[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled

[TorpX]

What exactly is the "Terrible T" campaign?


Ducimus was thinking about having a campaign where one spent their entire career in a single boat, a while back. Could this have anything to do with the problem?

Edit:

Ducimus answered this in another thread.

[Dignan]

So I recently started playing SH4 again and updated to TMO 2.5.
(been on an SH5 kick. FWIW, SH5 has come a long way and the mods for it are spectacular but SH4 is always going to be the mainstay for me)

Do I need, or can I use SCAF with 2.5? Is it necessary? Does the stadi work decently in 2.5? If so where is the measuring point? Top of the mast? Top of funnel? I like to use "no map updates" so having a properly working stadimeter is important for my tactics.

Any info is appreciated. I'm currently running these mods in this order.

1 TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
2 TGT DIALS TO PK FIX - TMO
3 RSRDC_TMO_V502
4 SCAF for RSRDC_TMO_V502

[donna52522]

So I recently started playing SH4 again and updated to TMO 2.5.
(been on an SH5 kick. FWIW, SH5 has come a long way and the mods for it are spectacular but SH4 is always going to be the mainstay for me)

Do I need, or can I use SCAF with 2.5? Is it necessary? Does the stadi work decently in 2.5? If so where is the measuring point? Top of the mast? Top of funnel? I like to use "no map updates" so having a properly working stadimeter is important for my tactics.

Any info is appreciated. I'm currently running these mods in this order.

1 TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
2 TGT DIALS TO PK FIX - TMO
3 RSRDC_TMO_V502
4 SCAF for RSRDC_TMO_V502

Your running the correct mod already for SCAF....The SCAF ship ID book should have red lines showing where the measuring point is on each ship.

[fitzcarraldo]

So I recently started playing SH4 again and updated to TMO 2.5.
(been on an SH5 kick. FWIW, SH5 has come a long way and the mods for it are spectacular but SH4 is always going to be the mainstay for me)

Do I need, or can I use SCAF with 2.5? Is it necessary? Does the stadi work decently in 2.5? If so where is the measuring point? Top of the mast? Top of funnel? I like to use "no map updates" so having a properly working stadimeter is important for my tactics.

Any info is appreciated. I'm currently running these mods in this order.

1 TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
2 TGT DIALS TO PK FIX - TMO
3 RSRDC_TMO_V502
4 SCAF for RSRDC_TMO_V502

I recommend you to add the RSRDC Patch, and MaxOptics 4. Both are here in SUBSIM.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[jahlmeen]

How do I enable stock gramophone with metric nomograph? Tried replacing all "METRIC_usergramophone.dds" with "usergramophone.dds" in the metric nomograph optional mods menu.ini file, but it did not work.

Also is any version of SCAF or OTC compatible with TMO 2,5? They seem quite essential to get correct ranges from the stadimeter, or can I go on and play without those mods?

[DrBeast]

Also is any version of SCAF or OTC compatible with TMO 2,5? They seem quite essential to get correct ranges from the stadimeter, or can I go on and play without those mods?

SCAF has been discontinued/replaced with OTC. There is currently not a compatible version of that mod available.

[fitzcarraldo]

SCAF has been discontinued/replaced with OTC. There is currently not a compatible version of that mod available.

I use SCAF with TMO 25 plus RSRDC, and no problem...

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[EricW]

SCAF has been discontinued/replaced with OTC. There is currently not a compatible version of that mod available.

Actually, I loaded up TMO 2.5 and OTC for TMO for my current patrol/campaign and haven't had any issues....yet :03:. I just wanted to see if it would open up and its been very stable with no noticeable glitches.

Just going from memory, I have loaded up the following-

TMO 2.5
TMO 2.5 small patch
OTC for TMO
OTC 5x4 res
OTC realistic scopes
EAX sound without Webster's manuever

That said, I've only got about 4-5 hrs of time on it.

[jahlmeen]

Okay ;)

Here is stock gramophone + metric nomograph for TMO 2.5:
http://www.2shared.com/file/WGyR0JX8/TMO25_Stock_GramaphoneMetric_S.html

TMO2.5_Stock_Gramaphone+Metric_SpeedChart_Nomo.rar

I guess "speedchart" is not included, as it is stock gramophone, just fyi.

[DrBeast]

Actually, I loaded up TMO 2.5 and OTC for TMO for my current patrol/campaign and haven't had any issues....yet :03:. I just wanted to see if it would open up and its been very stable with no noticeable glitches.

Just going from memory, I have loaded up the following-

TMO 2.5
TMO 2.5 small patch
OTC for TMO
OTC 5x4 res
OTC realistic scopes
EAX sound without Webster's manuever

That said, I've only got about 4-5 hrs of time on it.

If it works, that's great. The version of OTC available for download is stated to be compatible with 2.2, though.

I use SCAF with TMO 25 plus RSRDC, and no problem...

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

The last version of SCAF was compatible with TMO 1.9, and that includes the version which was released for RSRDC. Again, if it works, that's great but don't be surprised if some oddities creep up in the long run :)

[Bilge_Rat]

SCAF has been discontinued/replaced with OTC. There is currently not a compatible version of that mod available.

Actually the last version of SCAF works well with TMO and is what I use. SCAF only changes the values in the recognition manual. From the testing I have done, the range for 90% of the ships is dead on and the other 10% is +/-10%, perfectly acceptable for a game.

OTC overwrites many key TMO 2.5 files like Nisgeis 3d TDC /range mod, so it is not currently compatible for TMO.

[DrBeast]

Actually the last version of SCAF works well with TMO and is what I use. SCAF only changes the values in the recognition manual. From the testing I have done, the range for 90% of the ships is dead on and the other 10% is +/-10%, perfectly acceptable for a game.

OTC overwrites many key TMO 2.5 files like Nisgeis 3d TDC /range mod, so it is not currently compatible for TMO.

SCAF to the rescue, then. Good to know, thanks for the clarification :DL

[DrBeast]

Small follow-up: OTC is now compatible with TMO 2.5 :DL

[fitzcarraldo]

Small follow-up: OTC is now compatible with TMO 2.5 :DL

...And TMO 25 with RSRDC for TMO. Great!

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[gAiNiAc]

I can't speak to that. What I have discovered is that if one accepts the Tambor, the CareerTrack.upc file in saved games indicates that one is now playing "TamborCareer". It never changes after that. Moreover, it appears that when the assigned base changes, the home base becomes Freemantle, without any way of transferring out. Other people have had the same experience.

This would tend to validate my idea that the "Terrible T" campaign has broken something. It would be nice if Ducimus could back the "Terrible T" campaign out of the main mod. My preference would be to stick it into the optional mods directory.

Absent the Tambor bugs, TMO 2.5 is ideal from my standpoint - it makes SH4 into a first class WW II sub sim.

Fix for the "Terrible T/ Tambor bug" can be found here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=192657

[haz]

Maybe Im the only one but i cant see a thing at night,even with gamma turned up,how would i go about fixing it?great mod just cant see.any help appreciated,amd 6870 gpu.

[Frenchy849]

I can't start a career with the Gato,Narwhal,Tench...well,all the big ones.
Everytime I finish loading,I CTD.
Tried reinstalling the mod,didn't work...
Also the undamaged battleships at Pearl Harbor are black for some reason.

[Charlie901]

I found a Bug in the Alt Engines Mod of TMO 2.5...

It seems that whenever this Mod is enabled the smaller calibur AA guns become mute and have no sound at all...

[Sidekikd34]

I can't start a career with the Gato,Narwhal,Tench...well,all the big ones.
Everytime I finish loading,I CTD.
Tried reinstalling the mod,didn't work...
Also the undamaged battleships at Pearl Harbor are black for some reason.

Your main game files probably got corrupted. I'd suspect you need to do a clean reinstall of the whole program.

[gAiNiAc]

I found a Bug in the Alt Engines Mod of TMO 2.5...

It seems that whenever this Mod is enabled the smaller calibur AA guns become mute and have no sound at all...


My 20mm and bofors get along fine together....

[aanker]

Your main game files probably got corrupted. I'd suspect you need to do a clean reinstall of the whole program.
To bad... to prevent having to go through the clean reinstall in the future I suggest a backup 'Clean' install that never gets played or touched (it is only 5 Gigs). If I ever mess up my SH4 install I delete the DATA folder and replace it by copying the DATA folder from the backup Clean install.

Of course if using the JSGME a few extra steps are needed for that - the new MODS folder with fresh mods and a new 'clean' snapshot before anything is enabled - but the hard part of that PITA re-install is unnecessary and done.

Happy Hunting!

Art

[Horus3K]

Good Job and a big thx for this amazing mod, just beginning to loving it :)

[altoso99]

Coming from RFB and the TMO ASW dificulty is ridiculously high, they kill me 9/10 times, impossible to break contact, speed and depth changes, hard turns, but they still drop DC right over my sub.

I'm in August 1942 and attacking a convoy is suicide, they pinpoint my firing position and in a moment you have multiple escorts overhead pinging like crazy. They're just too good.

I'm playing TMO campaign (I read that RSRDC has lower escort skill) but I still like the TMO campaign, how can I reduce the escort difficulty in TMO?

[fitzcarraldo]

Coming from RFB and the TMO ASW dificulty is ridiculously high, they kill me 9/10 times, impossible to break contact, speed and depth changes, hard turns, but they still drop DC right over my sub.

I'm in August 1942 and attacking a convoy is suicide, they pinpoint my firing position and in a moment you have multiple escorts overhead pinging like crazy. They're just too good.

I'm playing TMO campaign (I read that RSRDC has lower escort skill) but I still like the TMO campaign, how can I reduce the escort difficulty in TMO?

There is a mod (I think in SUBSIM), for easy AI for TMO, but I don´t know if this mod works with version 25.

Regards.

Fitz :salute:

[Dignan]

There is a mod (I think in SUBSIM), for easy AI for TMO, but I don´t know if this mod works with version 25.

Regards.

Fitz :salute:

I use the easier AI mod but I'd still like to know exactly how much it dumbs down the AI. For instance, if stock is a difficulty of 1 and TMO is a difficulty of 10, then what would TMO easier AI be? Anyone know?

[fitzcarraldo]

I use the easier AI mod but I'd still like to know exactly how much it dumbs down the AI. For instance, if stock is a difficulty of 1 and TMO is a difficulty of 10, then what would TMO easier AI be? Anyone know?

I could tell a 6 in the scale 1-10...

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[gAiNiAc]

I could tell a 6 in the scale 1-10...

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:


I must be lucky or something; I'm 14 patrols in and I have no problems dealing with the AI.....had a few moments, but my tactics seem to be very sound.

[gAiNiAc]

One minor niggle regarding this version...........

I think visual sensors (Watchstanders) are completely nerfed.

Consistently speaking, I find that sightings on the horizon, which are plain to see, are not being picked up and it always seems that escorts pick me up first. I'm talking about I can be sitting there, at ahead 1/3, minimal aspect, and the bad guys are charging and firing before my guys even spot them.

This happens across all sorts of conditions...........even on the blackest of moonless nights........

The ONLY exception seems to be when I'm decks-awash........all stop or 1/3rd....for instance, I got a radio report of a large convoy leaving Bungo Suido.....

I position myself for an intercept....picked up the lead escort on radar. Shut down the set........did a manual sweep or two to pick up the formation and vector and got to my ambush point.

I lined up facing them offeset from their line of advance by 3000 yards.....decks awash, all stop, sunrise and the sun is BEHIND me....

I could see, easily 8 silhouettes of merchants, the lead escort, stack smoke from all........

Not a PEEP out of the lookouts.

It's nerfed.

[DrBeast]

One minor niggle regarding this version...........

I think visual sensors (Watchstanders) are completely nerfed.

Consistently speaking, I find that sightings on the horizon, which are plain to see, are not being picked up and it always seems that escorts pick me up first. I'm talking about I can be sitting there, at ahead 1/3, minimal aspect, and the bad guys are charging and firing before my guys even spot them.

This happens across all sorts of conditions...........even on the blackest of moonless nights........

The ONLY exception seems to be when I'm decks-awash........all stop or 1/3rd....for instance, I got a radio report of a large convoy leaving Bungo Suido.....

I position myself for an intercept....picked up the lead escort on radar. Shut down the set........did a manual sweep or two to pick up the formation and vector and got to my ambush point.

I lined up facing them offeset from their line of advance by 3000 yards.....decks awash, all stop, sunrise and the sun is BEHIND me....

I could see, easily 8 silhouettes of merchants, the lead escort, stack smoke from all........

Not a PEEP out of the lookouts.

It's nerfed.

Try adjusting the visual parameters in sensors.cfg. Lower values mean less of a handicap.

[Dogsbd]

I can't say for sure this is TMO related or not but I am experiencing a weird graphical anomaly running SH4 1.5 with Trigger Maru Overhaul 2.5, no other mods etc.

When I damage an enemy merchant ship or my sub receives even the slightest damage the model for the damaged ship/subchanges drastically. I have a screenshot at home but since I am posting this from work I will try to describe it as best I can.

Upon receiving the slightest damage the outer hull of the vessel disappears, you can then see the interior bulkheads, frames etc. and those are all burnt, rusted, bent etc. An enemy ship will sail off after one torpedo hit looking like a skeleton of a ship, my sub will function almost perfectly with 5% hull damage but will look like a sub in the middle of being scrapped.

Any ideas appreciated.

[DrBeast]

I can't say for sure this is TMO related or not but I am experiencing a weird graphical anomaly running SH4 1.5 with Trigger Maru Overhaul 2.5, no other mods etc.

When I damage an enemy merchant ship or my sub receives even the slightest damage the model for the damaged ship/subchanges drastically. I have a screenshot at home but since I am posting this from work I will try to describe it as best I can.

Upon receiving the slightest damage the outer hull of the vessel disappears, you can then see the interior bulkheads, frames etc. and those are all burnt, rusted, bent etc. An enemy ship will sail off after one torpedo hit looking like a skeleton of a ship, my sub will function almost perfectly with 5% hull damage but will look like a sub in the middle of being scrapped.

Any ideas appreciated.

Let me guess: ATi graphics card? The "skeleton ships" issue has been discussed before, and the solution is to select either Multi-Sample or Super-Sample Anti-aliasing from your Catalyst Control Center. The culprit seems to be Adaptive Multi-Sample AA. This is a core-game related issue.

[Dogsbd]

Let me guess: ATi graphics card? The "skeleton ships" issue has been discussed before, and the solution is to select either Multi-Sample or Super-Sample Anti-aliasing from your Catalyst Control Center. The culprit seems to be Adaptive Multi-Sample AA. This is a core-game related issue.

That fixed it, thanks!

[gAiNiAc]

Try adjusting the visual parameters in sensors.cfg. Lower values mean less of a handicap.

I'll give it a shot Doc. thanks

[rat sub]

Just a quick question with playing trigger maru 2.5, How can i get away from DDs because once they lock on to me they keep pinging me and depth charging me.

I go Deep really deep past the crush depth but they still come at me and i am at a loss, havent played the campain still on the sub school convoy mission.

I am a silent hunter 4 vet but trigger is too hard.
thanks again

[haz]

is the horizon and nights so dark you cant see anything?even when moon comes up is no horizon,this the way its supposed to be/otherwise great mod.

[DrBeast]

I love this mod, I really do. But the stock deckgun crew bug, in conjunction with Gar/Tambor having stern deckgun placement ONLY in TMO is driving me nuts!

When I started a new career, I thought long and hard about deckgun placement. I decided to keep the default Bow only settings, knowing full well the Gar/Tambor limitations, but hoping to circumvent the issue by a) starting with any other boat, and b) waiting until the Gato became available and turning down offers for new subs until then. So I picked a Sargo class and started out from Manilla for a change. Racked up patrol after patrol, the months went by, I turned down offers for new subs twice, until finally it was 1943 and the Gato was (theoretically) available for my Flotilla (TMO+RSRDC combo, btw). February 1943, and as I return home from yet another highly successful sortie, I get offered command of a new sub. "At last!", I think, only to find myself in command of a Tambor!!! :damn:

So...am I stuck with my Sargo? Do I HAVE to be in command of a Gar/Tambor before being offered a Gato? Or should I roll up my sleeves and try to make the 3'50'' deck gun available as Bow only on Gar/Tambors, as a temporary solution (I know the 5'51'' can only be placed at the stern, hence the issue with these boats, but I'm not really interested in using that cannon)? If so, can this change be made mid-patrol, or do I turn down YET another new boat offer and tinker with the UPC files while I'm in port?

[gAiNiAc]

I love this mod, I really do. But the stock deckgun crew bug, in conjunction with Gar/Tambor having stern deckgun placement ONLY in TMO is driving me nuts!

When I started a new career, I thought long and hard about deckgun placement. I decided to keep the default Bow only settings, knowing full well the Gar/Tambor limitations, but hoping to circumvent the issue by a) starting with any other boat, and b) waiting until the Gato became available and turning down offers for new subs until then. So I picked a Sargo class and started out from Manilla for a change. Racked up patrol after patrol, the months went by, I turned down offers for new subs twice, until finally it was 1943 and the Gato was (theoretically) available for my Flotilla (TMO+RSRDC combo, btw). February 1943, and as I return home from yet another highly successful sortie, I get offered command of a new sub. "At last!", I think, only to find myself in command of a Tambor!!! :damn:

So...am I stuck with my Sargo? Do I HAVE to be in command of a Gar/Tambor before being offered a Gato? Or should I roll up my sleeves and try to make the 3'50'' deck gun available as Bow only on Gar/Tambors, as a temporary solution (I know the 5'51'' can only be placed at the stern, hence the issue with these boats, but I'm not really interested in using that cannon)? If so, can this change be made mid-patrol, or do I turn down YET another new boat offer and tinker with the UPC files while I'm in port?


Go back to your save before you were offered the Tambor and apply the fix talked about here........:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1853812&postcount=3766

[DrBeast]

Go back to your save before you were offered the Tambor and apply the fix talked about here........:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1853812&postcount=3766

Ah yes, I remember that thread! My only concern is I'm playing TMO+RSRDC, but I should be able to tackle that (aka WinMerge to the rescue!).

Thanks! :up:

[gAiNiAc]

Ah yes, I remember that thread! My only concern is I'm playing TMO+RSRDC, but I should be able to tackle that (aka WinMerge to the rescue!).

Thanks! :up:

I'm playing the same; worked for me.

[DrBeast]

I'm playing the same; worked for me.

That's because, when you enable the mods in the proper order (TMO first, RSRDC second), Flotillas.upc and CareerStart.upc will be overwritten by RSRDC. So, essentially, what worked for you was changing UpgradeClass in NSS_Tambor.upc, and that's really all that needs to be done when playing the TMO+RSRDC combo :yep:

Nevertheless, thanks again for pointing me in the right direction!

ETA: It worked!!! I can finally head to bed (bloody hell, past 8am again!) :haha:

[0rpheus]

On a different note, does anyone know what file in TMO (or stock SH4 for that matter) controls the ocean's visual parameters (underwater algae/clouding etc)? :hmmm:

[altoso99]

I have a question, regarding the Sargo class, how many torpedoes did it carried?

When I played RFB I think they had 20 internals and 4 external torpedoes, but TMO has no external and 22 internal torpedoes. What's the real loadout?

I'm trying to play realistic, so I want to know how many internal torpedoes did the Sargo really carried, and I'm not using external as they weren't used that much when the war starterd (subs had to spend hours in surface taking the torps below deck)
I've been looking for real world data about the number of reloads carried in the forward torpedo room, but I couldn't find anything conclusive.

Maybe they had the same internal storage space than Tambor, then they would have 10 foward torpedo reloads, so that would make 22 internals and 4 externals ,but the sargo is listed has having 24 torps.
Anybody can give me real life figures?

[Roger Dodger]

I have a question, regarding the Sargo class, how many torpedoes did it carried?

Maybe they had the same internal storage space than Tambor, then they would have 10 foward torpedo reloads, so that would make 22 internals and 4 externals ,but the sargo is listed has having 24 torps.
Anybody can give me real life figures?

You seem a little confused between the two classes. It was the Salmon-class sub that had the 4 external (storage) tubes, not the Sargo-class. Both classes carried a total of 24 torpedoes (+ 4 externally in early model Salmons). Both classes had 4 forward and 4 aft torpedo tubes. Normal configuration of the after tubes was 4 loaded + 4 reloads for a total of 8 torpedoes aft. The forward torpedo room carried 4 loaded + 12 reloads.

I doubt the developers would have programmed the Salmon's external storage tubes. Details and citations from Wikipedia:

ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sargo_class_submarine

The Sargo-class submarines were the first US submarines to be sent into action after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, starting war patrols the day after the attack. They were built between 1937 and 1939.

The Sargo-class submarine USS Swordfish (SS-193) had the distinction of sinking the first Japanese ship sent to the bottom by US forces in World War II.

The Sargo class was very active during the war, sinking 73 ships, including a Japanese submarine.

Armament: 8 × 21-inch (533 mm) torpedo tubes
(four forward, four aft)
24 torpedoes [3]
1 × 3-inch (76 mm) / 50 caliber deck gun [3]
four machine guns

[3] U.S. Submarines Through 1945 pp. 305–311

ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmon_class_submarine

The United States Navy Salmon-class submarines were an important developmental step in the design of the "Fleet Submarine" concept during the 1930's. An incremental improvement over the previous Porpoise-class, these rugged and dependable boats provided yeoman service during World War II, along with their immediate successors, the similar Sargo-class.

