[WIP]Operation Monsun

[lurker_hlb3]

obe

[Ducimus]

>>Also will it be compatible with TM / RFB? Yes

Thats good news. If your all up on the campaign, i can work on other things. Truth be told i loath getting into MIS layers again. Its not that i dont know what im doing with them, i just hate doing them. Tedious and time consuming. I tip my hat to your enourmous amount of patience which i lack.

[Fish40]

Thank you Lurker!:up: This is great news.

[lurker_hlb3]

>>Also will it be compatible with TM / RFB? Yes

Thats good news. If your all up on the campaign, i can work on other things. Truth be told i loath getting into MIS layers again. Its not that i dont know what im doing with them, i just hate doing them. Tedious and time consuming. I tip my hat to your enourmous amount of patience which i lack.


No problem. I like doing this kind of thing

[Ducimus]

Id rather be in a dat, sim, zon, or sensor file somewhere. :lol:

[LukeFF]

Excellent!

[Paajtor]

http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/Drool.gif

[M. Sarsfield]

So many juicy mods to play with. I need to get my hands on the add-on. :p

[Hitman]

Best news we could hope for!! :D :D :D

Lurker, you deserve a medal of special recognition for your efforts! The subsimmers community will be forever in debt with you, sir! :rock:

[CDR Resser]

Cool. Lurker unleashed on the Monsun campaign. Can hardly wait.

Respectfully Submitted;
CDR Resser

[CCIP]

Awesome news! I've decided to dive in and do a few careers in RSRDC and I can't say enough about how good it is. As I always said, the German campaign likewise has great potential, in the right hands...

Are you by any chance thinking of working on getting any of the "strategic features" adapted in some form into RSRDC by any chance?

[nautilus42]

Good news, but please clean up your names.cfg from unnecceserys entries first.

[eatmafish]

look forward to it. thanks. :rock:

[lurker_hlb3]

Good news, but please clean up your names.cfg from unnecceserys entries first.


And what does this suppose this mean?

[nautilus42]

Good news, but please clean up your names.cfg from unnecceserys entries first.


And what does this suppose this mean?

In your last Release RSRDC_V355_for_V15 I found i.e. this Entries in the Names.cfg:

wrong entry: KyushuQ1W1=Kyushu Q1W1 correct Entry =Q1W1=Kyushu Q1W1


FBBeaufighter=Beaufighter Fighter Bomber
FBMosquito=Mosquito Fighter Bomber
FBMosquitoTsetse=Mosquito-Tsetse Fighter Bomber
SSunderland=Sunderland Patrol Plane
TBAvenger=Avenger Torpedo Bomber

DDNClass=N Class Destroyer
DDWmod=Admiralty Mod. Destroyer
CLBellona=Bellona Light Cruiser
CVIllustrious=Illustrious Fleet Carrier=
CVImplacable=Implacable Fleet Carrier
DDCClass=C Class Destroyer
DDCodrington=Codrington Class Destroyer
DDLClass=L Class Destroyer
DDMClass=M Class Destroyer
DDQClass=Q Class Destroyer
DDSClass=S Class Destroyer

but there arent any Units in the Data/Sea-Folder or Air-Folder, that`s makes me a little confused. I always searching for this Units but I can`t find them: therefore I think these are unnecceseries Entries! You understand what I mean?:up:

[AVGWarhawk]

http://www.61shap.com/pilots/Paajtor/Drool.gif


I could not have drooled it better myself:up:

[lurker_hlb3]

Good news, but please clean up your names.cfg from unnecceserys entries first.

And what does this suppose this mean?
In your last Release RSRDC_V355_for_V15 I found i.e. this Entries in the Names.cfg:

wrong entry: KyushuQ1W1=Kyushu Q1W1 correct Entry =Q1W1=Kyushu Q1W1


FBBeaufighter=Beaufighter Fighter Bomber
FBMosquito=Mosquito Fighter Bomber
FBMosquitoTsetse=Mosquito-Tsetse Fighter Bomber
SSunderland=Sunderland Patrol Plane
TBAvenger=Avenger Torpedo Bomber

DDNClass=N Class Destroyer
DDWmod=Admiralty Mod. Destroyer
CLBellona=Bellona Light Cruiser
CVIllustrious=Illustrious Fleet Carrier=
CVImplacable=Implacable Fleet Carrier
DDCClass=C Class Destroyer
DDCodrington=Codrington Class Destroyer
DDLClass=L Class Destroyer
DDMClass=M Class Destroyer
DDQClass=Q Class Destroyer
DDSClass=S Class Destroyer

but there arent any Units in the Data/Sea-Folder or Air-Folder, that`s makes me a little confused. I always searching for this Units but I can`t find them: therefore I think these are unnecceseries Entries! You understand what I mean?:up:

Since this thread has "nothing to do" with RSRDC, why are you posting this here ?

