Merged: trouble brewing in kosovo...

[Steel_Tomb]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080317/tpl-uk-kosovo-serbia-43a8d4f.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7300015.stm

A sign of things to come?

[SUBMAN1]

NATO should pull out of Kosovo and let them deal with their internal issues. Its not like they are going to be a threat to their neighbors, which I consider to be one of the only excuses for NATO involvement in the first place. To have them deal with their own problems will heal a wound that cannot be healed any other way. To stay is to leave that wound permanantly open and viloence like this will be common place unless NATO leaves.

It will probably get ugly after the leave, but in time, get better again. Only time and a hands off approach can fix this.

Its kind of like Americas Civil war. You can't fix it any other way. Imagine if the English stepped in and stopped us from what needed to be done? The problem would never have been fixed, and there would still be violence today.

-S

[Steel_Tomb]

I don't think we should just abandon Kosovo, NATO and the UN has given their word to protect the fledgling nation from agression. If we were to leave the hardliners in Serbia would have a field day, think of the killing that would happen? For once, we can not blame the people of Kosovo, the Serbs started these attacks. We always lecture for using aggression when its not needed, why not now?

[SUBMAN1]

I don't think we should just abandon Kosovo, NATO and the UN has given their word to protect the fledgling nation from agression. If we were to leave the hardliners in Serbia would have a field day, think of the killing that would happen? For once, we can not blame the people of Kosovo, the Serbs started these attacks. We always lecture for using aggression when its not needed, why not now?Because it is not needed here at all. No one is building a bomb. No one defied their ceasefire orders. No one is blowing up the London bridge. This is an internal strife that cannot be fixed with NATO troops - ever.

And last I checked, the Albanians can handle themselves just fine against the Serbs. WHat needs to happen is to work themselves to a stalemate, and then eventual ceasefire. Then the stone throwing will stop. Or one must overtake the other, and again, it will stop. Until this happens, there will be no peace.

-S

[August]

So when is Elite leaving for Belgrade? :rock:

[Kapitan_Phillips]

*waits for elite_hunter*

[Steel_Tomb]

I don't think we should just abandon Kosovo, NATO and the UN has given their word to protect the fledgling nation from agression. If we were to leave the hardliners in Serbia would have a field day, think of the killing that would happen? For once, we can not blame the people of Kosovo, the Serbs started these attacks. We always lecture for using aggression when its not needed, why not now?Because it is not needed here at all. No one is building a bomb. No one defied their ceasefire orders. No one is blowing up the London bridge. This is an internal strife that cannot be fixed with NATO troops - ever.

And last I checked, the Albanians can handle themselves just fine against the Serbs. WHat needs to happen is to work themselves to a stalemate, and then eventual ceasefire. Then the stone throwing will stop. Or one must overtake the other, and again, it will stop. Until this happens, there will be no peace.

-S

With respect, how do you know there will be peace? We don't know what will happen, I fear there would be much bloodshed in the region if K-FOR pulled out of Kosovo. The troops there aren't to stop terrorists making bombs, or to seek out Islamic extremists, they are there as peacekeepers. Therefore they should stay and do there job, to keep the peace as best they can. I hope with dialouge and negotiations the ethnic differences can be settled without the use of force.

[SUBMAN1]

With respect, how do you know there will be peace?...There won't be till they fight it out, so now you know. It is something they simply must do. What is almost kind of funny is that NATO thinks they can do something about it.

-S

[Jimbuna]

With respect, how do you know there will be peace?...There won't be till they fight it out, so now you know. It is something they simply must do. What is almost kind of funny is that NATO thinks they can do something about it.

-S

This could fast become the European Iraq :nope:

[SUBMAN1]

This could fast become the European Iraq :nope:It already is.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

So when is Elite leaving for Belgrade? :rock:

at this rate very soon... :yep:

yes please, get out and dont come back, this is Serbia and Russias Problem, we will fix it.. ;)

[elite_hunter_sh3]

I don't think we should just abandon Kosovo, NATO and the UN has given their word to protect the fledgling nation from agression. If we were to leave the hardliners in Serbia would have a field day, think of the killing that would happen? For once, we can not blame the people of Kosovo, the Serbs started these attacks. We always lecture for using aggression when its not needed, why not now?
you obviously dont read your biased news these days :roll:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7300015.stm
It also coincides with the fourth anniversary of rioting in Mitrovica by Kosovo Albanians which drove some 4,000 people, mainly Serbs, from their homes, and left at least 19 people dead, according to UN figures.
open your eyes.... :shifty:

fyi this riot didnt kill any UN police .... only injured..

