[WIP] Increased ASW fun

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

I'm currently working on two mods (well, actually three, I guess). I'd just like to get some feedback and opinions on them.

#1 is providing aircraft on ASW patrol a true ASW loadout. Starting around mid '40 aircraft will (potentially) carry a mixed load of bombs and depth charges. This means if you lollygag about diving you'll not only have to worry about a line of bombs landing on your head but also string of depth charges going off below water, too.

#2 is creating the US Mark 9, fast-sinking depth charge, which came into service in 1943.

#3 is creating the British Mark X depth charge, which is a 3,000 pound depth charge (as compared to the standard 300 pound depth charges that we all know and love) which --Danke Gott!!-- came into service in December of 1944.

All three will be JSGME-installable, as well as GWX 2 compatible (which is not the same as GWX-approved).

Hopefully these will make things even more interesting.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

(which is not the same as GWX-approved).




:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


Nice one, sir! :up: (both mod and joke)

[yamato9]

Those mods will be excellent addons for SH3 reality!:yep:

:up:

[yamato9]

#3 is creating the British Mark X depth charge, which is a 3,000 pound depth charge (as compared to the standard 300 pound depth charges that we all know and love) which --Danke Gott!!-- came into service in December of 1944.

I'd go back to a U-boot only to experience that kind of thing, that's gotta shake :lol:
The whole thing sounds good, I like the aircraft carrying DC. Most of the time I know that they can't do much harm with their bombs so I slowly dive to 30 metres and wait, now that would make it more challenging.
By the way, isn't all that kinda masochist ? :hmm:

How i know many subs get hurt by airplanes but in SH3 they are more like some boring mosqitos which only can do damage on your time compression and nothing more.
Masochist or not sounds good!

[Graf Paper]

Aircraft carrying wasserbomben.:o
3000lb wasserbomben. :eek:

Yep, adding your name to list of modders that must die! :stare:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Aircraft carrying wasserbomben.:o
3000lb wasserbomben. :eek:

Yep, adding your name to list of modders that must die! :stare:

Actually, #s 2 and 3 (the Mark 9 and Mark X) are carried by destroyers and escorts, not aircraft. I'd hate to think of an airplane lining me up to drop a 3,000 pound 'gift' on my head! :huh:

[Sailor Steve]

Remember that the Mk X depth charge was considered something of a failure, since for all the added explosive tests showed that the kill radius was expanded from 25 feet to.....30 feet.

Also there was a great realistic depth charge mod a couple of years ago that reduced the kill radius from 25 meters to a more realistic 8 meters. It also had an optional six-foot-per-second sink rate that you could change out for late-war use, but the maker at that time couldn't make it upgrade automatically. Hopefully you can.

[P_Funk]

Didn't I read that the GWX boys gave all aircraft meant for ASW bombs becuase a bug in the game causes planes to not drop depth charges?

[xristoskaiti]

Do not understand...... air depth charge in the sh3 they have one big
bugs. they work precisely in order that bombs. make fire only in 5
measure depth!! the difference from the bombs in the sh3 are that the
planes him they only throw when the U-boot they is Submerged:damn: :damn: :damn:

[msalama]

Sounds great, this one is a definite install IMO :up: Thank you Herr Kaleun!

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Didn't I read that the GWX boys gave all aircraft meant for ASW bombs becuase a bug in the game causes planes to not drop depth charges?

Do not understand...... air depth charge in the sh3 they have one big bugs. they work precisely in order that bombs. make fire only in 5
measure depth!! the difference from the bombs in the sh3 are that the
planes him they only throw when the U-boot they is Submerged:damn: :damn: :damn:

P_Funk, I'd read that, too. But I've tested this for more than 20 hours in different configurations and scenarios, and I've yet to encounter a situation where the depth charges weren't dropped.

xristoskaiti, I've modded both the bombs and the depth charges. Bombs now explode on contact with the water or about a meter below. The depth charges are set to go off between 15 and 20 meters . . . which they now reliably do.

Remember that the Mk X depth charge was considered something of a failure, since for all the added explosive tests showed that the kill radius was expanded from 25 feet to.....30 feet.


SS, do you have a reference for that, that I can access? I've tried looking up historical info on that (like I have for all three) to get accurate info on size, date of service, which ships carried it, etc, but so far I've only found sketchy info. Any help on historical references and information will be appreciated!

