SH4 1.5

[Webster]

the very idea of having to pay for a mod goes against everything this community is about.

it is my belief that we are about freely sharing ideas and talent so that all of us can have the best and most enjoyable naval simulation game experience possible.

once we begin paying for mods and patches we will start a process of prostitution of all shared content and destroy what this community is about. allow them to charge for one download (even if it only costs $1) and you will have to start buying every mod and talent sharing will be at an end.


EDIT: in order to understand the context in which this thread was originally created, please read below:

you must understand that at the time i posted this thread ubisoft was saying that there was a stand alone patch 1.5 that was built into the new u-boat missions expansion pack and it would be released soon as a stand alone patch but then they started acting like it never existed to begin with.

this thread was to protest about ubisoft not wanting to offer the patch for free download as long as they were making money selling it as part of the u-boat expansion. (thats just smart buisness sense)

my intention is not to imply you shouldnt buy the u-boat expansion but rather i just wanted everyone to hold off on purchasing it in protest just untill ubisoft relented and released the stand alone patch version. (this was a misunderstanding on my part about what UBM was all about)

ubisoft's official stance is that patch 1.5 never actually existed and UBM 1.5 is only an expansion with game enhancements and they have no plans to ever create another stand alone patch because 1.4 was the last patch they will make, so this post has kinda lost its purpose for being.

as time has gone by it has become much missunderstood what my intentions were in making this thread so i added this EDIT to clarify my opinion, which over time has changed somewhat as i learned more about the expansion and what it actually did to the game.

[Pirate]

I really don't aggree with you.
For us it's entertainment, for them it's work.
I guess you don't work for free for your boss either.

Oh, and SH4 UBoat Missions it's not simply a mod... it much more than that - it's patch and an addon. Which has changes to the game that I very doubt any modder could do cause we don't have access to the source code.

[CCIP]

How is SH4 1.5 a mod, especially if it introduces notable engine optimizations and hardcode modifications, along with new engine features.

Can a mod do this? I don't think so. Don't underestimate the resources that went into this.

Likewise, "this community" - what do the devs have to do with that?

...oh let's see, how about the fact that there would be no community without their work? Don't confuse. There is mods and then there's commercial development. This is absolutely neccesary for the community to function.

[tater]

I'd mod stuff regardless. As far as I'm concerned, they can repackage and sell anything I've published to date. They need to make a living so that we have something to mod in the first place.

[Madox58]

100% with you there Tater.
I didn't buy the 1.5 patch.
I bought the U-Boat expansion.
The 1.5 patch just came with it.
I'd poke my eyes out if we don't see a 1.5 aside from the expansion
sooner or later.
From a purely business aspect?
What I see makes perfect sense.
Heck, I'd do the same thing!!
Get a few bucks for the expansion (Patch included)
Once sales go down, release the patch.
Covers costs, increases interest in the expansion,
get better feed back on both.
Your not going anywhere.
You'll still be around for the 1.5 patch release.
And when it's free?
You'll grab it.
I said it before, I'll say it again.
(And NO! I'm not saying you Guys are putting out bad stuff!!;) )
Ubi should think about the
Field of Dreams thing.
If We build it?
The Modders will come!!
Thanks to all the Dev's!
You gave me a whole 4 months of things to play with.
:up:
:rotfl:

[DS]

Those devs make great sub sims. I'd pay once, I'd pay double, I'd pay double twice over. It's worth it to keep them coming. I do NOT in any way whatsoever or even imaginable feel even the slightist bit cheated by U-Boat Missions.

[Webster]

100% with you there Tater.
I didn't buy the 1.5 patch.
I bought the U-Boat expansion.
The 1.5 patch just came with it.
I'd poke my eyes out if we don't see a 1.5 aside from the expansion
sooner or later.
From a purely business aspect?
What I see makes perfect sense.
Heck, I'd do the same thing!!
Get a few bucks for the expansion (Patch included)
Once sales go down, release the patch.
Covers costs, increases interest in the expansion,
get better feed back on both.
Your not going anywhere.
You'll still be around for the 1.5 patch release.
And when it's free?
You'll grab it.


well there is the very crux of the matter, if ubi sees that they can make $ selling the patch then they have no incentive to release it for free. quite the opposite in fact, it would not make sense to give it away for free if they (us) are willing to pay for it.

the u-boat expansion is worth paying for and i think should be selling for $20 instead of the $10 they ask for. they deserve to get rewarded for their hard work, but when they dont freely release the 1.5 patch and you can only get it with the expansion, i am afraid it will set a president of charging for patches from now on.

if they release the 1.5 patch for free then i will be very happy to be wrong but i just worry that it gives ubi an incentive to charge us for all future patches.

[vanjast]

[quote=privateer]....but i just worry that it gives ubi an incentive to charge us for all future patches.

