Satellite communications mod for LwAmi [Archive]

FERdeBOER

01-31-08, 10:29 AM

Hello all!

After a long time thinking on it, I've created a small mod of a "Satellite of communications" for both LwAmi v3.08 and Sakura v1.02 mods.
It has 2 adds to the game:
-a Satellite of communications
-a landbased radio

With this I pretend to simulate somehow a way to communicate with the Head Quarters (COMSUBLANT/PAC North Fleet...) in order to send/receive data, new mission orders, intelligence...
Also to simulate land transmissions I've made a landbased radio also detectable from ESM at short range.

The COMSAT and the radio are detectable via ESM, so, In my opinion is more or less realistic as you have to be at periscope depth if You want to stablish contact with it; and with the radio antenna up to receive the messages.

Is a work for mission designers to prepare the way the player must/can interact with the satellite, but I think is better than the "nothing" we had untill now.
I've created a very simple mission test (called COMSAT test) to show how it can be used.

Here are two screenshots:
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5742/comsatsathi1.jpg
This is the satellite itself (taken the one already in the game). As You can see its flying at 90.000 feet. I've set a maximun alt of 100.000 ft and think is enought)

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/391/comsatesmny1.jpg
These one is how it looks when you detect it.
In my tests you can detect the satellite form about 200 nm.

I accept all kinds of oppinions (well... not all... :hmm:)

You can download it from Commanders Academy forum (thanks to OneShot) http://www.commanders-academy.com/forum/showthread.php?p=21229#post21229 (http://www.commanders-academy.com/forum/showthread.php?p=21128#post21128)
or from (temporary links, I will not upload again when outdated unless someone asks to):
http://www.badongo.com/file/7649521 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/)
It's 1,16MB
The file has two versions: one for LwAmi only and other for Sakura mod (that needs LwAmi activated).

If someone else (Bill? :roll:) want to host it, I would apreciate a lot.

Hope You like it :huh:

Molon Labe

01-31-08, 05:26 PM

:up:

Doctrine: If [controlable sub] DETECT [COMSAT] with [ESM], Then Trigger Fired.

I see two significant implications of this for mission design. We now have a fairly "good" means of simulating data transmission FROM the platform besides link information. It's also a far more elegant way of providing a "go-code" trigger (as opposed to, for example, placing an aircraft orbiting an FFG that the FFG can shoot down at will to activate the trigger). The downside is going to be ESM autocrew...

FERdeBOER

01-31-08, 05:36 PM

:up:
Doctrine: If [controlable sub] DETECT [COMSAT] with [ESM], Then Trigger Fired.

That's precisely what I thought for mission designing.
You can see some recommendations I make on the mission designers readme included in de zip

The downside is going to be ESM autocrew...
:hmm: I didn't notice this point, as I'm mainly sub driver... maybe we can find a solution... perhaps creating the satellite just when is needed and not before...

Molon Labe

01-31-08, 05:55 PM

Well with the general "go-code" application the idea is for the player to decide when it is needed. So it looks like for the time being it's mainly a solution for subs. That's the way workarounds go sometimes...

Blacklight

01-31-08, 09:48 PM

I have to give my two bits ! This is definitely an AWESOME idea and when perfected will offer a lot of really interesting possibilities in future mission designs !:rock:

How cool would it be to set up a spy satelite over a certain area that can detect certain targets and relay them to the players or other ships ?

Another cool idea would be to model a Predator or some other UAV's to deploy or have deployed over the area to send info to the platforms in the area. These things would be small and pretty hard to shoot down.

Cyklop

02-01-08, 04:32 AM

..After a long time thinking on it, I've created a small mod of a "Satellite of communications" for mod LwAmi v3.08...

I appreciate your effort and acknowledge that one thing that DW is missing is a better ESM. At present it's only possible to detect radar emissions and no comms.

However I don't see what we can gain by having a satellite model at 90 kfeet? The existence of military satcom is a fact and nobody needs to detect them via ESM.

My wish is for DW to include a simulation of satcom transmission from surface units (including submarines at comms depth) - every time a player sends a chat message or forwards a track to the tactical data link network, ESM receivers should be able to pick it up (within an appropriately limited distance).

FERdeBOER

02-01-08, 06:04 AM

However I don't see what we can gain by having a satellite model at 90 kfeet? The existence of military satcom is a fact and nobody needs to detect them via ESM.

My wish is for DW to include a simulation of satcom transmission from surface units (including submarines at comms depth) - every time a player sends a chat message or forwards a track to the tactical data link network, ESM receivers should be able to pick it up (within an appropriately limited distance).

Yes, I wish that too... but there isn't, I can't do that and don't know if anybody can.

I already said is not perfect :nope:

I put the sat at 90k feet for setting an altitude where it doesn't disturb other possible air platforms.

Is detectable via ESM because is the only way I figure out about how we could simulate communications with a satellite.
Is job for mission designer to make the satellite "usefull" for the player.
If the mission designer set the satellite as neutral, the AI will not attack it, so is not a problem if it can or not detect it.
So think this COMSAT as a radio signal, not as a radar->ESM contact. That's how I thought it to be.
In SC, with "user action" doctrine, this could be simulated simply raising the radio antenna, but the option is not more in DW... :dead:

As a mission designer I allways missed to have a way to transmit what I found. i.e: if I think it gives more realism if you, after slipping into a port and take photos, have to transmitt this info (from a save point, of course) for me is more realistic (despite having to do this via ESM) than any other possibility avaiable on vanilla game.

You give me an idea... maybe we can model a bunch of objects that transmit "radio" signals... :hmm: I mean, a building that emmits a radio comm and the task of the player is to intercept it... what the rest think about that?

Another cool idea would be to model a Predator or some other UAV's to deploy or have deployed over the area to send info to the platforms in the area. These things would be small and pretty hard to shoot down.

The Predator UAV allready exists in the game :yep:

A little question, as English is not my mothertounge (You have probably noticed it :roll: ), is COMSAT or SATCOM?? :doh:

BobbyZero

02-01-08, 06:33 AM

@ FERdeBOER

Is it possible for you to send me this mod to my mail, phast2000@yahoo.com? I wouldn't bother you with that, but the problem is that Megaupload reports that all their slots for my country (Croatia) are currently in use. And it's been like that whenever I tried to download something from Megaupload :damn::damn::damn:

And I would really like to try this mod...

Unless Bill hosts it, of course, but Bill didn't update subguru.com in quite a while, and I wouldn't like to miss this mod. :sunny:

Molon Labe

02-01-08, 06:39 AM

DW.pl will be hosting a game today that involves 2 sides fighting in restricted waterways. An international force (3rd side) is authorized to engage subs in the restricted area unless they surface and identify themselves. I've proposed that they use this mod so that they can identify themselves to the international force through a radio message rather than a chat message that would be seen by the other side as well. :D

Molon Labe

02-01-08, 06:40 AM

Dr.Sid

02-01-08, 07:08 AM

Megaupload is just useless. I too could never ever download any file from there.

FERdeBOER

02-01-08, 07:10 AM

@ BobbyZero
I've just uploaded it to two more pages (rapidshare and badongo), check the first post for the links.
If they don't serve You, then tell me and I will send it via mail to you.

DW.pl will be hosting a game today that involves 2 sides fighting in restricted waterways. An international force (3rd side) is authorized to engage subs in the restricted area unless they surface and identify themselves. I've proposed that they use this mod so that they can identify themselves to the international force through a radio message rather than a chat message that would be seen by the other side as well.
Thanks! If they decide to use it, please, tell me how it was and what do they think :up:
If they need my help for designing the mission, I will help with pleasure.

FERdeBOER

02-01-08, 07:23 AM

Megaupload is just useless. I too could never ever download any file from there.

Ok, didn't know that. In Spain and Italy it works well...
I hope the other two sites I've uploaded to works better for you. If not, tell me, please.

Any suggestions about where to upload it would be accepted.

Cyklop

02-01-08, 07:43 AM

...A little question ... is COMSAT or SATCOM?? ...

Satellite communications is abbreviated to SATCOM.
I suppose a communications satellite could be a COMSAT then :p

I still don't understand why you would like to have a satellite in the sky modelled as on object in DW. To shoot it down maybe? :D
Is it possible to simulate space-launched anti-satellite missiles in DW? Or high-power laser beams?

I have probably focused on multiplayer too much to be able to understand single player missions requirements :oops:

Dr.Sid

02-01-08, 09:59 AM

Megaupload is just useless. I too could never ever download any file from there.
Ok, didn't know that. In Spain and Italy it works well...
I hope the other two sites I've uploaded to works better for you. If not, tell me, please.

Any suggestions about where to upload it would be accepted.

Ask Bill Nichols, he hosts mosts of the DW mods on his site www.subguru.com

FERdeBOER

02-01-08, 10:23 AM

I still don't understand why you would like to have a satellite in the sky modelled as on object in DW. To shoot it down maybe? :D
Is it possible to simulate space-launched anti-satellite missiles in DW? Or high-power laser beams?

I have probably focused on multiplayer too much to be able to understand single player missions requirements :oops:

Yes, it's mainly thought for singleplayer :yep: and specifically for submarine missions, as I'm bad on the other platforms and don't have the knowledge of certain aspects; as Molon Labe said, the ones with auto-ESM... :shifty:

And no, is not thought for shooting at it. :rotfl:
It's on the simulator because is the only way I found to give a little more realism (IMO having to go to preriscope depth, raise the masts (both of them because you need the radio to receive messages) and search for the satellite signal as the submarines must do to contact the satellite is a bit more reallistic and also makes a bit easier to fire some triggers.
I pretend it to be just another neutral object for the AI so it can be only "usable" for the human player.

Don't think on the COMSAT (if nobody oposes I will continue to call that) signal as a radar one, but radio.

And of course I will be very glad if Bill hosts it on his page :up:

Bubblehead Nuke

02-01-08, 12:54 PM

You give me an idea... maybe we can model a bunch of objects that transmit "radio" signals... :hmm: I mean, a building that emmits a radio comm and the task of the player is to intercept it... what the rest think about that?

Actually, this is an EXCELLENT idea. I have wondered if it would be possible to do this and I guess you found a way to do it. Can you create beuilding that transmit on diffrent frequencies? More importantly, can DW be set up to be triggered by these different frequencies?? Can they be set to be range limited so you have to be fairly close to actually receive the signal?

It would add the 'SIGINT' role to things that a mission designer could use.

Imagine: Sneak up to a coastline, troll for a building that has a random transmit time. You have to evade routine partols, avoid counterdetection. Once the SIGINT is accomplished they have to egress the area and report what they found.

Use it in the Redstorm type campaign. You are on routine SIGINT ops and intercept a war warning being sent out to the other guys fleet... You leave the area, report, and then move on to the next stage of the game.

Oh the ideas I see this being used for. You can do things OTHER than the typical 'blow them out of the water' type scenarios.

Molon Labe

02-01-08, 01:47 PM

You give me an idea... maybe we can model a bunch of objects that transmit "radio" signals... :hmm: I mean, a building that emmits a radio comm and the task of the player is to intercept it... what the rest think about that?
Actually, this is an EXCELLENT idea. I have wondered if it would be possible to do this and I guess you found a way to do it. Can you create beuilding that transmit on diffrent frequencies? More importantly, can DW be set up to be triggered by these different frequencies?? Can they be set to be range limited so you have to be fairly close to actually receive the signal?

It would add the 'SIGINT' role to things that a mission designer could use.

Imagine: Sneak up to a coastline, troll for a building that has a random transmit time. You have to evade routine partols, avoid counterdetection. Once the SIGINT is accomplished they have to egress the area and report what they found.

Use it in the Redstorm type campaign. You are on routine SIGINT ops and intercept a war warning being sent out to the other guys fleet... You leave the area, report, and then move on to the next stage of the game.

Oh the ideas I see this being used for. You can do things OTHER than the typical 'blow them out of the water' type scenarios.
I think you can do that. Every different "frequency" would require a different "sensor" attached to the platform (building), and would have to be listed in the name of the "sensor" for it to be viewable to the player at the ESM station. Random transmit time would have to be accomplished by a series of spawn triggers inside of nested dynamic groups, but it can be done.

Dr.Sid

02-01-08, 01:59 PM

Way to complicated .. anyway if building had radar (simple) it could go active and passive based on other events (time too). You would just have to 'detect building by ESM'. If you want to have 'some traffic' and 'some important traffic', the easiest way would be to have 2 buildings near each other. One with 'normal traffic', the other silent, except for specific time.

BobbyZero

02-01-08, 02:17 PM

Just admit it, you already downloaded too much porn from the site and it's going to be 6 hours before they let you download anything else!

Damn...is it that obvious?? :doh:

@FERdeBOER - thanx, got it at Badongo!

FERdeBOER

02-01-08, 02:22 PM

Yes it can be done. :yep:

Different frequencies on the same building is too complicated (not placing different sensors, but making only one active at a time).

Also can be done a small range so you have to be close to intercept it... even can be done a sensor that emmits only in one direction, so you must have to be right in front of it to intercept the signal (but I don't see the point on this because the mission designer should have to turn the building in a speciffic direction and it will complicate things too much instead making them easier for the designer).

But I need some help on this... what buildings? And, how can I name the signals? Simply "radio transmission" or something a bit more technical?
Maybe I can create a series of buildings with different signals, one called "civilian radio transmissions" or "civilian radio station", other called "encrypted transmission"... :hmm: other "military broadcast"... I'm a bit lost on this, help will be very usefull...

Working on it.

Molon Labe

02-01-08, 02:31 PM

The more general it is, the better. Oh, and as for different freqs, I forgot to mention you'd have to create multiple DB objects for each one. Stacking sensors on a single object isn't going to get you anywhere. From a design standpoint though, you probably don't need more than two. One that satisfies the mission criteria, and one that doesn't.

Dr.Sid

02-01-08, 02:32 PM

Molon Labe

02-01-08, 02:49 PM

That's not a bad idea... having a message received (in the chat window) will give you instant feedback as easily as the ESM gear itself would. The downside would be when you're listening to one station and waiting for it to send the one transmission you're interested in. If there is only one object then you'll have to click every time the ESM pulses. If there are two objects then you only have to be watching every ESM pulse and click when you get the "good" one. But even that's not a big deal, because you could just design it to have NO transmission prior to the one you want.

Oh, and by building, all I mean is a Stationary platform type. I don't care what platform type it ends up being, as long as it doesn't have a radar (like an airfield).

Hitman

02-01-08, 02:54 PM

Just admit it, you already downloaded too much porn from the site and it's going to be 6 hours before they let you download anything else!

But ... how do YOU know that this is an effect of downloading too much porn from that website? :hmm:

Dr.Sid

02-01-08, 02:57 PM

FERdeBOER

02-01-08, 03:11 PM

You're right, better making a generic transmission and let the mission designer decide :up:

In a first thought one option could be, once detected the transmissions of the correct place, assume that the crew will be alert on that and fire the "encrypted transmission intercepted" (or so) message unless you go too far or submerge the sub.

And OK also for making a stationary object that could be placed anywhere.

GrayOwl

02-01-08, 03:13 PM

It would be best if it was not building at all, but antena, which could be mounted on (read placed near) any building.
Also different singals are not needed - different antenas are enough. AFAIK there can be more instances of one object in the sim, so in database it only have to be one object.
I would name it 'radio communication', so when you classify it on ESM it will show as 'radio communication'.
All other differences can be done in mission with triggers. One antena can popup message 'unimportant traffic recieved', other antena can popup 'interesting encrypted data recieved'.

It is simply necessary to be in depth of a radio communication - data will act(arrive), if the radioaerial receives the data on LINK 11- the boat means there is on depth FOR a radio COMMUNICATION - a companion will send itself given about communication(connection) for the player …
If the companion WILL RADIATE a signal is not correctly ….

The companion in space - åè can detect it(him) nobody - only can KNOW about an opportunity of reception given with the companion …

All rockets by the surface ships, will be started against these companions is a bug …
Satellite Doctrine Simply;

; // Satellite Doctrine Sats.txt / Doctrine For -RA- Addon
If ( OwnSpd <= 4500 ) Then { Shutdown } Endif

Global data Allowed if Communications Depth Accesible...

Molon Labe

02-01-08, 07:21 PM

Molon Labe

02-01-08, 07:24 PM

IIRC there is condition in trigger 'holds track on' .. or something like that. In that case, all you need is some time (or other event) which will trigger 'important traffic' to be transmitted. If you hold the track, you meet the goal. If not, you won't.

Does that trigger work for sensors that don't involve tracker assignments (sonar) and thus "hold" a contact continuously? I haven't played with it, but I'm guessing no.

You're right, better making a generic transmission and let the mission designer decide :up:

In a first thought one option could be, once detected the transmissions of the correct place, assume that the crew will be alert on that and fire the "encrypted transmission intercepted" (or so) message unless you go too far or submerge the sub.

And OK also for making a stationary object that could be placed anywhere.
Oh yeah, that's another way to do it too. You can simply assume that once the detect goal is complete, the sub intercepts the message if it is still at PD at the time. That shouldn't be hard to set up either.

LuftWolf

02-01-08, 07:47 PM

This is all looking really good... I'm trying to think of a way to get all these great contributions into one neat package.

Given that I'm considering some doctrine updates only for the next version of LWAMI, I think it should be pretty easy to get this stuff and the Sak. mod into one download.

My computer has been acting badly in recent weeks... so I'm trying to get that under control. If I get a new computer, I'll get a dual core, so I then have to try to make DW work for that... or did they patch the dual core problem in DW with 1.04? :hmm:

Cheers,
David

FERdeBOER

02-01-08, 08:04 PM

Given that I'm considering some doctrine updates only for the next version of LWAMI, I think it should be pretty easy to get this stuff and the Sak. mod into one download.

My modifications are very simple and easy, so, if Sakura agrees, I have no problem at all to make the modification for his mod and have this sigle package :yep:

Dr.Sid

02-01-08, 08:50 PM

caymanlee

02-02-08, 04:15 AM

Satellite is a neat idea,

more important thing is: how we benefit from the Sat information?--- combine in Datalink or a trigger vehicle in mission editor? otherwise, it is just an eye-candy

I already got a sat mod from GrayOwl a month ago before this mod release, with doctrine(which he wrote above) and powerful sensor, it works well, at least it's trajectory works fine, but since it's type was set to be Air-plane, so it has detect dead angle, so you won't get a perfect detection unless you calculate the scenario very carefully

the DW default concept of Datalink suitable for Satellite Recon , therefore I'm not so sure if it is necessary to raise up the radio antenna, even though it looks more realistic.

so the trick is: If we can somehow, make the drivable sub get real-time satellite information only after it raise the Radio antenna

Other than doctrine(scenario doctrine and special mission doctrine), I can't think of anything else can do the trick

you guys have any idea??

OneShot

02-02-08, 04:31 AM

Could you post a thread over at the CADC ? You can attach the file to this post and would subsequently be able to change the file if you have a newer version or need to fix something or so. I'd suggest this forum : http://www.commanders-academy.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=40 . If you have any problems, let me know.

On a second issue ... would you be ok with the inclusion of your mod in the LwAmi Mod package ?

Cheers
OS

FERdeBOER

02-02-08, 06:37 AM

Satellite is a neat idea,
"Neat" is good or bad?

more important thing is: how we benefit from the Sat information?--- combine in Datalink or a trigger vehicle in mission editor? otherwise, it is just an eye-candy
I thought on it as a trigger vehicle and a bit for "inmersion" so the sub player has to contact via satellite and so... :yep:
I don't like datalink much and is possible to give the same info (and more controlled by the designer) to the player via script.

