Blue Ray wins the Hi-Def DVD war

[bookworm_020]

Looks like HD DVD is dead and buried. Now will come the interesting part. What will hppen to all who bought the HD DVD and What will happen to the price of Blue Ray DVD players?:hmm:

http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,23231443-15306,00.html

http://www.smh.com.au/news/articles/bluray-the-victor-in-next-generation-dvd-war/2008/02/18/1203190700636.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD

[TarJak]

Same as what happened to people who bought Betamax VCR's. They got their VHS machines at cheaper prices than the early adopters, but blew more on their original purchase.

I'm waiting until Toshiba actually makes the final announcement of the death of HD before looking to buy a Blu-Ray machine.

[antikristuseke]

For some reason neither linked opened for me so i have to ask, did porn finaly choose its format of choise ending the war?

[d@rk51d3]

Last report I read fron Toshiba is that they will be providing limited support only.

Since all major film producers have dropped it, there's little point continuing I'd say.

Now if the Xbox-360 had come out with HD-DVD as standard, just as Sony did with Blu-Ray and the PS3, maybe things would have been different, as the market would be now swamped with HD players, then again, maybe it would have just dragged things out a bit longer.......... who knows.

[d@rk51d3]

For some reason neither linked opened for me so i have to ask, did porn finaly choose its format of choise ending the war?


Blu-Ray lends itself to that "style", if only in name.:lol:

[Konovalov]

I'm waiting until Toshiba actually makes the final announcement of the death of HD before looking to buy a Blu-Ray machine.

Yep. :up:

I'm glad that this is finally looking like getting sorted. I would hate for this war of formats to drag on for another couple of years. :nope:

[JSLTIGER]

Personally, I'm very happy Blu-Ray won the war. It's a significantly more advanced technology than HD-DVD, and it's nice to see the "better" format win for a change (as compared to VHS over Betamax).

[Konovalov]

, and it's nice to see the "better" format win for a change (as compared to VHS over Betamax).

:rotfl: :rotfl: That just cracked me up because I remember as a kid, our Dad giving us the Beta video, better format argument. While it was true it did nothing to soften our family embarrassment and shame as all my school friends had VHS and had a wealth of title to choose from at the video stoor while we were stuck in the pitifully small Beta section of the video store with such a narrow choice of 'old' releases. We were like video lepers. :damn: :damn:

I have sworn never to put my children through what my father did in the Beta vs VHS debacle. :nope:

Long live Blu-Ray. :up:

[Jimbuna]

Same as what happened to people who bought Betamax VCR's. They got their VHS machines at cheaper prices than the early adopters, but blew more on their original purchase.

I'm waiting until Toshiba actually makes the final announcement of the death of HD before looking to buy a Blu-Ray machine.

Same here http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif and believe me, I've a boat load of DVD's http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/crazy.gif

@antikristuseke...LMAO http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/ROFLMAO.gif http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/ROFLMAO.gif http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/ROFLMAO.gif

[TarJak]

An interesting article that talks about Toshiba's possible next moves.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080218-hd-dvd-death-still-not-official-what-theyre-mulling.html

It will be interesting to see what route they take. If they have warehouses full of kit I'm guessing they will try to milk it for all its worth. Another interesting point raised was the nameless analysts predictions that it is a very slow moving market with comparatively small sales numbers.

What would be interesting to see is whether the latest news will drive increased sales of HD TV sets and Blu-ray players. Remember it is pointless having either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray if your set can't display the output in the way it was intended. Most plasma and LCD sets sold to date do not support full 1080p HD TV anyway so anyone who has anything less is not getting the full picture.

[SUBMAN1]

Read this thread for you Early Blu-Ray adopters.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=131241

Right now, it would be stupid to even buy a Blu-Ray players with ver 2.0 right around the corner.

-S

PS. Oh - for the future, expect $100 movies, and about $15 rentals for Blu-Ray movies. Sony subsidies that are given to manufacturers to get the price down to HD DVD levels is about to expire. Welcome to our messed up world where the stupid consumer can be swayed to purchase a crappier technology when something better and cheaper already exists.