Armament: 8 × 21-inch (533 mm) torpedo tubes
(four forward, four aft)
24 torpedoes[4]
1 × 3-inch (76 mm) / 50 caliber deck gun[4]
four machine guns

[4] U.S. Submarines Through 1945 pp. 305–311

The six boats of this class (Salmon) were straight forward derivations of the later boats of the preceding Porpoise class. Although considered to be successful in most respects, valuable lessons had been learned from the Porpoises and operating experience showed the need to expand the operating envelope. The Salmons were longer, heavier, and faster versions with a better internal arrangement and a heavier armament. Two additional torpedo tubes were added to the aft torpedo room, for a total of four forward and four aft.[13] Some submariners wanted six tubes forward, but design philosophy and tactics of the day did not yet support this. However, in an effort to increase the number of torpedoes carried, four non-firing torpedo stowage tubes were installed in the superstructure below the main deck, stacked vertically, two each on either side of the conning tower. In order to access the weapons in these tubes, the boat had to surface and remove a portion of the decking on either side of the deck gun. Small boats stowed there for running sailors ashore for liberty were removed and set in the water. The weapons were extracted from the tubes one by one and winched up to the main deck. They were then placed on a raised loading skid and carefully lowered on an angle through a hatch into the forward torpedo room. This whole process took several hours to complete. The impracticality of spending several hours on the surface in enemy waters moving torpedoes below was lost on the designers. War experience led to the removal of these tubes during the boats' first wartime overhauls. [14]

[13] A Visual Guide to the U.S. Fleet Submarines Part Two: Salmon & Sargo Classes 1936-1945 Johnston, David (2010) Navsource Naval History website, pp.2 and 4

[14] Alden, John D., Commander (USN Ret). The Fleet Submarine in the U.S. Navy: A Design and Construction History (Annapolis, 1979), p.50

[darqen27]

Just a quick question with playing trigger maru 2.5, How can i get away from DDs because once they lock on to me they keep pinging me and depth charging me.

I go Deep really deep past the crush depth but they still come at me and i am at a loss, havent played the campain still on the sub school convoy mission.

I am a silent hunter 4 vet but trigger is too hard.
thanks again

I've evaded every DD group i've been set upon by, I even attack them and have them chase me, the trick is silent running less then 100 rpm(75 or so)about 2-3knots starboard or port evasive @ 150 ft, then turn into a hole in the water by going all stop, and drift down to test depth(250 in my Salmon) works every time, then just wait for them to get board and they'll go away, hope this works for you

[darqen27]

By the way, great mod, I played with RFB and didnt like a few things in it, so i decided to try TMO a couple days ago, and I really haven't gotten off my computer a whole lot lately, love the TMO realism(Gotten used to shooting all 4 torps at one target so I know at least 1 will explode, haha, not so bad with a torp expert, but it still happens frequently)

I play TMO at 83% realism, I think the things i get dinged for are event camera and free camera but everything else is real as can be(Only use the free camera to chase my torps and watch them either bounce or go boom)

All in All Great MOD :yeah:

[gAiNiAc]

I've evaded every DD group i've been set upon by, I even attack them and have them chase me, the trick is silent running less then 100 rpm(75 or so)about 2-3knots starboard or port evasive @ 150 ft, then turn into a hole in the water by going all stop, and drift down to test depth(250 in my Salmon) works every time, then just wait for them to get board and they'll go away, hope this works for you

Ha. you've been VERY lucky then. It'll catch up to you.......

[Zam1]

Absolutely none of the files the game needs to run apparently cannot be found nor the menu files nor the triggers for events or transfer board absolutely nothing I don't understand why can you please can you answer this for me

[darqen27]

Absolutely none of the files the game needs to run apparently cannot be found nor the menu files nor the triggers for events or transfer board absolutely nothing I don't understand why can you please can you answer this for me
Are you trying to add the mod to a campaign you were already running?

[Zam1]

do you mean like I have to delete all the original campainge save games?

[darqen27]

do you mean like I have to delete all the original campainge save games?
Yeah, I had to erase all my old ones from RFB/RSRDC and start a new campaign to get TMO to work right, My sub had no equipment on it, :/
and the crew was glitched

[Zam1]

I actually just tried to delete my saved games and the problem persists

[Zam1]

and its not that I even get to the start page either before it even loads the start page it gives me a ping to say that an error message poped up and its just continuous error messages stating "file not found" and then the file name

[DrBeast]

You don't need to erase old savegames. You do, however, have to start a new campaign. What you're describing sounds like a bad installation of the mod. Make sure the 1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5 folder is in your MODS folder. Um...you are installing with JSGME, right?

[darqen27]

and its not that I even get to the start page either before it even loads the start page it gives me a ping to say that an error message poped up and its just continuous error messages stating "file not found" and then the file name
Wait i had those errors, I had to install the uboat missions to fix it, TMO requires you to have the expansion to work correctly RFB also requires it

[altoso99]

You seem a little confused between the two classes. It was the Salmon-class sub that had the 4 external (storage) tubes, not the Sargo-class. Both classes carried a total of 24 torpedoes (+ 4 externally in early model Salmons). Both classes had 4 forward and 4 aft torpedo tubes. Normal configuration of the after tubes was 4 loaded + 4 reloads for a total of 8 torpedoes aft. The forward torpedo room carried 4 loaded + 12 reloads.

I doubt the developers would have programmed the Salmon's external storage tubes. Details and citations from Wikipedia:

Sorry, but I don't trust the Wiki :03:
I have no confirmation, but in some forum I read a quotation of a patrol report from the Sculpin (Sargo) and she did carried external torpedoes.

I don't think they could carry 24 inside, they have two less tubes than the Tambor. Even if she had the same internal storage space than the later classes, she would be still carying 22 (10 bow torpedo reloads, 4 aft, 8 in the tubes).

Some sources list the Samon/Sargo as carrying 20 torpedoes, and that's my best bet: they only carried 8 forward reloads, 4 aft reloads, 8 in the tubes, and 4 external that weren't used that much (20+4 external torps)
I DOUBT that Salmon/Sargo could carry 12 torpedo reloads in the forward torpedo room, as the later classes only carried 10.

I'm looking for more information regarding this, or a website with info, if someone can steer me in the right direction I would appreciate.

[Jan Kyster]

Have you checked the patrol reports? :hmmm:

[Roger Dodger]

Sorry, but I don't trust the Wiki :03:
I have no confirmation, but in some forum I read a quotation of a patrol report from the Sculpin (Sargo) and she did carried external torpedoes.

I don't think they could carry 24 inside, they have two less tubes than the Tambor. Even if she had the same internal storage space than the later classes, she would be still carying 22 (10 bow torpedo reloads, 4 aft, 8 in the tubes).

Some sources list the Samon/Sargo as carrying 20 torpedoes, and that's my best bet: they only carried 8 forward reloads, 4 aft reloads, 8 in the tubes, and 4 external that weren't used that much (20+4 external torps)
I DOUBT that Salmon/Sargo could carry 12 torpedo reloads in the forward torpedo room, as the later classes only carried 10.

I'm looking for more information regarding this, or a website with info, if someone can steer me in the right direction I would appreciate.

The right direction would be in the original citations I gave you if you 'don't trust wiki'. Your argument about only carrying 22 torpedoes internally for either class makes sense. Loadout wasn't given in the wiki article, only total number of torpedoes.
Here are the citations again:
A Visual Guide to the U.S. Fleet Submarines Part Two: Salmon & Sargo Classes 1936-1945 Johnston, David (2010) Navsource Naval History website, pp.2 and 4 (LINK: http://navsource.org/archives/08/pdf/0829293.pdf ) Lots of great pics of Sargo/Salmons!

"However, her most prominent feature at this time was the addition of two external torpedo tubes in the superstructure forward of the bow planes. Most of the earlier P-class boats had received this modification as an attempt to increase firepower. These tubes were not accessible from the interior of the boat, being loaded prior to going on patrol. The weapons in these tubes could not be maintained by the torpedomen and thus tended to be even less reliable than the already unreliable Mk. 14. They could not be reloaded at sea and were also subject to damage from depth charge attack. Providing little additional benefit, they were not popular with the crew and were removed during the boat***8217;s next overhaul in 1943. The Stingray was the only Salmon/Sargo class boat to receive these tubes. It is not readily apparent whether Snapper and Sturgeon received a similar modification to their fairwaters, although it is likely that they did sometime in 1942."

Alden, John D., Commander (USN Ret). The Fleet Submarine in the U.S. Navy: A Design and Construction History (Annapolis, 1979), p.50 (No Link available)

[igorlikespike]

First of all I would like to thank you Ducimus for all your effort. Before I never liked the SH4 especially copmparing it to SH3 +GWX3. Now it is all different and MUCH more challenging.

However, I have a problem - the Japanese AI is now too strong for me and escorts destroy me every time! I played for 3 days in a row and got killed on every patrol! As an regular SH3.GWX3 player, that never happened to me (97% realism), I always managed to evade some DD attacks and return to port, but not here! Also, the Japanese aircraft are much more accurate than Allied aircraft in GWX! Considering that Japanese ASW on whole was not nearly as developed as was Allied, I have to say that this aspect of TMO is not realistic. Is there any possibility of fixing this?

Good hunting!

[bobdina]

Dargen are you playing with RSDRC or plain TMO. If you are playing with RSRDC it nerfs some of the Japanese escorts. If your playing plain TMO my hat's off to you brother.

[darqen27]

Dargen are you playing with RSDRC or plain TMO. If you are playing with RSRDC it nerfs some of the Japanese escorts. If your playing plain TMO my hat's off to you brother.
Im playing stock TMO, RSRDC removes to many ships, makes it not so fun to play, got Depth charged last night in my new Gar class, lol they hit me twice and flooded my front 2 compartments, but I just played dead while repairing and pumping and got away

[bobdina]

Again hat's off to you brother. Sometimes I can get smashing success but most of the time I'm lucky if I can limp home after being creamed.

[darqen27]

Again hat's off to you brother. Sometimes I can get smashing success but most of the time I'm lucky if I can limp home after being creamed.
I've done 3 long patrols so far, successful on all, 76k tonnage sunk

The warships are impossible to hit with torps thats for sure...

On my 4th patrol right now, so far have 10k sunk on one Nippon that was all alone

[darqen27]

Again hat's off to you brother. Sometimes I can get smashing success but most of the time I'm lucky if I can limp home after being creamed.
Yeah, thanks for the luck bro, :P I think you cursed me, because I just barely limped away from a massive task force I thought i would attack, hit nothing...

Score them 1, me = 0, almost lost it but am on my way back atm, lost one of my torp specialists, the other one is barely alive... as is everyone else in the front half of the boat

[darqen27]

Has anyone else run into the 17th Century Ghost ship?

I found it off the coast of Okinawa, weird think too, cant shoot it, thats for sure, :P

Deck crew reported a warship spotted I was like, OH CRAP!, no sound on the Hydro though, thought, weird, went up to the deck and looked and there it was
:arrgh!:

[Wetton]

I have been playing this superb mod for some weeks now,but i'm facing a problem.When i encounter a merchant i dive and begin plotting intercept course.I then turn my sub to a perpendicular course,estimate speed(my estimations are usually correct) and wait until gyroangle is between 356-000,then i fire at close range(500-800m).90% of the time,torp misses the ship(goes just behind the stern of the ship).It's like the ship accelerates big time the moment it sees the torps.What am i doing wrong?
Thanks in advance!

[Diopos]

Have you opened the tubes before firing the torps?

:hmmm:

.

[Wetton]

Yes it's the first thing i'm doing before setting up the torpedoes.I also play OM,and there i have a hit ratio of 80-90%.

[Diopos]

Are you using the stadimeter? If yes are you turning the Posistion Keeper ON after you input the data or before?

.

[Wetton]

I take 2 to 3 range measurements,so as to estimate speed,i then enter speed range and AOB.Then i turn the PK on and i rely on it then on.
***928;***945;***964;***961;***953;***969;***964;* **940;***954;***953; ***954;***945;***953; ***949;***963;***973;?***922;***945;***955;***942; ***966;***940;***963;***951;!

[Diopos]

I take 2 to 3 range measurements,so as to estimate speed,i then enter speed range and AOB.Then i turn the PK on and i rely on it then on.
***928;***945;***964;***961;***953;***969;***964;* **940;***954;***953; ***954;***945;***953; ***949;***963;***973;?***922;***945;***955;***942; ***966;***940;***963;***951;!

Try turning on the PK first and the inputing the data. The rest of the text I can't read patrida!

:DL

.

[Wetton]

Thanks!Sou egrapsa sta ellhnika(Patriwtaki!Kalh fash!) alla tzifos!ta vgazei san kwdika Morse.
:salute:

[Diopos]

:03:

[darqen27]

Thanks!Sou egrapsa sta ellhnika(Patriwtaki!Kalh fash!) alla tzifos!ta vgazei san kwdika Morse.
:salute:
Can we please keep this forum in english... I wouldnt speak dutch in front of you to someone else while you were standing there... thats just rude
:damn:

[DrBeast]

Using the stadimeter to estimate speed is really hit or miss, for a variety of reasons. The easiest way to get your target's speed is to measure the distance it travels in 3 minutes (or 3 minutes 15 seconds if you're using metric): the distance traveled in yards (or meters) divided by 100 is its speed in knots.

If you want to use a properly working stadimeter, I highly recommend using the Optical Targeting Correction (or OTC) mod. There's a TMO-compatible version for it available here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=181172).

darqen27, you'll have to excuse my fellow Greeks. It's not every day we stumble upon each other in an SH4-related forum :D

[Wetton]

Using the stadimeter to estimate speed is really hit or miss, for a variety of reasons. The easiest way to get your target's speed is to measure the distance it travels in 3 minutes (or 3 minutes 15 seconds if you're using metric): the distance traveled in yards (or meters) divided by 100 is its speed in knots.

If you want to use a properly working stadimeter, I highly recommend using the Optical Targeting Correction (or OTC) mod. There's a TMO-compatible version for it available here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=181172).

darqen27, you'll have to excuse my fellow Greeks. It's not every day we stumble upon each other in an SH4-related forum :D
I am using Optical Targeting Correction!That's why this problem was so...curious.I knew i was taking correct measurements!

[Wetton]

Can we please keep this forum in english... I wouldnt speak dutch in front of you to someone else while you were standing there... thats just rude
:damn:
Darqen27,please excuse me!It's not very common to find a compatriot here!And i wouldn't have any problem with you speaking Dutch in front of me,I recently visited your beautiful country.
:DL

[DrBeast]

I am using Optical Targeting Correction!That's why this problem was so...curious.I knew i was taking correct measurements!

Are you playing with Map Contacts on? If yes, check your PK's estimated course vs the ship's actual course in the Attack Map. It's true that enemy ships have an uncanny ability to accelerate/decelerate, but at this close range you should be hitting them, nevertheless. Also make sure you point your Stadimeter to wherever your Recognition Manual defines as the particular ship's reference point - it's not always the top of the mast, sometimes it's the top of the funnel.

[darqen27]

Using the stadimeter to estimate speed is really hit or miss, for a variety of reasons. The easiest way to get your target's speed is to measure the distance it travels in 3 minutes (or 3 minutes 15 seconds if you're using metric): the distance traveled in yards (or meters) divided by 100 is its speed in knots.

If you want to use a properly working stadimeter, I highly recommend using the Optical Targeting Correction (or OTC) mod. There's a TMO-compatible version for it available here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=181172).

darqen27, you'll have to excuse my fellow Greeks. It's not every day we stumble upon each other in an SH4-related forum :D
:DL

[Wetton]

Are you playing with Map Contacts on? If yes, check your PK's estimated course vs the ship's actual course in the Attack Map. It's true that enemy ships have an uncanny ability to accelerate/decelerate, but at this close range you should be hitting them, nevertheless. Also make sure you point your Stadimeter to wherever your Recognition Manual defines as the particular ship's reference point - it's not always the top of the mast, sometimes it's the top of the funnel.
I play with map contacts off but i've tried this exact thing in the training missions.My range measurements are about 95% correct there.
Could what Diopos says about turning the PK on before inputing the data,make such a difference?

[DrBeast]

I play with map contacts off but i've tried this exact thing in the training missions.My range measurements are about 95% correct there.
Could what Diopos says about turning the PK on before inputing the data,make such a difference?

Worth a try :yep:

Kalo Pasxa (Happy Easter, if it's all Greek to you)!

[Wetton]

Well i just tried once more....same result!:cry:
Torpedo misses the ship by a fraction.Do the ships in TMO accelerate big time?

[darqen27]

Well i just tried once more....same result!:cry:
Torpedo misses the ship by a fraction.Do the ships in TMO accelerate big time?
I've gotten in the habit of saving my games before I shoot a torp, its kinda like cheating but the game itself is a cheat sometimes

[Roger Dodger]

I play with map contacts off but i've tried this exact thing in the training missions.My range measurements are about 95% correct there.
Could what Diopos says about turning the PK on before inputing the data,make such a difference?

If your range measurements (or any other inputs) are only 95% correct, I can almost guarantee a miss (unless you are shooting at something really big). Accuracy is paramount. :up:

I've been using 'Nisgeis' 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit'. Its pretty complex, and there are alot of movements between screens to enter your figures, but very useful nonetheless. I made for myself a step-by-step instruction sheet (3 pages) to keep track of everything. My instruction sheet (last page) specifically says, after entering speed, course, range and AOB, "Turn Position Keeper (KP) ON. The PK will continuously update the TDC. If target changes course or speed, data must be re-entered. Firing Solution is now running." I can't see where the PK would be useful UNTIL all the figures have been input to the TDC.

You didn't mention if you are using the TDC and RADAR, but the MOD (3D TDC) comes with TMO 2.0+. If you would like a copy of my 'instruction sheet' (WORD format), leave me a 'private' message with your email address, and I'll be happy to send you a copy.

[Wetton]

If your range measurements (or any other inputs) are only 95% correct, I can almost guarantee a miss (unless you are shooting at something really big). Accuracy is paramount. :up:

I've been using 'Nisgeis' 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit'. Its pretty complex, and there are alot of movements between screens to enter your figures, but very useful nonetheless. I made for myself a step-by-step instruction sheet (3 pages) to keep track of everything. My instruction sheet (last page) specifically says, after entering speed, course, range and AOB, "Turn Position Keeper (KP) ON. The PK will continuously update the TDC. If target changes course or speed, data must be re-entered. Firing Solution is now running." I can't see where the PK would be useful UNTIL all the figures have been input to the TDC.

You didn't mention if you are using the TDC and RADAR, but the MOD (3D TDC) comes with TMO 2.0+. If you would like a copy of my 'instruction sheet' (WORD format), leave me a 'private' message with your email address, and I'll be happy to send you a copy.
Roger Dodger i try to send you a message but something's going wrong.Have you received it?

[Roger Dodger]

Roger Dodger i try to send you a message but something's going wrong.Have you received it?

Yes, Thrice (that's one more than twice) :DL

Did you get the file through the email I sent to you?

I've been reading Nisgeis thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=170944&highlight=Nisgeis&page=19) and haven't found any mention of CptScurvey's MOD causing any problems with 3D TDC. Has anyone else had conflicts between these two?

[bybyx]

A quick question:
Will it be better to play TMO2.5 with or without RSRD. What are the differences?

[Dignan]

A quick question:
Will it be better to play TMO2.5 with or without RSRD. What are the differences?

TMO has its own customized campaign layer which is better than stock. Most people will still say that TMO's campaign has too frequent ship traffic. RSRDC is the most realistic and has even modeled many historical naval engagements accurately. HHowever, you may find yourself sailing around for days or even weeks looking for ships in RSRDC if you don't know where the traffic historically was.

[bybyx]

I see......
Well :damn::damn:

[Roger Dodger]

A quick question:
Will it be better to play TMO2.5 with or without RSRD. What are the differences?

TMO is mostly environmental in nature and adds LOTS of realism to SH4 - some call it eye candy, others call it immersion. Either way, its what SH4 SHOULD HAVE looked like. As noted above, it also includes its own custom campaign layer. There are also 'certain' changes to the AI Japanese units, and some say the Destroyers are ALL Bungo Petes.

RSRDC overwrites TMO's campaign and adds HISTORICAL ship movements, making SH4 even more realistic. You'll soon find out why so many sub skippers came back from a 60 day patrol without sighting a single target (Just finished one in S-27). TMO adds in a very 'general' sea lanes map with the Radio, so you can plan your patrol to get into a viable position. Later in your campaign you get RADAR, and that is a BIG help in finding targets. RSRDC also has a data/sea folder and seems to adjust the IJN DDs to more reasonable capabilities - still tough, but not impossible. Be sure to install the RSRDC + TMO edition of this mod.

TMO also adds in Nisgeis' 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit. You must have RADAR capability and it only fully works with the Gato/Balao class subs due to matching up the interiors. I don't think you can adjust the GamePlay Options to take off the Map Contacts and switch from Auto to Manual Targeting while in a campaign. Sure adds realism to SH4.

TMO + RSRDC - Don't leave home without them!

Good Hunting

[fitzcarraldo]

TMO is mostly environmental in nature and adds LOTS of realism to SH4 - some call it eye candy, others call it immersion. Either way, its what SH4 SHOULD HAVE looked like. As noted above, it also includes its own custom campaign layer. There are also 'certain' changes to the AI Japanese units, and some say the Destroyers are ALL Bungo Petes.

RSRDC overwrites TMO's campaign and adds HISTORICAL ship movements, making SH4 even more realistic. You'll soon find out why so many sub skippers came back from a 60 day patrol without sighting a single target (Just finished one in S-27). TMO adds in a very 'general' sea lanes map with the Radio, so you can plan your patrol to get into a viable position. Later in your campaign you get RADAR, and that is a BIG help in finding targets. RSRDC also has a data/sea folder and seems to adjust the IJN DDs to more reasonable capabilities - still tough, but not impossible. Be sure to install the RSRDC + TMO edition of this mod.

TMO also adds in Nisgeis' 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit. You must have RADAR capability and it only fully works with the Gato/Balao class subs due to matching up the interiors. I don't think you can adjust the GamePlay Options to take off the Map Contacts and switch from Auto to Manual Targeting while in a campaign. Sure adds realism to SH4.

