View Full Version : Mod compatibility with the 'Add On'.
TDK1044
02-25-08, 11:43 AM
The 'Add On' seems to be a polarizing issue. Some people are really looking forward to it, and others have little or no interest in it. I'm assuming that in addition to an Indian Ocean Campaign, there may also be changes in the 'Add On' that impact the Pacific Campaign. So my question is, going forward, will all mods to SH4 require that you're running the 1.5 (Add On) version of the game, or will mods relating to the Pacific Campaign also be available for those without the 'Add On'?
My only interest in the 'Add On' would be to run a full U Boat Atlantic Campaign. Assuming that even happens, it won't be for quite a while, so my plan is to not purchase the 'Add On' at this time, but rather wait and see how things go.
The only thing that would encourage me to purchase it sooner would be if mod compatibility became an issue. :D
M. Sarsfield
02-25-08, 11:48 AM
It doesn't sound like there will be a TM update for 1.5. So, moving forward it may only be RFB and other small mods.
capt_frank
02-25-08, 12:04 PM
I'm going to load the "Add On" as a seperate install of SHIV...joining TM and RFB which are already on seperate installs.
Have my cake and eat it too...untill it's all sorted out.
I'm sorta taking a wait and see attitude. I have absolutely zero interest in u-boats, so if it only adds those, and a campaign for them at the same (poor) level as the stock campaign, I'll probably give it a miss. The ability to call other forces to you might suggest some useful AI changes, though submarines would not have really called surface forces to help them (and the IJN certainly didn't have much in the Indian Ocean to call, anyway, and the KM certainly didn't, lol).
Have to see.
DeepIron
02-25-08, 12:43 PM
Yeah, somehow I can't see one of these hanging in a Kriegsmarine Recruitment Office:
http://www.northrim.net/jhouck/images/tahiti_poster.jpg
Sailor Steve
02-25-08, 03:22 PM
I just like ships, including the submersible kind. I hope this leads to a full-blown SH4-quality u-boat system as well, but until then I'll be happy with what I have.
I own two copies of SH4, even though my computer still lacks the wherewithal to run it, so I suppose I'll be buying this one as soon as I can.
AVGWarhawk
02-25-08, 03:56 PM
I'm getting the add-on. I will play it. There are so many files already in SH4 for the uboats. The current mods should not have to be changed much if at all.
Digital_Trucker
02-25-08, 04:02 PM
It was my understanding that there could be some game "fixes" included in the add-on. If there's anything significant, fix-wise, in the addon, I'll probably get it. Otherwise, I've seen about all of the U-boats that I can stand already, so........
I would hope that whatever is "fixed" (if anything) in the addon won't cause too many incompatibilites with mods.
Kriller is working on ROW for 1.5. Personally the add on should be more about american/japanese ships, planes, subs and campaigns vs uboats, but at this point ill take it because I have no other choice.
DeepIron
02-25-08, 04:17 PM
It was my understanding that there could be some game "fixes" included in the add-on. I wish someone could confirm this... it's all speculation I guess.
Ok, I'm as pragmatic as the next guy and I understand that UbiSoft or any other company for that matter, needs to make a profit to survive... If Ubi is "recycling" their SH3 resources (ok, makes sense) and trying to attract SH3 players to SH4 (also makes sense), then buying the CD makes sense too. If the price of the CD is predicated on all the new U-Boat stuff, fine. No complaints.
However, why not make a patch available for those who don't care about the U-Boat stuff? Isolate the "fixes" and make them available for the other half of the user base, the PTO skippers, as a patch sans U-Boat stuff.
ANTARES
02-25-08, 04:26 PM
I think that Ubi should have made a 1.5 update patch separated from the U-boat Addon in that way the people who doesn't want the Addon won't be penalized in not buying the expansion... Right now, I'm not into U-boats.
I think that Ubi should have made a 1.5 update patch separated from the U-boat Addon in that way the people who doesn't want the Addon won't be penalized in not buying the expansion... Right now, I'm not into U-boats.
Never, ever, ever going to happen.
FIREWALL
02-25-08, 07:04 PM
I very much hope you ones that just gotta have it yesterday get what you pay for.