Also I went over this with you once before.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=716641&postcount=437

As I stated then and will state now these entries have "no effect" no game play. If you don't like them, you can remove them from your download without an negative effects

[rascal101]

Hi to you and god speed with your project, SH4 and the new mod deserves to be taken seriously.

I wonder if you have heared of a brilliant book that describes the exploits of U862 under Kapitanleutnant Heinrich Timm, the book is called U-Boat Far From Home by David Stevens ISBN 1864482672 published by Allen & Unwin

The book is very interesting as its based on the U862 which is the only boat to make it as far as the east coast of New Zealand and therefore the only Monsun boat to achieve anything significant.

Apart from a really interesting accounts of just how unlikely a Monsun boat was to actually make it to the far east, the book aslo contains invaluable tables and charts and notes covering the departure, arrival, attacks and sinking or survival of around 69 Ubots who made, or tried to make the journey

I hope this information might be of interest

Operation Monsun





This mode will be a “MAJOR” overhaul to the German Campaign in the same style of RSRDC. The sources are as follows:

C-in-C German Navy 2. Sk1./B.d.U. Op. Nr. Ckdos. 3495 A1
10.June 1943.


Operational Order "Monsoon"


http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUKTB30326.htm

================================================== =============
Monsun boats

U-boats in the Indian Ocean and the Far East



by Marcin Jedrzejewski



http://www.uboat.net/ops/monsun.htm

================================================== =============

http://ubootwaffe.net/index.html

================================================== =============

Convoy Map

http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUKTB30326ChartK.htm

================================================== =============

Currently about 75% complete and will release it when it is ready. Also will it be compatible with TM / RFB? Yes

[Fish40]

And here's something which was provided by one of the guys from the UBI forums to watch in the mean time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuBMk0wzmt8&feature=related

[JScones]

Nice.

Have you seen the Monsun addition in GWX? I researched that extensively over a three month period, if not longer. It adds pretty much all British Eastern Fleet movements, USN/RAN TF.74, Operations Jaywick and Rimau, Japanese Reconnaissance of Australia (the little known Japanese "invasion" of WA), The Destruction of the Brake and the Charlotte Schliemann, Operation Diplomat, Operation Cockpit, Operation Crimson, Australian minesweeping and ASW operations, Operation Interlude, Operation King II, Operations Lightning and Matador, Operations Meridian I and Meridian II and, of course, the hunt for U862. All additions are based on actual RAN/RAAF data with the only variance in SH3 implementation being related to model availability (or lack thereof). BBW did a *brilliant* job translating all this data into the mis files.

Anyway, when I researched the theatre I relied on numerous non-online sources.

For the German POV, I relied a lot on "Hitler's Grey Wolves: U-boats in the Indian Ocean". It paints a good picture on the theatre including photos, mainly of Penang but also covers Singapore, Kobe and the DEI bases.

For the Allied POV, I relied extensively on both the offical RAN and official RAAF histories - no other references come close in detailing Allied involvement in the Indian Ocean. Plus I had access to a number of RAN historians who answered some of the more curly questions for me.

I might still have all my research notes, which include actual allied convoy routes and copies of official documents that dictate very specific convoy rules - ie size, speed, escort composition, dates etc etc.

Whilst a lot of my research is captured in GWX, a lot isn't. What GWX doesn't capture are the correct convoy routes and convoy rules (ie those mentioned above). I found those around the time I left the GWX team, and whilst I sent them on to the team, I don't think they've ever been incorporated.

So...I have no problem providing you all my research notes if a) you want them and b) I can find them. You can then do with them what you want.

