View Full Version : Some interesting things from SH4...
Hi guys,
I was looking at Sh4 this afternoon and then I had a wish to port the draining water to Sh3. The below are the first results. It works very well with any waves state (only appears when are out of the waves) and also when submerge /emerge - by the way, in this situations is very, very good indeed. I don´t had time yet to play with the settings to perhaps adjust their spawn point on the sub, high, intensity, color, frequency, etc. With S3D, now all is possible - LOL.
My first questions is if these draining water are realistic for uboats and if you guys will like it or not. If we really like and want it i will then go ahead and finish the mod. I will go in a trip for the holiday so only the next week i will return to work on it.
Regards,
Rubini.
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/899/night1qd5.jpg
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/7731/dusk1td3.jpg
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7738/day1pn1.jpg
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9533/day2gt5.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6439/day3pp3.jpg
Good day Rubini,
As I am not a Sub specialist, I cannot tell you whether this draining water looks accurate but I DO like the idea very much and the effect added to the already top realism.
Everytime top modders like you have an idea, SH3 gets another fantastic look !
Another way to say that, to me, it is worth working on that
:up:
Barbac
Philipp_Thomsen
03-20-08, 04:32 AM
I keep waiting and waiting to gwx 2.1 to come out for me to reinstall my sh3, but with all these amazing mods poping out its impossible.
Yes, mate, please finish this mod, its fantastic! And yes, the drainins are almost acurate, only the water spills are a little incorrect, its more like water leaking, and not like water ejecting under pressure from it.
Em portugues pra ficar mais claro, a agua parece estar saindo com pressão, ela está espumando pra fora, tem como vc mudar um pouco a cor dela, colocar mais cor de agua, pq a agua que escorre dali, escorre sem pressão nenhuma, e nas fotos parece q ela está sendo esquichada pra fora. Fora isso, ta perfeito. Se isso for hardcoded, esquece, deixa assim mesmo. Mas ótimo trabalho cara, mto boa sua ideia! :up:
kys2000
03-20-08, 06:51 AM
great works!
give your result,I will also works on it !
OK! Thanks!
I really need to know from where the water drain from a uboat. Someone havy some Rela Life WWII era pics to share with this effect?
Before stop the work and go to sleep I found all the controllers for the position (any place on the uboat), color, intensity, frequency, etc (well don't differ much from any particle/materials controls), so I guess that will be possible to adjust it to ahve even a better effect than in stock SH4.
@ Phillip_Thomsen: yes , the most worst visual effect is really the water seeming to spills over pressure sometimes. This is a bad effect ported directly from stock SH4. I will play with the settings to see if I found something more discrete and with more natural look. This is as I like it too and will follow this idea as first objective to acquire with the mod: a more natural look possible. Abraços, amigo!:up:
bert8for3
03-20-08, 08:09 AM
@Rubini. Hi Rubini. IIRC from some other posts a while ago, you're using a big widescreen monitor these days, and I notice from your screenshots looking at your dials that you don't seem to have stretch. Since I have some stretch, altho not a big deal, out of curiosity are you running the game windowed or with black bars on both sides or have you found some solution to stretch?
Tks. Don't mean to take thread OT btw but am curious.
kakemann
03-20-08, 08:10 AM
Is it reall possible? Woow!
bert8for3
03-20-08, 08:23 AM
OK! Thanks!
...
I really need to know from where the water drain from a uboat. Someone havy some Rela Life WWII era pics to share with this effect?
...
A couple of pics here ... http://www.uboataces.com/history-gallery3.shtml and esp first photo on page 4 of the gallery. Haven't looked at all the pages. But your own effects look great anyway.
either way realistic or not...(there has to be a way to utilise the addition appropiately)...it's very very nicely done!:yep:
@Rubini. Hi Rubini. IIRC from some other posts a while ago, you're using a big widescreen monitor these days, and I notice from your screenshots looking at your dials that you don't seem to have stretch. Since I have some stretch, altho not a big deal, out of curiosity are you running the game windowed or with black bars on both sides or have you found some solution to stretch?