TMO + RSRDC - Don't leave home without them!

Good Hunting

RSRDC also adds to TMO 25 new ships, the real thing in battles of the Pacific War (within the limitations of SH4, of course), and a realistic campaign (with very difficult localization of enemy ships). If you use the OTC mod of C. Scurvy, you lose the Nisgeis 3D unit, but the additions of OTC - for me - are a must have!

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Roger Dodger]

RSRDC also adds to TMO 25 new ships, the real thing in battles of the Pacific War (within the limitations of SH4, of course), and a realistic campaign (with very difficult localization of enemy ships). If you use the OTC mod of C. Scurvy, you lose the Nisgeis 3D unit, but the additions of OTC - for me - are a must have!

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

Wetton was asking about the Cpt Scurvy vs 3D TDC. Thanx for the answer. How can the 3D TDC be disabled if it won't work with Cpt Scurvy? Its included with TMO. Sounds like an invitation to CDT to me. :hmmm:

[fitzcarraldo]

Wetton was asking about the Cpt Scurvy vs 3D TDC. Thanx for the answer. How can the 3D TDC be disabled if it won't work with Cpt Scurvy? Its included with TMO. Sounds like an invitation to CDT to me. :hmmm:

Simply activate the OTC mod with JSGME, it overwrites the 3D TDC and the other stuff. Once active, OTC eliminates the 3D TDC. Nothing more needed.

If you like the hard gameplay, try OTC. There are versions for TMO alone or TMO plus RSRDC.

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[bybyx]

Another quick one:
Row Sound V9 will work with TMO?

[fitzcarraldo]

Another quick one:
Row Sound V9 will work with TMO?

I use Poul Sounds in SH4. The mod needs some touches (eliminate some sounds). I didn´t try Row Sound. Also, you have the Webster´s sounds and Speech Overhaul sound mods.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[redeyedog]

many thanks for new mod back to sea again !:DL:DL:DL:DL

[darqen27]

Has anyone else run into the 17th Century Ghost ship?

I found it off the coast of Okinawa, weird think too, cant shoot it, thats for sure, :P

Deck crew reported a warship spotted I was like, OH CRAP!, no sound on the Hydro though, thought, weird, went up to the deck and looked and there it was
:arrgh!:
^^^^^

So no one can comment on this?
:damn:

[DrBeast]

^^^^^

So no one can comment on this?
:damn:

Been sighted numerous times. There were a few threads about it recently, such as this (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=125104).

[rean]

Sorry that this has probably been asked before, but how exactly does TMO change the base damage model of the game?

Also thank you to the modders and those helping us new people ease into things.

[Barkhorn1x]

Sorry that this has probably been asked before, but how exactly does TMO change the base damage model of the game?

Also thank you to the modders and those helping us new people ease into things.

Go to the first page of this mighty thread, d/l the TMO 2.5 Manual and start reading. It's all in there.

[rean]

Yes I read the manual but all it says under the ship damage part is that it made them take longer to sink. I was hoping to get a bit more detailed answer. Is damage done by hitpoints? Is it sectional? etc.

[seaplate hitman]

Is there some one can give me some advice to escape the attack from DD . The game version is TMO2.2.
When I encounter a batch of Japanese ships, they were always escorted by three of four IJN DDs. You know the number of DD is huge for me, after launching torpedos, I often dove to 160 meters(Balao),but the depth charges also hit me accurately.It's hard to survive in this situation.
Can you provide some good advice?

[fitzcarraldo]

Is there some one can give me some advice to escape the attack from DD . The game version is TMO2.2.
When I encount a batch of Japan ships, they were always escorted by three of four IJN DDs. You know the number of DD is huge for me, after launching torpedos, I often dove to 160 meters(Balao),but the depth charges also hit me accurately.It's hard to survive in this situation.
Can you provide some good advice?

TMO (20 or 22 or 25 versions) is HARD stuff and very difficult gameplay. If you like Japanese destroyers really agressive, TMO 25 is for you.

Options: you can try RSRDC with TMO 22 or 25 (AI more gently), or the mod Easy AI for TMO.

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[seaplate hitman]

TMO (20 or 22 or 25 versions) is HARD stuff and very difficult gameplay. If you like Japanese destroyers really agressive, TMO 25 is for you.

Options: you can try RSRDC with TMO 22 or 25 (AI more gently), or the mod Easy AI for TMO.

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:
I just want to find a good way under the vision of TMO.
But thank you all the same.

[Roger Dodger]

I just want to find a good way under the vision of TMO.
But thank you all the same.

Early War reports showed that:
"The main lesson was that the Japanese navy was much better than anyone had dreamed. . . The amphibious forces had been escorted by skilled and well-trained units which had kept their charges in shallow waters where submarines found it hard - if not impossible - to get at them. Contrary to popular belief, the Japanese did not have poor night vision; they were excellent night fighters.* [* It was learned later that Japanese night vision was considerably enhanced by huge 16-power binoculars.] Their antisubmarine vessels were equipped with good sonar gear operated in most cases by experts.
There seemed to be only one flaw. The Japanese depth charge was inexplicably inferior. It was not a powerful charge - perhaps no more than 200 or 300 pounds - and it apparently could not be detonated below 150 feet. Although the charges made a fearful racket when they landed close by, US submarine hulls seemed to withstand the blast with amazing resiliency. To escape its full force, the submarines had merely to go deeper than 150 feet - say, to 200 or 250 feet" (Silent Victory, Clay Blair, Jr. page 175)

TMO makes full use of the Japanese expertise of sonar and night vision, but seems to make no adjustments for the (early war) shallow detonating depth charges. If you dive to 300', the depth charges WILL explode at 300'. There is probably no way to change this mid-war, so Ducimus programmed late war specs into TMO, and wished everyone 'Good Luck'. (No offense intended)

You might try shooting at only two targets (three slow-speed torpedoes each) from longer distance (more than 3000 yds, contact exploder only), dive deep and boogie out of the area at high speed. If you insist at taking on a well-escorted (3 or more DDs) from a shorter range, you WILL be located, and you WILL be depth bombed with accuracy. Only your skill at evasion will save you. One DD will stand-off listening and directing the other two. One DD will attack, followed by the other (usually from a different direction, being directed by the first DD).

My own technique is to AVOID such dangerous situations, and report the convoy by radio if possible. (DANGER: the Japs also have very good Radio detecting and triangulation techniques). I prefer to attack lone, unescorted, freighters (safest), or a small convoy with only one escort. You might try to take out the escort first (it can be done), then attack the convoy at your leisure. Safety first! Play the odds!

Good Hunting!

[Laffertytig]

not played SH4 since september and am getting that itch again.

i see theres a 2.5 version of TMO now. is there much added with it or is it just all the previous updated combined?

just wondering how much it will screw with my mod list.

http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/z442/cato151/Untitled-2.jpg

[fitzcarraldo]

not played SH4 since september and am getting that itch again.

i see theres a 2.5 version of TMO now. is there much added with it or is it just all the previous updated combined?

just wondering how much it will screw with my mod list.




Your list is OK with TMO 25. Simply, replace TMO 2 and TMO 22 by TMO 25.

In the first post there are the new stuff (environment, etc.) of TMO 25 version.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[DrBeast]

not played SH4 since september and am getting that itch again.

i see theres a 2.5 version of TMO now. is there much added with it or is it just all the previous updated combined?

just wondering how much it will screw with my mod list.



Welcome back! :arrgh!:

I think Webster's Missing Voices is also redundant.

[Laffertytig]

Your list is OK with TMO 25. Simply, replace TMO 2 and TMO 22 by TMO 25.

In the first post there are the new stuff (environment, etc.) of TMO 25 version.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

i must be blind, i still cant see anything in the 1st post if this thread about whats in 2.5?:hmmm:

[Mikemike47]

i must be blind, i still cant see anything in the 1st post if this thread about whats in 2.5?:hmmm:

Please read the TMO 2.5 manual for updates. They are listed on the first post.

[Roger Dodger]

Using: TMO 2.2 (still) + RSRDC + RSRDC pre-war patrol (aft mount deck gun NOT enabled)

Started this campaign in S-27 (Asiatic Fleet). S-27 had a forward mounted deck gun (and crew) which I used several times to administer the coup de gras to a couple of merchants that refused to sink fast enough to suit me.

Upgraded boat to USS Sculpin (Sargo-class). Original pics of the Sargo-class boats clearly show an aft mounted deck gun, so I was not expecting to get a gun at all, and indeed, I didn't. I only used this boat on one patrol, since I kind of blundered into the Battle of Tassafaronga (night of Nov 30-Dec 1 - Guadalcanal). Fired 4 torps at a 'wounded' Jap DD, surface attack @ 2800 yds, but got spotted as I was firing the 4th torp, and he opened up on me as I was diving doing mucho damage (87%). I can claim two hits with the DD on the way to Davey Jones Locker. Fortunatly, the other DDs were kind of busy with the US fleet to pay much attention to me. I had to stay at Flank speed and under 70' to avoid sinking. Managed to make it to Tulagi, and docked, but could only refuel/rearm. They couldn't do a thing for the massive hull damage. Left Tulagi around 3:00 AM and arrived Brisbane four days later - ran on surface all the way.

On arrival, the Admiral was a little miffed about beating up my boat so bad, but I guess my sinking a Jap DD assauged his ire a bit, and he granted me command of a new Gato-class boat (USS Flying Fish). I gave a Purple Heart Medal to my AA Gunner who was killed in the shelling.

When I went to the sub's equipment screen for RADAR and other needed stuff, NO GUN and no crew space for the gun. Where's my deck gun?

Is there something in the data files that I can change while I'm in port to get the gun back? Could I upgrade to TMO 2.5, without having to re-start the whole campaign to get a gun? I've seen this issue before on this thread, but can't find it now.

Help, please!

[Hylander_1314]

Roger,

I use the aft deckgun mod TMO provides. I too still use 2.2 because of an issue with 2.5 and something to do with a specific campaign messin' things up.

So I ave no forward firing gun, but I'm fine with that.

I can't remember where it was posted, but someone figured out where the deckgun issue was located and figured out the correction to get either bow or aft deckguns working. Just can't remember the post, or the proceedure. I should have bookmarked that one and saved it in my SH4 folder.

[stanger]

Have anyone ever experienced a refit (conning tower upgrade) with TMO 2.5?
I am doing my second career with this version of TMO, and its always giving me new commands; now Im commanding USS Drum with early war CT, Brisbane command, december 1942, next sub available here will be Balao in july '43, CT upgrade should be available just right now (med war CT) as I am after 3 patrols with this boat, or in jan\feb'43 (late wat CT), but no, Ive got Balao instead, which shouldnt be available right now in this flotilla, but is generally available starting 1\1\1943 (see roster and sub upc file).
So, is it possible to get CT upgrade with this mod, and without problems?

[Roger Dodger]

Have anyone ever experienced a refit (conning tower upgrade) with TMO 2.5?
I am doing my second career with this version of TMO, and its always giving me new commands; now Im commanding USS Drum with early war CT, Brisbane command, december 1942, next sub available here will be Balao in july '43, CT upgrade should be available just right now (med war CT) as I am after 3 patrols with this boat, or in jan\feb'43 (late wat CT), but no, Ive got Balao instead, which shouldnt be available right now in this flotilla, but is generally available starting 1\1\1943 (see roster and sub upc file).
So, is it possible to get CT upgrade with this mod, and without problems?

I have no answer to your question, but I do have a question of my own for you: Did you get a Deck Gun for either your Gato or Balao? Look a couple of posts above yours - I still haven't gotten any answer.

Good Hunting!

[stanger]

No, no problems with deck guns here; they are bow mounted on all sub classes, but Gar/Tambor.
What happened to you is similiar to what Ducimus wrote in his manual:

Special note on deck gun placement:
Due to a hardcoded bug in the SH4 game engine, it is not possible to switch locations of the deck gun
once a game has been saved to file. Trying to move the deck gun from fore to aft, or vice versa will
result in the crew member slots disappearing. In order to circumvent this bug and prevent it to
happening during play, the deck guns have been ***8220;fixed***8221; to a location. By default, TMO defaults to
mounting deck guns forward of the conning tower, as this is the most popular placement.
The exception to this are the Tambor, and Gar, which ONLY have an aft mount due to the larger 5***8221;/51
caliber deck gun they can equip. A bow mount for these two classes is not available.
If you prefer your deck gun mounted aft of the conning tower, enable the ***8220;TMO_Aft_deckguns***8221;
alternate mod found in the documentation directory.

But, you didnt mention that you changed deck gun placement mid game or something... It maybe something with upgrades being broken in TMO - in your case caused by starting with S class; or save game corruption ...

You can check your saves: open your last save folder (look for dates) and open file called "ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc" (with notepad, or notepad++) and search for deck gun.
These are examples from my game:

GAR (stern dgun):
[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.WeaponSlot 1]
ID=SternDeckGun
NameDisplayable=Aft Deck Gun Mount
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=NULL
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkBunker=GunsAmmoBunker
ExternalNodeName3D=M02
ExternalObjectName3D=NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D=-1

IDLinkWeaponLoaded=3in50calUS, NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.WeaponSlot 1.Weapon]
ID=3in50calUS
NameDisplayable=3"/50 Caliber Cannon
WeaponInterval=1941-12-01, 1942-12-01
WeaponSlotType=NULL
AmmoTypesAccepted=3inAPUS,3inHEUS
AmmoTypeLoaded=NULL
AmmoMagazineSize=1
AmmoMagazineRemaining=0
WeaponCrewMembersSlots=7
ExternalLinkName3D=3_50_Soclu
FunctionalType=WpCannon
Hitpoints=100.000000
EfficiencyHumanFactor=0.000000
EfficiencyMechanicFactor=1.000000
Efficiency=0.000000
Damage=0.000000
DamageHitpointsConsumed=0.000000
RemainingRepairTime=0000-00-00 00:00:00
DamageDescription1=NULL,0,0.2,0,1,1,Jam,0,0,NULL,1 ,0.3,0.187355
DamageDescription2=NULL,0,1,0,0.5,1,Chamber Explosion,50,5,NULL,1,2,13.4679

While on my Gato save this section look the same except:

IDLinkWeaponLoaded=NULL, NULL

- because Gato has bow mounted deck gun:

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.WeaponSlot 1]
ID=BowDeckGun
NameDisplayable=Fore Deck Gun Mount
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=NULL
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkBunker=GunsAmmoBunker
ExternalNodeName3D=M01
ExternalObjectName3D=NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D=-1
IDLinkWeaponLoaded=4in50calUS, NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.WeaponSlot 1.Weapon]
ID=4in50calUS
NameDisplayable=4"/50 Caliber Cannon
WeaponInterval=1900-01-01, 1999-12-31
WeaponSlotType=NULL
AmmoTypesAccepted=4inAPUS
AmmoTypeLoaded=NULL
AmmoMagazineSize=1
AmmoMagazineRemaining=0
WeaponCrewMembersSlots=7
ExternalLinkName3D=4_50_soclu
FunctionalType=WpCannon
Hitpoints=100.000000
EfficiencyHumanFactor=0.000000
EfficiencyMechanicFactor=1.000000
Efficiency=0.000000
Damage=0.000000
DamageHitpointsConsumed=0.000000
RemainingRepairTime=0000-00-00 00:00:00
DamageDescription1=NULL,0,0.2,0,1,1,Jam,0,0,NULL,1 ,0.3,0.395235
DamageDescription2=NULL,0,1,0,0.5,1,Chamber Explosion,50,5,NULL,1,2,5.85215

Gar has this here:

IDLinkWeaponLoaded=NULL, NULL

So, in your save, if you have no gun at all, those two sections (SternDeckGun and BowDeckGun) should have "IDLinkWeaponLoaded=NULL, NULL".
You can edit it to add deck gun to your boat, but you will have to add crew to it too, and thats seems more complicated ... (Should I go on? :D )

Just check your file if it has these sections it (should be there):
aft dgun:
Search "Compartment 8" (11 hits in 1 files)
F:\$save\SH4\data\cfg\SaveGames\00000038\ActiveUse rPlayerUnits.upc (11 hits)
Line 7923: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8]
Line 7963: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.WeaponSlot 1]
Line 7975: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.EquipmentSlot 1]
Line 7985: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.EquipmentSlot 1.Equipment]
Line 8003: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 1]
Line 8015: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 2]
Line 8027: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 3]
Line 8039: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 4]
Line 8051: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 5]
Line 8063: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 6]
Line 8075: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 7]

and bow dgun:

Search "compartment 9" (22 hits in 1 files)
F:\$save\SH4\data\cfg\SaveGames\00000038\ActiveUse rPlayerUnits.upc (22 hits)
Line 8087: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9]
Line 8127: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.WeaponSlot 1]
Line 8139: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.WeaponSlot 1.Weapon]
Line 8161: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.EquipmentSlot 1]
Line 8171: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.EquipmentSlot 1.Equipment]
Line 8190: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.EquipmentSlot 2]
Line 8200: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 1]
Line 8212: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 2]
Line 8224: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 3]
Line 8236: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 4]
Line 8248: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 5]
Line 8260: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 5.CrewMember]
Line 8302: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 5.CrewMember.Rank]
Line 8319: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 5.CrewMember.Rank.CrewMember3D]
Line 8338: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 6]
Line 8350: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 6.CrewMember]
Line 8392: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 6.CrewMember.Rank]
Line 8409: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 6.CrewMember.Rank.CrewMember3D]
Line 8428: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 7]
Line 8440: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 7.CrewMember]
Line 8482: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 7.CrewMember.Rank]
Line 8499: [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 7.CrewMember.Rank.CrewMember3D]


If its all there then we're lucky and need only to add the gun in its rightful place, so change secion9' IDLinkWeaponLoaded=NULL, NULL (look above).

Edit: If you decide to do all this, do this to in-base save.

[Roger Dodger]

No, no problems with deck guns here; they are bow mounted on all sub classes, but Gar/Tambor.

But, you didnt mention that you changed deck gun placement mid game or something... It maybe something with upgrades being broken in TMO - in your case caused by starting with S class; or save game corruption ...

You can check your saves: open your last save folder (look for dates) and open file called "ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc" (with notepad, or notepad++) and search for deck gun.
These are examples from my game:

GAR (stern dgun):

While on my Gato save this section look the same except:

IDLinkWeaponLoaded=NULL, NULL

- because Gato has bow mounted deck gun:

Gar has this here:

IDLinkWeaponLoaded=NULL, NULL

So, in your save, if you have no gun at all, those two sections (SternDeckGun and BowDeckGun) should have "IDLinkWeaponLoaded=NULL, NULL".
You can edit it to add deck gun to your boat, but you will have to add crew to it too, and thats seems more complicated ... (Should I go on? :D )

Just check your file if it has these sections it (should be there):
aft dgun:
Search "Compartment 8" (11 hits in 1 files)
F:\$save\SH4\data\cfg\SaveGames\00000038\ActiveUse rPlayerUnits.upc (11 hits)


and bow dgun:

Search "compartment 9" (22 hits in 1 files)
F:\$save\SH4\data\cfg\SaveGames\00000038\ActiveUse rPlayerUnits.upc (22 hits)


If its all there then we're lucky and need only to add the gun in its rightful place, so change secion9' IDLinkWeaponLoaded=NULL, NULL (look above).

Edit: If you decide to do all this, do this to in-base save.

Thank you! That's exactly the info I needed. I'll print it all out, compare it to what I have, make changes as necessary, test it, and let you know how it came out. It was the "WHERE" the files were located that I really needed to know first. "WHAT" to change will now be really helpful. Again, I had NOT ENABLED the Aft Deck Mount. I had not had this problem before Ducimus 'fixed' the Gar/Tambor class. I remember playing a campaign where I had one sub with a Forward mounted gun, the next had an After mounted gun, and the next switched back to Forward mount without a hitch.

Thanx again! Be back atcha.

[Roger Dodger]

This is all the info my gamesave shows pertaining to deck guns. NOTE: There is only Compartment 8, no Compartment 9. Everything for the Stern Deck Gun has been saved as Compartment 7 (below)

My gamesave is so messed up, I don't know how to unscramble it. Maybe I'll just have to do the rest of the war without a deck gun.

