SCXIIc AI sub extend away from an inbound fish diagonally; placing emphasis on getting out of the seeker's detection cone. Totally, changes how the game plays. Just one example of how powerful such a design of AI is for those who want to mod.

[kikn79]

Has anyone had a session with SHIV where they attack a convoy then have to make a narrow escape against aggressive escorts? It seems too easy: I submerge, attack, I hear a few pings and then they quit. I think I've been depth charged twice--all missed.

This game lacks drama...

Robert

Have a go at Bungo Pete and see if you still think it lacks drama. Oh, wait. You won't be alive to tell.... :rotfl:

Deuce, Why don't you introduce Mr. Murphy to the old boy.....

Chuck

[Meyngray]

On my second mission, found a convoy of 2 light destroyers and one t3 tanker. Got the tanker with 2 (g1?) @ 32ft, and after that, the escorts slowed to a stop. Easy target @ 2000.

my realism is only 58%

Could that be it?

[Robert Murphy]

What's the TMO mod exactly and where can I download it?

Thanks for your advice Gentleman. ;-)

Robert

[JREX53]

Look in the SH4 Mods Forum.

Trigger Maru Overhaul (TMO) Link:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=132330

Run Silent Run Deep (RSRDC) Link:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123467

Hope this helps!!

[Robert Murphy]

Hey, thanks Jim--appreciate it.

Robert

[theluckyone17]

And if you think you've got TM nailed down, try it at a full 100% realism. You don't realize how much of a crutch the external camera is until you don't have it. I hate/love being down in the depths, listening to the hydrophones, trying to figure out:
1. Which destroyer's gonna make its run next.
2. How I'm going to get my bow around so he can't ping me
3. How noisy the sub is, how noisy is has to be, and how noisy can I get before it kills me
4. Whether I can make a quick jaunt up to 'scope depth to get another round off
5. Whether there's a juicy target sitting on a nice firing solution when I get up to 'scope depth or not.

I've gotten really paranoid, and good at listening to the 'phones. I think the wife's starting to wonder about me, though... :huh:

[THE_MASK]

no drama in this game
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5410/okba6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
unedited shot , w_clear sunset

[Hylander_1314]

No excitement? Running SH4 1.4, with TM, found a big taskforce heading for the Philipines in the Luzon Straits, had 3 outta 4 torps nail the lead Kongo BB, the 4th was a dud. The BB exploded like the Arizona did at Pearl, but the aftermath was 10 hours of 7 destroyers continually dropping ash cans on me until I was able to lose them. Making 45 degree and 90 degree turns at flank, then shutting down to 1 knot. Too bad we can't give the order to turn the electric motors down to 50 rpms, for real silent running. And there was no popping up to the surface to take in the sights, or fire off a salvo at the escorts. Besides they usually adjust their speed, or turn to avoid them anyways.

[TheSatyr]

Perhaps it's just me,but I've found that escorts in Stock SH4 run the gamut from "I see nothing,I hear nothing" to tenacious bulldogs...about what I would expect from real life escorts.

All you have to do is read Japanese Destroyer Captain. Hara was brilliant in surface combats,but rather pitiful when it came to subs. Yeah he sank one Dutch sub,but it was handed to him on a platter. Other times he'd just drop a few DCs to try to scare the sub off. He wasn't real big on processing contacts.

Most destroyer captains in the IJN were drilled constantly on surface combat,but anti-sub combat was an afterthought. It was only as the war progressed that anti-sub training became important and mostly with the subchaser and DE Skippers.

[AlmightyTallest]

Don't know if anyone knows the answer to this, but I've run TMO and TM for awile now and can attest to the rather tough escorts. My one question is if I run TMO for 1.5 and then put in RSRD Phase III Plus, does this change the AI behavior of the ships?

Because I've run TMO 1.5 and wouldn't dare surface into a gunbattle with even a subchaser for fear of being blown to pieces. Whenever I get into the same scenario with RSRD Phase 3, I noticed the escorts were missing me at literally point blank range surfaced. Just wondered what was changed, or if I happened to just get lucky with a ship that had a lower AI level.

[swdw]

Just try it with TMO. You won't GET TO a convoy guarded by four or more escorts, especially the hated subchasers.
Cough, cough . . say what!:D

I have TMO installed to check some issues reported with the draft and dive rate mod.

Interecepted a convoy north of luzon heading south with OVER eight escorts. DD's, minesweepers, and subchasers.

Not only did I sneak in once, but got in a second time after shadowing the convoy for 24 hours. Yeah they DC'd me after the first attack, but managed to only take some minor damage- deck gun and aa gun.

It's all in the approach. Even though they picked me up the first time on the approach, they lost me and started dropping charges where they thought I was. That allowed me to get into the middle of the convoy.

Second time I not only got off my bow tubes, but turned and shot with the stern tubes (Porpoise class, only 6 tubes total). That time the boat took a thrashing, but still managed to eventually break contact

Ducimus doesn't make it impossible, just difficult:up:

[Rockin Robbins]

It's also the luck of the draw on what abilities the escorts have. That aspect more than any other is a big part of the fun of SH4, the not knowing if you're going up against great escorts or less gifted ones. Every attack is different.

I love to match wits with the good ones. But sometimes it's a relief to run into those who are happy to indiscriminately depth charge whatever hunk of real estate that meets their fancy.

For a player new to TMO I don't think it would matter which kind they encountered. They would be shocked at the aggressiveness and warlike manner even of the lesser escorts. They put you at your best because anything less is death.:arrgh!:

And yes, especially in the initially frustrating stages, it's important to remind yourself that the task is not impossible, just difficult. You can succeed against TMO, and the sense of accomplishment is great. Just don't think you're going to get away with ducking under the thermal layer, hitting silent running and leaving the computer to make lunch.:gulp:

[swdw]

Just don't think you're going to get away with ducking under the thermal layer, hitting silent running and leaving the computer to make lunch.:gulp:

You mean like this LT Lunkhead post (note the author) :rotfl:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=807812&postcount=12