I on the otherhand learned my lesson about this last year. And will wait a little bit and get it out of the Bargain Barrel. :yep:
lurker_hlb3
02-25-08, 09:51 PM
I will get it just to see what kind of effect it's going to have on RSRDC. Just based on campaign files structures, I kind say without even see the “ADD-ON” that RSRDC is not going to be compatible. One of two things are going to happen, RSRDC will cause none of the new “DAS BOOT” options to work or SH4 will CTD as it’s trying to load up.
To be tell you the “truth” I’m not into “DAS BOOT” in WestPac:down:
Lurker
TDK1044
02-26-08, 07:10 AM
I now have this game running just the way I like it. I run TM and ROW plus a few small mods. I'm kinda torn because I want to support the Franchise, but at the same time, U Boats in the Indian Ocean is of no interest to me at all.
I'll take a wait and see approach. :D
ReallyDedPoet
02-26-08, 07:32 AM
I plan to pick up the add on, but will probably not play it much for awhile. It's not that I dislike U-Boats, it's more that I wanted a break from them after SH2 and 3, the Pacific Theatre has been a welcome change from the Atlantic :yep:
RDP
DrBeast
02-26-08, 08:30 AM
I think that Ubi should have made a 1.5 update patch separated from the U-boat Addon in that way the people who doesn't want the Addon won't be penalized in not buying the expansion.
Never, ever, ever going to happen.
Then I'm never, ever going to get the add-on. Sorry UBI, you just lost a customer. :down:
I will buy it and setup a third install, how much time I will have to tinker with it....who knows! I average about one PC title purchase a year. I get a lot of entertainment from my PC titles. Hundreds of hours.....I would hate to see how many.:nope:
Then I'm never, ever going to get the add-on. Sorry UBI, you just lost a customer. :down:
Oh well. That's the way the software business works.
Saintaw
02-27-08, 05:00 AM
I got the addon for € 14.99... hardly an overwhelming sum :)
It's worth it, if only for the graphics engine enhancement and a few other little features. I have started both a de & us campaign... but am waiting for someone to take over Duci's work as I just can't take the vanilla gameplay anymore.
Stary Wuj
02-27-08, 08:09 AM
Very usefull topic :-)
Still waiting for my "Add On" copy!
Any other game/graphic/sounds improvements for stock US campaign ?
Best Regards
Stary Wuj
Axlwolf
02-27-08, 10:27 AM
Sorry for asking a really stupid question...but this add-on...it's already out?
in europe?
I've see really few info about this add-on.I dont know anything about it :oops:
I'm sorta taking a wait and see attitude. I have absolutely zero interest in u-boats, so if it only adds those, and a campaign for them at the same (poor) level as the stock campaign, I'll probably give it a miss. The ability to call other forces to you might suggest some useful AI changes, though submarines would not have really called surface forces to help them (and the IJN certainly didn't have much in the Indian Ocean to call, anyway, and the KM certainly didn't, lol).
Have to see.
Such attitude, I hope its not the "I won't play the enemy" thing that most Americans get hung up on. I've shot, sunk and set fire to so many British people I should be tried for treason.
Saintaw
02-27-08, 03:40 PM
Stary Wuj, I got it at the local "Free record shop"... i think they put it on the shelves before the release date. the clerk didn't even know what sort of game it was...and as to when it got on the shelves, I did't ask too many questions, got my copy and ran home with it(litteraly). Anyway....tomorrow's the 28th right?
Hardly most, I'd imagine I am in a small minority, but that's pretty much it. Didn't buy SH3, either. FWIW, I love the german planes in Il-2—as long as they are in front of me, on fire.
Friedmann
02-27-08, 04:15 PM
I'll buy the addon firstly because I want to support the continued development of the Silent Hunter series and the submarine simulation genre in general.
I can't say I understand the attitudes of some regarding U-Boats and SH4. Its a bit silly especially considering the phenomen is largely American in origin whereas the European posters here seem far more relaxed about the issue even though their respective nations have most likely suffered first hand from Nazi Germany but I digress.
Its a game, its entertaining I'll leave the nationalism and jingoism in their rightful place and enjoy the addon for what it is.
Stary Wuj
02-27-08, 04:19 PM
Stary Wuj, I got it at the local "Free record shop"... i think they put it on the shelves before the release date. the clerk didn't even know what sort of game it was...and as to when it got on the shelves, I did't ask too many questions, got my copy and ran home with it(litteraly). Anyway....tomorrow's the 28th right?