"The rioters who have used Molotov cocktails, grenades and possible automatic weapons fire have gravely violated the law," well thats a start..:lol:

[August]

this is Serbia and Russias Problem, we will fix it.. ;)

No it isn't and no you won't. Especially you...

[mrbeast]

I don't think we should just abandon Kosovo, NATO and the UN has given their word to protect the fledgling nation from agression. If we were to leave the hardliners in Serbia would have a field day, think of the killing that would happen? For once, we can not blame the people of Kosovo, the Serbs started these attacks. We always lecture for using aggression when its not needed, why not now?
you obviously dont read your biased news these days :roll:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7300015.stm
It also coincides with the fourth anniversary of rioting in Mitrovica by Kosovo Albanians which drove some 4,000 people, mainly Serbs, from their homes, and left at least 19 people dead, according to UN figures.
open your eyes.... :shifty:

fyi this riot didnt kill any UN police .... only injured..

"The rioters who have used Molotov cocktails, grenades and possible automatic weapons fire have gravely violated the law," well thats a start..:lol:

Elite have you ever heard what Ghandi said about 'an eye for an eye'?

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Riots, Death, Destruction, Miffed population.


I know where I'm going for my holidays next year!

[elite_hunter_sh3]

this is Serbia and Russias Problem, we will fix it.. ;)
No it isn't and no you won't. Especially you...
says the warmongering american who thinks hes fighting terrorists... :roll:

first of all you shouldnt even be contributing to this topic, speaking alone contradicts every single ideal you stand for (fighting terrorism , bla bla bla), what you dont know (or know but wont accept) is that albanians in kosovo ARE terrorists, proven connections to Al qaeda and mujahadeen and terrorists in chechnya.

second of all You arent contributing anything to your so called war on terror... all you are doing is securing your little sandbox oil fields in iraq, knowing well there was no real threat, the REAL threat is in afghanistan, kosovo, albania, syria, Iran, Pakistan etc.. I hope iraq teaches you a lesson, im dissapointed that vietnam didnt.....:shifty::-?

third of all you have no reason to be in Kosovo or the balkans for any matter at all, EXCEPT oil.. ( why am i not surprised :roll:), the only reason you support bombing the hell out of us because we are crazy terrorists who commit genocide bla bla bla (hint of sarcasm), is because you need a excuse to get caspian oil to europe (to undermine russian oil/gas sales) thats another reason why russia will get involved... they dont like competition...;)

go back to your tv, and keep voting for mccain PLEASE!!! :D:up:

[Kapitan_Phillips]

this is Serbia and Russias Problem, we will fix it.. ;)
No it isn't and no you won't. Especially you...
says the warmongering american who thinks hes fighting terrorists... :roll:

first of all you shouldnt even be contributing to this topic, speaking alone contradicts every single ideal you stand for (fighting terrorism , bla bla bla), what you dont know (or know but wont accept) is that albanians in kosovo ARE terrorists, proven connections to Al qaeda and mujahadeen and terrorists in chechnya.

Show me this proof.

second of all You arent contributing anything to your so called war on terror... all you are doing is securing your little sandbox oil fields in iraq, knowing well there was no real threat, the REAL threat is in afghanistan, kosovo, albania, syria, Iran, Pakistan etc.. I hope iraq teaches you a lesson, im dissapointed that vietnam didnt.....:shifty::-?

So taking down a middle eastern dictator, having a peace keeping presence in Afghanistan, and bumping up border security to stop terrorist strikes is not contributing? What's Serbia doing other than bitching and moaning amongst themselves?

third of all you have no reason to be in Kosovo or the balkans for any matter at all, EXCEPT oil.. ( why am i not surprised :roll:), the only reason you support bombing the hell out of us because we are crazy terrorists who commit genocide bla bla bla (hint of sarcasm), is because you need a excuse to get caspian oil to europe (to undermine russian oil/gas sales) thats another reason why russia will get involved... they dont like competition...;)

Of course, Russia will come running when little Kosovo gets bled dry. That's like assuming the big bad boy in school is going to come rescue you because you lent him your Charizard Pokemon card.