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8]
ID=GatoGunB
CompartmentType=2
FunctionalType=ArtilleryRoom
NameDisplayable=Fore Gun Deck
Type=NULL
MechanicalCoef=0.500000
ElectricsCoef=0.500000
GunsCoef=0.200000
WatchmanCoef=0.500000
WatchStandingCoef=0.048000
MaintenanceCoef=0.014400
RepairsCoef=0.072000
ReloadingweaponCoef=0.072000
SleepCoef=-0.120000
LeadersSlots=0
CrewMembersSlots=0
EffciencyDenominator=2
EffciencyDenominatorBS=2
Hitpoints=200.000000
CrewExposure=0.700000
EquipmentsExposure=0.100000
WeaponsExposure=0.100000
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D=43
StatusActive=No
EfficiencyHumanFactor=1.000000
EfficiencyMechanicFactor=1.000000
Efficiency=0.000000
Damage=0.000000
DamageHitpointsConsumed=0.000000
RemainingRepairTime=0000-00-00 00:00:00
FltDamage=0.000000
CriticalFlotation=1.000000
FloodingLevel=0.000000
FloodingTime=0000-00-00 00:00:00
FloodingSpeed=0.000000
DamageDescription1=NULL,0,0.2,0,1,1,Minor damage,0,0,NULL,0,0.2,0.212158
DamageDescription2=NULL,0.2,0.6,0,1,1,Medium damage,0,0,NULL,0,0.2,0.537745
DamageDescription3=NULL,0.6,1,0,1,1,Heavy damage,0,0,NULL,0,0.2,0.872138

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.WeaponSlot 1]
ID=BowDeckGun
NameDisplayable=Fore Deck Gun Mount
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=NULL
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkBunker=GunsAmmoBunker
ExternalNodeName3D=M01
ExternalObjectName3D=NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D=-1
IDLinkWeaponLoaded=NULL, NULL


[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 1]
ID=CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C1
NameDisplayable=Deck Gun Crew
Type=Crewman
IDLinkCrewMemberLoaded=NULL
WatchCrewMemberSlot3D=WM2@slot_M01
BattleStationsCrewMemberSlot3D=WM2@slot_M01
WatchAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects=NULL
WatchAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects=NULL
BattleAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects=NULL
BattleAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects=NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 2]
ID=CrewMemberSlot_DGun2L
NameDisplayable=Deck Gun Crew
Type=Crewman
IDLinkCrewMemberLoaded=NULL
WatchCrewMemberSlot3D=WM1@slot_M01
BattleStationsCrewMemberSlot3D=WM1@slot_M01
WatchAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects=NULL
WatchAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects=NULL
BattleAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects=NULL
BattleAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects=NULL

**********************

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 7.WeaponSlot 1]
ID=SternDeckGun
NameDisplayable=Aft Deck Gun Mount
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=NULL
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkBunker=GunsAmmoBunker
ExternalNodeName3D=M02
ExternalObjectName3D=NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D=-1
IDLinkWeaponLoaded=NULL, NULL

[stanger]

So, do this:

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.WeaponSlot 1]
IDLinkWeaponLoaded=4in50calUS, NULL //for 4.50 caliber DG or:
IDLinkWeaponLoaded=3in50calUS, NULL //for 3.50 DG;

right after it paste this for 4.50 DG:

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.WeaponSlot 1.Weapon]
ID=4in50calUS
NameDisplayable=4"/50 Caliber Cannon
WeaponInterval=1900-01-01, 1999-12-31
WeaponSlotType=NULL
AmmoTypesAccepted=4inAPUS
AmmoTypeLoaded=NULL
AmmoMagazineSize=1
AmmoMagazineRemaining=0
WeaponCrewMembersSlots=7
ExternalLinkName3D=4_50_soclu
FunctionalType=WpCannon
Hitpoints=100.000000
EfficiencyHumanFactor=0.342513
EfficiencyMechanicFactor=1.000000
Efficiency=0.342513
Damage=0.000000
DamageHitpointsConsumed=0.000000
RemainingRepairTime=0000-00-00 00:00:00
DamageDescription1=NULL,0,0.2,0,1,1,Jam,0,0,NULL,1 ,0.3,0.292904
DamageDescription2=NULL,0,1,0,0.5,1,Chamber Explosion,50,5,NULL,1,2,6.7174

or this for 3.50 DG:

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.WeaponSlot 1.Weapon]
ID=3in50calUS
NameDisplayable=3"/50 Caliber Cannon
WeaponInterval=1941-12-01, 1942-12-01
WeaponSlotType=NULL
AmmoTypesAccepted=3inAPUS,3inHEUS
AmmoTypeLoaded=NULL
AmmoMagazineSize=1
AmmoMagazineRemaining=0
WeaponCrewMembersSlots=7
ExternalLinkName3D=3_50_Soclu
FunctionalType=WpCannon
Hitpoints=100.000000
EfficiencyHumanFactor=0.000000
EfficiencyMechanicFactor=1.000000
Efficiency=0.000000
Damage=0.000000
DamageHitpointsConsumed=0.000000
RemainingRepairTime=0000-00-00 00:00:00
DamageDescription1=NULL,0,0.2,0,1,1,Jam,0,0,NULL,1 ,0.3,0.187355
DamageDescription2=NULL,0,1,0,0.5,1,Chamber Explosion,50,5,NULL,1,2,13.4679

Now, that difference in compartment numbering may come from different TMO versions: 2.5 vs 2.2; also - as you can see I have 7 crew slots for deck gun, I don't know if it was like this in TMO 2.2, so we need to find this out and then add those slots to your save file.

[Sidekikd34]

Have anyone ever experienced a refit (conning tower upgrade) with TMO 2.5?
I am doing my second career with this version of TMO, and its always giving me new commands; now Im commanding USS Drum with early war CT, Brisbane command, december 1942, next sub available here will be Balao in july '43, CT upgrade should be available just right now (med war CT) as I am after 3 patrols with this boat, or in jan\feb'43 (late wat CT), but no, Ive got Balao instead, which shouldnt be available right now in this flotilla, but is generally available starting 1\1\1943 (see roster and sub upc file).
So, is it possible to get CT upgrade with this mod, and without problems?

SH4 does not seem to distinguish between refits and boat upgrades. We've been discussing this in another thread, and Ducimus mentioned it in the TMO manual, but it's a hard-coded thing, and you either take the upgrade/refit/promotion, or decline it, there's no selection of refit instead of replacement.

[stanger]

Yeah, I know that, but I found it a little bit suspicious that I didnt get a refit in one and a half of career; its not the first time I play SH4, I play it since 2007, but this refit issue wasnt such pronounced to get bothered too much by it. It makes me think, that a modder should not tweak availability dates too much, cause it seems with stock game it was more balanced (flotillas - subs - upgrades).

[Sidekikd34]

Yeah, I know that, but I found it a little bit suspicious that I didnt get a refit in one and a half of career; its not the first time I play SH4, I play it since 2007, but this refit issue wasnt such pronounced to get bothered too much by it. It makes me think, that a modder should not tweak availability dates too much, cause it seems with stock game it was more balanced (flotillas - subs - upgrades).

I found the same exact thing, getting upgraded to Balao before it exists in game. I even removed it from all flotillas, and deleted the missions for it in all flotillas, until after the availability dates, and it still would give me a Balao in Sept 42, when it doesn't come out until Jan 43...

It doesn't seem like it could be the mod's fault, but I'm not sure. Even Ducimus hasn't got it figured out AFAIK.

[Hylander_1314]

You are aware of the "New Construction" option? You can get a Gato or Baloa before the official release time, but you get transfered to Mare Island on West Coast by Frisco.

[Sidekikd34]

You are aware of the "New Construction" option? You can get a Gato or Baloa before the official release time, but you get transfered to Mare Island on West Coast by Frisco.

Actually, the boats "exist" in their cfg files as of Jan 1 of 43/44, but the Pearl flotilla does not accept them until March 1. The sea trials are set up in the period in between. We're talking about getting upgraded to Balao in 42, way before any file should even know it exists.

[Hylander_1314]

This is from the TMO Manual pg. 20

7. New Construction, 42: (14 Feb42 ) It was not uncommon for an executive officer on one submarine, to be detached from his current boat, and be sent back to the United States to commission a new boat as it's captain. This was more or less called, “being sent to new construction”. Selecting this option will start you off near Mare Island, California. Where your newly commissioned Gato class submarine is to undergo sea trials before transferring to the Pacific Fleet as a front line combat submarine. If you absolutely must have a Gato class as early in the war as possible, this is an excellent option.

8. New Construction 43 . (14Feb43) This is the same as New Construction 42, except that your commissioning a Balao class submarine instead of a Gato. If you absolutely must have a Balao class as early in the war as possible, this is an excellent option.

I have gotten offered boats "early", but not that early. If I accept a Gato early, or a Balao early, I get the transfer to California, but I stopped doing that, as I like to play from the Asiatic Fleet, so after retreating to Fremantle, it takes even longer to get the better boats than even Peral, and if I take a better boat before they show up there, I get sent to Pearl.

So what I do, is save the game about 30 miles out from port. so if I don't like the outcome of an automatic transfer, I can reload the game, and just decline the offer.

Sorry you're experiencing that. I haven't had it happen that early for a Balao boat. Maybe start saving before ending your patrol, so if it happens in the future, you can reload the game and decline an upgrade.

[Andayle]

Hi all,

It's been a long time since I have played SH4, today I installed it with newest version of TMO, last version I used was 1.7 so it was some time ago. It's all working fine apart from one small thing. I have chosen to start with the new construction campaign and I am currently on the part of the first sea trials where it asks me to complete a deep dive test. I can't find a key command or a click command to put the dive planes into deep dive setting. I can press D and it will dive to safety depth but wont go past it. I have tried CTRL+D and SHIFT+D to no avail. Anyone have any ideas? I need to dive to 500ft so I cant even use the depth gauge because that only goes to 450 lol.

Thanks for any help on this.

[Andayle]

Hmm I just been through the manual and it says that there is a clickable depth gauge in the conning tower and the control room. I have found the conning tower one but it's not clickable and the control room gauge is nowhere to be found. Am I experiencing a bug or is my installation not correct? :(

[Andayle]

Ok Problem solved, I found the depth gauge in the control room that is clickable lol, looks like the conning tower one is a bug.

[Hylander_1314]

It's been switched between the control room, and the conning tower.

[Sidekikd34]

So what I do, is save the game about 30 miles out from port. so if I don't like the outcome of an automatic transfer, I can reload the game, and just decline the offer.

Sorry you're experiencing that. I haven't had it happen that early for a Balao boat. Maybe start saving before ending your patrol, so if it happens in the future, you can reload the game and decline an upgrade.


Yeah, that's pretty much my strategy. I've been trying to find how to stop the game offering boats that can't exist, though.

[Hylander_1314]

Yeah, that's pretty much my strategy. I've been trying to find how to stop the game offering boats that can't exist, though.


That's why i started saving before ending patrols. If by chance a newer class boat is offerred too soon for my liking, I can decline it.

Didn't care for the whole west coast thing, and starting out from Mare Island, and then cruising across the Pacific forever. But that's only because I prefer to play from the Asiatic Fleet side of it. And every now and then, transferring over to Brisbane.

I wonder though, if there is a way to make your time in port longer when you do accept a new boat. :hmmm:

[Roger Dodger]

My Gato class boat (USS Flying Fish) is presently in port (Brisbane). The Save file is the OnEnteringPort Auto-savefile.

Can I upgrade the present TMO v2.2 to TMO v2.5 while in port and continue on with my campaign, or will I have to start a whole new campaign?

Present installed MODS:
TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2
TMO_Update_20_to_22
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
RSRDC_TMO_Pre Pearl Harbor Career Start
Crew Rank Fix - RSRDC
Radar and TDC Training Missions v1.02

I'll be re-installing all the RSRDC mods, but not the TDC Training Missions.

Good Hunting!

[stanger]

Dont have definitive answer, but you can try. Some changes done to TMO25 may not "kick in" for your old saves; I'm thinking about changes (if any) to upc files: the game takes some of them, or information contained within and stores it in your docs folder (with your saves - 'upc initial" and such); I think the game doesnt update them - doesnt check main game folder for any changes - as far as I know. You may end with TMO25 mixed with TMO2.2 equipment availability dates and so on; or you may end up with your boat with no deck gun or wrong radar position on CT ;)

[Roger Dodger]

Dont have definitive answer, but you can try. Some changes done to TMO25 may not "kick in" for your old saves; I'm thinking about changes (if any) to upc files: the game takes some of them, or information contained within and stores it in your docs folder (with your saves - 'upc initial" and such); I think the game doesnt update them - doesnt check main game folder for any changes - as far as I know. You may end with TMO25 mixed with TMO2.2 equipment availability dates and so on; or you may end up with your boat with no deck gun or wrong radar position on CT ;)

Well, I'll give it a try. The worst I can do is trash the game completely :wah:. The best I can hope for is that the upgrade works and fixes some problems I have been having for quite some time :yeah: - like not getting a deck gun.

I fooled around with the gamesave file, and finally got a Forward Deck Gun, but only two crew for it, even though I included slots for a seven member team. Maybe upgrading to TMO 2.5 will do it.

If it doesn't, I can always erase all my gamesaves and start a new campaign. :damn:

[Hylander_1314]

Whenever you upgrade a mod like TMO, it is adviseable to at least delete the SH4 folder in your documents folder.

[Roger Dodger]

Whenever you upgrade a mod like TMO, it is adviseable to at least delete the SH4 folder in your documents folder.

I agree, except that would mean I would have to start an all new campaign, which I like to avoid. Also, wouldn't deleting the SH4 folder from the My Documents folder require a full re-install of the game? I should think that deleting all the files and subfolders in the My Documents\SH4\data\cfg\(RichSaveGames and SaveGames and UPCInitial and UserPlayerContextGE folders) would be better, otherwise the game might not know where to put the SaveGames.

Here is what I did before the upgrade to the GameSave files in an effort to get a Deck Gun. It resulted in a Deck Gun, but only two Deck Gun Crew. Upgrading to TMO 2.5 DOES NOT rewrite the .upc files in the GameSave folder. I'll probably make the deletions and start a new Campaign AFTER I return from patrol. Notes are highlighted:



Comparing my SaveGames\00000020\ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc (from last nights patrol near Rabaul) to the UPCInitial file shows the exact same entries
************************************************** *******************
START MY DOCUMENTS\SH4\DATA\CFG\UPCInitial\ActiveUserPlayer Units.upc
************************************************** *******************
[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Gato
NameDisplayable=Gato
UnitName=USS Flying Fish (SS-229)
UpgradeClass=2
Type=Gato

***************************

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8]
ID=GatoGunB
CompartmentType=2
FunctionalType=ArtilleryRoom
NameDisplayable=Fore Gun Deck

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8]
ID=GatoGunB
CompartmentType=2
FunctionalType=ArtilleryRoom
NameDisplayable=Fore Gun Deck
. . .
IDLinkWeaponLoaded=4in50calUS, NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.WeaponSlot 1.Weapon]
ID=4in50calUS
NameDisplayable=4"/50 Caliber Cannon
. . .
WeaponCrewMembersSlots=7

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 1]
ID=CrewMemberSlot_DGun2L
NameDisplayable=Deck Gun Leader
Type=Leader

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 1.CrewMember]
ID=POWatch
NameDisplayable=Harley C. Henry

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 1.CrewMember.Rank]
ID=CPO
Level=7
TreeType=USNavy
NameDisplayable=Chief Petty Officer

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 1.CrewMember.Rank.CrewMember3D]
ID=ClothingCPOs

******************************
CrewMemberSlot 2 has similar specs all filled out

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 2]
ID=CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C1
NameDisplayable=Deck Gun Crew
Type=Crewman

******************************
This is all that shows up for CrewMemberSlots 3 to 7

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 3]
ID=CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C2
NameDisplayable=Deck Gun Crew
Type=Crewman
IDLinkCrewMemberLoaded=NULL
WatchCrewMemberSlot3D=WM2@slot_M01
BattleStationsCrewMemberSlot3D=WM2@slot_M01
WatchAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects=NULL
WatchAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects=NULL
BattleAccessoriesForAdding3DObjects=NULL
BattleAccessoriesForSubtracting3DObjects=NULL

*** END OF [UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlots 3-7]

*******************************

[UserPlayerUnit 1.UpgradePackSlot 5]
ID=UpgDeckGun
NameDisplayable=Deck Gun
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=USDeckGunBasicBow,USDeckGunAdvBow
UserCustomizable=Yes
IDLinkUpgradePackSlots=BowDeckGun,SternDeckGun
CurrentUpgradePack=Upack4in50calDGBow
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsLoaded=NULL

*********************************

[UserPlayerUnit 1.FunctionalSubsystem 28]
ID=DeckGun1
NameDisplayable=Bow Deck Gun
FunctionalType=WeaponMainCannon
IDLinkFunctionalSubsystemSlots=BowDeckGun,1

*********************************

[UserPlayerUnit 1.FunctionalSubsystem 36]
ID=CrewDeckGun
NameDisplayable=Deck Gun
FunctionalType=CrewMembersGrouping
IDLinkFunctionalSubsystemSlots=CrewMemberSlot_DGun L,0,CrewMemberSlot_DGunC1,0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2L, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C1,0

[UserPlayerUnit 1.FunctionalSubsystem 37]
ID=CrewDamage
NameDisplayable=Damage Repair Team
FunctionalType=CrewMembersGrouping
IDLinkFunctionalSubsystemSlots=CrewMemberSlot_Dama geL1,0,CrewMemberSlot_DamageC1,0,CrewMemberSlot_Da mageC2,0,CrewMemberSlot_DamageC3,0,CrewMemberSlot_ DamageC4,0,CrewMemberSlot_DamageC5,0,CrewMemberSlo t_DamageC6,0,CrewMemberSlot_DamageC7,0,CrewMemberS lot_DamageC8,0,CrewMemberSlot_DamageC9,0

***********************************

*** END MY DOCUMENTS\SH4\DATA\CFG\UPCInitial\ActiveUserPlayer Units.upc ***

***********************************
Note the difference in FunctionalSubsystem 36 (Deck Gun) configuration of a SaveGame file from August, 2010 (Also a Gato). The difference in numbering was from the inclusion of Hogan's Alley in the older file, which also made the Foreward Deck Gun Compartment 9 and Functional Subsystem 37 instead of the usual Compartment 8, Functional Subsystem 36. TMO 2.5 also makes significant changes to the Data\Submarine\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato.upc file with the addition of the After Battery Compartment (Old Hogan's Alley?) which were, apparently, not picked up in the GameSave files after upgrading. When I rewrote the GameSave .upc file, I did not include all of the CrewMemberSlots as shown below - probably the reason I only got two active crew members for the Deck Gun Team. There are sure alot of interrelated files in different parts in the .upc GameSave.

[UserPlayerUnit 1.FunctionalSubsystem 37]
ID=CrewDeckGun
NameDisplayable=Deck Gun
FunctionalType=CrewMembersGrouping
IDLinkFunctionalSubsystemSlots=CrewMemberSlot_DGun L,0,CrewMemberSlot_DGunC1,0,CrewMemberSlot_DGunC2, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGunC3,0,CrewMemberSlot_DGunC4,0, CrewMemberSlot_DGunC5,0,CrewMemberSlot_DGunC6,0,Cr ewMemberSlot_DGun2L,0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C1,0,Cre wMemberSlot_DGun2C2,0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C3,0,Cre wMemberSlot_DGun2C4,0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C5,0,Cre wMemberSlot_DGun2C6,0

[stanger]

wouldn't deleting the SH4 folder from the My Documents folder require a full re-install of the game? I should think that deleting all the files and subfolders in the My Documents\SH4\data\cfg\(RichSaveGames and SaveGames and UPCInitial and UserPlayerContextGE folders) would be better, otherwise the game might not know where to put the SaveGames.

Why would it not know? It was the game who created my documents SH4 folder in the first place :) Don't worry, the game will recreate this folder, but you will need to adjust game settings and , of course, start new career.
But I wonder what will happen if you do delete all contents of those folders you mentioned?
1. The game will recreate them - and they will be up to date with TMO25;
2. Your saves will not load/get corrupted/the game will crash when loading such save;
3.All of the above :)
There is also a file called 'career progress' or something - I wouldnt delete that; unless your career progress is also saved in that rich save game, but I doubt it...
Too much hassle.

[Roger Dodger]

Why would it not know? It was the game who created my documents SH4 folder in the first place :) Don't worry, the game will recreate this folder, but you will need to adjust game settings and , of course, start new career.
But I wonder what will happen if you do delete all contents of those folders you mentioned?
1. The game will recreate them - and they will be up to date with TMO25;
2. Your saves will not load/get corrupted/the game will crash when loading such save;
3.All of the above :)
There is also a file called 'career progress' or something - I wouldnt delete that; unless your career progress is also saved in that rich save game, but I doubt it...
Too much hassle.

Why would it not know? It was the game who created my documents SH4 folder in the first place.
I think the game installs the SH4 folder, and related sub-folders during the game install. It 'may' re-install them when attempting to save a game or starting a new campaign, OR it 'may not', meaning I just HOSED my game. :damn: Its more of a hassle to completely re-install the whole game. Just in case, I think I'll try my way first. :06: BTW, deleting the SH4 folder (with their related sub-folders) will also delete ALL SaveGame files at the same time, so there won't be anything to try to load that will muck up the game.

I'll still wait until AFTER I finish my present patrol. I just sank a fat freighter AND a Light Cruiser near Rabaul, and haven't even gotten to my patrol area yet.

Good Hunting!

[Hylander_1314]

Actually, it creates the My Document folder after the install, and you first start the game. So if you delete the SH4 folder in My Documents, all you will lose is your current game settings, and any campaigns you may have.

[Roger Dodger]

Actually, it creates the My Document folder after the install, and you first start the game. So if you delete the SH4 folder in My Documents, all you will lose is your current game settings, and any campaigns you may have.

Thanx, Hylander, that's good to know. I wasn't sure about 'when' the SH4 folder was created, so didn't want to take any unnecessary chances. I did know not to try to use previous savegames since they probably wouldn't be compatible.

Good Hunting!

[Hylander_1314]

You're welcome. Sometimes you can just delete that folder if you're having issues, or pull a mod, and put a different one in. sometimes you have to do a re-install because of residual files from the previous mod. Just depends on what you're doing.

[CapnScurvy]

The SH4 folder is checked and/or created every time the game is run; and each time a new mission is started during a campaign. Although, the creation of a new mission only checks and saves some of the game files; the default options like game screen resolution, or which unit of measurement you choose are set after the initial creation of the SH4 folder. These options "carry over" to any new mission save point.

You could delete the SH4 file completely each time you return to Windows and the game will create it again and reinstate it's default settings the next time you start the game. As Highlander states, you'll lose any saved game points you may have made from an earlier game, but really, that's what you want if you've added a mod that has any UPC data modifications in it. Going back to an older saved game point that doesn't have the current UPC instructions is going to create a huge headache for the game that's expecting the files to be the same as it was when the saved point was made.

That's why modders state...."install this mod when in port". The game will create a new UPC set of instructions with a new patrol mission. If the UPC data folder have changes in them (from the installation of a new mod), the new saved point made from the start of a mission will have the changes included and "all is right with the world". If you go back to an older saved point, CTD's can be the out come, or at best, strange things will start to occur.

The UPC files are what creates the problems for a saved game point. Having them changed in mid game gets the games panties in a wad and you'll have trouble when it expects to read one thing, but it finds something else.