Might just save you some time reinventing the wheel. ;)

[JScones]

To explain what I mean by documents detailing rules, here's a snippet of some of the stuff I have - this covers the Australian coastal convoy system.
On 4th June [1942] the Naval Board suspended merchant ship sailings from all ports between Adelaide and Brisbane, excepting Adelaide-Melbourne and Melbourne-Tasmania traffic. Coastal convoys were instituted on 8th June with the sailing of convoy "CO.1" (Newcastle-Melbourne) of nine ships escorted by H.M.A. Ships Arunta and Kalgoorlie, and convoy "GP.1" (Sydney-Brisbane) of five ships escorted by U .S .S . Selfridge' and H.M.A.S. Rockhampton. In brief, the convoy system then instituted was as follows. On the main coastal routes ships of over 1,200 tons and less than 12 knots were sailed in convoys "CO" (Newcastle-Melbourne) and "OC" (Melbourne-Newcastle); "PG" (Brisbane-Sydney) and "GP" (Sydney-Brisbane). With the exception of "OC" convoys, all had a minimum of two anti-submarine escorts, and anti-submarine air cover was provided*. Ships of less than 1,200 tons sailed independently on inshore routes, and ships faster than 12 knots also sailed independently. All ships sailing independently were instructed to zigzag when within 200 miles of the coast except when navigating inside the Barrier Reef. Ships of less than 12 knots east-bound trans-Tasman from Sydney were escorted in convoy for 200 miles from the New South Wales coast; those over 12 knots sailed independently. Ships under 12 knots east-bound trans-Tasman from Melbourne proceeded in "OC" convoys until north of latitude 36 degrees 30 minutes south, thence on independent routes; those of over 12 knots sailed independently west and south of Tasmania.

*Initial escort vessels allocated were: Melbourne—HMAS Moresby; Sydney—HMA Ships Bingera, Doomba, Rockhampton, Yandra, Whyalla, Kybra, Arunta, Kalgoorlie, and HMIS Bombay; Brisbane—two destroyers nominated by C.T .F. 44. There were other convoy designations, i.e.: "LQ" Brisbane-Gladstone; "S QL" Gladstone - Brisbane; "TD" Thursday Island-Darwin; "DT " Darwin-Thursday Island; BV" Brisbane - Townsville; "VB" Townsville-Brisbane; "TN" Townsville-New Guinea; "NT" New Guinea - Townsville. The foregoing list does not include various short-term coastal series. During 1942 a total of 1,672 ships were included in 252 convoys, these being as follows with numbers of convoys and ships respectively following convoy designations: "OC " convoys, 57-533; "CO" convoys, 58-605; "GP" convoys, 29-152; "PG" convoys, 29-99; Queensland coastal, 38-116; mainland-New Guinea, 41-167.

And further:
Admiral Royle, at the Advisory War Council meeting of 9th February [1943], said that if the submarine position on the Australian coast became acute, the number of surface escorts per convoy would have to be increased by decreasing the number of convoys. This was now done, and on 13th May he told the Council that, following representations by the Shipping Control Board and the Department of Commerce, it had been decided to revert to double convoys, each of which would be provided with four escort vessels, "the maximum protection that could be provided with present resources".
I should stress that prior to this date convoys were quite lightly protected for a number of obvious reasons.

Escorted convoys in the Persian region were instituted in Sep 1942 and in the sub-continental region in Sep 1943, after the Allies learnt of the U-boat incursion. Although...Admiral Somerville thereupon discontinued convoys from 12th December [1943], with the exception of Bombay-Colombo and Colombo-Calcutta sailings.
It's interesting to read the Allied side of the Monsun operation - the data gathering/intelligence and response, of which the above is merely a short snippet.

This is all prolly way too much detail for what you had in mind, but it's an indication of how far you can go...and this doesn't even scratch the surface.

[lurker_hlb3]

Nice.

Have you seen the Monsun addition in GWX? I researched that extensively over a three month period, if not longer. It adds pretty much all British Eastern Fleet movements, USN/RAN TF.74, Operations Jaywick and Rimau, Japanese Reconnaissance of Australia (the little known Japanese "invasion" of WA), The Destruction of the Brake and the Charlotte Schliemann, Operation Diplomat, Operation Cockpit, Operation Crimson, Australian minesweeping and ASW operations, Operation Interlude, Operation King II, Operations Lightning and Matador, Operations Meridian I and Meridian II and, of course, the hunt for U862. All additions are based on actual RAN/RAAF data with the only variance in SH3 implementation being related to model availability (or lack thereof). BBW did a *brilliant* job translating all this data into the mis files.





I'm well aware of GWX, but have no plans to use their files.

[LukeFF]

I'm well aware of GWX, but have no plans to use their files.
:damn:

He's not talking about using the GWX files but rather using JScones's notes, which to me sound like they are a very valuable source.

[JScones]

I'm well aware of GWX, but have no plans to use their files.
:damn:

He's not talking about using the GWX files but rather using JScones's notes, which to me sound like they are a very valuable source.
Correct - in case it's unclear to anyone I was certainly not suggesting using any existing files from any mod - my reference to GWX was simply to highlight an example of where the research was implemented.