[bookworm_020]

It always pays to wait awhile to get the latest technology, Unless you plan to be a beta tester!:doh:

I doubt that they will jack up the price of the Blue Ray DVD's and players, they are still trying to attract people to the format. If they can capture half the people as they upgrade to TV's that can view HD (even if it isn't 1080p) then they willget the mass of people to start making the players come down in price due to the amount of sales they would receive.

[SUBMAN1]

It always pays to wait awhile to get the latest technology, Unless you plan to be a beta tester!:doh:

I doubt that they will jack up the price of the Blue Ray DVD's and players, they are still trying to attract people to the format. If they can capture half the people as they upgrade to TV's that can view HD (even if it isn't 1080p) then they willget the mass of people to start making the players come down in price due to the amount of sales they would receive.THey have no choice but to jack up the price of the Blu-Ray DVD's. It costs more than $30 to $40 + to press a single Blu-Ray DVD. This is where HD DVD has a major advantage - you can press HD DVD's cheaply on current standard DVD pressing machines with only minor modification (you can even play standard DVD's on an HD DVD player - you can't play standard DVD's on a Blu-Ray player - its incompatible). Blu-Ray needs a completely new line with incredibly expensive pressing equipment and they have a lot of failures to deal with as well. Sony recognized this so for the most part of this war, it set up a subsidy account to artifically deflate the cost on a Blu-Ray DVD to better compete with HD DVD.

Regardless if the format war is won or not, that subsidy account is running out. Your Blu-Ray discs in the very near future are about to take a spike in cost.

Netflix also said the same thing - they are planning on charging exorbitant prices simply to rent Blu-Ray in the future - that was big news about 2 weeks ago. The reason? The cost to purchase the Blu-Ray DVD is going up dramatically. Expect to pay $15 to rent a movie for the damn thing.

-S

PS. It won't always be expensive (With the technology march, it will get increasingly cheaper to make Blu-Ray), but I can guess I'll still be buying standard DVD's for the next few years while prices come down below the $50 barrier on Blu-Ray.

[d@rk51d3]

Right now, it would be stupid to even buy a Blu-Ray players with ver 2.0 right around the corner.

Unless you own a PS3.

That way you have a "cheap" blu-ray player, that is possible to update via firmware releases.



-EDIT- Just actually read the link, which tells you that anyway. - sorry SUMBAN1:oops:

[Blacklight]

Those blue ray machines had better be downward compattable with my standard DVD's because I have a metric ton of them.:dead:

[Onkel Neal]

It's official (http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2008_02/pr1903.htm)

[Tchocky]

Argh, the one that sounds proper is beaten by the bad cartoon superhero.

"Oh my stars! If only Blu-Ray were here to save us!"

A light flashes in an underground laboratory. Raymond Blue, nuclear physicist and crimefighter, changes his shirt.

[Boris]

Argh, the one that sounds proper is beaten by the bad cartoon superhero.

"Oh my stars! If only Blu-Ray were here to save us!"

A light flashes in an underground laboratory. Raymond Blue, nuclear physicist and crimefighter, changes his shirt.

Haha, yeah... Blu-Ray sounds pretty gay actually.

But it has more capacity than HD-DVD, so I can't see that it's bad thing that they won the battle.

[SUBMAN1]

Argh, the one that sounds proper is beaten by the bad cartoon superhero.

"Oh my stars! If only Blu-Ray were here to save us!"

A light flashes in an underground laboratory. Raymond Blue, nuclear physicist and crimefighter, changes his shirt.
Haha, yeah... Blu-Ray sounds pretty gay actually.

But it has more capacity than HD-DVD, so I can't see that it's bad thing that they won the battle.That used to be the case - HD DVD has 51 GB capacity now. Blu-Ray still has 50 GB.

-S

[STEED]

Your never beat Beta Max. :p

My mate still got his and it has never gone wrong, they don't build them like that anymore. :yep:

[d@rk51d3]

Argh, the one that sounds proper is beaten by the bad cartoon superhero.