[bandit484]

This combination of mods is incredible. I'm reading Clay Blair's Silent Victory books and it coresponds so well with this simulation. Well done Mr. Ducimus & Mr. Lurker i commend you both on a superb work of art!:salute::salute::salute::salute:

[bandit484]

It sure would be cool if we Captains had a way of choosing between refueling or reloading torpedoes or both when we go to a port for replenishment! Does anyone else feel the same way as i do?:hmmm::hmmm::hmmm::hmmm:

[Roger Dodger]

You're welcome. Sometimes you can just delete that folder if you're having issues, or pull a mod, and put a different one in. sometimes you have to do a re-install because of residual files from the previous mod. Just depends on what you're doing.

The SH4 folder is checked and/or created every time the game is run; and each time a new mission is started during a campaign. Although, the creation of a new mission only checks and saves some of the game files; the default options like game screen resolution, or which unit of measurement you choose are set after the initial creation of the SH4 folder. These options "carry over" to any new mission save point.

You could delete the SH4 file completely each time you return to Windows and the game will create it again and reinstate it's default settings the next time you start the game. As Highlander states, you'll lose any saved game points you may have made from an earlier game, but really, that's what you want if you've added a mod that has any UPC data modifications in it. Going back to an older saved game point that doesn't have the current UPC instructions is going to create a huge headache for the game that's expecting the files to be the same as it was when the saved point was made.

That's why modders state...."install this mod when in port". The game will create a new UPC set of instructions with a new patrol mission. If the UPC data folder have changes in them (from the installation of a new mod), the new saved point made from the start of a mission will have the changes included and "all is right with the world". If you go back to an older saved point, CTD's can be the out come, or at best, strange things will start to occur.

The UPC files are what creates the problems for a saved game point. Having them changed in mid game gets the games panties in a wad and you'll have trouble when it expects to read one thing, but it finds something else.

Thanx to both of you. Very informative and understandable.

It seems that if a major mod (like TMO) makes changes to the .upc files in the data\Submarine\NSS_[SubClass]\ [the PlayerUnits], the game doesn't always pick them up. A new campaign must be started for the new mods to affect the player's subs. Changes to the .upc files for the environment or AI units aren't saved, and take effect when next encountered. Minor mods, therefore can be enabled in port, and take effect next patrol.

There are only two kinds of ships: Submarines and TARGETS!

[KING111]

thanks m8:yeah:

[dilleer]

Hi
I need an opinion about this situation:
I have installed stock sh 4 1.5 and via JSGME:
-TMO 2.5
-TMO PATCH
-LATEST OTC
-OTC REALISTIC SCOPES (proper version for my resolution 1440x900)
-OTC METRIC TOOLS

I started a new campaign in Asiatic Fleet at dec 1941
On my first patrol encauntered about 100 nm on south of Formosa a convoy of 5-8 cargo ships along with 4 kuma light cruisers and 4 dd escort. Naturally i engaged and sink 1 kuma and and 1 merchant. ;)
After i escaped from dd's, encauntered, in the same area a huge tanker and a while later another, even larger convoy
of merchants and warships contains two kongo battleships! and heavy dd escorts.I sink one of Kongo of course but is this normal to meet such a large convoys, where one contains two Kongo battleships at the beggining of the war with this set of mods?

[fitzcarraldo]

Hi
I need an opinion about this situation:
I have installed stock sh 4 1.5 and via JSGME:
-TMO 2.5
-TMO PATCH
-LATEST OTC
-OTC REALISTIC SCOPES (proper version for my resolution 1440x900)
-OTC METRIC TOOLS

I started a new campaign in Asiatic Fleet at dec 1941
On my first patrol encauntered about 100 nm on south of Formosa a convoy of 5-8 cargo ships along with 4 kuma light cruisers and 4 dd escort. Naturally i engaged and sink 1 kuma and and 1 merchant. ;)
After i escaped from dd's, encauntered, in the same area a huge tanker and a while later another, even larger convoy
of merchants and warships contains two kongo battleships! and heavy dd escorts.I sink one of Kongo of course but is this normal to meet such a large convoys, where one contains two Kongo battleships at the beggining of the war with this set of mods?

Dear Mate: what is "TMO Patch"?

TMO 25 has only some optional mods, but a patch?

Try RSRDC (The Run Silent Run Deep Campaign Mod), for TMO (RSRDC 5.02 plus RSRDC Patch 5XXXX), you will obtain more historically accurate results.

Regards and welcome aboard!

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[dilleer]

Dear Mate: what is "TMO Patch"?

TMO 25 has only some optional mods, but a patch?

In download section there is a small TMO 2.5 PATCH so i installed it.

Try RSRDC (The Run Silent Run Deep Campaign Mod), for TMO (RSRDC 5.02 plus RSRDC Patch 5XXXX), you will obtain more historically accurate results.


I know RSRDC but there's few things that i don't like. For example this damn zigzac's, that convoys and lone merchants do in later stages of war. Besides enemy traffic is too low for me. I know this is historically accurate but none the less very annoying.

Another question:
Is there a chance to find for example in battle of midway one of the Jap carriers or other fat and juicy warships and sink them without intalled RSRDC only TMO?
Or battles around Guadalcanal when i will be there at proper time period (Tokyo Express, Night battles etc.)
Or to take down Yamato in Leyte Gulf?
Simply in one sentence how historically accurate and realistic the TMO without RSRDC is?

[LeeOnn]

Hello everyone.
I am newbie on Subsim and i have a question.
Not sure is this the right place to ask about this but i have intalled TMO 2.5 anyway so:
Which of the manual targetting methods is the most precise.
I'm using Vector Analysis method and found it very precise.
Dick O' Kane method is very simple but precision is not so good in my opinion.
If anyone knows other, more precise methods please reply to this post.
I never used a method included in OTC mod (using the omnimeter) because it's for fully realistic gameplay none the less i have the OTC installed and strongly recommend this MOD as an addition to TMO:03:

Ah i almost forgot. I set realism on hard ("no map contact update" and "no event camera" is disabled besides that the rest is enabled)

[Armistead]

In download section there is a small TMO 2.5 PATCH so i installed it.



I know RSRDC but there's few things that i don't like. For example this damn zigzac's, that convoys and lone merchants do in later stages of war. Besides enemy traffic is too low for me. I know this is historically accurate but none the less very annoying.

Another question:
Is there a chance to find for example in battle of midway one of the Jap carriers or other fat and juicy warships and sink them without intalled RSRDC only TMO?
Or battles around Guadalcanal when i will be there at proper time period (Tokyo Express, Night battles etc.)
Or to take down Yamato in Leyte Gulf?
Simply in one sentence how historically accurate and realistic the TMO without RSRDC is?

Duci did a lot of work on TMO traffic, but he doesn't pretend that it's as historical as RSRD, TMO is more a AI mod, RSRD is a traffic mod. RSRD scripts traffic rather historically perfect from port, course, etc. Duci appears to have added most the larger battles fairly well at the proper dates, including Midway. RSRD scripts almost every action from small to large and really has certain campaigns done very well, like the Solomons, several large battles, surface engagements, invasions, etc., that you won't find in TMO. TMO's traffic isn't as historically accurate, groups, ships, as RSRD, the mods build traffic rather differently, but he's got plenty of historic action.

I understand many complain it's hard to find traffic in RSRD, it's there, just more historical, sticks to certain shipping lanes as the war progresses. Going to patrol zones often leads to frustration, I go to where I know action is. You can always open up TMO and RSRD campaign files in the ME and compare, just know they do things differently, TMO may appear to have less traffic, but not really, he respawns many of the same groups, changing them up using other settings.

Not sure what you mean by the late war zags. If a group spots you the entire group will go into a small zig pattern, more helming, in both TMO and RSRD. When it comes to actual course changes {not evasion zigs} TMO uses many more course changes, about every 10nms or so than RSRD. I love this feature about TMO, because the many course changes can really throw you off.

I like RSRD for more historic value, TMO more for difficulty. The other issue with RSRD is that it overwrites all the crew ratings of TMO, so the escorts are a lil easier to deal with in RSRD, Duci uses more veteran ratings than RSRD, however it's easy, but time consuming to edit crew ratings which I've done for RSRD.

I always go back to RSRD, but TMO traffic can be fun in itself and more difficult unless you tweak RSRD.

[Hylander_1314]

Hello everyone.
I am newbie on Subsim and i have a question.
Not sure is this the right place to ask about this but i have intalled TMO 2.5 anyway so:
Which of the manual targetting methods is the most precise.
I'm using Vector Analysis method and found it very precise.
Dick O' Kane method is very simple but precision is not so good in my opinion.
If anyone knows other, more precise methods please reply to this post.
I never used a method included in OTC mod (using the omnimeter) because it's for fully realistic gameplay none the less i have the OTC installed and strongly recommend this MOD as an addition to TMO:03:

Ah i almost forgot. I set realism on hard ("no map contact update" and "no event camera" is disabled besides that the rest is enabled)

Honestly, if you have OTC installed, why wouldn't you use Capn Scurvy's method over the others? At least until you get used to using the mod anyways.

His OTC mod is finally prompted me to go manual on targeting, as I knew the stock sub setup was skewed from the developers, and I don't play enough to have to constantly re-aquaint myself with the errors of the stock setup.

As far as I know, you can use whatever method you like though, and it should even improve your targeting.

Actually though, getting to know all the different ways of targeting, should only improve your accuracy, and figure what method(s) work for specific situations.

The more you have in your bag of tricks, the better your successes should tally up on the scoreboard.

[doulos05]

Hello everyone.
I am newbie on Subsim and i have a question.
Not sure is this the right place to ask about this but i have intalled TMO 2.5 anyway so:
Which of the manual targetting methods is the most precise.
I'm using Vector Analysis method and found it very precise.
Dick O' Kane method is very simple but precision is not so good in my opinion.
If anyone knows other, more precise methods please reply to this post.
I never used a method included in OTC mod (using the omnimeter) because it's for fully realistic gameplay none the less i have the OTC installed and strongly recommend this MOD as an addition to TMO:03:

Ah i almost forgot. I set realism on hard ("no map contact update" and "no event camera" is disabled besides that the rest is enabled)

I find the sum total of errors in a proper Dick O'Kane (taken from inside 1000 yards) to be negligible. Mathematically, we're talking about errors averaging under 50 feet, the difference between hitting directly under the funnel and hitting directly astern or ahead of the funnel. Target movement due to a detected torpedo wake tends to have a greater impact on accuracy than the imprecision in Dick O'Kane.

That said, if you're going for super-realistic, you can read the TDC manual from 1946, it details precisely how to set up the 3 kinds of shots recommended. We have a quasi-functional TDC, so you could run it almost just exactly like your real counterparts.

[sithlordmaligant]

i was using tmo 2.5 and trying to use a sub and could not get to no stations like periscopes the sub i was trying to use was the typhoon i need help or what do i need ot enable periscopes

[Mister_Spok]

Can anyone please tell me how can I change water/uderwater colors in TMO? I really like TMO, but I LUV water and underwater colours in RFB (they are awesome, yeah).

EDIT:

Oh nevermind, the "Improved stock environment for TMO&RFB" mod by Sailor Steve almost made my day. Much excellent work!

[Hylander_1314]

You will need S3D Editor, as the water color is in the Data / Env folder.

There are 6 .dat files in there, and What you can do, is compare the water color settings with RFB, and change them accordingly.

But there are a lot of settings between the 6 files.

[SilentOtto]

SOOOO all you TMO cap'n crunchers, I've got a bit of an update on my deck gun problem.

After MUCH searching the forums and foolin around in the files I discovered how to fix a random "Conning Tower Upgrade equipment switcheroo" bug. Yes that's what I'm calling it ;) I still haven't found out WHY I got all these problems, but fixing them is PRETTY easy, more or less. Once you know where to look and what to type, it's just some simple text editing and filling in the blank really :)

SO! To the other guy having a similar equipment problem with the conning tower upgrade. You've got to go into the ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc file in your SaveGame data folder and do some work. Make sure it's your most current savegame file....

...Plus a lot of stuff...



Hey matey, I necro to answer you since this worked great for me too, and I had a hard time searching for this answer... Maybe this info should be included somewhere to be more accesible :) I was searching for things like no deck gun traverse, deck gun cannot move, then I read all the infos about bow/deck problem, that was easy, but finding this piece of info took me a few days.

Thanks much!!! :salute:



***EDIT*** : Unfortunately, though I was able to change the gun's side from bow to starboard, the gun still doesnt move at all from side to side. I just started a new career on a S boat and the same happens, gun works, range can be changed, but it doesnt traverse at all, it's stuck on its initial position.

Anyone has a clue? My mods are TMO 2.5 with patch plus OTC for TMO (with the 5:4 screen submod added).

[Roger Dodger]

Hey matey, I necro to answer you since this worked great for me too, and I had a hard time searching for this answer... Maybe this info should be included somewhere to be more accesible :) I was searching for things like no deck gun traverse, deck gun cannot move, then I read all the infos about bow/deck problem, that was easy, but finding this piece of info took me a few days.

Thanks much!!! :salute:



***EDIT*** : Unfortunately, though I was able to change the gun's side from bow to starboard, the gun still doesnt move at all from side to side. I just started a new career on a S boat and the same happens, gun works, range can be changed, but it doesnt traverse at all, it's stuck on its initial position.

Anyone has a clue? My mods are TMO 2.5 with patch plus OTC for TMO (with the 5:4 screen submod added).

From: The Renegade: "SO! To the other guy having a similar equipment problem with the conning tower upgrade."

I think I'm 'the other guy' Renegade is referring to, but my problem is somewhat different. I've never had the 'traversing' problem. My beef is that I don't get a deck gun AT ALL when upgrading to a Gato-class boat.

I had been using TMO2.2, but this campaign I've upgraded to TMO2.5. I disabled TMO2.2 (and all other MODs), then deleted the 'My Documents\SH4' folder, THEN enabled TMO2.5 (and other MODs like RSRDC). Sure enough, the game re-installed the 'SH4' folder into My Documents, so no previous savegames should 'confuse' the new install.

I started the new campaign on Nov. 30, 1941, Asiatic Fleet in an S-Boat. It came equipped with a 4"/50 deck gun. The deck gun traverses just fine: I sank 6 'Junks' and finished off a merchantman (heavily damaged with my last torpedo, and under intense small-arms fire) with the deck gun. OK so far.

I accepted a new command after my 4th patrol - a Sargo-Class boat, which only has an aft deck gun. I don't have the after-gun submod installed, so I have NO deck gun at all, although I do have a 20mm anti-aircraft gun (which an S-Boat does not have). I'm about 1/2 way through my first patrol (early August, 1942), and haven't experienced any problems.

The 'no deck gun' problem has occurred when I accept command of a Gato-class boat - I have gotten NO deck gun and NO crew slots for a deck gun. I have checked the data\submarine\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato.upc file in the TMO2.5 folder, and capability for a deck gun is, indeed, there under 'Compartment 8' (Aft deck gun) and 'Compartment 9' (Fore deck gun), along with the appropriate CrewMemberSlots for both Compartments.

So, when I do upgrade to a Gato-class boat, I 'should' get a deck gun on the bow. I'll just have to play out the Sargo patrols, and see what happens when I do upgrade. I'll let you all know.

Good Hunting!

[bandit484]

From: The Renegade: "SO! To the other guy having a similar equipment problem with the conning tower upgrade."

I think I'm 'the other guy' Renegade is referring to, but my problem is somewhat different. I've never had the 'traversing' problem. My beef is that I don't get a deck gun AT ALL when upgrading to a Gato-class boat.

I had been using TMO2.2, but this campaign I've upgraded to TMO2.5. I disabled TMO2.2 (and all other MODs), then deleted the 'My Documents\SH4' folder, THEN enabled TMO2.5 (and other MODs like RSRDC). Sure enough, the game re-installed the 'SH4' folder into My Documents, so no previous savegames should 'confuse' the new install.

I started the new campaign on Nov. 30, 1941, Asiatic Fleet in an S-Boat. It came equipped with a 4"/50 deck gun. The deck gun traverses just fine: I sank 6 'Junks' and finished off a merchantman (heavily damaged with my last torpedo, and under intense small-arms fire) with the deck gun. OK so far.

I accepted a new command after my 4th patrol - a Sargo-Class boat, which only has an aft deck gun. I don't have the after-gun submod installed, so I have NO deck gun at all, although I do have a 20mm anti-aircraft gun (which an S-Boat does not have). I'm about 1/2 way through my first patrol (early August, 1942), and haven't experienced any problems.

The 'no deck gun' problem has occurred when I accept command of a Gato-class boat - I have gotten NO deck gun and NO crew slots for a deck gun. I have checked the data\submarine\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato.upc file in the TMO2.5 folder, and capability for a deck gun is, indeed, there under 'Compartment 8' (Aft deck gun) and 'Compartment 9' (Fore deck gun), along with the appropriate CrewMemberSlots for both Compartments.

So, when I do upgrade to a Gato-class boat, I 'should' get a deck gun on the bow. I'll just have to play out the Sargo patrols, and see what happens when I do upgrade. I'll let you all know.

Good Hunting!

I do believe that when you accept a new boat of any kind the first patrol with that sub that you accepted will not be able to have a deck gun on the sub until you complete 1 patrol with the new boat. Then after you return to base then you can outfit your boat with a deck gun.:06::06::06::06:

[stanger]

I accepted a new command after my 4th patrol - a Sargo-Class boat, which only has an aft deck gun. I don't have the after-gun submod installed, so I have NO deck gun at all

Correct me if I am wrong, but all the subs in TMO25 have bow mounted deck guns, except gar/tambor. The optional mod for aft deck guns moves DG to stern on all subs, you dont install this mod to get DG on Sargo, so I think that "no deck guns" problem manifested itself here in your case.

It looks like it happens when starting a career with s-class boat (I never experienced it when starting with porpoise, salmon or tambor). Maybe because of 4"50 deck gun - it's not available on other boats until mid '43 or early '44, they should receive 3"5 instead, but they dont, so finding out why could lead to solution.

[SilentOtto]

Just to report what i found out, i had started a career with S-Boat and I put in a 4.50 gun. I'm not 100% sure if it was the one on by default or I chose it... Bad research on my part :oops: As I said before, it didnt work, was pointing down as if broken (same problem I had on Balao) and did not traverse.

So after 1st patrol, in dock I changed it to a 3.50, and voilá, now it's working! :up:

I think my problem was just using guns not allowed on some subs, and so I could mount them but not use them. (I didn't have the crew problem, that part is well documented on TMO manual).

[haz]

believe they had 5 inch guns on s-boats

[Hylander_1314]

The Narwhal are what you're thinking of. Bow and stern guns.

Late war Gato, and Balao boats had them too. Those that were fitted out, or refitted with them.

[Roger Dodger]

Correct me if I am wrong, but all the subs in TMO25 have bow mounted deck guns, except gar/tambor. The optional mod for aft deck guns moves DG to stern on all subs, you dont install this mod to get DG on Sargo, so I think that "no deck guns" problem manifested itself here in your case.

It looks like it happens when starting a career with s-class boat (I never experienced it when starting with porpoise, salmon or tambor). Maybe because of 4"50 deck gun - it's not available on other boats until mid '43 or early '44, they should receive 3"5 instead, but they dont, so finding out why could lead to solution.

'all the subs in TMO25 have bow mounted deck guns, except gar/tambor.'
That may be, but the picture of the Sargo-class boat on the sub's in-port equipment screen shows a stern deck gun, so I 'assume' that's all that is available for a Sargo. There is no deck gun available for purchase in-port, and no deck gun crew spaces.

Strange to say, before Ducimus 'fixed' this bug, I had never encountered it previously. I did get boats with a stern gun or fore gun, whatever the configuration called for. I never really liked the stern gun anyways, since I had to present my beam to a merchant that may be armed to use it. I much prefer shooting over the bow since I'm headed towards the target for torpedo attack. Sampans, Junks or Fishing Boats don't fight back, but I always felt is rather clumsy firing the stern deck gun.

'It looks like it happens when starting a career with s-class boat (I never experienced it when starting with porpoise, salmon or tambor).'

It has happened before when I started with a porpoise. The Gato deck gun just goes away after upgrading.

Bandit: 'I do believe that when you accept a new boat of any kind the first patrol with that sub that you accepted will not be able to have a deck gun on the sub until you complete 1 patrol with the new boat. Then after you return to base then you can outfit your boat with a deck gun.'

Works that way for RADAR, but not for the deck gun. I've had RADAR equipped porpoise, sargo/salmon boats, but lost my RADAR when upgrading to the Gato. Also, when upgrading from RADAR equipped Gato to new Balao, you will also lose the RADAR. Always available after the first patrol with the new boat. Deck guns should always be equipped on a new boat since they came that way 'from the factory'. Once lost during an upgrade, the deck gun is never available again, nor are spaces for a crew.

Again, this may have changed when I did the complete upgrade from TMO2.2 to TMO2.5, including deleting the My Documents\SH4 folder. I'll just have to let you know later - I'll be away from my 'patrol zone' for the next week.

[stanger]

Don't look at that picture - it's not like the game is doing a snapshot of your current boat and put it there on equipment screen; those pics are prepared by the devs, may be changed by a modder, or not, but are still photos. Salmon/Sargo by default (in TMO) have bow mounted deck guns.

Anyway, I am planning to start another campaign with s-class (actually already did, but was sunk somewhere in Luzon Strait:oops: ), but should I receive 4"5 and 3"5 deck guns as a choice (I did)? It wasnt like that in stock game, did it?

[SgtPotato]

I'm concerned.

Did RSRD mod overwrite the Terrible T campaign? I couldn't find it with this mod together.

[TorpX]

believe they had 5 inch guns on s-boats

The S-class had the 4"/ 50 cal., and AFAIK, nothing else.