Tks. Don't mean to take thread OT btw but am curious.
Hi bert,
Yes, I have a big 26"LCD wide but SH3 I play in normal 4:3. I tried some time ago to adjust the FOVs do meet widescreen but without success, than I go back to normal 4:3.
Is it reall possible? Woow!
Yes!:up:
bert8for3
03-20-08, 08:52 AM
Yes, I have a big 26"LCD wide but SH3 I play in normal 4:3. I tried some time ago to adjust the FOVs do meet widescreen but without success, than I go back to normal 4:3.
... I can imagine that with that size of screen going back to 4:3 aspect still gives you a huge game display. Tks, and signing off on this subject so as not to take thread OT.
OK! Thanks!
...
I really need to know from where the water drain from a uboat. Someone havy some Rela Life WWII era pics to share with this effect?
...
A couple of pics here ... http://www.uboataces.com/history-gallery3.shtml and esp first photo on page 4 of the gallery. Haven't looked at all the pages. But your own effects look great anyway.
yes, this one.:up:
http://www.uboataces.com/photos/20059142048038072.jpg
Seems that the water "leak" from the lateral vents from all the uboat body. (Interesting is also how, in the RL pics, the uboats are much more "into the water" than we have on Sh3/GWX. This is another thing that annoys me.)
I will try to adjust all the water stream to start from the lateral vents...anyway in the end the final effect will be more or less how we have it now on Sh4, with some tweaks here and there.:up:
Kaleu. Jochen Mohr
03-20-08, 09:05 AM
looking verry good, cant wait to try it :up:
and i say again, SH3 is getting closer to the real thing :rock:
Philipp_Thomsen
03-20-08, 09:44 AM
(Interesting is also how, in the RL pics, the uboats are much more "into the water" than we have on Sh3/GWX. This is another thing that annoys me.)
I also think thats true. Why dont you do a fix for that together with the waterspill mod? Its pretty easy to fix that, in the uboat.sim files, draught surfaced. Although I was some time ago playing around with that and noticed that the more increase in draught, the more speed you lose. And if you lift whe uboat out of water, lets say, only 1,5 meters into water, you gain a lot of speed. So by doing that you might mess around with a lot of other unwanted stuff.
(Interesting is also how, in the RL pics, the uboats are much more "into the water" than we have on Sh3/GWX. This is another thing that annoys me.)
I also think thats true. Why dont you do a fix for that together with the waterspill mod? Its pretty easy to fix that, in the uboat.sim files, draught surfaced. Although I was some time ago playing around with that and noticed that the more increase in draught, the more speed you lose. And if you lift whe uboat out of water, lets say, only 1,5 meters into water, you gain a lot of speed. So by doing that you might mess around with a lot of other unwanted stuff.
I played with this yesterday too. Using GWX uboat files I noticed that the best result was with draught=0 (at least for the type IXd2). With this setting Sh3 reads the draught from the 3D object itself. And, yes it losses speed and also range.:-? So if we play with this will be necessary to play with the fuel and speed definitions . Isn't a bi problem but needs research again (I don't recall exactly what is the correct velocity for each uboat, range , etc)
might it be possible to reduce the surfaced drag coeffecient to match the normal surfaced speed range stats?..i seem to remember there being an entry for surfaced drag somewhere?:hmm:
come to think of it if there is then this should help with the AI uboat speed problem. when attached to a convoy?
could this also be used to set the boat to decks awash ?
von hally
03-20-08, 11:31 AM
never even thought of that!!!!!
this just keeps getting better and better:up:
hope its possible and not too tricky for you mate
good luck:up:
Jimbuna
03-20-08, 11:59 AM
Very promising Rubini.....very promising http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9026/wolfthumbsuprw5.gif (http://imageshack.us)
Sailor Steve
03-20-08, 12:45 PM
Seems that the water "leak" from the lateral vents from all the uboat body. (Interesting is also how, in the RL pics, the uboats are much more "into the water" than we have on Sh3/GWX. This is another thing that annoys me.)