[lurker_hlb3]

Operation Monsun
(partial readme)




“Operation Monsun” (OM) will present a semi-historical recreation of the deployment of German U-Boats to the Far East. The approach used to create this mod is along the same lines as RSRDC, give the SH4 users as close to historical immersion as can be made within the limits of Silent Hunter 4. To accomplish this goal a major rewrite to all files related to the U-Boat Campaign was accomplished, and provides the following:

-Initial deployment of U-boats from Lorient, France, 15 July 43 to 30 Sept 43, in which you must transit to the Indian Ocean, conduct a combat patrol in one of the same areas used by units enroute to Penang.
-From 1 Oct 43 to 30 Aug 44, you will operate out of Penang, Malaysia, conducting combat operations traditional OpAreas of the Northern/Western IO.
-After the decision to move the U-Boat home base from Penang, operations will be conducted from Batavia starting on 1 Sept 44 through the remainder of the war.

When starting up a U-Boat campaign, you’re going to notice the following

-There are no “upgrades” any kind. Why? There were no “upgrades” for any of the real U-Boats that deployed to the IO.
-You will not see any “fantasy” Type XVIII U-Boats.
-You will not see any “fantasy” special operations missions.
-You will not see any “fantasy” IJN Task Force operations in the IO.
-You will see that your Type IXD2 is provided with FuMO 61 Radar and FuMB 1 ESM equipment. This is not 100% historical, but to provide the player with a better game play experience. You will also only have G7A and G7E torpedoes to use also.
-You will get the uses of the Fw200’s of III/KG40 and the JU290’s of 1./FAGr. 5 to “scout” the way across the Bay of Biscay when you leave Lorient. You also get to use the two Ar196’s from the base at Penang. These Ar196’s are from German Commerce Raider that deployed to the IO early in the war. You will also get to use IJN air assets that are based in Batavia.
-You will see semi-historical convoy and single merchant shipping routes.
-You get “dogged” by RAF Coastal Command search aircraft as you attempt to cross the “Bay of Biscay. You’re going to have to worry about all the “real world” Coastal Command bases that are in the IO.
-You will not see an “arcade shooting gallery” when you go on patrol. What you’re going to have to use is the “real intelligence” briefings and maps that will be provided with OM to find the targets. ( see first post )
-Your going to see the Eastern/British Fleet return to the IO in early 1944 and start conducting operations in your area, i.e. Operation COCKPIT, TRANSOM, CRIMSON, MILLET, Outflank, LENTIL, Meridian I/II just to name a few.




================================================== =====







This mod will be released after beta testing

[Ducimus]

Damn lurker, that is sounding like one helluva good job! :up:

[linerkiller]

Sounds VERY good...Also the fantasy 1944 Hilfskreuzern will need an complete elimination

[lurker_hlb3]

Sounds VERY good...Also the fantasy 1944 Hilfskreuzern will need an complete elimination

They have already been removed

[JScones]

Looks good. :up:

I finally tracked down my copy of the WWII main convoy routes map. It includes both Allied and known Axis (Japanese) shipping routes in both the Indian and Pacific oceans. Let me know if you still wish a copy. It comes from a book detailing the history of the five RAAF "Submarine Hunter" Squadrons. A great reference on the SE Asian submarine war (both German and Japanese) from the Allied perspective with brilliant piccies, even a few from the bridge of I-29 as it launches an E14Y1.

I'll include a log of actual convoy movements including convoy names, dates, places and composition...if I can find where I put it. :hmm:

Anyway... at the risk of being pedantic, Malaysia didn't exist until 1963. ;) And is it possible to change the names of Singapore, Batavia and Soerabaja to their Axis names of Syonan-to, Jakarta and Surabaya when occupied? This would make it more authentic.

You’re going to have to worry about all the “real world” Coastal Command bases that are in the IO.
At the risk of spoiling there shouldn't be much to worry about really.

No RAF down Australia way (apart from a squadron of Spits in Darwin that were allocated other tasks). Very stretched RAAF resources meaning 4 hour patrol rotations during daylight of usually one or two Ansons or Hudsons. Alternating with the occassional Cat and 'Fisher over on the east due to the seaplane bases at Rathmines (training) and up Bowen way. But certainly nothing as ferocious as Biscay come 1943. Heck, even our Cats still had WWI guns in the bubbles!

Over Africa way you had a training Squadron in Rhodesia and, IIRC, two "Home Defence" Squadrons in South Africa.