It should be released in Poland pretty soon, that is all what I know, I can wait, I have no time to play now, but still courious about improvements for stock campaign, yes,
28th tomorrow :D
With Best Regards
Stary Wuj
AkbarGulag
02-28-08, 04:07 AM
I can't say I understand the attitudes of some regarding U-Boats and SH4.
I think some of it may stem from the fact, that SH3 is dedicated to U-Boats. And now SH4 is back in the pacific, it seems like the attention is once again being pulled in another direction. There was a whole war over here and this game still fails to recognise it 100%. They were better off improving the existing SH4 campaign and adding an IJN dimension IMO.
Sure europe loves U-Boats regardless of nationality, these boats once threatened and defined europeans. Despite the flag these U-boats fly, they are still close to the hearts of those in europe for what they once represented in terms of national deffinition.
I myself come from a small country, whose contributions to WWII were dis-proportionate to our population. This is similiar to the contributions of the American sub fleet. Our homes and lands were threatened by the Japanese, making the pacific 'our' europe. This theatre has a lot more to offer, than just a few U-Boats floating around in it. Be it Japanese Subs or American Subs, this is the story SH4 was based on at conception.
Meh, I'm glad they went with U-Boats rather than more Japanese ships and all that crap you guys want. U-Boats and the German GUI would have been much harder to integrate into SH4 than a few extra ships and planes. Ships and planes can be done by the modders.
Not the ideal way, I know, but it's better this way, since Ubisoft had very limited time to work on this.
AkbarGulag
02-28-08, 04:58 AM
Meh, I'm glad they went with U-Boats rather than more Japanese ships and all that crap you guys want. U-Boats and the German GUI would have been much harder to integrate into SH4 than a few extra ships and planes. Ships and planes can be done by the modders.
Not the ideal way, I know, but it's better this way, since Ubisoft had very limited time to work on this.
Question Boris. Do you like the Pacific theatre at all?
Meh, I'm glad they went with U-Boats rather than more Japanese ships and all that crap you guys want. U-Boats and the German GUI would have been much harder to integrate into SH4 than a few extra ships and planes. Ships and planes can be done by the modders.
Not the ideal way, I know, but it's better this way, since Ubisoft had very limited time to work on this.
Question Boris. Do you like the Pacific theatre at all?
When I said crap, I meant it more like stuff. Yeah, I like the Pacific theatre, it's a nice change from U-boats. But I want to be able to play in U-Boats too.
But like I said, if it's more ships and planes you want, modders are able to make them.
Kpt. Lehmann
02-28-08, 05:29 AM
Its a game, its entertaining I'll leave the nationalism and jingoism in their rightful place and enjoy the addon for what it is.
Amen brother.
Too bad that everyone can't seem to grasp that concept.
The entire "us versus them" attitude is non-productive, childish, idiotic, stupid, and everything else in between.
Unfortunately, there will always be some gasbag either implying or saying that just because you choose to sail what you are interested in... you've somehow adopted an ideology.
Modders AND players regardless of nationality or interest in specific submarine-types have FAR more to gain by spending all that energy on improving the simulation/game... as opposed to perpetuating hatred and derision.
The entire "us versus them" attitude is non-productive, childish, idiotic, stupid, and everything else in between.
Unfortunately, there will always be some gasbag either implying or saying that just because you choose to sail what you are interested in... you've somehow adopted an ideology.
Modders AND players regardless of nationality or interest in specific submarine-types have FAR more to gain by spending all that energy on improving the simulation/game... as opposed to perpetuating hatred and derision.
Spot on, Kpt.:up: I 100% agree with you and with all rational people who aren't turning games into political statements.:yep:
M. Sarsfield
02-28-08, 09:27 AM
It used to bother the hell out of me when I would play Battlefield:Viet Nam and there was always at least one idiot stirring the pot about the war's vailidity, America sucks, etc., etc. and a flame war would start in game chat. I just wanted to jump on for a few hours to blow some steam. I wasn't interested in political debate.