At their own risk... cos I certainly will not buy SH3/4 'vanilla disasters' that they were, when these games first came out. They had better produce free patches to correct their misguided business policies.
:)

[M. Sarsfield]

once we begin paying for mods and patches we will start a process of prostitution of all shared content and destroy what this community is about. allow them to charge for one download (even if it only costs $1) and you will have to start buying every mod and talent sharing will be at an end.

I remember these arguments from the pre-SH3 days. I have yet to see any company charge for a patch and the add-on is a lot more than a patch.

[Torpex752]

I disagree also..sorry.

I bought the U-Boat add-on and It didnt bother me one bit. Back when SH1 came out they put out "add-on" discs and nobody had an 'itch" about it.

So IMHO .....its not new.......its not a big deal.....I like sub sims....I'll support their efforts.

Frank

[Webster]

I have yet to see any company charge for a patch and the add-on is a lot more than a patch.

well unless you can show me where i can get the stand alone 1.5 patch download, you are seeing it right now. ubi is saying you cant have the patch unless you buy my expansion so pay up sucker! at this time i dont see anything from them saying they have any plans to release the 1.5 patch for free.

i have no problem with them charging for the uboat expansion, but i do not like when they simply deny the 1.5 patch to anyone who doesnt pay up for an expansion.

i have sh3 already so if i want uboats i play it but i want the 1.5 patch to fix problems with sh4 but cant get it. there is no reason not to release the patch as a stand alone download. as it stands now there is no other reason but they want to make money off of it.

[Go4It]

The add-on has been avalible from other sources.

Read between the lines....

[DrBeast]

I'm with WEBSTER on this. The patch should be released free of charge. It's for the core game, which I've already paid for, and remedies flaws that shouldn't be there to begin with. And please, don't give me the "that's how this business works" mantra, cause it's us consumers that have let the publishers get away with this attitude. If we all acted smart, there wouldn't be this fiasco of patches being released just days after a game's initial release.

[gimpy117]

what makes me mad is that you can't get the 1.5 patch without shelling out 9.99!!
and if you can...link please!!

[Nicolas]

Its not the same doing a patch for SH 4 alone, that doing it in conjunction with an addon, the new sh4.exe must have a lot of code for the addon. I mean, i dont think the patch works for sh4 without addon, if it works its crazy if they dont release it for free.

[AkbarGulag]

Fear the paid patch.

[wetwarev7]

It's 10 bucks.

It had addon content.

I feel I got my money's worth.

If it were anyone besides Ubisoft, I wouldn't have bought it(like the SH3 'expansion' which was a bunch of free mods stuck together).

[AVGWarhawk]

Who dug this up? BTW, best $10.00 I spent in a while. I see years of enjoyment for $10.00.

[Webster]

Who dug this up? BTW, best $10.00 I spent in a while. I see years of enjoyment for $10.00.

the add-on is indeed a very good bargain at $10 and well worth it, the "patch" however is only available if you buy this add-on.
until the patch is available as a free stand alone then it is in fact a "patch with added content" that you must pay for.

my take is that ubisoft is now saying that it wont fix any more flaws in a game you already paid for, unless you will pay us more money, oh and by the way,
just to get you used to paying extra for something you already bought we will give you added content so you feel better and now that you are used to paying extra we can do this will all our games from now on.

no more free patches for games, suckers! ha ha ha!

i heard opinions saying the patch will be available as a stand alone soon, well it has been out for a while and it doesnt look like that will ever happen. as for it not working without the add-on, game fixes are not dependant on additional content so this is not the problem. the problem is that people are way too happy to shell out another $10 to buy a patch that should be free only because you get additional content that goes with it. if they want more revenue then thats great, more power to them but release the patch as a "free" standalone to fix the game that never worked right from day one. im not anti-add-on but i am against the "you cant have the patch without buying the add-on" attitude from ubisoft.

EDIT: ubisoft also knows that soon most mods will be made to work for the 1.5 patch and many mods wont be usable untill you buy the 1.5 patch with the added content, this makes "buying" the patch with added content even more necessary.

[CaptainHaplo]

I work in a business where part of what I do is deal with software. We have various VERSIONS of software - but just because one is a later version - does NOT mean its a "patch" applied to something earlier. 1.5 is a seperate VERSION of software. There is no 1.5 patch because what is BUILT into the engine of 1.5 is not compatible without the elements of the UBM. Yes - the core is still there - but the core has been changed to deal with new elements and variables.

This idea that there should be a 1.5 "patch" is based purely off version numbers. Everyone has assumed that because 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4 were true patches - that is they rewrote hardcoded data to fix issues, 1.5 must be the same. That assumption is false. 1.5 is rewritten to have the engine do NEW things - and thus in reality what 1.5 really is - is SH4 V2.0 - an incremental true VERSION. The fact is that 1.4 and below did not have the additional handles needed to have "the flip side" playable.