But this is beside the point, as it is what you've done sounds like a great improvement to the game. :up: :rock:

[tearsofwrath]

Dear lurker_hlb3,

thank you for all the great work you put into your modfile. it makes the game so much better. realistic campaigns, missions and shipping routes and so much more. thank you so much for it. if you manage to make half a good monsoon campaign in your newest product, people have a choice between two great options they can play. dont let anyone get to you with moronic comments. the majority knows and appreciates what you do!

thx again!

[lurker_hlb3]

You’re going to have to worry about all the “real world” Coastal Command bases that are in the IO.

here is my refereance for Coastal Command.

http://www.rafcommands.com/Coastal/indexC.html

each link gives A/C type, dates and location


Down in your part of the world, have No 14 Sqd near Perth and No 11 & 15 Sqd on the east coastal that where active during the delopment of U862 in late 44 / early 45

[Paajtor]

looks great sofar...really looking forward to it!:up:

[Rockin Robbins]

Just reading your first point was enough. I feel like a kid marking off days on the calendar two months before Christmas. This will be unbelievably good! We're going to replace the faux Caribbean Vacation stock game (which is incredibly fun to play) with the grimness of being ordered to take your U-Boat through a gauntlet of dangerous water to a place at the edge of the earth, where you will receive no upgrades and may very well fall off!

The present stock scenario treats the Indian Ocean as a plum assignment. Reality will be just a bit different!:up:

This is going to be a LOT better than I thought...:yep:

[DrBeast]

Lurker's description of his WIP is enough to make me cave and buy the damn add-on... :yep:

[rrmelend]

Sounds awesome, I can't wait to give it a try when it's finished. Thanks for all your hard work.:rock:

[JScones]

You’re going to have to worry about all the “real world” Coastal Command bases that are in the IO.

here is my refereance for Coastal Command.

http://www.rafcommands.com/Coastal/indexC.html

each link gives A/C type, dates and location


Down in your part of the world, have No 14 Sqd near Perth and No 11 & 15 Sqd on the east coastal that where active during the delopment of U862 in late 44 / early 45
No, you misunderstand. The 11, 14 and 15 Squadrons you quote were RAAF Squadrons, not RAF Coastal Command Squadrons. It may seem petty or insignificant to anyone outside of Australia, but that extra A makes a world of difference here!

So, my first point, viz "No RAF down Australia way..." was to emphasise that there were no RAF Coastal Command Squadrons stationed in Australia, as your post implies. So if your mod has British planes buzzing about, it's not right. They should be Australian.

Further, the RAAF were so stretched that, just as one example, from mid-1944, 14 Squadron RAAF was solely responsible for anti-submarine operations for the whole western area. So it's no surprise then that during it's existence it did not sight the enemy once.

Just mustering the 18 planes that went searching for U-862 in late December 1944 was an achievement of coordination between 4 or 5 different RAAF Squadrons.

So my second point was that if players are constantly buzzed by planes like they are in Biscay, it's not right.

Just food for thought. What you've created so far still looks great and a more than welcome addition. :up:

[lurker_hlb3]

You’re going to have to worry about all the “real world” Coastal Command bases that are in the IO.

here is my refereance for Coastal Command.

http://www.rafcommands.com/Coastal/indexC.html

each link gives A/C type, dates and location


Down in your part of the world, have No 14 Sqd near Perth and No 11 & 15 Sqd on the east coastal that where active during the delopment of U862 in late 44 / early 45 No, you misunderstand. The 11, 14 and 15 Squadrons you quote were RAAF Squadrons, not RAF Coastal Command Squadrons. It may seem petty or insignificant to anyone outside of Australia, but that extra A makes a world of difference here!

So, my first point, viz "No RAF down Australia way..." was to emphasise that there were no RAF Coastal Command Squadrons stationed in Australia, as your post implies. So if your mod has British planes buzzing about, it's not right. They should be Australian.

Further, the RAAF were so stretched that, just as one example, from mid-1944, 14 Squadron RAAF was solely responsible for anti-submarine operations for the whole western area. So it's no surprise then that during it's existence it did not sight the enemy once.

Just mustering the 18 planes that went searching for U-862 in late December 1944 was an achievement of coordination between 4 or 5 different RAAF Squadrons.

So my second point was that if players are constantly buzzed by planes like they are in Biscay, it's not right.

Just food for thought. What you've created so far still looks great and a more than welcome addition. :up:


I guess I should have ID'ed those three Sdq as RAAF vice RAF, Sorry about that, anyway will see how it works out during Beta testing.

by the way here one of my sources on U862 ops

http://www.navy.gov.au/spc/maritimepapers/piama15/piama15_ch9.pdf

[Wilcke]

Lurker,

Thanks for the link, was looking for something just like that in anticipation of your future release.

[MONOLITH]

Lurker..

Very happy to see you are spreading your talents and efforts into the German Campaign now.

Looking forward to it.


As always, I test for free. :smug:


Cheers.

[Able72]

OOOHHHH!!!!! I CAN"T WAIT!!!!! :rock:

[Bewolf]

This sounds fantastic. A big thanks for all the effort you put into this here. :up:

[Stuart Galbraith]

First of all, looking very much forward to what you put together. Much as I like the Uboat addon, it strikes me after reading up on the real life campaign how very unrealistic it its.

Couple of points, firstly are you going to change the coastal defences in the mis files? Im idly wonder if I ought to have a go with it. Ive found a map on line that lists the location of Australian gun batteries.The problem Is that to do it, id probably have to delete ALL the other gun positions for the allies and start again. The reason for this is that if you remove 10 and then put in 9 guns, the game has a crash. Part of the reason why Ive not done it for Japanese coastal defences, despite my initial plans to do so. In short, is it worthwhile to remove the unrealistic gun positions, to get historically realistic ones in Australia and Japan? It would leave vast areas like india and east africa uncovered unless its possible to find accurate sources. Ditto japanese guns in places like truk. At the moment, the designers choices look completely spurious as far as I can tell.

Lastly, reading 'Uboats in the Indian ocean', its apparent that both TypeIXC and Type IXC40 were both used in the area. I dont know if its viable for either of these to be introduced across from SH3? If it were, it would be viable to reintroduce upgrades, since its clear Uboat commanders and occasionally crew rotated between different boats in penang. it would also enable the opportunity to allow the single IX that was sent off to operate off new guinea, before getting sunk by a US Fleet boat.

Anyway, greatly looking forward to it, and whatever you come up with will be a great improvement.

[Hitman]

What does the "semi-realistic convoys" mean, if I may ask? You mean convoy frequency, escorts, contents....?

Looking forward to see your work finished :up:

[lurker_hlb3]

Go to first post for "official" readme

[AVGWarhawk]

The readme doesn't sound very fun. It sound a lot like a supermod. Will there be installation options?

No options. Super mod? Part of one. As far as fun....well, like anything else, it is what you make of it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Unfortunate. The only part that interest me is the traffic layers. Oh well, maybe if it isn't too hard, i will unmod the mod. But i don't like to do it, with gwx, i passed more time unmodding than actually playing, and in the end, unmodding gwx became impossible. I ended using mostly stock SH3 with only a couple mods that were made before everyone started "supermods".

I had really hoped not to have to ressort to unmodding with SH4. :damn:

You are a rare breed! Most want more mods everyday.

[Ducimus]

Rare breed? Funny thing is, im not even on the GWX team, and yet i feel offended. Go figure. I Guess the "modder" in me is having a twitch reaction. Anywho, life goes on, Scuse me while i go find the forum function which brings bliss.

[modisch]

Lurker,

Thanks for your excellent work. I look forward to playing OM. I'm also really happy to see the harmony between OM & TM/RFB. That definitely benefits everyone.

There's a wealth of knowledge, skill, and dedication that results in the excellent mods for SH3 and SH4.... I wish more people appreciated the contribution of the modders.

Best wishes,

-m

[misfitdreamer]

hoarmurath, you have a PM

[Rockin Robbins]

Offended? why?

I prefer to pick the mods i use instead of having mods that do many things, including things i never intended to change.

I prefer pacific environment 2 to environmental 4.1 just because, PE2 do only one thing, changing the environment (well, ok, with some menu changes, but i can live with that), while environmental 4.1 change the environment, but also the gameplay.

I don't think i'm such a rare breed, i think everyone prefer when they are offered the choice.

While i respect the hard work involved in the mod, i can't stop being disappointed that in order to benefit from the parts that suit me, i would have to endure parts i don't like to change. In the end, i will probably never use the mod, just because i dislike some of the changes.

My view of the supermod philosophy is : lots of good things spoiled by a few features. That's how i felt with every supermod i tried so far.

That's only my 2 cents, while reading the readme, i just felt exactly the same. That's why i asked if there was to be installation options. Or uninstallation options for some parts of the mod.
That's true of the games too. Maybe you don't like two periscopes in a submarine. Maybe the submarine should be pink. It would be nice to have personal preference.

