Adjusting GWX 2.0 Sensor Ranges?

[sabretwo]

GWX 2.0 is incredible...an absolute 'Magnu opus'. That said, there is one thing that is driving me crazy...Running silent (1 knot, under 100 rpm) and 15m deep, 0-degree heads-on aspect, I can't seem to get within 5 kilometers of a convoy without the psychics in the DDs locking onto my position. I have read the threads about GWX sensors and what not, but something isn't right. I enjoy a challenge and have astrong appreciation for realism, but there's no fun in being chased away on every approach long before you have a chance of engaging the convoy. Instead, I find myself resigned to looking for lone merchants (and its 1940)!:damn:

Does anyone know how I can slightly adjust the sensor ranges of the enemy DDs enough to simulate the real limitations of their sensors? (No offense to the GWX team...I think overall you guys have done a great job.)

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

[joea]

Quick comments do you have your periscope up at this time? What is the weather? Time of day?

[onelifecrisis]

If you get inside their active sonar cone they just start pinging you (if they have active sonar). It doesn't matter what your aspect ratio is - that only affects how good of a signal they get back from the ping. It doesn't affect whether or not they start pinging in the first place. They just do, every time. You just have to be in the cone and they ping.

The solution is to not be in the cone in the first place.

[Gezur(Arbeit)]

Press "Z" key :lol:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Also, just because you are being pinged, doesn't always mean that you've been detected.

However, being pinged certainly always makes you FEEL like you've been detected.:lol:

[Dowly]

However, being pinged certainly always makes you FEEL like you've been detected.:lol:

Ditto! Once a sea turtle swam right on to my hull, resulting in a sharp metallic sound that I immediatly though as a sonar, sooo I surfaced, ordered the men to get out and sunk my boat. :yep: BdU wasnt that happy... :nope:

[sabretwo]

Thanks guys for responding to my post.

I don't usually keep the periscope up longer than it takes to scan and see if I'm in visual range yet. I'm pretty conscious of that. In many cases, they seem to be homing in on me before I've even reached visual range.

I know the sonar cone on early sonar is supposed to have a range of about 1200 meters. It seems like they're picking me up long before that. Usually one will start moving in my direction, then when he's about 2-3 kilometers away the party starts and the rest of the escorts begin moving in quickly. (Mind you, I'm figuring this out this from my hydrophone contacts and an occasional peek with the external camera)

What is the range on their hydrophones? Am I more vulnerable to hydrophonic detection at shallower depth? That's the only way I can think they are picking me up. Once I go deep and keep it silent running under 1 kt / 100 rpm, I have no problem escaping.

I don't have the noise meter activated, but I should be quiet enough. (Unless one of my crew on stand-down is snooring too loud :hmm: ..."Wake Dieter up now or put a pillow over his head!")

Thanks!

[Erich Topp]

Never had a problems like this in GWX. Modders are right - there's all ok with AI sensors in GWX. Of course, you're more detectable at periscope depth, than on 100 meters below)) i am in 1940 now in one career, and in 1943 in another, second one is more tough, but that's more interesting. As already said - maybe you're not turning silent running on?

[Gezur(Arbeit)]

Thanks guys for responding to my post.

I don't usually keep the periscope up longer than it takes to scan and see if I'm in visual range yet. I'm pretty conscious of that. In many cases, they seem to be homing in on me before I've even reached visual range.

I know the sonar cone on early sonar is supposed to have a range of about 1200 meters. It seems like they're picking me up long before that. Usually one will start moving in my direction, then when he's about 2-3 kilometers away the party starts and the rest of the escorts begin moving in quickly. (Mind you, I'm figuring this out this from my hydrophone contacts and an occasional peek with the external camera)

What is the range on their hydrophones? Am I more vulnerable to hydrophonic detection at shallower depth? That's the only way I can think they are picking me up. Once I go deep and keep it silent running under 1 kt / 100 rpm, I have no problem escaping.

I don't have the noise meter activated, but I should be quiet enough. (Unless one of my crew on stand-down is snooring too loud :hmm: ..."Wake Dieter up now or put a pillow over his head!")

Thanks!
Did you press "Z" otherwise you will stilll be 2 loud...even with 1 knot.... (remember your crew is making noise 2 ... its "silent hunter 3" not "noisy hunter 3" :D:D:D )

and you periscope is not 2 high? at calm sea the periscope should not be higger than 1 meter over the water.

[Bilgerat]

From what iv'e read, subs were harder to detect at periscope depth due to the fact ths sonar was aimed 6% below the surface because the waves would interfere with the signal. And im assuming the hydrophones would share the same restrictions.
Ive tinkered with the sensors and now im not bieng attacked every time i hear a ping, in fact i can tell when i have been detected because there will be a loud ping then a quieter one then its rapid loud pinging. but there have been times they pinged their little guts out and never detected me :)

On the sensors i noticed there is and active and a passive type, were those actualy supposed to be the same unit and not 2 separate ones? I ask because i set like types to have the same detection cones, and so far my experiences are very close to the ones i have read about.