[Hylander_1314]

Just a little note, that Stanger took the time to fix an out of place cable from the aft mast to control tower for the P-Class, and Salmon/Sargo boats, and I have been using it now for over 24 hours of campaign time. With no ill effects. It doesn't change anything like skin files, just moves the cable.

It appears it is JSGME ready, or you can just drop the individual .dat files in the Data \ Objects Folder in your SH4 directory.

The link is here for them:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...=196093&page=2 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=196093&page=2)

I think it is post #17 if anyone wishes to use / test it.

Since it doesn't mess with any of the campaign files or is invasive to them, any supermod should work. I am using it in FOTRS, and TMO with no ill effects.

[Roger Dodger]

Don't look at that picture - it's not like the game is doing a snapshot of your current boat and put it there on equipment screen; those pics are prepared by the devs, may be changed by a modder, or not, but are still photos. Salmon/Sargo by default (in TMO) have bow mounted deck guns.


If that is true (and I'm sure it is), then where did my Sargo Deck Gun go?

I haven't done a completely 'clean' install of SH4 since TMO1.5, or even before. The SH4 Folder was created 1/11/09. By a completely 'clean' install I mean removing SH4 via Add/Remove Programs, deleting the SH4 folder in My Documents, and removing any references to SH4 in the registry. THEN installing a completely new copy of Silent Hunter and mods.

I made a snapshot of the program's files with JSME when I first installed SH4, and ran the comparison after disabling all mods and before enabling any new mods. There were several pages of differences. Perhaps SH4 has become so 'confused' with all the manipulations over the past three years, that I may have to do a completely clean install to get my deck guns back.


Here is what I have in the different .upc files that control the deck guns in the Sargo: (NOTE that TMO2.5 includes Compartments 8 and 9 for the deck guns due to the inclusion of 'Crew Berthing' in Compartment 3. Deck Guns are in Compartments 7 and 8 in the SaveGame files)

TMO2.5\Data\Submarine\NSS_Sargo\NSS_Sargo.upc

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Sargo
NameDisplayable=Sargo
UnitName= USS Sargo
Type=Sargo
UpgradeClass=1
UnitInterval= 1939-01-16, 1946-12-11
ExternalClassName=SSSargo
Nationality=American
CrewRanks=12
Evolution= Normal

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8]
CompartmentType= 2
StatusActive= No
ID= SargoGunS
NameDisplayable= Aft Gun Deck
Type=NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9]
CompartmentType= 2
StatusActive= No
ID= SargoGunB
NameDisplayable= Fore Gun Deck
Type=NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlot 1 (through 7)]
[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.CrewMemberSlot 1 (through 7)]

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.WeaponSlot 1]
ID= SternDeckGun
NameDisplayable= Aft Deck Gun Mount
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes= NULL
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkBunker= GunsAmmoBunker
IDLinkWeaponIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL
ExternalNodeName3D= M02
ExternalObjectName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= -1

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 9.WeaponSlot 1]
ID= BowDeckGun
NameDisplayable= Fore Deck Gun Mount
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes= NULL
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkBunker= GunsAmmoBunker ;Only UnitParts of this type could be placed here
IDLinkWeaponIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, NULL, NULL
ExternalNodeName3D= M01
ExternalObjectName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= -1

[UserPlayerUnit 1.UpgradePackSlot 3]
ID= UpgDeckGun
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=USDeckGunBasicBow
UserCustomizable=Yes
IDLinkUpgradePackSlots= BowDeckGun, SternDeckGun
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1943-05-31, Upack3in50calDGBow
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsIntervalDefault2= 1943-06-01, NULL, Upack4in50calDGBow

[UserPlayerUnit 1.FunctionalSubsystem 26]
ID= DeckGun1
NameDisplayable= Bow Deck Gun
FunctionalType= WeaponMainCannon
IDLinkFunctionalSubsystemSlots= BowDeckGun, 1

[UserPlayerUnit 1.FunctionalSubsystem 27]
ID= DeckGun2
NameDisplayable= Stern Deck Gun
FunctionalType= WeaponMainCannon
IDLinkFunctionalSubsystemSlots= SternDeckGun, 1

[UserPlayerUnit 1.FunctionalSubsystem 35]
ID= CrewDeckGun
NameDisplayable= Deck Gun
FunctionalType= CrewMembersGrouping
IDLinkFunctionalSubsystemSlots= CrewMemberSlot_DGunL, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGunC1, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGunC2, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGunC3, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGunC4, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGunC5, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGunC6, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2L, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C1, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C2, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C3, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C4, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C5, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C6, 0

*************

My Documents\SH4\data\cfg\UPCInitial\ActiveUserPlayer Units.upc

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Sargo
NameDisplayable=Sargo
UnitName=USS Searaven (SS-196)
UpgradeClass=1
Type=Sargo
UnitInterval=1939-01-16 00:00:00, 1946-12-11 00:00:00
ExternalClassName=SSSargo
Nationality=American
Evolution=Normal

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 7]
ID=SargoGunS
CompartmentType=2
FunctionalType=ArtilleryRoom
NameDisplayable=Aft Gun Deck
Type=NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8]
ID=SargoGunB
CompartmentType=2
FunctionalType=ArtilleryRoom
NameDisplayable=Fore Gun Deck
Type=NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 7.WeaponSlot 1]
ID=SternDeckGun
NameDisplayable=Aft Deck Gun Mount
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=NULL
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkBunker=GunsAmmoBunker
ExternalNodeName3D=M02
ExternalObjectName3D=NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D=-1
IDLinkWeaponLoaded=NULL, NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 7.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 1 (and 2)]

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8]
ID=SargoGunB
CompartmentType=2
FunctionalType=ArtilleryRoom
NameDisplayable=Fore Gun Deck
Type=NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.WeaponSlot 1]
ID=BowDeckGun
NameDisplayable=Fore Deck Gun Mount
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=NULL
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkBunker=GunsAmmoBunker
ExternalNodeName3D=M01
ExternalObjectName3D=NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D=-1
IDLinkWeaponLoaded=NULL, NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 1 (and 2)]

[UserPlayerUnit 1.FunctionalSubsystem 26]
ID=DeckGun1
NameDisplayable=Bow Deck Gun
FunctionalType=WeaponMainCannon
IDLinkFunctionalSubsystemSlots=BowDeckGun,1

[UserPlayerUnit 1.FunctionalSubsystem 27]
ID=DeckGun2
NameDisplayable=Stern Deck Gun
FunctionalType=WeaponMainCannon
IDLinkFunctionalSubsystemSlots=SternDeckGun,1

[UserPlayerUnit 1.FunctionalSubsystem 34]
ID=CrewDeckGun
NameDisplayable=Deck Gun
FunctionalType=CrewMembersGrouping
IDLinkFunctionalSubsystemSlots=CrewMemberSlot_DGun L,0,CrewMemberSlot_DGunC1,0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2L, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C1,0

******************************

My Documents\SH4\data\cfg\SaveGames\00000003\ActiveUs erPlayerUnits.upc

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Sargo
NameDisplayable=Sargo
UnitName=USS Searaven (SS-196)
UpgradeClass=1
Type=Sargo
UnitInterval=1939-01-16 00:00:00, 1946-12-11 00:00:00
ExternalClassName=SSSargo
Nationality=American
Evolution=In_Base

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 7]
ID=SargoGunS
CompartmentType=2
FunctionalType=ArtilleryRoom
NameDisplayable=Aft Gun Deck
Type=NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 7.WeaponSlot 1]
ID=SternDeckGun
NameDisplayable=Aft Deck Gun Mount
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=NULL
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkBunker=GunsAmmoBunker
ExternalNodeName3D=M02
ExternalObjectName3D=NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D=-1
IDLinkWeaponLoaded=NULL, NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 7.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 1 (and 2)]

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8]
ID=SargoGunB
CompartmentType=2
FunctionalType=ArtilleryRoom
NameDisplayable=Fore Gun Deck
Type=NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.WeaponSlot 1]
ID=BowDeckGun
NameDisplayable=Fore Deck Gun Mount
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=NULL
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkBunker=GunsAmmoBunker
ExternalNodeName3D=M01
ExternalObjectName3D=NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D=-1
IDLinkWeaponLoaded=NULL, NULL

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 8.CrewMemberSlotAdditionalRepository 1 (and 2)]

[UserPlayerUnit 1.FunctionalSubsystem 26]
ID=DeckGun1
NameDisplayable=Bow Deck Gun
FunctionalType=WeaponMainCannon
IDLinkFunctionalSubsystemSlots=BowDeckGun,1

[UserPlayerUnit 1.FunctionalSubsystem 27]
ID=DeckGun2
NameDisplayable=Stern Deck Gun
FunctionalType=WeaponMainCannon
IDLinkFunctionalSubsystemSlots=SternDeckGun,1

[UserPlayerUnit 1.FunctionalSubsystem 34]
ID=CrewDeckGun
NameDisplayable=Deck Gun
FunctionalType=CrewMembersGrouping
IDLinkFunctionalSubsystemSlots=CrewMemberSlot_DGun L,0,CrewMemberSlot_DGunC1,0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2L, 0,CrewMemberSlot_DGun2C1,0

[stanger]

That may be the root of deck gun problem - 3 year old SH4 installation. And if you didnt start new carrer (with "my documents" folder deleted) after every super-mod installation/update, then it could have led to such problems like disappearing deck gun.
We will see what happens in my game (s-boat), but Im only after second patrol (3dsmax fault).

You can create a single mission with sargo and set the date to that of your career (to get the same or similar equipment). launch it, close and go to UPCInitial\ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc. It should contain Sargo from single mission now, not career. You could compare it with your career save and see what can be done.
Like I said, Im in command of S-boat right now in career, but loaded some test mission recently with Sargo and have Sargo in that file now. I will post it for you, if you want to do some comparisons:

http://www.mediafire.com/?2e6om0y3m57dcav

Dont look at upgrade class and max officers - I modded it for myself, its not TMO default.

(I hope its the right file, its 2 am here).

[Roger Dodger]

That may be the root of deck gun problem - 3 year old SH4 installation. And if you didnt start new carrer (with "my documents" folder deleted) after every super-mod installation/update, then it could have led to such problems like disappearing deck gun.
We will see what happens in my game (s-boat), but Im only after second patrol (3dsmax fault).

You can create a single mission with sargo and set the date to that of your career (to get the same or similar equipment). launch it, close and go to UPCInitial\ActiveUserPlayerUnits.upc. It should contain Sargo from single mission now, not career. You could compare it with your career save and see what can be done.
Like I said, Im in command of S-boat right now in career, but loaded some test mission recently with Sargo and have Sargo in that file now. I will post it for you, if you want to do some comparisons:

http://www.mediafire.com/?2e6om0y3m57dcav

Dont look at upgrade class and max officers - I modded it for myself, its not TMO default.

(I hope its the right file, its 2 am here).

1. I usually did start a new career after installing the TMO updates, but did not delete the My Documents\SH4 folder. Some of the updates were installed in port, and the career continued from there.

2. . . . create a single mission with sargo . . .
Never thought of doing that - I'll give it a try and see what happens.

3. . . . its 2 am here . . .
Where is 'here'? You don't have your location in your profile - :06:

Good Hunting

[seaplate hitman]

Parts of my keyborad order were ineffective such as all orders from my key pad.

In order to test my keyboard, I made some writing in a note book, no problem with it.

Unexpected that the game of SH3 also has the same problem of keyboard order.
I reinstalled the game and bought a new keyboard for this reason, but the problems are still there.

Can you give me some idea to solve this problem?

Are there some errors of my game or my computer? :wah::wah:

[Hylander_1314]

Something is definitely amiss if you are having issues with your keyboard. And to get a replacement thinking it was a bad board, to have the same issue, is really frustrating.

It shouldn't be an issue with your games. Since both SH3 and SH4 are doing it, ...............it could be something Windows.

To be of help, could you give us a little info on your computer and the SH3 and SH4 games?

What are the specs on your computer? What version of Windows do you have, and and where did you install the game files to?

Oh, and is your keyboard a wireless version? I had a couple snags with mine when I first got it, but I had to go into the keyboard / mouse software and make a couple adjustments.

Also, your versions of SH3 and SH4, are they disk (DVD) versions, or download versions?

That would help us to help you get it figured out.

[seaplate hitman]

Something is definitely amiss if you are having issues with your keyboard. And to get a replacement thinking it was a bad board, to have the same issue, is really frustrating.

It shouldn't be an issue with your games. Since both SH3 and SH4 are doing it, ...............it could be something Windows.

To be of help, could you give us a little info on your computer and the SH3 and SH4 games?

What are the specs on your computer? What version of Windows do you have, and and where did you install the game files to?

Oh, and is your keyboard a wireless version? I had a couple snags with mine when I first got it, but I had to go into the keyboard / mouse software and make a couple adjustments.

Also, your versions of SH3 and SH4, are they disk (DVD) versions, or download versions?

That would help us to help you get it figured out.

Thanks a lot ! The verison of my SH4 is original 1.5 .
I think you are right, they must be some errors with my computer.
The operating system is XP. I decide to re-intall it again.
Let me have a try and I will announce the result after a new test.

[stanger]

1. I usually did start a new career after installing the TMO updates, but did not delete the My Documents\SH4 folder. Some of the updates were installed in port, and the career continued from there.

2. . . . create a single mission with sargo . . .
Never thought of doing that - I'll give it a try and see what happens.

3. . . . its 2 am here . . .
Where is 'here'? You don't have your location in your profile - :06:

Good Hunting

Here, in Poland, Europe.

[Roger Dodger]

Here, in Poland, Europe.

Thanx, also good of you to now include your position in your profile. I always like to know who and where I'm talking to :D

I tried to run one of the missions with a Sargo-class boat. The one near Christmas Island, south of Java. As soon as the mission loaded, I went directly to the 'equipment' screen - NO deck gun or crew slots. So I guess my whole SH4 game is 'hosed'. I'll be completly re-installing later today.

FYI: That mission to Christmas Island was to forstall a Japanese landing there. There were a couple of each frieghters and troop transports, at least 3 heavy and light cruisers and 'many' destroyers or DEs. I managed to sink one freighter AND a Heavy Cruiser, and actually got away with it. Lots of DCs, but avoided any damage. Actually, had to do two seperate attacks since I couldn't reload my torpedoes while at silent running.

Now to re-install - that usually takes all day with re-booting, testing, and manipulating TMO to get the silhouettes back on my contact/attack maps. Any TMO stuff I need to do is, of course, done before I enable it. I just hate those blobs :down:

Last night, I also took a look at the 'extra' ships in RSRDC. Using Paint.Net I found NO silhouettes in any of the *_shp.dds files - the files were there (6Kb), but nothing was showing for the image (except the checkered background). I hadn't noticed before that these ships don't have silhouettes when attacking, so color me confused. Perhaps I'm using the wrong program to view the images. Any idea which program would be better to view .dds files?

See ya in a day or two. :wah:

Good Hunting!

[stanger]

Now to re-install - that usually takes all day with re-booting, testing, and manipulating TMO to get the silhouettes back on my contact/attack maps. Any TMO stuff I need to do is, of course, done before I enable it. I just hate those blobs :down:

:) That is what I do too. All the tweaking (not including mods installation, thats quick) take a day or two, but thats make me even more eager to finally start the game and play.

Last night, I also took a look at the 'extra' ships in RSRDC. Using Paint.Net I found NO silhouettes in any of the *_shp.dds files - the files were there (6Kb), but nothing was showing for the image (except the checkered background). I hadn't noticed before that these ships don't have silhouettes when attacking, so color me confused. Perhaps I'm using the wrong program to view the images. Any idea which program would be better to view .dds files?



It's alpha channel that make ship silhouettes not visible. Actually there are couple methods of doing it: it may be just empty picture with alpha channel, or the ship silhouette may be there but hidden behind\covered by alpha channel (you can do that in Photoshop) or the ship silhouette may be on alpha channel, so to remove it one would have to "clear" the alpha channel of it (not entirly sure right now how it works in sh4). In Paint.Net it works differently, but the effect is the same: open layer properties and set opacity to zero, save.
To view dds files I use xnview (hit ctrl+h to show/hide alpha channel on files that have it). There is somewhere on nvidia website small (and old) dds viewer, it can display a lot of usefull info about dds, like number of mip maps, what type of compression a texture is using, and alpha channel of course, but it crashes on my win 7 system (don't know why as it was working for some time).

[Roger Dodger]

:) That is what I do too. All the tweaking (not including mods installation, thats quick) take a day or two, but thats make me even more eager to finally start the game and play.



I finally got Silent Hunter all disinstalled, including deleting registry entries, saving the mods and radio stations and defragging the GAMES hard drive. Rebooted and installed SH4 v1.0 (from the original Direct2Drive download file), then tested the installation.

First thing I noticed was it didn't ask me for my license (which I kept as a text file). Started a campaign in the Asiatic Fleet with an S-Boat. Everything worked, including the deck gun. NOW I remember why I never leave port without TMO :yep: The plain vanilla game just can't compare!

Next, install the U-Boat upgrade (v1.5). No need to do the v1.3 or v1.4 upgrades. Install JSGME and save a snapshot of the original program files. Delete the My Documents\SH4 folder, then start a new campaign - this time in a Sargo-class boat. Now, something interesting happens - the game defaults to a stern mounted deck gun for the Sargo :hmmm: That may be where the problem with the deck guns is coming from - an incompatibility with Ducimus' fixes for the Tench-class (or Tambor?). I traded for a forward mounted deck gun - no problem there, except I had to put a crew on it. Started the campaign, then tested the deck gun (now on the fore deck). No problems! Swiveled and fired OK.

I still need to enable TMO2.5, but I think I'll do that tomorrow - its after 2AM now in Oregon, and I'm sleepy.

Let you know what happens tomorrow.

PS: The program still doesn't ask me to enter my license (key), nor does it access the internet to check the license as it used to do.

[fitzcarraldo]

I finally got Silent Hunter all disinstalled, including deleting registry entries, saving the mods and radio stations and defragging the GAMES hard drive. Rebooted and installed SH4 v1.0 (from the original Direct2Drive download file), then tested the installation.

First thing I noticed was it didn't ask me for my license (which I kept as a text file). Started a campaign in the Asiatic Fleet with an S-Boat. Everything worked, including the deck gun. NOW I remember why I never leave port without TMO :yep: The plain vanilla game just can't compare!

Next, install the U-Boat upgrade (v1.5). No need to do the v1.3 or v1.4 upgrades. Install JSGME and save a snapshot of the original program files. Delete the My Documents\SH4 folder, then start a new campaign - this time in a Sargo-class boat. Now, something interesting happens - the game defaults to a stern mounted deck gun for the Sargo :hmmm: That may be where the problem with the deck guns is coming from - an incompatibility with Ducimus' fixes for the Tench-class (or Tambor?). I traded for a forward mounted deck gun - no problem there, except I had to put a crew on it. Started the campaign, then tested the deck gun (now on the fore deck). No problems! Swiveled and fired OK.

I still need to enable TMO2.5, but I think I'll do that tomorrow - its after 2AM now in Oregon, and I'm sleepy.

Let you know what happens tomorrow.

PS: The program still doesn't ask me to enter my license (key), nor does it access the internet to check the license as it used to do.

You can try TMO 22 (TMO 2 plus update 2 to 22), and Traveller Mod. For me, this is a better combination than TMO 25. TMO 22 seems more stable than TMO 25.

This is my actual JSGME list (also I have radio and gramophone files, direct installation):


Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[F:\SH4\MODS]

TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2
TMO_Update_20_to_22
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
SCAF for RSRDC v502_2.0
FOTRS Environment
PE4_low quality bow wave and stern wakes (more FPS)
Nav Map Make-Over v2.1
NMMO Airbase Add-on
TMO_Easier_AI
IJN_Radar_Fix_for_TMO2_Easier_AI
Fixed Zero Bomb Load RSRDC
TMO_Visuals_for_RSRDC
Convoy Routes TMO+RSRD
sobers compass mod_version color
SMALLER SEABED ROCKS
SMALLER SEA PLANTS SMALL
#4 PE4 Ship_debris_SH4_with bodies
Webster's Eliminate Floating Plankton
Webster's Single Mission for Rain Test
Webster's Torpedo Test Missions for v1.5
Traveller Mod v2.02 for TMO
Webster's Missing Voices
speech_overhaul
Cold Weather Crew Clothing
Webster's Ship Manuvering Fix
Webster's Real Lifeboats Fix for v1.5
LST_TMO_v2
Traveller Mod v2.02 (TMO) Longer Sinking Times patch

This combination is very stable and no problems with any of the subs (I use mainly Gato class boats).

FOTRS Environment is the Fall of the Rising Sun megamod atmosphere, the best for me.

Also I added a lot of new ships (my own ASAT mod - Added Ships and Traffic for TMO RSRDC); is my Beta version, all fine with the mod. When I obtain the authorizations from the ships creators, I will publish my mod. I added traffic in San Francisco, San Diego, New London, the Caribbean, New york and Australian bases, and new allies and enemy convoys to RSRDC campaign, with ships from FOTRS and Operation Monsun mods, and ships converted from SH3 MFM and VonDos ships. For the moment, only for my use...

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Hylander_1314]

Wow! That's a lot of add-ons over TMO!

Actually, I don't think you need the PE4 Ship Debris, and Bodies mod, as I think it is already in TMO, and has been since I think 1.9, but I'm not sure.

You should also try Webster's Smaller Rain Mod, the New Large Lifeboat, and Oar Color Correction Mods. Very nice little detail mods that really enhance the game atmosphere.

[stanger]

Let you know what happens tomorrow.

You should be fine with that new installation, at least with deck guns. I just got a Salmon (started with s-boat) and 3"5 DG was there, bow mounted, and it works.
So there is no such thing as deck gun bug in TMO, at least as far as your SH4 installation is healthy.