What I hear is people want things like the faster load time, engine enhancements, etc - without the added in flip side - for free. I understand that. But those enhancements were not developed for SH4 v1.x - so if you want it - go to the next level. If you don't. then sit down with 1.4 that you have had for QUITE a while and have enjoyed and hush. SH4 had a total of 4 patches. By 1.4 they had ironed out a HUGE number of bugs, plus gave us all a slew of enhancements. 4 patches for a product of this scope vs its sales numbers is actually danged good. The enhancements were created to enable new content - not for the "old" version. Could they be applied retroactively? Probably. But the fact is that the devs with 1.4 had a stable, well working and playing program as the consumer expected. Product cycle finished. Yes, I know all about Ubi making the big bucks while we languish with only an occasional sim. I am not UBI-hugging here - the fact is the industry has a product cycle designed in - and unless the game is a huge seller, continued patches don't go past what is designed in. Regardless of developer/publisher.

So this idea that 1.5 is some patch/mod hybrid is a fallacy. Its a reworked game engine to accomplish new things in addition to the old. That constitutes a new VERSION - and any developer/publisher has a right to charge for a new version of the software, without new content or with it. Not so with a simple PATCH that fixes bugs.

Also - what "Bugs" were fixed in 1.5 that were present in 1.4 that were so glaring that there was a requirement for a "patch" in the first place? Seems that 1.4 has been for a long time what many of us wanted in a PTO subsim - a very stable and enjoyable product - just what we paid for.

As for mods going 1.5 compatible - is it UBI's fault that people want to use the latest and greatest? The fact is the 1.4 version of mods out there make for great gameplay as is. Lets drop the anti-corporate rants huh?

[rcjonessnp175]

Im not happy at all with 1.5, paid ten bucks for something that doesnt work, look at the ubi forums and ull see alot of problems with vista and 8800gtx cards and the infamous nvdlllm drive error, 1.4 runs flawless for me and i really wanted the 1.5 to work but im done and totally frustrated, im sticking with 1.4 and figure out how to get 1.5 mods to work with 1.4 .:damn::damn::damn:

the world evolves around money and its sick.


Jonesy

[Webster]

I work in a business where part of what I do is deal with software. We have various VERSIONS of software - but just because one is a later version - does NOT mean its a "patch" applied to something earlier. 1.5 is a seperate VERSION of software. There is no 1.5 patch because what is BUILT into the engine of 1.5 is not compatible without the elements of the UBM. Yes - the core is still there - but the core has been changed to deal with new elements and variables.

Lets drop the anti-corporate rants huh?

well from the very begining ubisoft had advertised it on their website as an add-on with "patch 1.5" already built in, so this was started by them in the first place.

ubisoft has since removed any mention of the word patch or v1.5 from the u-boat expansion pack description, which i have no doubt is a direct result of the complaints about not having a free download version for patch v1.5.

as it is advertised today, it is only promoted as an expansion pack for sh4 with game enhancements so no mention is made anymore about the "patch".

had ubisoft never declared the existance of a patch 1.5 then no one would be looking for it. they run a buisness and it is not good for buisness to give something away for free if people want to pay for it so maybe they decided to not make patch 1.5 available so that the u-boat expansion would sell better.
then again maybe the patch1.5 caused just as many problems as it fixed if it were used without the add-on, so it cant be seperated from it.

[CaptainHaplo]

First off, my original post was a bit spur of the moment, so if it was a bit strong I regret it. With that said - UBI screwed up by calling it 1.5 - had they simply said "expansion" or SH4 V2.0 then the issue would be moot. I dunno about what they claimed regarding it being a "patch" - if thats what they called it then its their own fault - but lets face it - those sales and marketting folks screw stuff up all the time. Doesn't excuse em for it though.

The biggest thing you hit on is that 1.5 has alot of bugs. Your right - it does. In many ways 1.5 is less reliable than 1.4 - for example - the CO2 bug. Thankfully I am sure that there will be a further "patch" to UBM. One is almost always budgeted in. The question then will be is it only for UBM users, or will they make a seperate "stripped" version for the original SH4. My money is on 1.4 being the final patch for SH4 in its original incarnation, and any future patch will be for UBM only.

Is it fair or right? Debatable. But think of it this way. Basically all of us who paid our money for UBM, would be financing a "standalone" patch for those that didn't buy it. It may be called the free market - but that ain't what it means!

In the end, we may just have to agree to disagree on this. Either way, obviously I am not unhappy about the $ I spent all things considered, though I do want some bug fixes put out for UBM. *Actuallly - there is one "performance" fix that I have been screaming for since SH3 - so I shouldn't hold my breath.

[LtCmdrRat]

I think $10 for good modification and real "expansion" is a fair price. I paid it.
Another guy who doesnt have a money will steal it by downloading it from torrents sites:arrgh!: or renting it from friends. Gamer's addiction is like drug addiction, alas.
Patch was included in Expansion pack. You can pay - you can steal- or you can rent from friends. Its just a point of choice. Case closed.
PS what is 10 bucks now? 3 or less gallons of gazoline?