I will try to adjust all the water stream to start from the lateral vents...anyway in the end the final effect will be more or less how we have it now on Sh4, with some tweaks here and there.:up:
One thing to remember (and this applies to all WW2-era submarines) is that the outer hull is designed to cut through the water on the surface, and is independent of the inner, or 'pressure' hull. The outer hull is open to the sea, and the vent holes are all just that--holes. Water will fill the space between the inner and outer hulls, and went the boat rises the water will 'stream' from every hole that has been underwater.
Also, if you're going to play with the different parameters to change draft/speed/range, might you also look into acceleration? It has long been a problem that all ships in the game, including u-boats, accelerate far too quickly.
Gairith
03-20-08, 12:50 PM
"Take us home chief, we should make it back to port in time for this upgrade."
Seems that the water "leak" from the lateral vents from all the uboat body. (Interesting is also how, in the RL pics, the uboats are much more "into the water" than we have on Sh3/GWX. This is another thing that annoys me.)
I will try to adjust all the water stream to start from the lateral vents...anyway in the end the final effect will be more or less how we have it now on Sh4, with some tweaks here and there.:up:
One thing to remember (and this applies to all WW2-era submarines) is that the outer hull is designed to cut through the water on the surface, and is independent of the inner, or 'pressure' hull. The outer hull is open to the sea, and the vent holes are all just that--holes. Water will fill the space between the inner and outer hulls, and went the boat rises the water will 'stream' from every hole that has been underwater.
Also, if you're going to play with the different parameters to change draft/speed/range, might you also look into acceleration? It has long been a problem that all ships in the game, including u-boats, accelerate far too quickly.
Sailor Steve, yes, I have now 43!! water stream to play with and it's possible to add infinite numbers of them. So each singular hole can have it's own water strain in each uboat!. i guess that in the end this will be to much because the effect in game isn't exactly as in RL (mechanical/texture limitations) so i will play just with some of them (perhaps ten per side as an example) what is already enough as an very good eye candy effect. My last look at them in my dinner hour reveal a lot of possibilities. I'm just annoying that i need to go in a family trip by the holiday without my PC! OMG!:D
Now a reply also for CB..:
The best settings until now for the IXd2 as really draught=0 and go back to neutral buoyance (GWX introduced a positive buoyance what makes that "too above water" problem yet worst). The ubaot sail effect is much, much better and necessary to have water stream. And is always possible (in the.sim itself) to adjust the potency of the engines what I think will solve the too much quickly acceleration.
I will look at the surfaced drag , but i guess that it's for left-right/ up-down (just shake movements for first) and then it will not solve the final velocity problem adequately.:hmm:
Philipp_Thomsen
03-20-08, 03:00 PM
Seems that the water "leak" from the lateral vents from all the uboat body. (Interesting is also how, in the RL pics, the uboats are much more "into the water" than we have on Sh3/GWX. This is another thing that annoys me.)
I will try to adjust all the water stream to start from the lateral vents...anyway in the end the final effect will be more or less how we have it now on Sh4, with some tweaks here and there.:up:
One thing to remember (and this applies to all WW2-era submarines) is that the outer hull is designed to cut through the water on the surface, and is independent of the inner, or 'pressure' hull. The outer hull is open to the sea, and the vent holes are all just that--holes. Water will fill the space between the inner and outer hulls, and went the boat rises the water will 'stream' from every hole that has been underwater.
Also, if you're going to play with the different parameters to change draft/speed/range, might you also look into acceleration? It has long been a problem that all ships in the game, including u-boats, accelerate far too quickly.