[Gezur(Arbeit)]

From what iv'e read, subs were harder to detect at periscope depth due to the fact ths sonar was aimed 6% below the surface because the waves would interfere with the signal. And im assuming the hydrophones would share the same restrictions.



Yep, thats y u can go flankspeed on surface if ur 300 meters away from a DD (if he has no radar, and your in heavy fog) and he will not hear you.

[Erich Topp]

We're speaking about the game, not reality. In real life acoustic waves travel through water, depending on many factors - depth of the sea, temperature, thermal layers etc. They can mirror from the bottom, or from the sea's surface, can spread in "thermal channels". If you wish to find real acoustics physics - play Dangerous Waters)) In SH3 acoustic model is a little bit simplified. Only "blind zones" of escorts are modelled, and triangular "searchlight" scheme, when depth, on which you will be undetected, depends on the distance from escort.
ASDIC systems could work in both modes, as I know - Active and passive search. However, passive search requires slower speed and better conditions to perform.


Yep, thats y u can go flankspeed on surface if ur 300 meters


Maybe I am wrong, but in real life diesel sound on flank speed will be hearable on this distance. Real commanders use "silent approach" on electric engines on surface on such distances..

[danurve]

sabreto; When I first got into this game escorts were a pain and I tried to tweek all kinds of things.
Here's the deal; "Read the Manual".:up:
After I got to understanding the escorts in GWX I looked for a new tactic for attacking convoys. Now, I'm sneeking right into them up to late `42 and sometimes sinking the cruiser inside protecting them. I know that past `43 this will change, ehh so what.
That whole rush in and attack deal you see on Das Boot, forget about it. Use the tools on the map screen, beware and plot the escorts inner cone. Also if you do make a mistake, even just one, ... remember it's just a game :ping:

[sabretwo]

Danure: I have the read the manual and the subsim post regarding how their sonar works. I'm glad you found a tactic that works. Please share.:yep:

For others, every time I get caught, I am in running silent mode and observing the under 100 rpm rule. I can understand if they caught me from active sonar, but they were way too far away (over 2 km).

Well, we're going to try it again. I am 100 km NE of the Azrores and just picked up contact with a nearby small convoy heading away from me. Here's the plan...

Surface at least 10 km away from the convoy and Flank it into a position ahead of them, keeping out of visual range. Submerge to 20 meters, approach from the front, silent running, under 100 rpm. Once I'm past the lead escort (if there is one and granted THE DAMN PSYCHICS don't home in on me again), flank my position to 90-degrees perpendicular with the traffic, periscope depth, shoot at least one, and down deep and quiet for the escape.

Anyone see a problem with this plan?

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Maybe this is a good place to ask this.

I'm using GWX 2.0, and even with my sonar guy at maximum, he only detects ships when they are pretty close (20km), while if I go on the sonar room myself and listen, I can listen to ships much farther away, about 30km. Sometimes just a whispering of a ship, can berely listen to it, but its detectable. I wish to adjust the distance that the sonar guy detects ships to the same distance that its possible to hear them. Which file and which line should I edit?

[onelifecrisis]

Maybe this is a good place to ask this.

I'm using GWX 2.0, and even with my sonar guy at maximum, he only detects ships when they are pretty close (20km), while if I go on the sonar room myself and listen, I can listen to ships much farther away, about 30km. Sometimes just a whispering of a ship, can berely listen to it, but its detectable. I wish to adjust the distance that the sonar guy detects ships to the same distance that its possible to hear them. Which file and which line should I edit?

Rubini made a fix for this, but he said its one of those things where you fix one thing and break another. The mod was called "competent sonar man" or something like that :hmm: but use it at your own risk. :arrgh!:

[sabretwo]

Does anyone know the average range on enemy hyrdophones or have good guidelines for sub speed/weather/enemy distance that they use when trying to close the gap on an approaching convoy?

Any advice is most appreciated.

BTW...I succeeded in that convoy hit (one Medium Merchant), but I was perfectly still when they approached. One escort, just outside of active sonar range.

[ref]

The ranges are affected by a long list of factors, though the exact amounts are unknown due to the lack of documentation.
One thing you should avoid is calm (glass) seas, anything below 2 m/s wind and they can pick Bernard peeing on the head....
Also try instead of a 180º headon approach a 45º angle between the lead and side escorts untill you're inside and then tun to 90º to attack, also plot the lead escort zig zag pattern to try to get inside while it's on the other side of the convoy, sounds difficult, but once you're used to it you don't even have to calculate it.
Once inside I personally I use a chicken tactic, choose two good targets, shoot a couple of eels at each, then dive as quickly as I can to at least 90m and run away, then If nobody follows plot a new intercept course to hit again, don't stay to see the fireworks, it gives your opponents the time to detect you.

Ref

[Gezur(Arbeit)]

We're speaking about the game, not reality. In real life acoustic waves travel through water, depending on many factors - depth of the sea, temperature, thermal layers etc. They can mirror from the bottom, or from the sea's surface, can spread in "thermal channels". If you wish to find real acoustics physics - play Dangerous Waters)) In SH3 acoustic model is a little bit simplified. Only "blind zones" of escorts are modelled, and triangular "searchlight" scheme, when depth, on which you will be undetected, depends on the distance from escort.
ASDIC systems could work in both modes, as I know - Active and passive search. However, passive search requires slower speed and better conditions to perform.