[Roger Dodger]

You should be fine with that new installation, at least with deck guns. I just got a Salmon (started with s-boat) and 3"5 DG was there, bow mounted, and it works.
So there is no such thing as deck gun bug in TMO, at least as far as your SH4 installation is healthy.

I finally found out where the problem with the deck gun was coming from :rock:

One at a time I, installed the various MODs - TMO2.5, then RSRDC and its patch, and tested each installation by running a new campaign (Asiatic Fleet in a Sargo-class boat) after each install. I always got a (forward mounted) deck gun. Then, I installed the RSRDC add-ons (Convoy Routes, Zero Bombload Fix, CD Sonar, TMO Visuals, and IJN Radar fix). So far, so good. Then I enabled the Crew Rank Fix for RSRDC, and Voila! No deck gun! :wah:

Checking the Submarine\NSS_Sargo.upc and the SaveGame file I found that this particular RSRDC fixer-upper overwrites the TMO .upc file with the older configuration, and just confuses hell out of the whole program. Ducimus added in the 'Crew Berthing' to Compartment 3, which changes numbers on all the succeeding compartments; RSRDC Crew Fix uses the old Compartment list. Ergo, this particular Fix is incompatible with TMO.

I haven't enabled the RSRDC Pre-Pearl Harbor Campaign yet, but I expect no problems with that one since it makes no changes to the Submarine.upc file - only to the campaign files.:woot:

I still have that pesky Crew Rating (personal) problem, i.e. the boat's crew already starts out with max Petty Officers/Officers, so nobody can rise in Rate/Rank over the next four years over SN (which is automatic in this program). In the Real World, most of the crew on a sub were Petty Officers, very few started out as a Seaman Recruit, unless they were 'busted' for some infraction. Just graduating from Boot Camp gave a rise in Rate to Seaman Apprentice (SA or E-2). 'Most' would go to an 'A' school for a specialty. 'A' schools were three months to a year, depending on the course. Graduates were usually at least Rated a Seaman Striker (SN or E-3), even a PO3 (E-4). THEN there was 'Submarine School' for several months at least, adding to Time in Grade, and appropriate rise in Rate (enlisted men get Rate, officers get Rank).

Reading the RSRDC.upc file, it seems that the only thing that was changed were the numbers of Petty Officers/Officers.

NSS_Sargo.upc from TMO:

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Sargo
NameDisplayable=Sargo
UnitName= USS Sargo
Type=Sargo
UpgradeClass=1
UnitInterval= 1939-01-16, 1946-12-11
ExternalClassName=SSSargo
Nationality=American
CrewRanks=12
Evolution= Normal
Damage= 0
TextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Sargo/NSS_Sargo_T01.tga
LightmapTextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Sargo/NSS_Sargo_O01.tga
NormalmapTextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Sargo/NSS_Sargo_N01.tga
MenuSilhouetteTextureName= Salmon_Class_01.tga
MaxPettyOfficers=20 ; max number of crewmembers over rank 4
MaxOfficers=14 ; max number of crewmembers over rank 7


NSS_Sargo.upc from RSRDC Crew Fix:

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Sargo
NameDisplayable=Sargo
UnitName= USS Sargo
Type=Sargo
UpgradeClass=1
UnitInterval= 1939-01-16, 1946-12-11
ExternalClassName=SSSargo
Nationality=American
CrewRanks=12
Evolution= Normal
Damage= 0
TextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Sargo/NSS_Sargo_T01.tga
LightmapTextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Sargo/NSS_Sargo_O01.tga
NormalmapTextureName= NULL
MenuSilhouetteTextureName= Salmon_Class_01.tga
MaxPettyOfficers=48 ; max number of crewmembers over rank 4
MaxOfficers=11 ; max number of crewmembers over rank 7

If that is all there is to it, I 'should' only have to change the numbers (highlighted) in the TMO .upc files to get what I want (after disabling all MODS first, then re-enabling them). :yeah:

[stanger]

The default TMO crew management eliminates that little RPG element the game had. That is how I look at it, cause I don't know much about real life US Navy ranks - how it worked during ww2. So, I changed the same settings as you - max officers and petty officers for each sub (did that before starting new campaign), and its more interesting now - I have some say when it comes to qualifications. A sailor reloading (and maintaining) torpedoes for 4 years, in war conditions, surely can be named a specialist in that task.
We only need to look at the speed the game is giving promotions - it shouldn't be too fast (or too slow).

[Hylander_1314]

Good catch there Roger!

And yes, you are correct about ratings and rank. The Silent Service was definitely not the norm compared to their surface running counterparts in the Navy. It was a very specialized service, that was tough to even get into, as a high percentage of volunteers didn't make it through the initial training.

When I was a teen, I had the priviledge of talkin' with a buddy's uncle who served on subs in the war, and he said you had to, (at least on his boat) do something really really stupid to lose your rating.

[Roger Dodger]

The default TMO crew management eliminates that little RPG element the game had. That is how I look at it, cause I don't know much about real life US Navy ranks - how it worked during ww2. So, I changed the same settings as you - max officers and petty officers for each sub (did that before starting new campaign), and its more interesting now - I have some say when it comes to qualifications. A sailor reloading (and maintaining) torpedoes for 4 years, in war conditions, surely can be named a specialist in that task.
We only need to look at the speed the game is giving promotions - it shouldn't be too fast (or too slow).

Crew Management, in the plain vanilla or TMO game, can only 'simulate' proper advancement in ratings. Such as: You recruit a SR into your crew while in port. Your only choice of where this guy will go on the 'Watch, Station and Quarters Bill' is to rely on his 'Qualifications'. If I want a guy for the deck gun, I'll take a close look at who has the best 'Guns' qualifications, then pick the best qualified candidate for that position. The 'Leadership' qualification is a secondary, but important, consideration since all Petty Officers are considered a 'Leader'.

Once crewed, advancement seems fairly automatic, also fairly true in the real world. An SR will advance to SA after the first patrol, then to SN after the next. The same seems fairly true for the Petty Officers, but just a little slower. A PO3 will advance to PO2, then to PO1 fairly steadily with no interaction from the 'Captain'. SN to PO3, or PO1 to Chief, Chief to Officer, or Officer advancement, is about the only time the 'Captain' is asked to pass out the Promotions. There are usually too few 'Promotions' available for the number of qualified candidates.

The real bug-a-boo comes when you have a whole boatload of First Class Petty Officers with a Chief or Officer as the head of every section. My 'best' solution is to promote, then send this highly qualified individual on to another boat, then recruit a new SR for the last man's position, moving everyone up in the 'food chain' for that section. Have you ever noticed that when you move a man, even in the same section, he takes a 'hit' on Effectiveness?

In the Real World, it was common to transfer 1/4 to 1/3rd of the crew to another boat upon return from patrol. After all, Electric Boat was cranking out 5 subs per month, and qualified crews were much in need for them. It would be real nice in this game if it would 'randomly transfer' a similar number of crew to simulate this situation. Many times, your Executive Officer would be transferred to 'New Construction' or another command (with your recommendation). But since the XO isn't designated in this game (or the Chief of the Boat for that matter), how do you know WHO your XO is?

Just a few 'philosophical' thoughts on my part.

Good Hunting!

[Roger Dodger]

Good catch there Roger!

And yes, you are correct about ratings and rank. The Silent Service was definitely not the norm compared to their surface running counterparts in the Navy. It was a very specialized service, that was tough to even get into, as a high percentage of volunteers didn't make it through the initial training.

When I was a teen, I had the priviledge of talkin' with a buddy's uncle who served on subs in the war, and he said you had to, (at least on his boat) do something really really stupid to lose your rating.

Something seldom mentioned is that to gain 'The Order of the Dolphin' (granted the Dolphin insignia for the uniform), a man (enlisted or officer) had to be qualified to stand any watch, and know every valve and lever and pipe in every compartment on the boat. On top of that, the man would have to re-qualify on a new boat upon transfer. Not every man on a submarine got to wear the Dolphins.

Admiral Charles A. Lockwood, a WWI submariner who rose to commander-in-chief of the Pacific sub fleet during World War II, said this:

"The tasks of diving, attack and surfacing take scores of interlocking motions by dozens of crewmen with split-second timing, but more is required of submariners. They must be alert without being brittle, interested in their shipmates without being nosy, respect privacy without being seclusive, talk without being gabby, and be friendly without being tail-waggers - in short, round pegs for very closely machined round holes. The wrong kind of man aboard a sub can be an insufferable thorn in the sides of shipmates. He can, emotionally, cause almost as much damage as an enemy depth bomb .... In no other branch of military service are men required to remain away from normal human contacts as long as submariners assigned to lengthy patrols that demand long hours - sometimes days - at depths far below the least glimmer of sunlight and far away from the natural feel and smell of natural air. Moreover, these conditions must be endured with good cheer in overcrowded, sometimes ill-smelling, dew-dripping, steel compartments. Those whose tempers or temperaments cannot stand the strain are soon eliminated."

So rigorous was the selection and training process for Submarine School, during the course of World War II, only 2,000 officers and 22,000 enlisted volunteers, highly qualified men, graduated from "Spritz's Navy", out of over 250,000 men who had applied for entry into the Navy's Silent Service. Chief Torpedoman Charles Spritz was the Submarine Training School Master. I haven't been able to find his years of service in this position. (REF: http://www.northofseveycorners.com/history/mem/spritz.htm )

I still have one friend left over from my school days that served on both diesel boats and nukes. He said that nuke boats were only a little less cramped than diesels.

[Hylander_1314]

Dad was on nuke boats in the early 60s. Got his discharge papers 2 weeks before he was supposed to report for duty on the Thresher.

I had all his papers, but those and many other family things went bye-bye after my ID theft ordeal, and the loss of the house.

But I do remember kinda like Kodak stills in my memory, when mom and I went to meet him coming in, and I was a little over 2 years old, and his skipper saw him pick me up, and waved for him to bring me on deck, and he told Dad to take me bellow and show me around.

I have memories of the silos, and the galley, and the torpedo room, and the state rooms for the officers. So it was cool to get a little tour of a boat, though I don't remember a whole lot, but Dad seemed rather popular with the Officers and NCOs, so that was fun.

[seaplate hitman]

Something is definitely amiss if you are having issues with your keyboard. And to get a replacement thinking it was a bad board, to have the same issue, is really frustrating.

It shouldn't be an issue with your games. Since both SH3 and SH4 are doing it, ...............it could be something Windows.

To be of help, could you give us a little info on your computer and the SH3 and SH4 games?

What are the specs on your computer? What version of Windows do you have, and and where did you install the game files to?

Oh, and is your keyboard a wireless version? I had a couple snags with mine when I first got it, but I had to go into the keyboard / mouse software and make a couple adjustments.

Also, your versions of SH3 and SH4, are they disk (DVD) versions, or download versions?

That would help us to help you get it figured out.
Thank you very much for kindly help.
I have solved all problems through making a reinstallation of my Windows.

[Hylander_1314]

Good to know! Glad you got it figured out!

It can be maddening sometimes, especially when it's Windows, and not the game!

[Lupo]

hi!

is there a way to get e new update???...........so you are working on this good mod??

Lupo!:arrgh!:

[Hylander_1314]

hi!

is there a way to get e new update???...........so you are working on this good mod??

Lupo!:arrgh!:

If you are asking about TMO, the current version is 2.5, whih should be in the downloads section here at Subsim.

[stanger]

Anyone have any info on why sub propellers are misaligned in TMO. I just did a quick look at it in s3d on both TMO and stock sub dat files, and propellers in TMO are a little bit off. Or is my game files broken? Or maybe it was done on purpose to bypass some issue?

[Hylander_1314]

Don't know. I never really noticed it, but see if you can get them properly aligned. The only ones I have noticed, are a couple merchants that have screws misaligned so they appear to wobble when the prop is rotating.

Can't remember right off which one(s) it is though.

[Maynd]

Great mod. But i have a questions, is there possible to insert playable suface ships in this mod?

[stanger]

Don't know. I never really noticed it, but see if you can get them properly aligned. The only ones I have noticed, are a couple merchants that have screws misaligned so they appear to wobble when the prop is rotating.

Can't remember right off which one(s) it is though.

Forget that, they are where they suppose to be in game. They arent aligned in dat file (but are right in stock dats), so getting them right would be easy - just copy x, y, z values from stock dat and job done, but since in game everything is alright, its better to not touch this as I suppose someone had good reason to do it this way.
But theres another issue (well known) - after taking damage crew is screaming for the rest of the patrol. It's like the game is not updating boat and\or crew state, or that crew state is in some kind of loop. Which file may be responsible for that?

[Tempest555]

Forget that, they are where they suppose to be in game. They arent aligned in dat file (but are right in stock dats), so getting them right would be easy - just copy x, y, z values from stock dat and job done, but since in game everything is alright, its better to not touch this as I suppose someone had good reason to do it this way.
But theres another issue (well known) - after taking damage crew is screaming for the rest of the patrol. It's like the game is not updating boat and\or crew state, or that crew state is in some kind of loop. Which file may be responsible for that?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v348/Tempest555/Run_Web.jpg

:har:
HAHAHA I did the Bungo Pete Mission last night-it was a real knife fight -and yeah I did it just like the Run Silent Run Deep movie-I got close enough head on to the AKIKAZE to get some shell damage as we cleared the bridge (my scope was ALREADY up to as we went to periscope depth with a charging AKIKAZE with a bone in it's teeth)-anyhoodles the voice file clicks in where the officer in the control room is shouting commands (maybe when we took damage the shouting orders ogg kicked in. He shouts commands as I'm knife fighting the AKIKAZE, when I sink the AKIKAZE (a very lucky shot to), when I go south to toodle down the coast, when I run into an IJN auxilary subchaser near a harbor, when I sink that subchaser, when I investigate the harbor at sunset (oh it was shallow to), when I put torpedoes in docked merchants, as we sail into the sunset..... Any command I give he replies with a shouted reply repeating it. It's like WTF shut up already we're silent running HAHAHAHA.

[stanger]

:haha:

But when I think I need to go back and complete that patrol... With the boat full of histerical crew.:/\\!!

But it is what Roger Dodger was talking about - these men would never be allowed in submarine service; I think I will get rid off them as soon as I dock.


BTW, what are AnimGraphs files responsible for? I found a lot of "StateEntries" in them (like stalker, hunter and prey).

[TorpX]

I'm guessing that they are related to crew animations, and whether you are attacking something, or something is attacking you.

[Roger Dodger]

Forget that, they are where they suppose to be in game. They arent aligned in dat file (but are right in stock dats), so getting them right would be easy - just copy x, y, z values from stock dat and job done, but since in game everything is alright, its better to not touch this as I suppose someone had good reason to do it this way.
But theres another issue (well known) - after taking damage crew is screaming for the rest of the patrol. It's like the game is not updating boat and\or crew state, or that crew state is in some kind of loop. Which file may be responsible for that?

Sometimes its just better to save your game, then exit to windows. Reload the game and you 'may' be set to go. Works like that when I run out of air ON THE SURFACE. The game might be caught in the same type of loop.

[mikerolf1]

Hello all.

I am re-installing SH4; I have the Steam version 1.4.

Everyone seems to feel Trigger Maru is THE mod for this game, but I see TMO 2.5 requires SH4 1.5.

My question is this... is there a version of Trigger Maru for SH4 1.4? Could someone please post a link?

Thank you in advance.

[doulos05]

Hello all.

I am re-installing SH4; I have the Steam version 1.4.

Everyone seems to feel Trigger Maru is THE mod for this game, but I see TMO 2.5 requires SH4 1.5.

My question is this... is there a version of Trigger Maru for SH4 1.4? Could someone please post a link?

Thank you in advance.

I don't have the link, but it is so worth it to upgrade to 1.5, it's not even funny. Seriously, do it. It adds a lot, opens up many more possibilities with mods, and for when you tire of sending marus to the bottom, you can switch to uboats and be the scourge of the merchant marine!

[mikerolf1]

I don't have the link, but it is so worth it to upgrade to 1.5, it's not even funny. Seriously, do it. It adds a lot, opens up many more possibilities with mods, and for when you tire of sending marus to the bottom, you can switch to uboats and be the scourge of the merchant marine!

I want to, but I can't. I am disabled and living on a fixed income. Any expense for computer games is out of the question, at least for now.

[doulos05]

I want to, but I can't. I am disabled and living on a fixed income. Any expense for computer games is out of the question, at least for now.

oh, darn. Well, I hope your budget opens up a bit soon! I used to have TMO for 1.4, but that was 2 computers ago. Let me look and see if it survived the backup...

[Hylander_1314]

There is a link for an older version of TMO over at filefront, but the last person I directed there, said that it was chopped up, in that it wasn't complete.

I think version 1.7.6 was the last version compatable with SH4 v1.4

[Lannes]

Finally got the time tonight to start copying stuff over from my old laptop to my shiny new sports car-type laptop.:rock:

And...of course....the first things I copied were my SH4 mods with TMO 2.5 leading the way. Loaded SH4 1.5 Gold, downloaded JSGME, copied everything over and once again it is time to prowl the Pacific.

Thanks again to all who made TMO possible for SH4. :salute:

[fitzcarraldo]

There is a link for an older version of TMO over at filefront, but the last person I directed there, said that it was chopped up, in that it wasn't complete.

I think version 1.7.6 was the last version compatable with SH4 v1.4

There is a version of FOTRS for 1.4, in SUBSIM.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Hylander_1314]

Good suggestion Fitz! That is true.

Although, I think there may a a copy of 1.7.6 in the download section too. Maybe Sailor Steve or someone uploaded it here. Can't remember right off.

[Webster]

if you guys find working links let me know and i'll put the v1.4 mega mods in the popular mods sticky thread

[Hylander_1314]

Webster, I think v1.9 was the first one to support SH4 1.5 only, but I did run it successfully with SH4 1.4 for some time. I just couldn't use the Uboat stuff, which I don't mess with much anyways, so it was no great loss.

So if anyone wants to try it, they can, but it's no guarantee that it will work, or work flawlessly.

[seaplate hitman]

Sorry to ask some questions about battle experiences.
I was always detected by IJN DD easily when I was closed to the convey.
And I couldn't escape if IJN DD began to drop depth charges.

The Mod Version is TMO2.2 without AI easy MOD.
Is there some seasoned captain can share your precious experiences in detail to help me make a progress?
You can introduce your tactics, for example: how far will you began to attack? and how to escape and so on.
Thanks in advance.
:salute::salute::salute::salute::salute:

[jldjs]

[QUOTE=seaplate hitman;1904350]Sorry to ask some questions about battle experiences.
[FONT=Book Antiqua]I was always detected by IJN DD easily when I was closed to the convey.[/
You can introduce your tactics, for example: how far will you began to attack? and how to escape and so on.[/
oh, but where to begin!!!
First off, you want to set up your attack without "them" knowing you are there. So I've learned to stay out of visual range which is at least 7 nm in clear daylight. Plan your attacks with the environment to your advantage, e.g., night, bad weather, rough seas, etc. Shoot and get away on the surface if at night or poor weather (fog, rain, etc.). If submerged, shoot and go deep and be silent and pick a path to escape. There isn't a fool proof tactic. Save before you attack and replay to learn.

[stanger]

So there is no such thing as deck gun bug in TMO, at least as far as your SH4 installation is healthy.

:arrgh!: I have to take that back. There is a deck gun issue. I just did my 7th war patrol (started with s class, Salmon and then Gar - everything OK), got back to home port, they took my boat for refit and gave it (Gar) back with bow mounted deck gun, and options to upgrade with bow mounted deck guns, and - of course - with no crew slots for bow mounted deck guns :/ So I edited save file, enabled stern DG, enabled crew slots for stern DG, enabled upgrade packs for stern DG, but the game is crashing to desktop every time I go to deck gun or order my crew to man it.
:woot:

[KingKaleuna]

Nothing much to add, except to thank Ducimus and the rest of you modders for giving this game new life. I bought SH IV a few years ago and it spent all of 30 minutes on my hard drive before being thrown in the closet where it belonged.

Found it again during a rare cleaning. Decided to see what the modders had accomplished. Man! I was not disappointed.

Haven't even bothered to finish Mass Effect 3 or Arkham City thanks to TMO. That's pretty high praise from an action fan like me. The Aleutians are a pretty crazy place!

I know it's probably a pretty thankless job modding unfinished games, but I salute you.

[McHub532]

I have Trigger Maru 2.5 installed and I'm wondering if it's not the cause of my issue. I think it may be a desired effect the writer of the mod wanted but one that I want to turn off.

The game keeps turning Dud Torpedoes on and turning on the event camera.
I want dud torpedoes off and event camera off. But each time I start the game it defaults with these turned back on. I apply changes.. and even shut down and restart and the defaults pop back up the way I don't want them.

Is Trigger Maru doing this mod on start up?

[McHub532]

I think I was able to answer my own question.

I went into the:

GamePlaySettings.cfg

And turned a couple falses to trues.. I'll see if this works now.

[stanger]

Its has nothing to do with TMO. Its either SH4 hates you, or once you start the game and go to options to set up realism, and then you start a career, choose realism setting there, it overwrites what you set earlier. So, in captain office, you need to click the radio and check the realism settings once more, adjusting it to your liking.

[Hylander_1314]

Make sure you change your settings in Documents \ Data \ CFG. If you have run the game once, you should be able to set your options up from there manually.

If you have any saved campaigns, you can change them in the save game folder there too.

For, the options you want, these are two settings, and they should be false, not true,

DudTorpedoes=true, change to false

NoEventCamera=true, change to false

You won't have any duds, and you will have the EventCamera on.

But when you start the game, the Options menu from the start screeen, only affect the single missions. When you go to your campaign, you have to set them again, from the Captain's Office as Stanger has said. And as he says, they are accessed by clicking on the radio on the shelf to the left, as are Save and Load game options.