Sailor Steve, yes, I have now 43!! water stream to play with and it's possible to add infinite numbers of them. So each singular hole can have it's own water strain in each uboat!. i guess that in the end this will be to much because the effect in game isn't exactly as in RL (mechanical/texture limitations) so i will play just with some of them (perhaps ten per side as an example) what is already enough as an very good eye candy effect. My last look at them in my dinner hour reveal a lot of possibilities. I'm just annoying that i need to go in a family trip by the holiday without my PC! OMG!:D
Now a reply also for CB..:
The best settings until now for the IXd2 as really draught=0 and go back to neutral buoyance (GWX introduced a positive buoyance what makes that "too above water" problem yet worst). The ubaot sail effect is much, much better and necessary to have water stream. And is always possible (in the.sim itself) to adjust the potency of the engines what I think will solve the too much quickly acceleration.
I will look at the surfaced drag , but i guess that it's for left-right/ up-down (just shake movements for first) and then it will not solve the final velocity problem adequately.:hmm:
The acceleration is the easiest thing to edit in the game, and the better part is that it doesnt change the final speed. I think the acceleration underwater is a little less unreal then the surfaced acceleration, but still both of them need adjustments. Those adjustments I've done for myself long time ago, but I see no point in making a mod out of it, nobody will use it.
Seems that the water "leak" from the lateral vents from all the uboat body. (Interesting is also how, in the RL pics, the uboats are much more "into the water" than we have on Sh3/GWX. This is another thing that annoys me.)
I will try to adjust all the water stream to start from the lateral vents...anyway in the end the final effect will be more or less how we have it now on Sh4, with some tweaks here and there.:up:
One thing to remember (and this applies to all WW2-era submarines) is that the outer hull is designed to cut through the water on the surface, and is independent of the inner, or 'pressure' hull. The outer hull is open to the sea, and the vent holes are all just that--holes. Water will fill the space between the inner and outer hulls, and went the boat rises the water will 'stream' from every hole that has been underwater.
Also, if you're going to play with the different parameters to change draft/speed/range, might you also look into acceleration? It has long been a problem that all ships in the game, including u-boats, accelerate far too quickly.
Sailor Steve, yes, I have now 43!! water stream to play with and it's possible to add infinite numbers of them. So each singular hole can have it's own water strain in each uboat!. i guess that in the end this will be to much because the effect in game isn't exactly as in RL (mechanical/texture limitations) so i will play just with some of them (perhaps ten per side as an example) what is already enough as an very good eye candy effect. My last look at them in my dinner hour reveal a lot of possibilities. I'm just annoying that i need to go in a family trip by the holiday without my PC! OMG!:D
Now a reply also for CB..:
The best settings until now for the IXd2 as really draught=0 and go back to neutral buoyance (GWX introduced a positive buoyance what makes that "too above water" problem yet worst). The ubaot sail effect is much, much better and necessary to have water stream. And is always possible (in the.sim itself) to adjust the potency of the engines what I think will solve the too much quickly acceleration.
I will look at the surfaced drag , but i guess that it's for left-right/ up-down (just shake movements for first) and then it will not solve the final velocity problem adequately.:hmm:
The acceleration is the easiest thing to edit in the game, and the better part is that it doesnt change the final speed. I think the acceleration underwater is a little less unreal then the surfaced acceleration, but still both of them need adjustments. Those adjustments I've done for myself long time ago, but I see no point in making a mod out of it, nobody will use it.
If these water stream really becomes very good i will then try to make others adjusts on the uboats, like draught, acceleration and also will add a self adjusted exaust mod (from RB). Then we will have a really good final uboat mod.;)
bert8for3
03-20-08, 03:41 PM
... The acceleration is the easiest thing to edit in the game, and the better part is that it doesnt change the final speed. I think the acceleration underwater is a little less unreal then the surfaced acceleration, but still both of them need adjustments. Those adjustments I've done for myself long time ago, but I see no point in making a mod out of it, nobody will use it.