And as for warmongering, I dont think I've seen anyone with such ruthless intent for bloodshed as you. If you feel so strongly about liberating Serbia, go and do something about it, instead of sitting in your nice comfortable refuge in a country you detest.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

who said i detested Canada??? :roll:
i may not like certain aspects of it (regarding immigration, foreign policy, social

Proof? here you go:
http://www.intellnet.org/news/2001/09/18/6861-1.htm

http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/KLA-binladen.htm

By Jerry Seper THE WASHINGTON TIMES - May 4, 1999


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_26_18/ai_90041160/pg_2


http://www.byzantinesacredart.com/blog/2007/03/serbia-jihad.html


http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/005499.php


http://news.serbianunity.net/2007/03/21/1886/


http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/1962


:roll::roll:

[elite_hunter_sh3]

a "dicatator" that was no threat to america or any of its allies... some americans use " to secure oil to keep prices down" as an excuse... well looking at the last 5 years prices have gone rediculously up...

Border Security???:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rot fl::rotfl::rotfl:
Have you looked at your own borders recently??? you can get a small army through there (with tanks! :o) :lol: and i will do something about very soon... ill give you another bread crumb... matter of weeks ;)

[Kapitan_Phillips]

a "dicatator" that was no threat to america or any of its allies... some americans use " to secure oil to keep prices down" as an excuse... well looking at the last 5 years prices have gone rediculously up...

Border Security???:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rot fl::rotfl::rotfl:
Have you looked at your own borders recently??? you can get a small army through there (with tanks! :o) :lol: and i will do something about very soon... ill give you another bread crumb... matter of weeks ;)

lol, if I remember correctly, most migrants here are Eastern Europeans. We're giving what Canada gave to you. A place to go. You'd soon change your tune if you were still in the middle of it, trust me.

[Brag]

Why argue? Kosovo, as drawn, is simply a non-viable state.

[Skybird]

Balkans - another place where illusory western policies have completely screwed up things. I just wished we could built a wall around the whole place and forget about it. Never something good for europe will come from there, never - always just troubles and problems and risks.

Europe needs the Balkans as much as I need an inflamed caecum.

[AntEater]

Strange thing:
On one part of the globe, one ethnic group demonstrates against forced and ethnical displacement rule by another ethnic group and gets beaten down = the world press is shocked
Tibet

On the other part of the globe, another ethnic group demonstrates against the same issues and gets beaten down = The world press applauds the police actions
Kosovo

Only the albanians don't even have to do their own dirty work, like the Chinese. They have us to do what they can't.
:damn:

[August]

go back to your tv, and keep voting for mccain PLEASE!!! :D:up:
Says the spoiled rich kid living in a safe western country who talks about what he will do but never backs up his big words with action. :up:

[Jimbuna]

Balkans - another place where illusory western policies have completely screwed up things. I just wished we could built a wall around the whole place and forget about it. Never something good for europe will come from there, never - always just troubles and problems and risks.

Europe needs the Balkans as much as I need an inflamed caecum.

Agreed http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[joea]

This thread is typical, semi-racist (and ultra extremist racist crap) which has given me less desire to visit the forum at the present time.

@Elite: I know a few Albanians and Kosovarans. A fellow from Tirana who is smart, hard-working and with a good head on his shoulders. I also know a very sweet young lady, pretty and also smart. Also, there was a handyman at the student res I lived in several years ago who was from Pristina, a widower with 5 kids who was kicked out of Switzerland even though he was competent at his job and had been living here apart from his children. He asked me to help him get a visa for Canada but I could not help as he was not a relative. He ended up going back, he was telling me how the KLA mafia controls everything and he had to pay them to get out in the beginning (so they are also victims of their mafia). So stop your racist BS.:down:

@The rest of you, you seem to be using Elite's behavior to label all Serbs with the same brush, and don't deny it the language I've seen here is very offensive. Two of my closest friends here Serbian, and the bishop in Canada who baptized my niece and godchild (half Greek and Hungarian and 100% American) as well. In fact, one of my GWX crew-mates, Poorsailor is Serbian as well. He seems like a decent person and has done his share on the crew but I have not seen him around much lately and I don't blame him.:down:

[August]

Three of Serbias neighbors recognize Kosovo independance.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7304488.stm

[Steel_Tomb]

Thats quite major news, Serbia will be a bit pissed that a lot of its neighbouring states openly recognise Kosovo.Hopefully more states will follow. I'm surprised Cyprus hasn't recognised Kosovo's independence. Especially after the grave injustice they suffered after the Turkish invasion and occupation of half the island, something I feel strongly about as I used to live in Cyprus :nope:.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

What Happened to Kosovo Serbs Kidnapped by KLA?

http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/images/serbia/missing-loved-ones.jpg

Quote:
The much discussed Carla del Ponte's book "The Hunt" offers a harrowing detail (http://www.glas-javnosti.co.yu/clanak/glas-javnosti-14-03-2008/glas-mu-je-podrhtavao-od-besa), revealing why have Serbian men been kidnapped throughout Kosovo province during past years instead of being killed on the spot, as is the usual KLA treatment for all non-Albanians, especially those of Serbian ethnicity: because they were used as a livestock for organ harvesting in the illegal trade with human organ transplants.