[THE_MASK]

please dont patronize those who wish to charge you for a mod patch.

the very idea of having to pay for a mod goes against everything this community is about.

it is my belief that we are about freely sharing ideas and talent so that all of us can have the best and most enjoyable naval simulation game experience possible.

once we begin paying for mods and patches we will start a process of prostitution of all shared content and destroy what this community is about. allow them to charge for one download (even if it only costs $1) and you will have to start buying every mod and talent sharing will be at an end. The only problem is , the patch part is about 1% and 99% is great new stuff modders could never had done in there wildest dreams . If 1.4 was the last patch , then i am real glad that i have the opertunity for some extra stuff over and beyond the patches . Now that the patches are/probably finished , keep the addons coming .

[LukeFF]

Is it fair or right? Debatable.

Heck, Ubi has been doing this for years with the IL-2 Sturmovik series, and hardly anyone has batted an eye about it. Yeah, there's always those grumblers, but overall the majority of the community is running the latest version of the game.

[kiwi_2005]

The 1.5 uboat was only $10 for most of yous which is damn cheap, it cost me in NZ $30! Yet i didn't even need to think about wether i should buy it.

[Hitman]

Heck, Ubi has been doing this for years with the IL-2 Sturmovik series, and hardly anyone has batted an eye about it. Yeah, there's always those grumblers, but overall the majority of the community is running the latest version of the game.

LOL not to mention EA sports in all its branches: Soccer, Hockey, Basket....

Or Papyrus in the famous NASCAR Racing series....

Or Quake...

:lol:

[Webster]

Heck, Ubi has been doing this for years with the IL-2 Sturmovik series, and hardly anyone has batted an eye about it. Yeah, there's always those grumblers, but overall the majority of the community is running the latest version of the game.

LOL not to mention EA sports in all its branches: Soccer, Hockey, Basket....

Or Papyrus in the famous NASCAR Racing series....

Or Quake...

its not about paying for expansions, hell the expansion was a gift at $10, its worth $30 easy, but as i stated before ubi put it out and advertised it as a u-boat expansion pack "WITH UPDATE 1.5 BUILT IN" so thats what stuck in my craw.

ubi created my desire for the now non-existant patch 1.5 by talking about it only to say now that it cant be had without buying the expansion, and they now are calling it "game enhancements" rather that saying its a patch. i dont want u-boats, i own sh3 so i have all the u-boats i need.

i don't know what changed their minds, maybe the new patch 1.5 files wouldnt work right with the stock game unless they worked out some glitches with it so rather than invest any more time working on it they decided to stop all mention of a patch 1.5 existing in an attempt to avoid people like me wanting it and feeling slighted.

as it stands right now, i feel i have to buy an expansion i dont want just to get all the latest game fixes and be compatable with most of the available mods being created.

if they could enhance the game with the expansion, then they know how to put together a patch to further improve the stock game. the work has already been done in the making of the u-boat expansion, its just a matter of putting the files together for downloading.

just to be clear about this:
im not intending to be slamming ubi on this, i just feel very dissappointed that they chose to not create the stand alone patch 1.5

[LukeFF]

i just feel very dissappointed that they chose to not create the stand alone patch 1.5

Hello, earth to reality here! There would be no reason for people to buy the expansion if they put out a 1.5 patch.

[Webster]

Hello, earth to reality here! There would be no reason for people to buy the expansion if they put out a 1.5 patch.

well how about the entire added u-boat content and new missions that makes up 90% of the expansion?

i must assume you didnt buy the uboat add-on or you would know that it is mostly new content with u-boats added and some game fixes. these game fixes is what i refering to as patch 1.5.

many of the game fixes are added to correct existing flaws in the game itself and not just for the newly added content. yes some of the new content caused glitches that required tweaking but overall they had a set of needed game fixes that would solve issues with the stock game. they made a decission not to allow us these fixes unless we bought the add-on in which case it was a free bonus.

[LukeFF]

i must assume you didnt buy the uboat add-on or you would know that it is mostly new content with u-boats added and some game fixes. these game fixes is what i refering to as patch 1.5.

many of the game fixes are added to correct existing flaws in the game itself and not just for the newly added content. yes some of the new content caused glitches that required tweaking but overall they had a set of needed game fixes that would solve issues with the stock game. they made a decission not to allow us these fixes unless we bought the add-on in which case it was a free bonus.
First off, yes, I did buy the add-on.

Secondly, please do name for us all of these game fixes that came with 1.5. Only one I know of that has ever come to light is the fix for the missing dial textures in the Gato conning tower. While I am strongly against the idea that it's entirely up to modders to correct bugs with the game, there was a fix for this bug way before 1.5 was released.

So, do tell us, what other fixes came with 1.5 that those who have not purchased the add-on are being deprived of?

[Rockin Robbins]

Privateer said it best.
100% with you there Tater.
I didn't buy the 1.5 patch.
I bought the U-Boat expansion.
The 1.5 patch just came with it.
I'd poke my eyes out if we don't see a 1.5 aside from the expansion
sooner or later.
From a purely business aspect?
What I see makes perfect sense.
Heck, I'd do the same thing!!
Get a few bucks for the expansion (Patch included)
Once sales go down, release the patch.
Covers costs, increases interest in the expansion,
get better feed back on both.
Your not going anywhere.
You'll still be around for the 1.5 patch release.
And when it's free?
You'll grab it.
I said it before, I'll say it again.
(And NO! I'm not saying you Guys are putting out bad stuff!! )
Ubi should think about the
Field of Dreams thing.
If We build it?
The Modders will come!!
Thanks to all the Dev's!
You gave me a whole 4 months of things to play with.
If Ubi has no income stream it can no longer maintain the product. If you are not willing to support that, stay out of the way of those of us who understand the process. Developers need to eat. Game companies need income. Money is the only honest way to vote on what value we attach to a product. Stealing shows that you find it valueless. Expecting to be catered to for free is naive. We should be glad to pay for the support we are getting for the sim franchise we love.

The add-on was a fabulous value for $10 in the USA and for more than that in Europe. Of course patches relate only to the latest products. Let's see you download patches for Windows 98ME. You expect not to pay for Vista? This is life. You seldom get more than you pay for. SH4UBM is one of the rare examples where the value exceeds the price. My $10 was very well-spent.

Just one improvement in the Fleet Boat side was losing the "All stop" when you load a saved game. Another was much quicker game loading as a result of rewritten game architecture that no amount of modding could achieve.

[Webster]

i especially like the way they sell you a u-boat expansion but it contains no missions for you to play, has numerous bugs and glitches, and as a result of the changes they made, it makes the game no longer compatable with most game mods used for 1.4 yet i see no overall improvement in the game beyond some new content. if the whole purpose was just to add some fantasy german campaign then thats fine but you would hope they could have done that while still making it compatable with 1.4 so other mods would still work. i am all for improving things but if the change will cause more problems than you solve, whats the point?

to be honest i think ubi missed a great chance to repackage sh3 with the great new graffics of sh4 by simply using sh4 environmental graffics files to bring sh3 on par with sh4 visually and calling it sh5 and combining all the improvements done by modders to start with a finished bug free game from the start.

i own sh3 but i would definately buy a new version if it had all the newest graffics and effects along with the bugs ironed out in advance. hell its still not too late, so ubi if your listening, put together a 1.5 for sh3 like i described and you can count on my $$$

[akdavis]

i especially like the way they sell you a u-boat expansion but it contains no missions for you to play, has numerous bugs and glitches, and as a result of the changes they made, it makes the game no longer compatable with most game mods used for 1.4 yet i see no overall improvement in the game beyond some new content. if the whole purpose was just to add some fantasy german campaign then thats fine but you would hope they could have done that while still making it compatable with 1.4 so other mods would still work. i am all for improving things but if the change will cause more problems than you solve, whats the point?


1.5 is the current version of the game and it contains more than just content, as has been explained above.

[Webster]

1.5 is the current version of the game and it contains more than just content, as has been explained above.

i understand the point you wish to make but i wish to point out that according to ubisoft 1.5 is not the current version of the game, according to ubisoft the latest patched version of the sh4 game is 1.4 but you can buy an additional u-boat mission pack that converts the game to 1.5 and will add additional content along with game enhancements.


this is from ubisoft website:

Experience the thrill of the hunt! Prowl the waters as the captain of a German submarine in a never-before-seen theatre of operations – the Indian Ocean. Take part in the war against British supply lines off the coast of North Africa and support the Japanese war against the U.S. Navy.
Developed by Ubisoft Romania, Silent Hunter: Wolves of the Pacific U-Boat Missions is an add-on that extends the gameplay experience by focusing on the historically accurate but largely unknown German U-boat campaign in the Indian Ocean during World War II.

Key Features:

German Campaign in the Indian Ocean: The new campaign spans from July 1943 until the end of the war for Germany in May 1945. Operate from such far-off Japanese naval bases as Penang, Singapore, Jakarta and Surabaya.
Strategic Warfare: Rise in rank and experience, gaining access to new strategic resources, such as recon aircrafts that track down enemy shipping, and battle groups that can help wipe out superior enemy forces.
New Playable Submarines: Take to the seas in new German submarines, including the long-range Type IX-D2 U-boat and the revolutionary Walther propulsion type XVIII U-boat. Learn the strengths and weaknesses of these boats and how you can overcome even elite, late-war allied destroyers with high-speed hit-and-run attacks.
Heroes: Based on actual historical figures, these new crew members add a number of special abilities that can change the fate of battles and save the ship when the time is right, as well as adding historical color to the game.
Better Accessibility: New and improved features such as intelligence information, navigation maps and upgrade systems ensure that U-Boat Missions will give players the expansion they’ve been waiting for.

[Snaptrap]

It's pretty annoying with the amount of people who are whining over an expansion that only costs a few bucks. Besides that the 1.5 patch is so the expansion can work with the game. It doesn't address any issues that may be with v1.4, period. If the game needed to be fixed, they would be making the patch available for free. It's not good business to charge people for your own screwups.