Digital_Trucker
02-28-08, 09:44 AM
Back to the original question that this thread was designed to cover:arrgh!:
Has anyone who has the addon done a file comparison to see what kind of mod breakage that we are looking at with it? I, for one, would be very interested in knowing (since I don't have the addon yet) what kind of changes current mods are going to go through to be compatible with the addon.
Friedmann
02-29-08, 05:56 AM
I think some of it may stem from the fact, that SH3 is dedicated to U-Boats. And now SH4 is back in the pacific, it seems like the attention is once again being pulled in another direction. There was a whole war over here and this game still fails to recognise it 100%. They were better off improving the existing SH4 campaign and adding an IJN dimension IMO.
And I can somewhat understand that sentiment but I can also totally understand why the decision was made for U-Boat's in the addon.
It was easy to do and they could price it at around $15-25. Thats an impulse buy for most people.
To incorporate IJN subs, British or Dutch (all of which I would absolutely love) you would have a much longer development cycle and would have to charge $40-$60 to justify it. Pretty soon, its not an add-on its an entirely new game and the community is moaning you are charging full price for an add-on.
I better stop threadjacking :)
Kapitan_Phillips
02-29-08, 07:38 AM
I can't say I understand the attitudes of some regarding U-Boats and SH4.
I think some of it may stem from the fact, that SH3 is dedicated to U-Boats. And now SH4 is back in the pacific, it seems like the attention is once again being pulled in another direction. There was a whole war over here and this game still fails to recognise it 100%.
The way I see it, this is a step in a direction I think 95% of the people at Subsim want this franchise to go. Dual-theaters.
CapnScurvy
02-29-08, 08:56 AM
The way I see it, this is a step in a direction I think 95% of the people at Subsim want this franchise to go. Dual-theaters.
Yes, duel theaters are fine with me as long as I wouldn't have to pay for the corrections that a duel game release provides for one or the other side. I've had SHIII since it's release and enjoyed it for what it was (the only sub sim in town). I put up with the metric system, German music on the radio, German speaking officers, German labeled Recognition Manual, for the sake of simulating the German U-Boat war. I prefer the U.S. side of things (especially the Pacific theater) but doing battle within the U-Boat was a good experience.
UBIsoft comes out with the Pacific Wolves edition and I was thrilled, untill I unpacked it to find the American Campaign is using the metric system to figure measurements!!! WTF, no way!!! A few weeks later the first patch is already out (even before the Master Card bill is paid) and the imperial system is thrown in (with calculating errors). The calculation errors have been fixed with the 3rd patch but the game should have never left the factory in the condition it was released. As of today, the manual targeting inaccuracy had yet to be properly addresed with inaccurate mast heights, so a mod like mine (SCAF) will correct those, FREE OF CHARGE!!!
I'm hopeing the latest ADD-On is worth the money and corrects the manual range finding inaccuracy. I for one do not intend to spend my money to find out.
AkbarGulag
02-29-08, 09:33 AM
The way I see it, this is a step in a direction I think 95% of the people at Subsim want this franchise to go. Dual-theaters.
like I said, if it's more ships and planes you want, modders are able to make them.
Excellent. All you need to do now that there is German subs and Gui's is to start populating europe and throw in some planes and ships :lol:
kylesplanet
02-29-08, 09:47 AM
Well I don't care for the calls of "nationalisim" and such.:down: While I'll buy the add-on, it will probably never be installed because I don't have one bit of interest in U Boats.:nope:
I purchased SH4 because it was in the PTO and featured Fleetboats. If I want to play as a U Boat, I'll get SH3. Its the equivilent of buying Madden NFL and the add-on to it is Japanese baseball. Within two years, this to will be a U Boat game and the Fleetboats will be largely forgotten (as usual) except for some of the great modders here. Forgive me if I'm not jumping through hoops. I will now go wave my flag by the roadside as some here have suggested.
kylesplanet
02-29-08, 09:56 AM
The entire "us versus them" attitude is non-productive, childish, idiotic, stupid, and everything else in between.
Unfortunately, there will always be some gasbag either implying or saying that just because you choose to sail what you are interested in... you've somehow adopted an ideology.
Modders AND players regardless of nationality or interest in specific submarine-types have FAR more to gain by spending all that energy on improving the simulation/game... as opposed to perpetuating hatred and derision.