[xristoskaiti]

you have made air depth charge for the 20 meters ??:rock: you can also for
bigger depth??:hmm:

[xristoskaiti]

you work with the files of bombs.sim sh4 ???they is truth if you put the
bombs.sim in sh3 of library air DepthCharge they have fire in the
40-45 m ............ I see very well when they are sunk
with exterior kamera.:rock: :rock: :rock:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

you work with the files of bombs.sim sh4 ???they is truth if you put the
bombs.sim in sh3 of library air DepthCharge they have fire in the
40-45 m ............ I see very well when they are sunk
with exterior kamera.:rock: :rock: :rock:

No, I'm using the SHIII/GWX bombs.sim file. I can set the depth to whatever I wish (even 200 - 300 meters). However, based upon my research so far it appears that air-dropped depth charges, like the US Mark 17, were set for shallow depth detonation. Unfortunately :damn: :nope: the articles I've read don't mention just what depth was considered 'shallow'. For now I've set them for 20 meters, but I'm considering setting them instead to 15 +/- 5 meters depth. If anyone could point me to a reference article that gives more specifics I'd appreciate it.

I think I'm going to skip having the ASW loadout appear in mid '40 and just go with it from the start, mostly due to the hassle and extreme extra work modifying the campaign files to accommodate the aircraft loadouts changing as time passes.

For the moment I'm busy creating the ASW loadouts on a per-plane basis, and double-checking the ordnance weight allowances per aircraft to remain 'real'. For instance, the museum file for the Sunderland states it can carry up to 1,000 Kg of dropable munitions. That works out to be four air-dropped depth charges (roughly 150Kg apiece) and four 100Kg bombs. I'm checking each aircraft the same way so that they carry no more than their maximum carrying capacity.

Then I have to modify the campaign files so that the appropriate spawned and scripted aircraft have the ASW loadout as their loadouts. :doh:

I hope to have the aircraft ASW mod released fairly soon. --fingers crossed--

[Sailor Steve]

SS, do you have a reference for that, that I can access? I've tried looking up historical info on that (like I have for all three) to get accurate info on size, date of service, which ships carried it, etc, but so far I've only found sketchy info. Any help on historical references and information will be appreciated!
Unfortunately no; it's one of those anecdotal things you read and then remember years later. I can't even check my references - they're all in storage.
The closest I can come right now is the problem of having to shoot them from torpedo tubes, which means that corvettes won't have them.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMBR_ASW.htm

Wiki quotes Campbell's Naval Weapons of World War Two as saying that they were "seldom used", but since my Campbell is one of those books "in storage" right now I can't even verify that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_charge

[xristoskaiti]

continue your work!!:rock:

[Pablo]

Didn't I read that the GWX boys gave all aircraft meant for ASW bombs becuase a bug in the game causes planes to not drop depth charges? Hi!

Yes, you did; however, the GWX technomages subsequently fixed that problem, and so GWX aircraft use depth charges.

Pablo

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Ok, if anyone wants to just take this for a test drive :D I've uploaded a small file. Just unzip and enable as usual using JSGME, placing the main folder in the MODS directory.

Just start up SHIII/GWX2 then select single mission and load the mission named air (so sue me for lack of originality :p ). You'll be driving an IXB on the surface, with a Sunderland coming up astern around eight clicks behind you.

And you'll see why it really isn't a good idea to take your time diving! :arrgh!:

Play with it a little bit if you don't mind. I'd like your opinions on the loadout, its power and effectivity, and the different ways the aircraft drops its load depending on your depth and speed. Meanwhile I'll be off modding all the appropriate aircraft for their new ASW loadouts, and then --shudders-- heading off into the campaign files.

Have fun!

http://files.filefront.com/AvH+Aircraft+ASW+teaserzip/;9774829;/fileinfo.html

[xristoskaiti]

download now!!:rock:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

After more research and some feedback I've decided to scrap modding the British Mark X depth charge. It doesn't seem to have seen much service, nor did it appear to have any real impact on ASW performance.

I've identified the appropriate aircraft (supplied by GWX) that (seem to, anyway) were likely to have been used for ASW patrols. I'm in the process of updating their files for ASW loadouts, but I'm running into a little snag.

That snag is that I'm trying to keep things historically accurate while also playable. I can find some information on British air-dropped depth charges (Thanks Sailor Steve!) but I'm coming up dry on information on American ones.

The information I'm looking for on both the British and American versions are: date entered service, model #s, weight of bomb/depth charge, weight of explosive, sink rates and depth settings. I'm also trying to find references to the actual loadouts various aircraft ASW patrols carried. For instance, would it be historically accurate to have a Catalina carry 8 air bombs and 4 100Kg bombs?

If anyone has any input, or can point me in directions for research I'd be deeply appreciative.

Also, just to get an idea . . . how historically accurate do the Kaleuns here wish this to be? For example, I can easily set the detonation depth of the air depth charges to, say, 25 meters, which would definitely make crash-diving something almost necessary. But the historical detonation depths (that I've found so far, anyway) for the typical British air-dropped depth charges are only 7.6 meters. Not exactly 'threatening' . . . or new, for that matter, as the GWX settings are either 5 meters or 10 meters detonation depth.

Danke!

[Myxale]

Aircraft carrying wasserbomben.:o
3000lb wasserbomben. :eek:

Yep, adding your name to list of modders that must die! :stare:

:rotfl:

hehe!:|\\

[xristoskaiti]

VERY BIG STATEMENT ............


I have been careful that with small change of file AI SENSORS the
planes can see also Submerged u-boots.you can be worked with this
important trait????? with such change will become very realistic the game :hmm:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

This is the initial release of the aircraft ASW mod. Not a lot got changed, and the changes themselves aren't drastic. But (hopefully!) this'll make encountering aircraft when you're on the surface a bit, umm . . . fun? :huh:

http://hosted.filefront.com/vonHesse/ (http://hosted.filefront.com/vonHesse/)
AvH_Aircraft_ASW_v1.zip

[msalama]

Pardon me for being a dumba$$ here, but this mod _does_ work w/ GWX2xx doesn't it? And no installing during a patrol, right?

On a more general note this mod sounds like it might indeed rock somewhat... somewhat BIG TIME that is :rock:

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

holy smokes :o
sound fun in 1944 :arrgh!:

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

AWSOME!!!!!! :rock:

i just got bombed in that mission, you REALY have to use it with the LRT mod :rock::rock:
(some screeny's)

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/evangelionunit03/SH3Img10-3-2008_10738_243.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/evangelionunit03/SH3Img10-3-2008_10743_259.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb231/evangelionunit03/SH3Img10-3-2008_10752_25.jpg

just to let you know, i died :up:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Pardon me for being a dumba$$ here, but this mod _does_ work w/ GWX2xx doesn't it? And no installing during a patrol, right?

On a more general note this mod sounds like it might indeed rock somewhat... somewhat BIG TIME that is :rock:

Ummm, not being a dumba$$ at all. My fault for not being more specific, actually. :oops:

It was made to work (and tested with) with GWX2. I doubt it will work for anything else, as it utilizes the additional aircraft from GWX2. And no installing in mid-patrol, no.

AWSOME!!!!!! :rock:

i just got bombed in that mission, you REALY have to use it with the LRT mod :rock::rock:

I'm glad you like it. :)

I want to point out, though (giving credit where it is definitely due) that GWX2 does have quite a few of their aircraft already carrying air depth charges as their loadout. Really, all I did was a few minor tweaks to the bombs and air depth charge settings, and modified some of the aircraft to carry both bombs (for surface) and air depth charges (for submerged).

For example, the Catalina (with a 2,000 Kg ordnance weight) now carries two 500 Kg bombs and six air depth charges. What gets dropped on your head depends on where your U-boat is at the time of the bombing run: if you're on the surface you'll most likely get all eight dropped on you (which is hideous if they're at all close to you); if you're just diving usually one bomb and between two and four of the air depth charges drop; if you've submerged it seems to usually just be a couple of the air depth charges.

Thing is, this certainly gives you a very real reason not to diddle around on the surface when you have an incoming aircraft. If it's the wrong aircraft . . . you most likely won't live long enough to regret your mistake.

I've started modding the Mark 9, fast-sinking US depth charge. This is considerably more work and more involved, due to the nature of the depth charge files. But when I'm done, around 1942 (when they actually entered service) US destroyers and escorts will start carrying the Mark 9 fast-sinking depth charges. As they sink twice as fast as the standard depth charges . . . :huh: . . . again this should make for interesting times.