[Rockin Robbins]

I have to come down with Privateer and Haplo. This is an update, worthy of a new version number. Patches change the version number. New versions, like SH4UBM do too. There's no conflict there, just confusion!:88) I'm happy I spent my $10 even though my frame rates are a bit squirrely now. I keep finding more and better ways to die in the Bay of Biscay!:up:

[akdavis]

and as a result of the changes they made, it makes the game no longer compatable with most game mods used for 1.4 yet i see no overall improvement in the game beyond some new content.

Here is the real crux. You complain that because of the worthless and problematic 1.5 version, you can't use mods with 1.4, but if 1.5 were that worthless and problematic, why would anyone make mods for 1.5?

The problem here is that many have become so terribly spoiled by the quality and content of community mods, that anything other than free is going to raise an outcry of "cheats!" and "bloodsuckers!" If the add-on were priced at $1.00, or even .50 cents, the complaints would be exactly the same. Value is not the issue.

If a real world dollar value were to be placed on many of the mods we get for free, it would probably greatly exceed the pocket change cost of 1.5. Just because we get such incredible value for free does not mean it is a good business model.

[Snaptrap]

Here is the real crux. You complain that because of the worthless and problematic 1.5 version, you can't use mods with 1.4, but if 1.5 were that worthless and problematic, why would anyone make mods for 1.5?

The problem here is that many have become so terribly spoiled by the quality and content of community mods, that anything other than free is going to raise an outcry of "cheats!" and "bloodsuckers!" If the add-on were priced at $1.00, or even .50 cents, the complaints would be exactly the same. Value is not the issue.

If a real world dollar value were to be placed on many of the mods we get for free, it would probably greatly exceed the pocket change cost of 1.5. Just because we get such incredible value for free does not mean it is a good business model.

That's because many people don't understand that we don't make a living from creating these programs/mods, they do. It's their job. The company has to charge for a product so these workers can get paid. What if McDonalds or Burger King decided to give away free food? They wouldn't make any money and many of these fricking kids wouldn't get paid. Heck, with all the complaining about the U-Boat Expansion, I should complain that the happy meal is too expensive and that the bloodsucking workers should take a pay cut so I don't have to pay so much for something I feel should be free.

[Monica Lewinsky]

I should complain that the happy meal is too expensive and that the bloodsucking workers should take a pay cut so I don't have to pay so much for something I feel should be free.
No compliants here. Broke down this past Sunday, yesterday, got version 1.5 @ $9.95.

BEST ten bucks I ever spent in the last year - It's real nice. I have ZERO interest in the U-Boat stuff - NONE - the rest of it is GREAT! Have loved what $10 got me for hundreds of hours of future enjoyment.

So if you want it for free, dream-on living in the past.

It's a high quality upgrade and DIRT cheap. :stare:

[Webster]

and as a result of the changes they made, it makes the game no longer compatable with most game mods used for 1.4 yet i see no overall improvement in the game beyond some new content.

Here is the real crux. You complain that because of the worthless and problematic 1.5 version, you can't use mods with 1.4, but if 1.5 were that worthless and problematic, why would anyone make mods for 1.5?

The problem here is that many have become so terribly spoiled by the quality and content of community mods, that anything other than free is going to raise an outcry of "cheats!" and "bloodsuckers!" If the add-on were priced at $1.00, or even .50 cents, the complaints would be exactly the same. Value is not the issue.

If a real world dollar value were to be placed on many of the mods we get for free, it would probably greatly exceed the pocket change cost of 1.5. Just because we get such incredible value for free does not mean it is a good business model.

close but not quite,

first, the mods - what is happening is that most mods are now being made for 1.5 because it changes the game so much that most mods will not work for both 1.4 or 1.5 but instead must be created in a seperate version to work in one or the other. this will result in us being "forced" to buy 1.5 to use the new mods and the community will see a drastic reduction in any mods available for 1.4.

next point - "If the add-on were priced at $1.00, or even .50 cents, the complaints would be exactly the same. Value is not the issue." - i agree with this.

last point - i stated in an earlier post that the misunderstanding about the "patch" vs an expansion only, was cleared up and that my main "gripe" was the misrepresentation by ubi that there was a 1.5 "patch" and that it would be released soon after the ubm came out, it never happened and IMO it never will because it takes too much work.

[Monica Lewinsky]

If the add-on were priced at $1.00, or even .50 cents, the complaints would be exactly the same. Value is not the issue.

You are so dead on right. People think the update/patch/add-on is the FINAL fix to all the prior problems - not gonna happen.

Got 1.5, found real TINY annoyances here and there, but I feel I got my money's worth and more and feel no need to complain.

These gripper's are annoying, egh? :arrgh!:

[Webster]

in order to understand the context in which this thread was originally created, please read below:

you must understand that at the time i posted this thread ubisoft was saying that there was a stand alone patch 1.5 that was built into the new u-boat missions expansion pack and it would be released soon as a stand alone patch but then they started acting like it never existed to begin with.

this thread was to protest about ubisoft not wanting to offer the patch for free download as long as they were making money selling it as part of the u-boat expansion. (thats just smart buisness sense)

my intention is not to imply you shouldnt buy the u-boat expansion but rather i just wanted everyone to hold off on purchasing it in protest just untill ubisoft relented and released the stand alone patch version. (this was a misunderstanding on my part about what UBM was all about)

as time has gone by it has become much missunderstood what my intentions were in making this thread so hopefully this helps to clarify my opinion.

[Monica Lewinsky]

as time has gone by it has become much missunderstood what my intentions were in making this thread so hopefully this helps to clarify my opinion.

We HEAR you. At least I understand your intensions. Hang in there, then we will really beat the crap out of you, thrice over ... and then some ... and put you in an iron coffin with spikes on the inside and roll it down the hill with you in it, twice, to make sure you are dead. :D

You hang in there, man, complain! I enjoy your posts. I enjoy reading your negative points of view. You hang in there and GO! :) :) :)

[Snaptrap]

in order to understand the context in which this thread was originally created, please read below:

you must understand that at the time i posted this thread ubisoft was saying that there was a stand alone patch 1.5 that was built into the new u-boat missions expansion pack and it would be released soon as a stand alone patch but then they started acting like it never existed to begin with.

this thread was to protest about ubisoft not wanting to offer the patch for free download as long as they were making money selling it as part of the u-boat expansion. (thats just smart buisness sense)

my intention is not to imply you shouldnt buy the u-boat expansion but rather i just wanted everyone to hold off on purchasing it in protest just untill ubisoft relented and released the stand alone patch version. (this was a misunderstanding on my part about what UBM was all about)

as time has gone by it has become much missunderstood what my intentions were in making this thread so hopefully this helps to clarify my opinion.

As you can see, this so-called patch is not necessary for any other version of the game besides the one that is being given the U-Boat expansion. I've already done the tour through all the files, and the changes I've seen don't add anything to fix bugs. It's actually illegal for a company to sell a patch which addresses bugs. Changes to the game on the other hand is not and that's all the 1.5 patch does. You don't need the 1.5 patch for the game to work properly.

Regardless, most people will just go download the expansion anyway.

[Monica Lewinsky]

Regardless, most people will just go download the expansion anyway.

AFTER a $9.95 debit to some form of card.

[Snaptrap]

Regardless, most people will just go download the expansion anyway.

AFTER a $9.95 debit to some form of card.

In this day? Yeah right! Fricking wankers are too cheap even to hand out $10 for something that they whine about isn't free.

[Rockin Robbins]

Hum, I don't want to badmouth the addon but look at the UBM forum, what's the most "popular" thread ? Bug thread ! :o I'd rather have to pay 5 more bucks and have less of these "gross" bugs. So supporting the devs yeah, but I'm not too keen on supporting a publisher that rush out products, even if said product is only $10 worth.

But Mikhayl, many of the claimed bugs are not bugs at all! They are people who do not understand the game. And most of the posts are replies to claimed bugs.

[Webster]

Regardless, most people will just go download the expansion anyway.

AFTER a $9.95 debit to some form of card.

In this day? Yeah right! Fricking wankers are too cheap even to hand out $10 for something that they whine about isn't free.

how many times do i have to say it, its not about the $10. (at least for me)

how many ways do i have to say it, its not about the $10. (at least for me)

it is about all future mods not being usable to anyone who isnt using the expansion.

how many 1.5 mods work for 1.4? maybe 1 in 20 if your lucky, so you dont really have a choice at all. you have to buy it to use the mods being made for the game.

i bought the UBM expansion a month ago but i wasnt happy about it because i felt like i had no choice other than be excluded from using any future mods.

[Snaptrap]

Regardless, most people will just go download the expansion anyway.

AFTER a $9.95 debit to some form of card.

In this day? Yeah right! Fricking wankers are too cheap even to hand out $10 for something that they whine about isn't free.

how many times do i have to say it, its not about the $10. (at least for me)

how many ways do i have to say it, its not about the $10. (at least for me)

it is about all future mods not being usable to anyone who isnt using the expansion.

how many 1.5 mods work for 1.4? maybe 1 in 20 if your lucky, so you dont really have a choice at all. you have to buy it to use the mods being made for the game.

i bought the UBM expansion a month ago but i wasnt happy about it because i felt like i had no choice other than be excluded from using any future mods.

I'm actually not talking about you. Besides, it's not their fault people aren't making their mods compatible with the previous version of the game. Even I understand this! That's why I took a poll to see where the community stood in terms of the versions they used. I'd be taking my grievances with the mod makers and only them.

Also, if all the mods are being made to work only with 1.5, then you have nothing to worry about in terms of being excluded from using any future mods.