Spot on, Kpt.:up: I 100% agree with you and with all rational people who aren't turning games into political statements.:yep:
Its not that at all. UBI took the game set aside for the Pacific and stuck damn UBoats in it instead of finishing the game they started. Its not about "us vs them" its about "finish this game first".
Saintaw
02-29-08, 10:35 AM
15 bucks people... that's like 3 packs of candy if you're not from eastern yurop...
jezzzzzzz...
anyone know if the nomograph mods work with addon?
GerritJ9
02-29-08, 12:14 PM
Just bought the CD, 14.99 Euros here in Holland.
Now to wait for addon 1.6 with Dutch "onderzeeboten"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Uh guys, why we argue about politics...
The add-on is actually good stuff and adds some cool features that both sides of the theatre debate could benefit from. Even those not interested in the German campaign should take note as adapting purely Pacific mods to take advantage of 1.5 features is worth it.
DeepIron
02-29-08, 07:08 PM
1.5 add-on spin:
German Campaign in the Indian Ocean: The new campaign spans from July 1943 until the end of the war for Germany in May 1945. Operate from such far-off Japanese naval bases as Penang, Singapore, Jakarta and Surabaya.
Strategic Warfare: Rise in rank and experience, gaining access to new strategic resources, such as recon aircrafts that track down enemy shipping, and battle groups that can help wipe out superior enemy forces.
New Playable Submarines: Take to the seas in new German submarines, including the long-range Type IX-D2 U-boat and the revolutionary Walther propulsion type XVIII U-boat. Learn the strengths and weaknesses of these boats and how you can overcome even elite, late-war allied destroyers with high-speed hit-and-run attacks.
Heroes: Based on actual historical figures, these new crew members add a number of special abilities that can change the fate of battles and save the ship when the time is right, as well as adding historical color to the game.
Better Accessibility: New and improved features such as intelligence information, navigation maps and upgrade systems ensure that U-Boat Missions will give players the expansion they’ve been waiting for.So what is in here for me as a PTO player? The cost of buying the upgrade isn't going to break me. I just want to know what I'm getting besides fantasy warplay and U-Boats? I don't want to start any cr*p, just wanna know why I should buy it... :hmm:
Two of the things already mentioned there make it worthwhile - the interface improvements and the strategic options. The former is already implemented into the PTO campaign by default. The latter has a lot of development potential. It may seem gamey, but then consider things like the German campaign no longer having random single-ship contacts - instead they have to be actually found by friendly scout planes which can be shot down and can only be sent out so often. Out of the reach of air forces? Then find the contacts yourself! That's very cool. I think that could really be developed into a useful feature within the PTO campaign. The "super crewmen"? With some modding, could also be developed into a cool thing.
Likewise the graphic engine optimisation applies to PTO out of the box.
It's not a quantum leap, but it's got stuff worth developing for. Right now my particular call there is not on whether it's worth $10 (and in my view it is however you slice it), but aimed at modders picking up 1.5 as a base to develop further work on.
DeepIron
02-29-08, 07:26 PM
...but aimed at modders picking up 1.5 as a base to develop further work on.
Good thought. And, I guess, unless SH4 mods are going to split down two development lines, "1.4 compatible" and "1.5 compatible", which I'd hate to see personally, one will need to get 1.5...
AVGWarhawk
02-29-08, 07:42 PM
...but aimed at modders picking up 1.5 as a base to develop further work on.
Good thought. And, I guess, unless SH4 mods are going to split down two development lines, "1.4 compatible" and "1.5 compatible", which I'd hate to see personally, one will need to get 1.5...
RFB will have the 1.5 add on, rest assured. LukeFF has bleeding eyes from working on both theaters at the same time. He might get 1 hour of sleep tonight:rotfl:
Poor guy :lol:
I'll check with swdw on the state of RFB regarding 1.5
Being an old (cranky) modding salt, you don't know how much I'd love to help that crew getting this up to 1.5 compatibility - but when it comes to SH modding, I have the one thing on my hands that could possibly more detrimental to compulsive tweaking efforts than a spouse - a masters thesis to work on :dead:
Hardly most, I'd imagine I am in a small minority, but that's pretty much it. Didn't buy SH3, either. FWIW, I love the german planes in Il-2—as long as they are in front of me, on fire.
:huh: Wow.