"Oh my stars! If only Blu-Ray were here to save us!"

A light flashes in an underground laboratory. Raymond Blue, nuclear physicist and crimefighter, changes his shirt.
Haha, yeah... Blu-Ray sounds pretty gay actually.

But it has more capacity than HD-DVD, so I can't see that it's bad thing that they won the battle.That used to be the case - HD DVD has 51 GB capacity now. Blu-Ray still has 50 GB.

-S

Actually TDK has developed 200GB blu-ray discs, although they are 8 layer.;)

[bookworm_020]

Your never beat Beta Max. :p

My mate still got his and it has never gone wrong, they don't build them like that anymore. :yep:

They don't build them point blank! The only reason it still goes is the fact that he has only three tapes in his collection!:lol: Just kidding!

The early machines tend to be better built (you get what you pay for!) My Dads first VCR ( A VHS) lasted over 15 years, the next lasted 2!:damn:

[bookworm_020]

So the end has come, the music has stopped, and the poor sod whos been stuck with the HD DVD player is trying to find a way out.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/articles/no-refunds-for-hd-dvd-early-adopters/2008/02/20/1203467142225.html

Thy've got buckleys!;)

[d@rk51d3]

"There is nothing wrong with the products so we aren't accepting returns from customers,''

"They [customers] understood that there were two competing formats and understood that one of them would probably prevail ... so they made the decision to go with HD DVD.''


-That's gotta sting.:lol:

[Herr_Pete]

wont be long till Microsoft have blu ray in there xbox 360's.

[danlisa]

wont be long till Microsoft have blu ray in there xbox 360's.
They've already started development on a external/standalone BR drive for the 360. Gonna sting 360 users though as it will cost a fair amount. With the addition of the external drive, a fully tricked out 360 will cost the same as a PS3.

MS will also have to pay Sony for the priviledge. How do them sour grapes taste Gates.:rotfl:

Also, following Toshiba's withdrawl from manufacturing HD DVD, they still maintain that BR will loose the war:

Blu-ray could still lose HD video war: Toshiba
By Matthew Henry

SYDNEY: Toshiba claims that Sony’s victory in the high definition disc format war will be short lived due to the rise of HD digital video downloads over broadband, which the company claims was one of the key reason for abandoning HD DVD.

In a press conference this morning, Toshiba Australia general manager, Mark Whittard, said that while the US film and retail industries’ recent shift to support Blu-ray sealed HD DVD’s fate, other factors played a role in Toshiba’s abandonment of its high definition video disc business.

Whittard claims the penetration of both next generation disc formats is well below expectations while uptake of digital movie download services is accelerating, and could render HD discs redundant.

“We believe technology developments will soon leapfrog high definition discs, whether it be HD DVD or Blu-ray,” he claimed.

“This step is going to be leapfrogged by the next major format – digital content, internet downloads and video on demand.”

Whittard also identified DVD as a formidable competitor to Blu-ray.

According to figures quoted by Toshiba, total sales of HD movie discs reached a paltry $300 million last year compared to sales of over $23 billion for DVD discs.

Whittard claims Blu-ray will find it difficult to replace DVD in the same way DVD comprehensively replaced VHS.

Toshiba sold less than one million HD DVD players worldwide, and while Blu-ray has achieved higher penetration with the PS3, Whittard claims DVD will be “extremely difficult” for Blu-ray to overcome.

“DVD players still sell in their tens of millions worldwide today,” he said.

“DVD upscaling technology means you get near high definition quality, and to most people there is little discernable difference.”

However, while Toshiba is now moving towards a business model which will see it place more emphasis on other HD video delivery platforms, it has not ruled out joining the Blu-ray camp.

“You never say never, but at this stage there are no plans,” he said.

Toshiba's HD DVD players also have the potential for internet connectivity which gives them the potential to accept HD video streaming over ethernet connectivity, which could be utilised by the company in the future.
http://www.current.com.au/2008/02/20/article/HXGEAZOXNF.html

So, a full .mkv HD movie download (@ 720p or 1080p) will hit your bandwidth for about 6-8gb :lol:. Hope you all have fast & unlimited bandwidth ISPs.