[Rockin Robbins]

I don't recall any such waves of nostalgia when patch 1.4 replaced 1.3 and all the mods quit working for that. Which leads me to the $10. That's IT! Admit it to yourself. You have known it all along. I am your father, Luke...:smug:

[LukeFF]

it is about all future mods not being usable to anyone who isnt using the expansion.

how many 1.5 mods work for 1.4? maybe 1 in 20 if your lucky, so you dont really have a choice at all. you have to buy it to use the mods being made for the game.

Once the devs have released all the add-ons and patches they can, the modding community by-and-large decides where the game goes from there, and so far, they have said they want mods that are 1.5-compatible. You can't expect them to support an old version of the game just because a very small portion of the community wants them to.

Besides that, what in the world are you complaining about now, if you have the 1.5 add-on?

[Webster]

the difference between the 1.3 & 1.4 update patches is that 1.5 is just a voluntary expansion not a "required" patch. you cant compare expansions to "required" upgrade patches.

after installing 1.5 i have more negative impressions about it than good. yes, it did add more to the game, but brought many more new flaws to the game because ubi sold it in unfinished condition just like they always do. i mean come on, they didnt even include any missions with it. i admit 1.5 has the potential in a year or so to be a great expansion when the mod community fixes it for ubisoft.

[Rockin Robbins]

You have forgotten the "no periscope animations in the conning tower" hysteria after 1.3. All patches and add-ons introduce additional bugs. Computers do the same thing. While fulfilling their promise to eliminate human error, computers merely substituted multitudinous even stupider errors. We would not, therefore, destroy our computers. Error is part of life. We accept it or die.

[Snaptrap]

We accept it or die.

Don't you mean "or turn into ungrateful yuppies with massive hair loss cause by frequent whining"? I understand the position here, but like you said, it's a fact of life to error. Making mods for this game is certainly one way of coming into that understanding.

All I can say is that the developers are doing their best to prevent new bugs from surfacing. It's not an easy task and those who know are those who've done work in relative to file editing or programming. If you can hate the expansion for it's flaws, I'm sure you can love it for everything else.

[Webster]

I understand the position here,


thats all i was trying to do, i should have let this go a while back but felt i needed to convey my position without being dismissed as "frequent whining and crying" about it.

now lets go sink something, good luck and good hunting guys :up:

[Snaptrap]

I understand the position here,


thats all i was trying to do, convey my position without being dismissed as "frequent whining and crying" about it.

now lets go sink something, good luck and hunting guys :up:

It's something we all have to deal with. I'm just glad that a friend of mine introduced me to this game. Though I was familiar with the series, I turned away with the belief that the game was complicated to learn.

One other thing. I never looked at you as being the whiner. I've seen people resort to pathetics over this and by comparison, all you wanted was an answer and an understanding from those around you and you did it in a respectable manner. It's those childish whiners that peeve me so.

[Rockin Robbins]

We accept it or die.
Don't you mean "or turn into ungrateful yuppies with massive hair loss cause by frequent whining"? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

You just explained my whole life!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

No WEBSTER, I'm the whiner in this place and don't you forget it!

[Madox58]

Can you imagine the cries of 'RAPE' should any of the now free mods
not be free?
Look at the complaints when GWX 2.0 was held for donations to SubSim fo a few days!!
Even though it was clearly stated after awhile, anyone could get it free!!!
That a Company gets a few bucks for thier product is how we keep getting
more and more.
And if Ten dollars breaks you?
You have much, MUCH more to worry about!
And when it comes right down to it?
No one forces you to upgrade anything.
That the options of all the GREAT mods are out there for free?
Simpley amazing!
But it's our call if we need to up our systems to use them.
No Mod or add-on FORCES you to up grade your hardware or software.
It simpley says to use it here is what you need.
You make the choice.
Pretty fair to me.

And as gas prices go up?
I expect more people will decide to upgrade thier systems and stay home.
At 4 bucks a gallon?
1.5 is a deal!!

[Madox58]

I'd answer your post...
But that would cost you a dollar!
:rotfl:

[Madox58]

Whiner!!
:rotfl:

[Rockin Robbins]

I am the official whiner around here. If you want to whine I'll have to charge you. :rotfl:

[Sailor Steve]

:rotfl:

I think I'll keep my whining to myself, then. I can't afford you guys!:dead:

And if Ten dollars breaks you?
You have much, MUCH more to worry about!
Well, yes and yes: Ten dollars will break me at the moment, and I DO have much more to worry about!

I'll also be buying the add-on as soon as I have it to spare. It costs less than a movie, popcorn and soda.:sunny:

[Madox58]

Sorry Steve, but I think we have to charge you.
:nope:
Cause you whined even though attempting to NOT whine.
That will be a dollar please.
:rotfl:
You violated RR's Whineing Rights!!
:up:

[d5j55]

Sorry Steve, but I think we have to charge you.
:nope:
Cause you whined even though attempting to NOT whine.
That will be a dollar please.
:rotfl:
You violated RR's Whineing Rights!!
:up:

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:all of the posts are funny i laughed though them all :up: i am now spending the big fat $9.95 on V1.5 as we speak