[Tempest555]

I have found the best way to keep a file setting in ANY game not to change is to go to PROPERTIES after editing it and save it to READ only. That'll cure unwanted changes. FWIW

[RC0007]

Just installed this mod, pretty simple and it runs fine. Thank you!

[Tanedin]

Noticing an issue with some kind of streak appearing on the port side of the player subs after TC. I've tried it with S-18, Sargo and Gato with both stock skins and the Foofighters skins, though it's more noticeable with Fooskins. It's only visible during the day after some period of using time compression.

I'm hoping someone else has had this issue and can maybe point me to a fix.

Here's a picture. I thought it was related to the "ship caustic effects" setting, but as you can see, it still happens with that disabled.
http://i45.tinypic.com/2u5e3gz.jpg

[jtpjr]

tmo is a good program BUT IT SCREWED UP AND THE BEST CAMPAIN THAT I EVER HAD CRASHED!!!:down::down::down::nope::nope::nope::nop e::/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!:down: PLZ tell me how to fix it 76000 TONS I AM SO MAD:/\\!!

[Roger Dodger]

tmo is a good program BUT IT SCREWED UP AND THE BEST CAMPAIN THAT I EVER HAD CRASHED!!!: PLZ tell me how to fix it 76000 TONS I AM SO MAD:/\\!!

Pretty tough to diagnose a problem with the limited info you have provided. At this point, my best advise is to reload your game from the last gamesave point, and see if it crashes again. Take notes while playing until it crashes, and carefully observe at which point the CD occurs. You really need to duplicate the symptoms (i.e. the 'Scientific Method') before anyone can help you out.

What is your system like? (specs)
How long have you been playing SH4? Did you upgrade to the U-Boat Missions (SH4 v1.5)? How long ago? Any problems at this point?
When did you enable TMO? Which version? Did you install in port or on patrol? Did you start a completely new campaign after installing TMO, or continue your existing campaign?
Did you disable ALL other mods and install TMO in the #1 position? What other mods are you using, and in what order did you install them? Are you using JSGME for your installs?

These basic questions must be answered first, before attempting to diagnose the problem. Its like going to the doctor, and telling him you feel bad (and nothing else). His answer will be, "Take two aspirin, and call me in the morning."

As long as you are not crashing to the dreaded 'Blue Screen', I don't think you need to Format your Hard Drive, and reload your Windows System, but that's about all I can tell you at this point.

[Armistead]

Basically what Rodger said, TMO has proven to be a very stable mod, so much so you need to look elsewhere for the problem.

[Roger Dodger]

Basically what Rodger said, TMO has proven to be a very stable mod, so much so you need to look elsewhere for the problem.

Indeed :yeah: Eliminate the obvious first. Everything I questioned has caused some problem with my SH4 install (but never a complete Crash to Desktop).

The only hassle I'm having with TMO now is the amount of 'crud' Ducimus put into the water. Since about v2.2, the 'event camera' (underwater) shows a pretty good simulation of SCUBA diving in Los Angeles harbor, or near the bottom of a cess-pool. I really like the event camera to observe the damage I've done :arrgh!: What a RUSH!

I've seen this subject mentioned before, but I haven't seen any 'fix' for it. I need to know exactly which file(s) were changed, and what I need to do to get them back to the original condition. I'm assuming the changed file(s) are one or more of the .fx files in data/Shaders/Water folder.

Good Hunting!

[stanger]

You mean this?
https://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pdfAwe37JQDeIotIWhd7NjHIvubTl7pbr7zK1TtdpPGVLO-xb6G0QdkeVZpa2o_n_DAQWzLqLioBgzwT3E04a3A/SH4Img%402012-07-17_16.21.55_421.jpg?psid=1

If so its impurity.dds in Misc folder. You can edit alpha channel to make it less visible or not visible at all (in game).

[Roger Dodger]

You mean this?
https://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pdfAwe37JQDeIotIWhd7NjHIvubTl7pbr7zK1TtdpPGVLO-xb6G0QdkeVZpa2o_n_DAQWzLqLioBgzwT3E04a3A/SH4Img%402012-07-17_16.21.55_421.jpg?psid=1

If so its impurity.dds in Misc folder. You can edit alpha channel to make it less visible or not visible at all (in game).

Yes, but the 'crud' is not so noticeable in the 'Free Camera'. The real problem is in the 'Event Camera'.

I did some playing around with the Free Camera last night, and my sub was quite clear at periscope depth - I could look along its entire length. Visibility is around 300 feet or about 100 meters - about what it should be in the South Pacific.

The real problem with visibility is with the 'Event Camera'. The Event Camera shows the ship exploding nicely, but when it follows the sinking underwater, you can't even see the shadow of the sinking ship.

I did change the 'impurity.dds' file to Fill: 'Percent 05' from 'Solid Color' and saved the file as DXT1 (Opaque/1-bit Alpha) as file format. I'm using Paint.NET v3.5.2 . I'll have to test it later and see if that does the trick.

Thanx :rock:

[Tanedin]

Noticing an issue with some kind of streak appearing on the port side of the player subs after TC. I've tried it with S-18, Sargo and Gato with both stock skins and the Foofighters skins, though it's more noticeable with Fooskins. It's only visible during the day after some period of using time compression.

I'm hoping someone else has had this issue and can maybe point me to a fix.

Here's a picture. I thought it was related to the "ship caustic effects" setting, but as you can see, it still happens with that disabled.


I reduced all of my settings to minimum and restarted before setting them back to high, problem seems to have resolved itself.

Edit: Why? :06:

[stanger]

Yes, but the 'crud' is not so noticeable in the 'Free Camera'. The real problem is in the 'Event Camera'.

I did some playing around with the Free Camera last night, and my sub was quite clear at periscope depth - I could look along its entire length. Visibility is around 300 feet or about 100 meters - about what it should be in the South Pacific.

The real problem with visibility is with the 'Event Camera'. The Event Camera shows the ship exploding nicely, but when it follows the sinking underwater, you can't even see the shadow of the sinking ship.

I did change the 'impurity.dds' file to Fill: 'Percent 05' from 'Solid Color' and saved the file as DXT1 (Opaque/1-bit Alpha) as file format. I'm using Paint.NET v3.5.2 . I'll have to test it later and see if that does the trick.

Thanx :rock:

I can't find any settings specific to event camera, except in cfg folder (eventcamera.cfg), but thats for camera shake when torpedo hits & explode. That would mean that it is using global settings for env, visibility underwater, and so on. And because its so small it may not scale things to its size - thinking about those impurities: as you've noticed, its ok in free cam, but the effect of it may be intensified in event cam, making it more dense. Other thing to do is to adjust underwater fog settings in scene dat (envdata > underwater > fog > zmax \\ the higher this value, the further you'll see, and do brighter 'downlight'), but the effect would affect your game globally (the same with env files, adjusting them would also help, but its a lot of work with them).

I reduced all of my settings to minimum and restarted before setting them back to high, problem seems to have resolved itself.

Edit: Why?

I would also like to know the answer. One thing to try would be to run stock game, and see if its happens there too, if no, then disable normal maps in TMO, and see if it still there. (because stock game doesnt have normal maps for subs, and maybe for a reason - only guessing, would need to investigate it).

[Tanedin]

Stock game? :har:
...
I'll see if I can stomach it, for science!

EDIT: Yes, it seems like it's a normal maps thing. The streak doesn't appear with normal maps enabled stock but is present with normal maps on TMO.

[stanger]

You can do one more 'experiment'. When creating normal maps dont switch channels, so the nm remains bluish, and see if those streaks will show up.
The sub will be very dark with such NM, I tried that some time ago, but didnt look for streaks...

[Roger Dodger]

I can't find any settings specific to event camera, except in cfg folder (eventcamera.cfg), but thats for camera shake when torpedo hits & explode. That would mean that it is using global settings for env, visibility underwater, and so on. And because its so small it may not scale things to its size - thinking about those impurities: as you've noticed, its ok in free cam, but the effect of it may be intensified in event cam, making it more dense. Other thing to do is to adjust underwater fog settings in scene dat (envdata > underwater > fog > zmax \\ the higher this value, the further you'll see, and do brighter 'downlight'), but the effect would affect your game globally (the same with env files, adjusting them would also help, but its a lot of work with them).



Adjusting the impurity.dds file was an immense help in removing alot of the 'floaties'. The 'Free Camera' still shows around 300' (100m) visibility without most of the 'floaties'. The 'Event Camera' no longer has the 'floaties', but the water is very cloudy (like foggy). So much so that I couldn't see the sinking ship at all underwater.

I got a good test for this view when I torpedoed a Light Cruiser (Sulu Sea). Submerged attack, SONAR attack only once I got the PK locked on the target. Fired 4 torpedoes at 6 second intervals. +/- 2 degrees from Zero attack angle. Range: 1800 yds, Speed: 18 Kts. He was all alone (no escorts) and not zig-zagging. First two torps were hits, missed on the 2nd two. :yeah:

How can I adjust 'Scene.dat'? Its all machine language! :down:

[stanger]

It's simple as opening Word, writing and then saving :)
In this case, you open Silent Editor, in s3d open scene.dat, after file is loaded navigate to (expanding the tree on the left, double-click to expand):
Node - Sky, then expand
EnvData, click EnvData propetries (blue icon), you will see a lot of things listed in main window, scroll down through that list to
Underwater, there you will find
Fog, and in Fog tree, there is
ZMax, change its value to higher one (dont go to high, increasing it by 1, will have noticable effect, and its not on "down" axis, but forward, I think).

You can make brighter color when looking down underwater by changing
Downlight > Color.

After all is done go to File, select Save in a mod, and then Save in new mod folder; enter name for a mod, OK and done. This option (saving as a mod) is only available if you have JSGME, but I'm pretty sure you have. Final thing: enable it with JSGME. Done :D

(unmodded ZMax value is 18, TMO is 9 - I think, I could have changed it in my file)

(Or you can try mine: http://www.mediafire.com/?j5fxs8o54hs7cbw - two files: both with zmax=10, one with a little bit brighter "downlight, second with probably too bright "downlight")

[Roger Dodger]

It's simple as opening Word, writing and then saving :)
In this case, you open Silent Editor, in s3d open scene.dat, after file is loaded navigate to (expanding the tree on the left, double-click to expand):
Node - Sky, then expand
EnvData, click EnvData propetries (blue icon), you will see a lot of things listed in main window, scroll down through that list to
Underwater, there you will find
Fog, and in Fog tree, there is
ZMax, change its value to higher one (dont go to high, increasing it by 1, will have noticable effect, and its not on "down" axis, but forward, I think).

You can make brighter color when looking down underwater by changing
Downlight > Color.

After all is done go to File, select Save in a mod, and then Save in new mod folder; enter name for a mod, OK and done. This option (saving as a mod) is only available if you have JSGME, but I'm pretty sure you have. Final thing: enable it with JSGME. Done :D

(unmodded ZMax value is 18, TMO is 9 - I think, I could have changed it in my file)

(Or you can try mine: http://www.mediafire.com/?j5fxs8o54hs7cbw - two files: both with zmax=10, one with a little bit brighter "downlight, second with probably too bright "downlight")

I've seen S3D mentioned before (as the Silent Editor), but always ASS-U-MEd it was talking about the 'Mission Editor'. :/\\!!

So . . . I downloaded and installed S3D, opened the scene.dat file and changed the ZMax back to the original value of 18.0 . You're right, TMO had changed this value to ZMax=9.0 . I saved this as a MOD, and all I have to do enable it and test. I used the original ZMax value since I was happy with it to begin with it - I can always adjust it down later if the change is too much.

Thanx for the EXPLICIT instructions :rock: Otherwise I would have no idea of what to change or how.

[Dignan]

So I started an S-boat career for a change of pace. Did a test dive with the S-42 class in a training mission. She popped at about 405 ft. Is this right? I thought the S-boat was only able to go to around 250 or 300 ft in this game? Is this by design for TMO? Historical? A problem with my mod?

[Hylander_1314]

Boats could go passed the "test depth" on the dial, but how much more, or for how long? If you find out, you won't be surfacing.

That is how TMO is set up. I've taken a Balao boat down to almost 700ft, and made it back up after the DDs were done trying to ruin our day.

[Dignan]

Boats could go passed the "test depth" on the dial, but how much more, or for how long? If you find out, you won't be surfacing.

That is how TMO is set up. I've taken a Balao boat down to almost 700ft, and made it back up after the DDs were done trying to ruin our day.

So 400 ft for an S-boat isn't out of the question?

Is each boat given a random/different crush depth when you start a mission or campaign?

[TorpX]

So 400 ft for an S-boat isn't out of the question?

That sounds awfully deep. I play RFB, but don't ask me what the actual crush depth is; I'm afraid to take one down past 250 ft. or so. :timeout:

[Dignan]

That sounds awfully deep.


That's what I thought. On top of TMO I'm running the new OTC mod. Would that possibly effect sub stats?

[Roger Dodger]

So I started an S-boat career for a change of pace. Did a test dive with the S-42 class in a training mission. She popped at about 405 ft. Is this right? I thought the S-boat was only able to go to around 250 or 300 ft in this game? Is this by design for TMO? Historical? A problem with my mod?

No, your MOD is OK - you're just lucky getting as deep as 400 ft in a RIVETED S-Boat. Test depth on an S-Boat is only around 200' - CRUSH depth could be anything beyond 200'. Electric Boat only 'guaranteed' safe operations above the Test depth - exceed it at your peril.

200'/33 = 7 atmospheres of pressure @ 15 lbs/sq.in. = 105 lbs/in.ft.
400'/33 = 13 atm X 15 = 195 lbs/sq.in.

Figures are rounded off for clarity. One atm (air pressure) is added to the water pressure (ft./33) for correction. Thus, at 33 ft depth, you get 2 atmospheres of pressure, not one.

S-Boats (1918-1925), as mentioned, were all-rivet construction. The Electric Boat-built Porpoises (1933-1937) had been built to an all-welded design. Conservative engineers and shipfitters at the Government yards stuck with tried and true riveting. Electric Boat's method proved superior, providing a stronger and tighter boat, as well as preventing leakage of fuel oil tanks after depth charge attacks. Finally convinced of the efficacy of Electric Boat's innovation, Government yards finally converted wholesale to welding for their three Salmons and the Navy was entirely happy with the results.

God Bless Electric Boat! :up:

[Hylander_1314]

So 400 ft for an S-boat isn't out of the question?

Is each boat given a random/different crush depth when you start a mission or campaign?

Out of the question? No. Advisable? I wouldn't recommend making it a habit.

Based on logbook entries, Ducimus made it so boats could go beyond test depth and survive. As newer better designed boats came along, they could go deeper than previous designs.

But remember, if your boat is damaged, your operating depth will be affected.

[Dignan]

Out of the question? No. Advisable? I wouldn't recommend making it a habit.

Based on logbook entries, Ducimus made it so boats could go beyond test depth and survive. As newer better designed boats came along, they could go deeper than previous designs.

But remember, if your boat is damaged, your operating depth will be affected.

Thanks guys. I also noticed that the red "test depth" needle on the depth gauge sits at about 450 in my S-boat. I assume this is part of TMO and not an accident? That's why I decided to really put the hull to the test.

[Roger Dodger]

Thanks guys. I also noticed that the red "test depth" needle on the depth gauge sits at about 450 in my S-boat. I assume this is part of TMO and not an accident? That's why I decided to really put the hull to the test.

I just checked my depth gauge for S-Boats (S-18 class and S-42) by running one War Patrol and one Single Mission. Both showed the 'Red Line' at 196'. If yours is indeed showing 450', then there is something defiantly wrong with your display.

I looked into some of the files in the game for references to the Depth Gauges, and found:
From: Data/Menu/cfg/Dials.cfg

[Dial24]
; will be changed by code
Name=DeepDepthFdbk
Type=75; DIAL_DEPTH_INTERNATIONAL
Cmd=Set_depth_dial_international,Crew
Dial=0x3F1F0001
CrtVal=0x3F1F0002
NewVal=0x3F1F0003
DialVal=-150,150; -163,163
RealVal=15,165; 0,450; meters (sh3) -> feet (sh4)
Circular=Yes

There are references to Instruments (Equipment 3 to 7), but I don't know what they are referring to, and can't find any link to anything like NSS_Instrument anywhere else.

From: Data/Submarine/NSS_s18/NSS_S18.eqp
[Equipment 3]
NodeName=I01
LinkName=NSS_Instrument01
StartDate=19240403
EndDate=19451029

The program may have confused the Depth Gauges between the S-Boats and the Balao class boats (Test Depth = 400').

[stanger]

It's in submarine\sub_class\sub-class.cfg file: there are periscope, crash and max depth values specified. First red line on depth gauge is peri depth, second --crash depth, with max depth set deeper than crash - its how deeper, below crush depth you can go before game will consider collapsing or telescoping your hull ;)

[Roger Dodger]

It's in submarine\sub_class\sub-class.cfg file: there are periscope, crash and max depth values specified. First red line on depth gauge is peri depth, second --crash depth, with max depth set deeper than crash - its how deeper, below crush depth you can go before game will consider collapsing or telescoping your hull ;)

Thanks, Stanger. Here is the (partial) file from NSS_S18.cfg:

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=14.5;meters
SnorkelDepth=9.75;meters
CrashDepth=48.8;meters
MaxDepth=60;meters
SurfaceDepth=5.562;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=30;meters
StormConditions=9,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

Dignan should check this file (and the NSS_S42.cfg) to be sure they are reading "MaxDepth=60;meters".

If Dignan doesn't 'do' metric (like most Americans), just think 'yards'. A meter is only about 3.5 inches longer than a yard.

[Dignan]

Thanks, Stanger. Here is the (partial) file from NSS_S18.cfg:

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=14.5;meters
SnorkelDepth=9.75;meters
CrashDepth=48.8;meters
MaxDepth=60;meters
SurfaceDepth=5.562;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=30;meters
StormConditions=9,0.1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

Dignan should check this file (and the NSS_S42.cfg) to be sure they are reading "MaxDepth=60;meters".

If Dignan doesn't 'do' metric (like most Americans), just think 'yards'. A meter is only about 3.5 inches longer than a yard.

Ok, I checked my files. Stock is consistent, TMO is consistent with what you all have listed here. It's OTC_TMO25 version that is the culprit. MaxDepth is showing 1000 meters. Not sure why that mod alters the submarine folder. Anyone see any reason I can't just delete that folder from the mod and reinstall?

EDIT: So I just copied the Submarine folder from TMO and overwrote the Submarine folder files in OTC mod. That seemed to do the trick. The red test depth line now reads 200 or something close to there. Took it for a test dive to about 320ft for about 10 minutes. She held but was groaning and moaning. THanks for identifying the offending file for me. I'm sure Cap'n' Scurvy didn't realize this was in his mod.

[Roger Dodger]

Ok, I checked my files. Stock is consistent, TMO is consistent with what you all have listed here. It's OTC_TMO25 version that is the culprit. MaxDepth is showing 1000 meters. Not sure why that mod alters the submarine folder. Anyone see any reason I can't just delete that folder from the mod and reinstall?

EDIT: So I just copied the Submarine folder from TMO and overwrote the Submarine folder files in OTC mod. That seemed to do the trick. The red test depth line now reads 200 or something close to there. Took it for a test dive to about 320ft for about 10 minutes. She held but was groaning and moaning. THanks for identifying the offending file for me. I'm sure Cap'n' Scurvy didn't realize this was in his mod.

It can be quite a puzzle trying to unscramble the spaghetti mill of references and files just to get to the right place to attempt a fix. All respects to Ducimus, Lurker, Capt. Scurvy, and many others for their hard work.

I'm still thinkin' that a random number is generated after passing test depth. Next time you try a test dive, you could implode at 225'.

Good Hunting!

[TorpX]

I'm still thinkin' that a random number is generated after passing test depth. Next time you try a test dive, you could implode at 225'.

You could be right. I am reluctant to push to sub down to the last foot. What would be gained, after all?

In RL, even if the hull could take the pressure, you would likely have "minor failures" of flanges, seals, and such.

[Kongo Otto]

I want to, but I can't. I am disabled and living on a fixed income. Any expense for computer games is out of the question, at least for now.

Hi, if you are still in need for SH4 1.5 i could give you one of mine (i have 2 copies of it).
It's a SH 4 Gold edition. Just PM me your Adress and i will send it to you.

[Melonfish]

Hi,
just installed TMO 2.5 over 1.5 and i'm loving it so far, do have a couple of questions tho.
when i command man the deck/flak gun. nobody moves, is this normal? same when general order is called.
also when i dive my bridge crew are all still on the bridge even when i'm at like 200 ft?
again is this normal?
otherwise its a very nice mod enjoying it muchly :D
pete

[Hylander_1314]

Not sure what you mean in your first question. Do you mean that the crew doesn't target anything? If so, you either have to lock onto a target with the binoculars, by lining them up on the target, and pressing the spacebar, or go to the deckgun menu via the icon to the lower left, and click on automatic targeting. Same goes for the AA gun, via its icon. Also if the target is out of range, they won't fire on it. Remember, the deck gun, and AA gun(s) are short range gear. Gotta be up close and personal to shoot at stuff.

As for the crew not clearing the bridge, TMO usually doesn't have that issue, as it was a stock bug that got sorted out long ago. Although, it could happen still if you ALT + TAB out of the game. Also, if you do ALT + TAB out of the game submerged, it can cause the game to not recognize when you surface, to clear the CO2, and the only way to solve it, is to save the game, exit out, and restart the game, and don't ALT + TAB out of the game unless you have to.

Hope this helps!

[Armistead]

I think Hylander covered it well. If you plan on any long range shooting, you'll have to man the gun yourself. I've taken out merchants at 10,000 yards.

[BigWalleye]

Once again, the completely useless crew. "Hey, skipper, we can't shoot. Come'ere an' point the gun for us." Just like real. A real arcade game, that is.