According to Glas Javnosti, writing about one of the failed investigations regarding the fate of around 300 abducted Kosovo Serbs who were taken to northern Albania, Del Ponte says that the kidnapped young men were not beaten and were well fed. There was an improvised surgery room in one of the houses, where young Serbs had their internal organs removed to be shipped over the Tirana airport "Mother Teresa" abroad, where the organs of the healthy young Serbs were sold.

The victims who had only one kidney removed during the first carve-up were sutured and returned to imprisonment, to live until they would get killed for their other vital organs, when the right buyer is found. According to Carla del Ponte, the Serbs held in this monstrous human stable Josef Mengele would envy, begged to be killed.
http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/2...ing-truth.html (http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/2008/03/harrowing-truth.html)


Quote:
Die griechische Staatsanwaltschaft hat Ermittlungen im Zusammenhang mit illegalen Organtransplantationen aufgenommen. Die Spuren der verdächtigten Bande führten nach Albanien, Griechenland und Italien, teilte die Behörde mit.

Illegale Organtransplantationen sind ein wachsendes Problem auch in Europa.
http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/meldung237872.html

my reaction to this would get me banned "due to language etc..." so yea...:nope::nope::nope::shifty:

[joea]

I'm surprised Cyprus hasn't recognised Kosovo's independence. Especially after the grave injustice they suffered after the Turkish invasion and occupation of half the island, something I feel strongly about as I used to live in Cyprus :nope:.

Why would they? That gives a precedent for the Turkish Cypriots to have their independence, I'm surprised you can't see it!

[elite_hunter_sh3]

a "dicatator" that was no threat to america or any of its allies... some americans use " to secure oil to keep prices down" as an excuse... well looking at the last 5 years prices have gone rediculously up...

Border Security???:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rot fl::rotfl::rotfl:
Have you looked at your own borders recently??? you can get a small army through there (with tanks! :o) :lol: and i will do something about very soon... ill give you another bread crumb... matter of weeks ;)
lol, if I remember correctly, most migrants here are Eastern Europeans. We're giving what Canada gave to you. A place to go. You'd soon change your tune if you were still in the middle of it, trust me.

i will definetly be in the middle of it ;)

[Steel_Tomb]

I'm surprised Cyprus hasn't recognised Kosovo's independence. Especially after the grave injustice they suffered after the Turkish invasion and occupation of half the island, something I feel strongly about as I used to live in Cyprus :nope:.

Why would they? That gives a precedent for the Turkish Cypriots to have their independence, I'm surprised you can't see it!

I was actually thinking of the cypriot part of the island asking for the rest of their country back! The Turks don't own it, its like France invading Germany and saying "We'll just have this chunk of your country if you dont mind" UN: "Sure, no problem, we won't stop you!" f**king cowards.

[Steel_Tomb]

And how many Albanians were killed by the Serbs over the years... 6 of one and half dozen of the other mate... :nope: I don't agree with any of the terrorist organizations, but both sides asked for conflict. The other was just wasn't mature enough not to return the favor.

[Skybird]

It's something that happens not only on the Balkans, but in Asia and Africa as well, sometimes "voluntarily", sometimes not. I recall to have read Brazil seeing this problem, too.

Symptoms of a place that has seen too much brutality and "dehumanisation". Being exposed to brutal perceptions days and years long, brutalizes man's psyche and deadens his consiousness.

Not forgetting thousands and tens of thousands of open bills in that area.

[Yahoshua]

Seems Bush has decided that it would be a good idea to flood Kosovo with military arms.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080319/pl_afp/uskosovodefensearmsrussiaserbia

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k84/yahoshua/CommonSense.jpg

[Dmitry Markov]

:damn: I think that's because Bush doesn't want NATO to look as occupants in eyes of world's public oppinion. Next step would be a withdrawal of NATO troops , or maybe this would be not a complete withdrawal - they would just stand and watch albanians killing serbs with american arms and prevent any help from Srbija or Russia.

This days I read a lot of literature on WWI and on how it started and on what were the people of that days (what were their ways of thinking). Guys, it's so resembling...

[Konovalov]

It's something that happens not only on the Balkans, but in Asia and Africa as well, sometimes "voluntarily", sometimes not. I recall to have read Brazil seeing this problem, too.

Symptoms of a place that has seen too much brutality and "dehumanisation". Being exposed to brutal perceptions days and years long, brutalizes man's psyche and deadens his consiousness.

Not forgetting thousands and tens of thousands of open bills in that area.

How true. :yep:

Groups on all sides over the last couple of decades have committed the most despicable and inhumane acts.

[Takeda Shingen]

Merged. Let's try to keep the Kosovo fist fight all in one place.

The Management

[sonar732]

It's so funny how they used the Ahtisaari plan as justification?

In fact, as of 20 July 2007, the Ahtisaari plan has been placed on the backburner since the Russians won't accept it.

How can the EU and USA use this when the Security Council hasn't voted on it?

Here's a snippet from June 2007 on Reuters (http://www.alertnet.org/db/blogs/1265/2007/05/4-160146-1.htm)...

It was a mistake on the part of the European Union to think Kosovo could be resolved within a year and Russia's and Serbia's opposition broken. But some parts of the EU may have "got carried away" with the opportunity that Kosovo presented to give new meaning to EU common foreign policy, the Economist says. Instead, the Economist concludes, "the EU is stumbling headlong into yet another Balkan crisis."

The international community is heading down the wrong road with Kosovo with hypocrosy. The same nations within the EU who didn't support our invasion of Iraq and how we manipulated the UN to accomplish such, are supporting sidestepping the Ahtisaari Plan and recognizing Kosovo independance.

How are we sidestepping? Well, the main part of the plan was that the Security Council had to agree. With Russia not backing down from the one sided plan, made it worthless to even vote on the matter.

The international community should've held off on recognizing Kosovo until the plan was agreed with a vote in the Security Council. Someone in another thread made a comment about my "black and white" stance. Well...I'm a firm believer in standing for what you believe in and there not being a "gray" area. You can't say "well...this situation is different because of..." No...the rules of the game still apply.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

Danger will robinson Danger S**t hitting fan S**t Hitting fan :lol: :-?

[August]

Danger will robinson Danger S**t hitting fan S**t Hitting fan :lol: :-?

So how come you aren't in Belgrade yet you poser?

[elite_hunter_sh3]

again with the immature name calling.... :roll::roll:

in the next 7-10 days.... i cant get a plane ticket on the spot you know... plus i have to contact family back home and arrange a pick up from the airport, gotta call the government and find out recruiting centers, make sure my passport isnt expired etc.. all that administrative crap everyone has to deal with when they travel...:damn:

[Jimbuna]

again with the immature name calling.... :roll::roll:

in the next 7-10 days.... i cant get a plane ticket on the spot you know... plus i have to contact family back home and arrange a pick up from the airport, gotta call the government and find out recruiting centers, make sure my passport isnt expired etc.. all that administrative crap everyone has to deal with when they travel...:damn:

Are you being serious here ? :hmm:

[Konovalov]

again with the immature name calling.... :roll::roll:

in the next 7-10 days.... i cant get a plane ticket on the spot you know... plus i have to contact family back home and arrange a pick up from the airport, gotta call the government and find out recruiting centers, make sure my passport isnt expired etc.. all that administrative crap everyone has to deal with when they travel...:damn:

Excuse me while I sneeze. Bulls*#t.

Why don't you quit with this rubbish because I for one am sick and tired of it. :zzz:

[Zachstar]

again with the immature name calling.... :roll::roll:

in the next 7-10 days.... i cant get a plane ticket on the spot you know... plus i have to contact family back home and arrange a pick up from the airport, gotta call the government and find out recruiting centers, make sure my passport isnt expired etc.. all that administrative crap everyone has to deal with when they travel...:damn:

You really take us to be that stupid? You are silly in my view LOL!

What kind of recruiting center are you going to visit? A counterstrike server?

You are so full of bs in my view it is laughable.

[Steel_Tomb]

Lol, not that you can go to the airport and buy tickets on the spot or anything? Fair enough about being picked up, but thats just a phone call. Doesnt take over a week to go somewhere, only a few hours actually!

[Takeda Shingen]

I think that we've had enough.

The Management