[HundertzehnGustav]

hang him...:nope:
traitor...:nope:

:lol: :rotfl:

[swuboo]

If memory serves, early war American planes used depth charges set to something like 150-200 meters, since that was believed to be the maximum depth a U-Boat could achieve given two minutes' warning. The policy was changed to 50 meters after researchers at RAND found that, in the aggregate, U-Boats were unlikely to have that much warning or crash dive with optimal efficiency. Reported kills went up dramatically.

Those numbers are ballparks from memory, and I don't know how accurate my source was (since it was not primarily concerned with naval warfare,) or when the shift might have taken place. The book in question is Wizards of Armageddon, by Fred Kaplan, about nuclear deployment policy in the early Cold War.

I can't find it at the moment, but if I manage to dig it up later today I'll give more specific figures---if we're lucky, Kaplan's bibliography might cite the RAND whitepapers in question.

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

I'd mentioned above about getting caught on the surface being hideous. This was one of the test runs with the Catalina, with me doing flank speed on the surface:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/SH3Img9-3-2008_2205_843.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/SH3Img9-3-2008_22023_468.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l192/Albrecht_von_Hesse/SH3Img9-3-2008_22039_765.jpg

I hate myself. :rotfl:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Additional aircraft have been modified for ASW loadouts. The campaign.scr file has been modified so that ASW patrols carry ASW loadouts.

All US DDs and DEs now carry the Mark 9 fast-sinking depth charges starting June 1943. British DDs and DEs start carrying the Mark VII heavy depth charges starting September 1942.

I hope to have this version released by March 22nd.

[xristoskaiti]

exists also the command merge in order to they is compatible with
all Campaigns!!:lol:

[Albrecht Von Hesse]

Remember that the Mk X depth charge was considered something of a failure, since for all the added explosive tests showed that the kill radius was expanded from 25 feet to.....30 feet.

Also there was a great realistic depth charge mod a couple of years ago that reduced the kill radius from 25 meters to a more realistic 8 meters. It also had an optional six-foot-per-second sink rate that you could change out for late-war use, but the maker at that time couldn't make it upgrade automatically. Hopefully you can.

All the depth charges automatically upgrade; the US upgrades to the Mark 9 in June 1943, while the British upgrade to the Mark VII heavy in September 1942.

And the Mark 9, ummm . . . looks like a Mark 9, too. ;)

[msalama]

I hate myself. :rotfl:

:o

Blimey.

I'm a dead Kaleun w/ 40-odd hands lost altogether after this mod gets out, that's for sure :lol: S! m8, that's one rockin' piece of work you're doing there...

[Fury of a Seraph]

And the Mark 9, ummm . . . looks like a Mark 9, too. ;)
^_________________^
I say nothing.

Hey Albrecht looks like your next post is your 1k, unless it maxes at 999.

[Lionman]

And the Mark 9, ummm . . . looks like a Mark 9, too. ;)
^_________________^
I say nothing.

Hey Albrecht looks like your next post is your 1k, unless it maxes at 999.

OK OK I'll bite - what's the story behind your "Fury of a Seraph" pseudonym?
Uh Oh I just spotted "Battlestar Galactica Fan" so I'm guessing that it's something to do with that.

[xristoskaiti]

Hello there is a link to this mod?:)

[FUBAR295]

Hello there is a link to this mod?:)


Try this ...

http://www.mediafire.com/file/h1xk3sv7qvusfk9/Increased_ASW_a.zip/file

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

[Aquelarrefox]

how this works with nygm? the sea-land where every thing hurts you. i dont remember reading nothing of deep dd deepcharges in nygm.

[xristoskaiti]

Try this ...

http://www.mediafire.com/file/h1xk3sv7qvusfk9/Increased_ASW_a.zip/file

Good hunting,
FUBAR295

:Kaleun_Cheers:thank you very much! this is!

[xristoskaiti]

how this works with nygm? the sea-land where every thing hurts you. i dont remember reading nothing of deep dd deepcharges in nygm.

I don't think it's compatible with NYGM:)

[Ktl_KUrtz]

All three will be JSGME-installable, as well as GWX 2 compatible (which is not the same as GWX-approved).

Hopefully these will make things even more interesting.
Hopefully these will work with NYGM sometime in the future?