Some people's minds change though. Why do you think I bought IL-2? So I could play the Soviets of course! Didn't give a hoot about the Germans, or Americans, or the Japanese added later. And I was offended by the mere thought of shooting a Soviet plane, tank or soldier.
Then I wandered over to the other side and found it was actually ridiculously cool. I learned a ton, too. So my only advice to people letting politics and history affect their game choices - drop it and try the other side!
RFB will have the 1.5 add on, rest assured. LukeFF has bleeding eyes from working on both theaters at the same time. He might get 1 hour of sleep tonight:rotfl:
30 minutes, tops. ;)
AVGWarhawk
02-29-08, 10:10 PM
RFB will have the 1.5 add on, rest assured. LukeFF has bleeding eyes from working on both theaters at the same time. He might get 1 hour of sleep tonight:rotfl:
30 minutes, tops. ;)
30 minutes....that childs play...take 15 minutes :rotfl: Oh, check out the layers for the aircraft on the German part. Apparently set up well. I think it can be ported to PTO. American planes! We need cover over in the PTO :up: I know, more crap to mod. Enjoy those 15 minutes:D
AkbarGulag
03-01-08, 12:19 AM
American planes! We need cover over in the PTO :up: I know, more crap to mod. Enjoy those 15 minutes:D
It could be as simple as checking a box on american aifields in the pacific. Will go and test this shortly. See if it runs in the standard campaign. The little tools are their in the fleetboats (the pencil), so fingers crossed.
I'll have a go at that, too. You can just click on the air base icons or active planes on the map btw instead of the pencil.
AkbarGulag
03-01-08, 12:48 AM
Ok, the test mission I used was replacing the midway airfield with a new one, that has tactical base selected... still no joy. Not sure how this is achieved yet. I'm off for a while, will have another look later on.
Yep, dug around that as well. It's tricky. May well be tied to the new rank system germans get and also hidden somewhere in the aircraft/airbase files. We definitely need our best puzzle-solvers on this one...
GerritJ9
03-01-08, 10:22 AM
TM Overhaul is not compatible with 1.5 unfortunately.
I bought the addon (CD) for a very simple reason: if/when another addon/patch appears, it will most probably ONLY install over 1.5, similar to Il2 patch 4.08m ONLY installing over 4.07m etc. Plus, of course, supporting the devs.
WHy complain about the add-o? It's $10 freakin' for the download (in the U.S.). :lol:
Want to make the money back? Don't go to Starbucks twice this week. hehe
kylesplanet
03-01-08, 03:13 PM
WHy complain about the add-o? It's $10 freakin' for the download (in the U.S.). :lol:
Want to make the money back? Don't go to Starbucks twice this week. hehe
First, I don't go to Starbucks.:p The add-on is not about money, its about content. I would easily pay fifty dollars for more allied stuff.
WHy complain about the add-o? It's $10 freakin' for the download (in the U.S.). :lol:
Want to make the money back? Don't go to Starbucks twice this week. hehe
First, I don't go to Starbucks.:p The add-on is not about money, its about content. I would easily pay fifty dollars for more allied stuff.
I wouldn't mind more allied stuff as well, but I'm not going to complain about more German stuff (I didn't mean anybody specifically was complaining).
If this add-on provides even a little more ejoyment to a product I already enjoy than I consider it money well spent. :up:
CDR Resser
03-01-08, 04:16 PM
I will purchase the add-on. Like many others have said, anything that adds to the enjoyment of the game, and to support the devs.
From anyone that has the add-on or knows from examining the add-on, what does it add to the game other that the Uboat campaign and associated tactical accessories.
In other words what does it add to the current game.
Respectfully Submitted;
CDR Resser
rascal101
03-01-08, 09:26 PM
Well I got the addon, it aint no big deal, and wont be till the modders have had a go at it. Still scratching my head why ubi didnt just do a conversion add on so those that want to could play Atlantic theatre.
Mod seems fine, now you get to sail past loads of Japanese convoys with out getting shot at. I seem to spend more time trying to avoid running into my japanese allies rather than running away from grumpy allies.
Also, is funny played SH4 for a while, sailed all over the Pacific as a Yank sinking lots of Japs, now I'm a norty German in the Pacific, there dont seem to be any Yank subs
R
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