Yep, thats y u can go flankspeed on surface if ur 300 meters

Maybe I am wrong, but in real life diesel sound on flank speed will be hearable on this distance. Real commanders use "silent approach" on electric engines on surface on such distances..

nope 300 meters is a lot, and the engines of a DD are makuing noise 2...more than the engines of a Sub. If the DD is not moving...yes.

[Erich Topp]

Yeah, but on the full engine power DD will run 30-35 kts. 12 kts was a deadline for ASDIC usage, as I know, 'cause of self-cavitation. On this speed you can hear submarine diesel, especially if wind have right direction. Trained ear can separate self-noise (boiler machines in DD) from diesel tact. In heavy fog all sounds are a little bit different, however... As from my experience, I could hear a tugboat passing near my liner-ship (small baltic cruise) in a fog. I don't know the distance, but it was few hundreds of meters - liner had length about 150-170m I think, and I still was able to see his bow from aft in this fog.

[sabretwo]

Thanks for your advice and patience. I have been practicing more on convoys and am starting to get it down (at least I'm in shooting range undetected). I think what was happening before is I was being detected five km or more out while running at a higher speed to close the gap on the convoy.

Now, instead, I'm tracking the convoy further to be sure I know its course more accurately before positioning myself in front of the convoy. Then I sit perfectly still, silent running, at roughly 90-degree to the path of the targets' movement (some times I have to close the gap a little, running no faster than 1kt). Once the lead escort passes, I'm pretty much clear. So far, doing it like this. I haven't been detected once. I'm also staying at least 1 km away from the path of the lead escort, closing distance at 1kt only after he passes if needed.

It would still be useful to have some general idea of the range on their hydrophones in various weather conditions. I'm surprised none of the vets have personal guidelines that they use based on their experience and trial/error. Although I'm trying hard to be sure I'm in front of the convoy when they arrive, there are some times I have abandoned the attack because I'm off position by more than 1-2 km and was afraid to close the gap at a speed higher than 1 kt (Often I can't confirm this until they are within 5-10 km away).

BTW...do any of you veteran high realism convoy hunters, have any tips for getting more than one shot off on a convoy hit before the DDs get dangerously close? I have only been able to get one solution and strike in before diving for deep. I'm using OLC with GWX 2.0, and it usually takes me about 30 sec to one minute to get a solution without confirming speed. That's still too long to get a fast one off on a second target. Any advice is appreciated.

[ToySoldier]

Hi out there!

I hope I can discribe it in english well enougth and no-one understands me false!

Also .... *looksliketheoldteacher* ;) in the convoy they all have roughly the same speed +/- 1 ktn. So if you have from one the speed (best the slowest in the row) you have them all, as said roughly.
Then you should measure the distance to ALL potionell targets before the first eel goes out! Because the only thing now differes is the AOB! And the "new" calculation is shorter then the hole fu***
Next is for the "nearest" target take the slowest torp and for the one away the fastest!
Why?
Very simple! In the moment the first explosion goes up all ships zigzack away from the detonation! Advatage they lose speed but also know YOU are out there somewhere and the change heading!

Hope this helps!

In diesem Sinne
Gott mit Uns
Frank B. aus K.

[Rubini]

Maybe this is a good place to ask this.

I'm using GWX 2.0, and even with my sonar guy at maximum, he only detects ships when they are pretty close (20km), while if I go on the sonar room myself and listen, I can listen to ships much farther away, about 30km. Sometimes just a whispering of a ship, can berely listen to it, but its detectable. I wish to adjust the distance that the sonar guy detects ships to the same distance that its possible to hear them. Which file and which line should I edit?

Rubini made a fix for this, but he said its one of those things where you fix one thing and break another. The mod was called "competent sonar man" or something like that :hmm: but use it at your own risk. :arrgh!:

The fix only for the hydrophone don't have any side effect. The problem is that Sh3 hydrophone is poor implemented, then Sh3 don't makes any difference from a big convoy noise than a single fish boat noise. So we just need a compromise on this matter. Anyhow I made a deep research on the matter an year ago here in this thread http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=107989. For m,e is a must have mod and the best crew adjust possible.:up:

@onelifilecrisis: i took a look again on the matter (about your PM) and i can reafirm to you what I said: The scene.dat don't makes anything important on the sensors matter alone...look if you mess with fog on scene.dat you will see differences it's true...but only if they are already allowed by the sensors files. For example if you push down the fog distances for light fog on scene.dat you will only see the crew "detects" this modification if the settings on sensors files allows it and vice versa. They (need to) walk together.:yep: This is why on the "Stay Alert crew mod" was not necessary to mess with scene.dat, the stock scene.dat already draw ships at it's maximum sh3 stock possible distances, ie. 9000-9200m, just sensors adjusts were necessary. Take a look on the link above, we have all this issue deeply discussed.:up:

Sorry to hijack the thread!:oops: