when should i remove the deckgun?

[gross14]

hello my fellow kaleuns:)

Do anyone of y'all know when i should remove my deckgun so that i can buy a larger conningtower? I have a VIIc in late -44. I would like to keep my gun but all the larger ships have bigger or more guns than me:damn: but the RAF and USAAF is killing me with their plans:rotfl:

[Grayson02sept1980]

you sure you want to rebuild your U-Boat into a flak cruiser? :rotfl:

[bigboywooly]

Historically around 43 they were removed as not much use any more
Some kept them but not many

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

when should i remove the deckgun?

:o
NEVER!!!! :arrgh!:

[Brag]

Mohr, I figured you would say that! Where have you been, we've missed you. :D

[gross14]

:lol: ok thanks for the answers. But if i remove my gun will the sub travel faster submerged?

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

Mohr, I figured you would say that! Where have you been, we've missed you. :D i have been here.... and ofcourse i would say that, the deck gun is part of my life :D

@gross14: no it wont, with or without the speed stays the same ;)

[Keelbuster]

Keep the deck gun. It's invaluable. The most distressing part of the XXI (aside from the broken features) is the lack of a deck gun.

[Tessa]

hello my fellow kaleuns:)

Do anyone of y'all know when i should remove my deckgun so that i can buy a larger conningtower? I have a VIIc in late -44. I would like to keep my gun but all the larger ships have bigger or more guns than me:damn: but the RAF and USAAF is killing me with their plans:rotfl:

The IXD2's are bout the only boats that can put up serious amount of flak and take out those pesky planes. Later in the war they either get pissed off that you're downing too many of their bombers or stubborn and start sending multiple squadrons after you. If you can down the planes best it does for you is buy you time to submerge and change course so they won't find anything when they come back looking.

[HundertzehnGustav]

when should i remove the deckgun?

:o
NEVER!!!! :arrgh!:

1++++++

NEVER.

[danurve]

:lol: ok thanks for the answers. But if i remove my gun will the sub travel faster submerged?

No.

From what I understand posted by experienced modders and players alike, that is not something the game engine can do.

[papa_smurf]

As im currently just starting in 41 with a type IX/C, i'll never remove my deck gun. But once you start getting armed merchants, its pointless trying to out shoot them as your likely to come out worse off.
(I know, as i tried to to take on a Liberty ship with my deck gun - not a good result for me:doh: )

[fat jez]

:lol: ok thanks for the answers. But if i remove my gun will the sub travel faster submerged?
No.

From what I understand posted by experienced modders and players alike, that is not something the game engine can do.

Aren't the U-boat speeds governable by a config file somewhere? Obviously this couldn't be an "on the fly" change in game, but isn't it an option in SH Commander to remove the deck gun? Would it be possible for the max submerged speed to be tweaked by a knot or two when removing the deck gun?

Apologies if I'm talking rubbish.

Cheers,
Stephen

[difool2]

Keep the deck gun. It's invaluable. The most distressing part of the XXI (aside from the broken features) is the lack of a deck gun.

It is possible to finish off damaged ships with the 20mm of the XXI. Just the other night I nailed a Liberty Ship with a keel shot, but after a 45 degree list she just didn't go down. Surfaced on the high side of the ship (so that her guns couldn't depress to shoot me), and she went down after 400 rounds.

[Antiacus]

I have to wonder about the game engine's modeling of gun crew behavior on merchant ships.

I'd like to know if those guns were manned at all times when underway. If not, i think it would take a minimum of 2 minutes, and often up to 5 minutes to actually get one into action.

I never fought in WW2 but i was a crewman on a ship that served in ww2. As an example, it took us at least 8 minutes to get a .50 cal manned, mounted, loaded & into action from the word "go". Of course we had to drag it topside from the Gunnersmates locker but that took only 3-4 minutes.

As an experienced sailor it just feels like things all around happen too quickly in this game. In heavy seas things are 2 or even 3 times slower than in calm seas, depending on the evolution.

I could be wrong, but it seems that a u-boat crew that is prepared could easily surface, man the deck gun, and get several rounds off before an unprepared merchant crew could get lead headed the other way. If the guns were permanently manned & ready I'll concede it couldn't be done.

[Kipparikalle]

Keep the deck gun, it can save you on the worst-case situations sometimes.


This is an example which happened to me 2 days ago: You have attacked a convoy, but now you have a DD chasing you. It keeps pinging you, even after it has run out of DC's long time ago, you can't get it off from you, it runs you mad, and you must do something. Fast.

Here's what I did:
-I set my brains run on rage - mode
-Surfaced my boat
-Turned on the surprised DD, and blowed the **** out of it.

But note that you must aim on the waterline, and on the ship's main cannons. Some DD's can be sunk by deck gun real easily, even on GWX! If you just know where to shoot.


So yes, keep the deck gun. You never know when you need it.

:arrgh!:

[nikbear]

I guarantee the minute you remove the deck gun you will get into a situation when you could use it:damn: and for no increase in underwater speed,why bother:hmm:

[danurve]

fat jez; Sure there's lots of things you can tweek in the game. All Im saying is if you remove the deck-gun when you have Commander open, the game (engine) makes no other changes, to my knowledge.
I tweek the salvo to something that makes more sence & ahead-slow to 50 rpms for silent running. I would consider a slight % tweek for removing the deck gun if I knew what file to edit. But then again I like the old 88 and if you go faster underwater you might as well leave a trail of pop-corn.

[Jimbuna]

Keep the deck gun. It's invaluable. The most distressing part of the XXI (aside from the broken features) is the lack of a deck gun.

What broken features/version of the game ? http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1817/thinkbigsw1yo4.gif

[fat jez]

But then again I like the old 88 and if you go faster underwater you might as well leave a trail of pop-corn.

Indeed, but there are times if you are maneuvering against a target underwater where the extra speed would be nice. i.e. if you've winged a merchant and he's running away and you really don't want shelled by him on the surface.

Cheers,
Stephen

[Tessa]

:lol: ok thanks for the answers. But if i remove my gun will the sub travel faster submerged?
No.

From what I understand posted by experienced modders and players alike, that is not something the game engine can do.

Aren't the U-boat speeds governable by a config file somewhere? Obviously this couldn't be an "on the fly" change in game, but isn't it an option in SH Commander to remove the deck gun? Would it be possible for the max submerged speed to be tweaked by a knot or two when removing the deck gun?

Apologies if I'm talking rubbish.

Cheers,
Stephen

At the speeds that the boats travel removing the deck gun wouldn't have a noticealbe effect until you reach extremely high speeds. Underwater between the deck gun and the tower the gun will create a ripple that would cause enough drag to slow the boat down; though it would need to be at speeds faster than a u-boat can travel, at least 200-300 mph for the force between the two to cause enough of a force to drag caused by the ripple to slow the boat down. It isn't tell you get to the type XVII's that the boats become streamlines for underwater speed. Prior to that you could compare the common type VII's to a regular Dogfighter (like a P-51 or Spitfire) to a swept wing (like the Mess. 262) that were aerodynamic and designed to fly at (relatively) very high speeds.

[STEED]

Get rid of out right less detection and more room in your U-Boat to build another toilet. :lol:

[Kipparikalle]

Get rid of out right less detection and more room in your U-Boat to build another toilet. :lol:
And you better build a toilet that can be used while being on deep, and during DC bombings :up:

[gross14]

:D ok thanks everybody:D i think i'll keep my beloved '88 and keep sinking merchants until to the end:rotfl:

[danurve]

Interesting thing about the deck gun from a patrol I just finished.

GWX 1.03 early Nov. `41 S/E BE I'm lined up to slam a large merchant & a liberty. A bloody pass/cargo cuts the path and two fish hit her, she stops but remains afloat. Two other shots for the liberty score. I got a swan looking for me, she's burning. I zoom in on her and she's showing deck gun hits. After a bit the liberty goes down and the swan putters away, U-47 is out of eels. Without the 88 I think to have waisted time with the flak guns. Finished her with 10 or so shots. Also the h-phone has a still contact about 1200m to the North. The map shows a grey sunk ship a bit closer. Being curious I made my way to discover a sitting duck whale-factory.
Free tonnage :|\\
She also showed deck gun hits. Oviously the convoy had a run in with a a/i u-boat.
My point is without the 88 I would have been short what 12-13k off a 56k total patrol.

[Jimbuna]

If a ship is stopped dead in the water and is armed with one deck gun fore or aft.....approach from the opposite end and finish her off.

[Kipparikalle]

If a ship is stopped dead in the water and is armed with one deck gun fore or aft.....approach from the opposite end and finish her off.
Indeed.


And if your out of deck gun ammo, use the AA machinegun's.
Works usually, due to limits of SH3 the ships still have the hitpoint system.

[predavolk]

If a ship is stopped dead in the water and is armed with one deck gun fore or aft.....approach from the opposite end and finish her off.
Indeed.


And if your out of deck gun ammo, use the AA machinegun's.
Works usually, due to limits of SH3 the ships still have the hitpoint system.

Theoretically, you could sink even a passage liner with 20mm if you pumped enough of it into it! A battleship or armored ships, perhaps not, but punching 100-200 1" holes into the side of a ship will not help it float!