Operation Monsun is about recreating history. It is Operation Monsun. You start in Lorient, with the real U-Boat choices (no Type XVIII), proceed though real traffic in the Atlantic and Indian Ocean to perform real tasks that U-Boat skippers in the Indian Ocean did. There are no fantasy upgrades because for a U-Boat skipper, this was exile to Alcatraz. You won't go raiding Midway because U-Boats didn't do that. Consider it a mission on steroids. And the character of the missions, the type of boat and friendly and enemy traffic all correspond with historical accuracy. Seen from this viewpoint Operation Monsun is not a mod at all!

What's not to like?

[Hitman]

Go to first post for "official" readme


I did read it from beginning to end before posting, yet I fail to see why they are "semi-realistic" and not "realistic" :-? All changes I have seen replicate historic routes, etc., so what is not realistic in those convoys? :hmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

What's not to like? This mod is going to affect the gameplay. This isn't history, but realism as perceived by the modder.

I may have another perception, or experience, of realism.

About the history part, some of the changes are about the knowledge of history of the modder. I personally disagree about the upgrades. Why? just check this :

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134821

Let me quote an interesting part of the posted transmission :


Far eastern situation
COMINCH appreciation number three
My 221317 January refers

Para one
U-862 arrived Batavia 15 February from operation in Australian waters having torpedoed the Robert Walker 24 December off Sydney and the Peter Silvester 6 February about 800 miles west of Perth. This U/b arrived Singapore 20 February presumably for overhaul. U-181 is at Singapore undergoing major engineering repairs which are expected to take until June, including fitting by Japs of rigid schnorchel.
Mmmmh, fitting a schnorchel, look like an upgrade to me. This is a simple exemple, i presume others could be found. I didn't searched hard to find one. What's even better, is that it's an upgrade that we haven't available in stock game. If something had to be done with upgrades, it seem it was to add some, not remove them.

About the removal of type XVIII. Well, i don't use it personally, but this is a personal choice. I think that once you have made clear where history ends and where fantasy start, i'm all for letting the choice to people. I definitely don't like choices made for me.

I'm still interested by more historical traffic in the indian ocean.
I have read your comments, so forth and so on. You look disgusted by this work and looking at your other post, you are disgusted with other modders work. Personally, if you do not care to have this or other modders work to use, don't. Sorry you do not care for super mods. If that is the case, stop looking in the super mod threads. There is a nice list of bits and pieces you can use located at the top of the forum in the form of a sticky. Also, your time might be served best elsewhere perhaps creating your own mods to your liking. When you have a superlative multiple mod ready for JSGME, post it up.

I have stated this before, most super mods are not like Burger King where you can have it your way.

[Mikhayl]

Just my two cents, I'm talking for me but I suppose it goes the same for some if not most people here : when I work on a mod, be it the smallest or the biggest thing, I do it for me in the first place, to suit my taste and my vision of what that mod should be. That way messing with the game files is a hobby = :).
If I had to do things to suit other people's taste and vision, it would turn into a work :
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/4341/roflpukecc9oe0.gif(smiley courtesy Jimbuna)

[AVGWarhawk]

Are you suggesting that only praises are allowed on this board? Sorry, i didn't knew.
Constructive criticism is always welcome. Again, if the mod does not suit you, add something that might help the creater make it better for all, not just the one. Telling Lurker that this mod is just not what you want and oh well, could be better, IMO is not constructive criticism. Advising Lurker that perhaps the snorkel was an upgrade and he might include it before the release, showing the proof of it's reality is the way to go. Sorry Lurker SPOILED it for you.

[tater]

Go to first post for "official" readme


I did read it from beginning to end before posting, yet I fail to see why they are "semi-realistic" and not "realistic" :-? All changes I have seen replicate historic routes, etc., so what is not realistic in those convoys? :hmm:

If I may be so bold as to speak for lurker (as a keen observer of his work), "replicating historical routes" and making plausible convoys is not "realistic," but "good enough" in this case due to lack of data.

For his stuff, "realistic" would require having precise information about the comings and goings of all the convoys in the area in question. A convoy name, a date and place of departure, a date and place of arrival, composition of ships, etc.

That's a "realistic" convoy.

For the rest of us, having about the right number of ships, and an appropriate mixture of escorts is "realistic."

<S>

tater

[AVGWarhawk]

Well put Tater.

[M. Sarsfield]

I prefer some randomness, anyway. Otherwise, if you have realistic convoys, we're getting back into the realm of scripted missions. I don't want that.

[Ducimus]

Offended? why?