I don't think we're quite there Tosh but keep dreaming if you want.

EDIT - For those worried about their extensive DVD collection, (I assume HD DVD players do this to) BR players (aka my PS3) can & do upscale SD format DVD's to near HD quality. Now, to the keen eye there is a huge difference between BR quality & upscaled DVD's but to the general user, it's very good quality. So, your DVD collections are safe.;)

[STEED]

Your never beat Beta Max. :p

My mate still got his and it has never gone wrong, they don't build them like that anymore. :yep:

They don't build them point blank! The only reason it still goes is the fact that he has only three tapes in his collection!:lol: Just kidding!

The early machines tend to be better built (you get what you pay for!) My Dads first VCR ( A VHS) lasted over 15 years, the next lasted 2!:damn:

He's got a good 50 tapes.

Your right about your second point, my first one went about 7 years no problems just wore it out. The second one went 5 years with problems and the third one went dead in a year with problems.

It's a throw away sociality as the cost is low, I still got two VHS recorders and if they go wrong I will throw them out as there is no point getting them repaired as they now cost £20 to £30.

[SUBMAN1]

http://www.current.com.au/2008/02/20/article/HXGEAZOXNF.html

So, a full .mkv HD movie download (@ 720p or 1080p) will hit your bandwidth for about 6-8gb :lol:. Hope you all have fast & unlimited bandwidth ISPs.

I don't think we're quite there Tosh but keep dreaming if you want.

EDIT - For those worried about their extensive DVD collection, (I assume HD DVD players do this to) BR players (aka my PS3) can & do upscale SD format DVD's to near HD quality. Now, to the keen eye there is a huge difference between BR quality & upscaled DVD's but to the general user, it's very good quality. So, your DVD collections are safe.;)I disagree - We are there. I'm changing over my broadband to FIOS and will have 30 MBit/sec download as of next month. That would get me your 6 GB file in less than 30 minutes - probably shorter than to go rent it at the store.

I also have friends that are bypassing HD DVD and Blu Ray alltogether, and either DL all their content, or have Comcast send it to them.

-S

[danlisa]

Until that kind of connection is the basic norm in the major areas of the world, we are nowhere near this kind of HD download content.

This kind of infrastructure and net speed needs to be nationwide before this service takes the lead. For example, the majority of the UK doesn't even have cable connections installed, what chance do they have getting fibre optics.;)

However, I will concede that downloadable HD services will spur the industry on to install & develop cable/optical net services.

[SUBMAN1]

Until that kind of connection is the basic norm in the major areas of the world, we are nowhere near this kind of HD download content.

This kind of infrastructure and net speed needs to be nationwide before this service takes the lead. For example, the majority of the UK doesn't even have cable connections installed, what chance do they have getting fibre optics.;)

However, I will concede that downloadable HD services will spur the industry on to install & develop cable/optical net services.Well it sounds like the UK is lagging! :D You guys need to catch up. FIOS is nationwide over here, and the phone companies are pushing it hard as a competitor to cable.

The phone companies are trying to compete on every level with cable, and plan to send everything from internet traffic, to TV through FIOS.

I expect a similar assualt on the cable companies to happen in the UK in the near future. To hear you talk though, I'd have to say the UK even lags behind all other European nations.

-S

PS. In case you care, FIOS is probably what you already think it is - It is fiber optic.

PPS. Some info - http://www22.verizon.com/content/consumerfios/about+fiostv/who+wins+fios+vs+cable/who+wins+fios+vs+cable.htm

PPPS. I was under the impression that most European nations were beyond the US in broadband speed.

PPPPS. Here is the TV channel line-up - kind of shows you that they have stadard cable in their sights - http://www22.verizon.com/content/fiostv/channel+lineup/channel+lineup.htm

[danlisa]

PPPS. I was under the impression that most European nations were beyond the US in broadband speed.

You're impressionable.:D

London has only just getting FIOS and that's central London.