[puts hand up] I would. Anything that goes to more/better realism. I've got neck whiplash from kicking my Type VII from 0-18 knots in 2 seconds flat.
Gairith
03-20-08, 06:22 PM
... The acceleration is the easiest thing to edit in the game, and the better part is that it doesnt change the final speed. I think the acceleration underwater is a little less unreal then the surfaced acceleration, but still both of them need adjustments. Those adjustments I've done for myself long time ago, but I see no point in making a mod out of it, nobody will use it.
[puts hand up] I would. Anything that goes to more/better realism. I've got neck whiplash from kicking my Type VII from 0-18 knots in 2 seconds flat.
Same here, would be willing to try it out.
Sailor Steve
03-20-08, 07:35 PM
... The acceleration is the easiest thing to edit in the game, and the better part is that it doesnt change the final speed. I think the acceleration underwater is a little less unreal then the surfaced acceleration, but still both of them need adjustments. Those adjustments I've done for myself long time ago, but I see no point in making a mod out of it, nobody will use it.
[puts hand up] I would. Anything that goes to more/better realism. I've got neck whiplash from kicking my Type VII from 0-18 knots in 2 seconds flat.
Same here, would be willing to try it out.
I didn't get back in time to be first, so I'll be third: Yes, I would definitely use it. I hate seeing the parked merchant in the Academy avoid a torpedo by accelerating away from it. Destroyers have better acceleration than anything except PT boats, but even they can't really stop and reverse in less than their own length.
Kpt. Lehmann
03-21-08, 10:33 AM
The best settings until now for the IXd2 as really draught=0 and go back to neutral buoyance (GWX introduced a positive buoyance what makes that "too above water" problem yet worst). The ubaot sail effect is much, much better and necessary to have water stream. And is always possible (in the.sim itself) to adjust the potency of the engines what I think will solve the too much quickly acceleration.
Rubini, the positive bouyancy from GWX 1.0 has been drastically reduced (by you mate) before the release of 2.0, and has nothing to do with the U-boat drafts when surfaced.
I've fixed it (The IXD2 draft) by simply pushing it down by one meter... and now the water line is correct/uniform with the rest of the U-boats in GWX. (I just hadn't noticed the IXD2 riding a little high until now... God only knows why.)
Returning to "true" neutral bouyancy as in stock SH3, will cause the U-boats to plow through the water like bricks again... with little or no interaction with hydrodynamic forces present on the surface. U-boats shouldn't behave like battleships on the surface, especially considering that they spend a majority of the time on the surface.
With the exception of the XXI, I've checked all player boat drafts.
Screenshots from last night's range testing I took while thinking about this thread: http://www.mediafire.com/?lw2wbpmdkej
Regarding drag settings, and engine power settings... changes to either will cause U-boat ranges to need complete overhaul/rework. Lengthy testing and proximity to release makes it prohibitive for us. Each would have to be adjusted individually... the same is true for all surface vessels in SH3.
Sailor Steve is right about the units in SH3 being able to accelerate/slow too quickly... but he's also talking about buckets of work.:huh: (Get to it Steve!)
EDIT: Changes to draft settings of player U-boats would also cause range settings to need reworking.
Plugging real life values into the .sim file for range vs knots is useless. It must be adjusted, then tested in game... then re-adjusted as necessary until correct in-game.
The best settings until now for the IXd2 as really draught=0 and go back to neutral buoyance (GWX introduced a positive buoyance what makes that "too above water" problem yet worst). The ubaot sail effect is much, much better and necessary to have water stream. And is always possible (in the.sim itself) to adjust the potency of the engines what I think will solve the too much quickly acceleration.
Rubini, the positive bouyancy from GWX 1.0 has been drastically reduced (by you mate) before the release of 2.0, and has nothing to do with the U-boat drafts when surfaced.