Ill remove you from my ignore list, long enough to answer this question, so maybe you'll "get it". Lets rewind a bit:


I have found simple and quick fixes better for actual fixing than "supermods" that do a lot of things, to the point that nobody really know what they do, including their creators.
.


Combine this post with some free info and friendly advice which you've chosen to ignore. Thats fine, you can think im full of crap, no problem with that. Nevermind that ive probably spent 5 hours a day working on this game, since it was launched and have learned quite a bit about it.

But the italiziced part, pissed me off. It tells me three things. One, you just insinutaed that i didnt fix anything or that my fixes are crap. Again, keep in mind how much time ive devoted to this game. Two, that you are being a little arrogant towards modders in general Three, you have very little clue about how files interact with each other. Sometimes a fix in one file, requires an adjustment in another.


Now onto the next log on this modders fire:

Unfortunate. The only part that interest me is the traffic layers. Oh well, maybe if it isn't too hard, i will unmod the mod. But i don't like to do it, with gwx, i passed more time unmodding than actually playing, and in the end, unmodding gwx became impossible. I ended using mostly stock SH3 with only a couple mods that were made before everyone started "supermods".

I had really hoped not to have to ressort to unmodding with SH4. :damn:


Ok now this one really ticked me off, because it is a dig at all modders in general. First, it tells me that your using modders work which you get for free, through no effort on your part at all except to click a download link, and your attitude towards is much akin to using a modders work like a wad of toilet paper to wipe your ass with.

Second, it tells me that your insinuating that all their work is crap, and not worth playing, and comfirmed to me that your arrogant towards modders.

Thirdly it tells me you have ZERO appreciation or idea of how much work it takes to make a large mod.


So in sum, you take, you criticize, and you crap on.

How is one NOT to be offended?


Now, this is not to say that you shouldnt offer CONSTRUCTIVE criticizm, but your words are anything but that.


I now return you to my ignore list. Good bye.

[modisch]

There are two major issues behind doing something piecemeal.

The first is that many changes one might want to have a la carte modify the same file(s). This makes them more troublesome to install and raises the likelihood that people will have problems with them.

Second is that many modifications "make better sense" if they are in the context of other changes. Expanding air cover might be of limited impact to the game if the performance of the plane AI isn't improved. Of course, this issue is largely subjective... maybe you just want more weak planes rather than the substantial threat from above that the mod author thinks is best. But this is up to the perogative of the author and most choose to be guided by some consistent philosophy (realism, gameplay and challenge, etc).

I think one should respect the decisions of mod authors to do things the way they see fit. Everyone welcomes constructive criticism or bug finding, etc... But ultimately, as AVGWarhawk points out, this isn't Burger King... you can't have it your way.

Multi-change mods (super or smaller) are generally the best way to consistently modify the game experience... which is the objective of the authors. Everyone is free to start with a mod and tweak it to suit their interests. I've done that since discovering the mods for SH3. I played GWX with a ton of self-made tweaks and now I play TMO with tweaks.

I, however, don't have any entitlement to tell a mod author to do things to suit me. And being ungrateful or hostile is a great way to make the modders feel like they can find something better to do with their time... to the detriment of the rest of the community.

I think a better way to think of it isn't that something like OM is a "menu of modifications". It's a single mod with a single intended purpose. That there are multiple changes in it, some you like, some you don't... is generally moot unless you want to alter it yourself. Going back to the example of the planes.... the mod isn't "1. more planes, 2. harder planes." the mod is "Greater threat from planes". To that end, OM isn't a campaign layer and a multitude of other changes... OM is a "complete Operation Monsun experience."

anyhoo.. .enough babbling from me.

-m

[Hitman]

If I may be so bold as to speak for lurker (as a keen observer of his work), "replicating historical routes" and making plausible convoys is not "realistic," but "good enough" in this case due to lack of data.

For his stuff, "realistic" would require having precise information about the comings and goings of all the convoys in the area in question. A convoy name, a date and place of departure, a date and place of arrival, composition of ships, etc.

That's a "realistic" convoy.

For the rest of us, having about the right number of ships, and an appropriate mixture of escorts is "realistic."

<S>

tater

Aye, that makes sense :up:

I made the comment with 0% intention of critizism, quite the opposite. Being one the few ones who read the readmes and enjoy long and throughout ones, I failed to see any critics on the "realism" side in Lurker's work, that's why I asked.

Looking forward to see this mod completed, it will reach inmediately the "no playing without it" status that RSRD got :D

[M. Sarsfield]

The mod has been released! Woot! :D

[AVGWarhawk]

Find the release here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134922