Personally, I'm stuck on 8mb/1mb coming down my phone line and that's on a good day. There's not even a cable infrastructure within 200 miles of me.:damn:

I agreee the UK is well behind the rest of the world. ISPs are still charging extortionate rates for net service while advertising speeds that are not obtainable. I pay £24.99 a month for a 30GB (fair usage) monthly cap and I'm lucky if I can maintain 4mb/512kb. LOL

Laugh if you must.:rotfl: I welcome FIOS with open arms.:/\\k:

[SUBMAN1]

Well FIOS (which is a Verizon branded name. It will probably be called something else in the UK) is not all its cracked up to be though - my one biggest complaint with it - they block both port 80, port 25, and port 21 which means no web servers except on non standard ports and same goes with no FTP unless it is on non standard ports. SMTP is a no go because of a lacking port 25. They force you to pay more for the biz package if you plan to use those services and host them at home on standard ports.

I can sort of see why though - 5 MBit/sec upload would / will make a great server pipe.

-S

[Nightmare]

FIOS is nationwide over here, and the phone companies are pushing it hard as a competitor to cable.
It's not quite nationwide yet. I've had it available for almost 2 years now in my neighborhood. Just haven't gotten around to making the switch, but I'll probably make the jump after my wife and I move here in the next 6 months. There are vast areas of Portland that still don't have FIOS available yet and several friends of mine in the Seattle area have been patiently waiting for it for close to a year now. If you live out anywhere close to being rural you can forget about it.

[SUBMAN1]

FIOS is nationwide over here, and the phone companies are pushing it hard as a competitor to cable. It's not quite nationwide yet. I've had it available for almost 2 years now in my neighborhood. Just haven't gotten around to making the switch, but I'll probably make the jump after my wife and I move here in the next 6 months. There are vast areas of Portland that still don't have FIOS available yet and several friends of mine in the Seattle area have been patiently waiting for it for close to a year now. If you live out anywhere close to being rural you can forget about it.Rural - that is exactly where they seem to have the most of it. In the last year, it has been rolled out almost everywhere. Seattle has it, Everett has it, and I know people in Portland with it. Your friends must be on the fringe somewhere.

-S

[The WosMan]

In all honesty I could care less at this format war. Technology progresses too fast anymore and optical media will be a thing of the past a few years down the road. I will eagerly look forward to IPTV and the benefits it will bring.

[d@rk51d3]

That's kinda the point as I see it. For most people, digital download is still a few, if not many years away. So enjoy today's tech in the meantime. When we finally attain as a whole, those sorts of speeds, they ain't gonna be free. Not here anyway.

[The WosMan]

I see IPTV as quite common in about 10 years. It will take a while to catch on but we are seeing the birth of it now as TV networks begin to offer their shows on the web. I think a lot of the writers guild strike concessions probably set the writers up to get money from new outlets as they become commonplace. Once more and more people begin to catch on that they aren't limited to watching a TV show when the network broadcasts it will change many peoples lives. Tivo and DVRs have begun the revolution.

Our children will laugh at us when we tell them we got our tv through dedicated cable services or big analog broadcast antennas and bought movies in stores on DVDs.

[Nightmare]

It's not quite nationwide yet. I've had it available for almost 2 years now in my neighborhood. Just haven't gotten around to making the switch, but I'll probably make the jump after my wife and I move here in the next 6 months. There are vast areas of Portland that still don't have FIOS available yet and several friends of mine in the Seattle area have been patiently waiting for it for close to a year now. If you live out anywhere close to being rural you can forget about it.Rural - that is exactly where they seem to have the most of it. In the last year, it has been rolled out almost everywhere. Seattle has it, Everett has it, and I know people in Portland with it. Your friends must be on the fringe somewhere.

-SActually one of my friends in Washington is in Everett but his neighborhood doesn’t have the FIOS available. The other two are in Renton and Mukilteo. In the Portland area, my parents live on the west hills overlooking Portland and FIOS isn’t available yet, Verizon is stating early April. I live about 10 miles further out, so I wouldn’t call my examples as rural or on the fringe. I’m sure within a year Verizon will get all the pockets taken care of though.