I've fixed it (The IXD2 draft) by simply pushing it down by one meter... and now the water line is correct/uniform with the rest of the U-boats in GWX. (I just hadn't noticed the IXD2 riding a little high until now... God only knows why.)
Returning to "true" neutral bouyancy as in stock SH3, will cause the U-boats to plow through the water like bricks again... with little or no interaction with hydrodynamic forces present on the surface. U-boats shouldn't behave like battleships on the surface, especially considering that they spend a majority of the time on the surface.
With the exception of the XXI, I've checked all player boat drafts.
Screenshots from last night's range testing I took while thinking about this thread: http://www.mediafire.com/?lw2wbpmdkej
Regarding drag settings, and engine power settings... changes to either will cause U-boat ranges to need complete overhaul/rework. Lengthy testing and proximity to release makes it prohibitive for us. Each would have to be adjusted individually... the same is true for all surface vessels in SH3.
Sailor Steve is right about the units in SH3 being able to accelerate/slow too quickly... but he's also talking about buckets of work.:huh: (Get to it Steve!)
EDIT: Changes to draft settings of player U-boats would also cause range settings to need reworking.
Plugging real life values into the .sim file for range vs knots is useless. It must be adjusted, then tested in game... then re-adjusted as necessary until correct in-game.
Hi Kpt,
I just returned from my holiday and I´m replying the posts slowing. (sorry for my english these days because I lost my Babylon licence, then I´m writing in the best way that I can). First of all, I just don´t presented this mod for GWX team at first because i just entered in it after we reach our time limit on GWX 2.1. About the uboat behaviour while surfaced...hummm...at least for my type IXd2 (GWX 1.03 yet) it really becomes better (in behaviour) after i replace again the neutral buoyance. I know that in GWX 2.1 we are touching the uboats fuel/distance/speed again...so it´s in my plains to contact you before mess with anything on this matter to I really have the best information possible before modify anything on this issue. And you are right, to really mess with acceleration for all units in the game...WOW...this needs to be a mod team effort at first. And to finish, saying again, wat i said at first is just my impressions using GWX 1.03 Type IXd2. Let´s see the final results in the next days.:up:
PS: i´m downloading the link above. Comments later!
Me again!:D
KL,
After saw yours pics in the link above, my first comment is that for calm seas I never saw problems too. In my posts i refer only to water line/behaviour when you are sailing with bad weather, winds more than 9m/s. Sometimes the uboats on stock sh3 (GWX and others mods included) seems that to be "flying". This is the behaviour that i don´t like and is is to much different from RL IMHO.
Sorry to not make this clear: the main problem isn´t with the water line on calm seas, but the sail behaviour on winds >9m/s. The uboat sometimes seems to be flying. In RL they are much more "into" the water all the time.:yep:
sh3rules
03-23-08, 10:06 PM
Great mod! So I take it that this mod will be compatible with 2.1?
Yes this is his first SH4 to SH3 mod, the next is to import the transparent water!:lol:
Kpt. Lehmann
03-24-08, 12:36 AM
Me again!:D
KL,
After saw yours pics in the link above, my first comment is that for calm seas I never saw problems too. In my posts i refer only to water line/behaviour when you are sailing with bad weather, winds more than 9m/s. Sometimes the uboats on stock sh3 (GWX and others mods included) seems that to be "flying". This is the behaviour that i don´t like and is is to much different from RL IMHO.
Sorry to not make this clear: the main problem isn´t with the water line on calm seas, but the sail behaviour on winds >9m/s. The uboat sometimes seems to be flying. In RL they are much more "into" the water all the time.:yep:
Understood, and you are partly correct.
We've done everything we can to limit the effect you speak of. (Though I think "flying" is a rather strong word to describe it.)
I'm sure it just boils down to personal taste pretty much. I just feel like the "bricks in the water" from stock SH3, is less appealing than improved interaction with surface hydrodynamics in GWX.
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