I already got a sat mod from GrayOwl a month ago before this mod release, with doctrine(which he wrote above) and powerful sensor, it works well, at least it's trajectory works fine, but since it's type was set to be Air-plane, so it has detect dead angle, so you won't get a perfect detection unless you calculate the scenario very carefully
I made this on september, but untill the release of Sakura mod I didn't dare to share it but only to a couple of friends. If I had knew GrayOwl was also working on this maybe we could have worked together (that's why the mod forum exists :damn: )
I wonder how many people have made mods and doesn't dare to show... :hmm:

I also used the plane as base for the satellite, but "my" signal is omnidirectional, I think this is done marking "double sided cone" on the sensor database. Or maybe is because I used the AWACS radar as base for the sat one, not sure...
My signal isn't strong enought to detect surface contacts (not sure, have to test that) because it isn't what I wanted, as I only intend it to be a "radio signal".

the DW default concept of Datalink suitable for Satellite Recon, therefore I'm not so sure if it is necessary to raise up the radio antenna, even though it looks more realistic.
so the trick is: If we can somehow, make the drivable sub get real-time satellite information only after it raise the Radio antenna.
Other than doctrine(scenario doctrine and special mission doctrine), I can't think of anything else can do the trick
I thought this as a method to "force" the player to go to PD to detect the sat via ESM; and also to use it as a trigger to send/receive messages, so, for receive them you have to raise the radio antenna or the floating wire, and, as you're already at PD... and with LwAmi mod now the subs are more detectable at PD... :up:

Could you post a thread over at the CADC ? You can attach the file to this post and would subsequently be able to change the file if you have a newer version or need to fix something or so. I'd suggest this forum : http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...splay.php?f=40 . If you have any problems, let me know.

On a second issue ... would you be ok with the inclusion of your mod in the LwAmi Mod package ?

Cheers
OS
Thank You ver much!! Yes, I will open a thread.
And Yes, I will be very glad if it will be included on th LwAmi package :up:

caymanlee

02-02-08, 11:46 AM

Satellite is a neat idea,
"Neat" is good or bad?

definitely good:up:

GrayOwl

02-02-08, 03:34 PM

Satellite is a neat idea,
"Neat" is good or bad?

definitely good:up:

When the good addition to game will arrive - then will be good news....
Shkval with a distance of 100 miles not so good idea CymanLee.....

sonar732

02-02-08, 07:27 PM

Satellite is a neat idea, "Neat" is good or bad?

more important thing is: how we benefit from the Sat information?--- combine in Datalink or a trigger vehicle in mission editor? otherwise, it is just an eye-candy I thought on it as a trigger vehicle and a bit for "inmersion" so the sub player has to contact via satellite and so... :yep:
I don't like datalink much and is possible to give the same info (and more controlled by the designer) to the player via script.

I already got a sat mod from GrayOwl a month ago before this mod release, with doctrine(which he wrote above) and powerful sensor, it works well, at least it's trajectory works fine, but since it's type was set to be Air-plane, so it has detect dead angle, so you won't get a perfect detection unless you calculate the scenario very carefully I made this on september, but untill the release of Sakura mod I didn't dare to share it but only to a couple of friends. If I had knew GrayOwl was also working on this maybe we could have worked together (that's why the mod forum exists :damn: )
I wonder how many people have made mods and doesn't dare to show... :hmm:

I also used the plane as base for the satellite, but "my" signal is omnidirectional, I think this is done marking "double sided cone" on the sensor database. Or maybe is because I used the AWACS radar as base for the sat one, not sure...
My signal isn't strong enought to detect surface contacts (not sure, have to test that) because it isn't what I wanted, as I only intend it to be a "radio signal".

the DW default concept of Datalink suitable for Satellite Recon, therefore I'm not so sure if it is necessary to raise up the radio antenna, even though it looks more realistic.
so the trick is: If we can somehow, make the drivable sub get real-time satellite information only after it raise the Radio antenna.
Other than doctrine(scenario doctrine and special mission doctrine), I can't think of anything else can do the trick I thought this as a method to "force" the player to go to PD to detect the sat via ESM; and also to use it as a trigger to send/receive messages, so, for receive them you have to raise the radio antenna or the floating wire, and, as you're already at PD... and with LwAmi mod now the subs are more detectable at PD... :up:

Could you post a thread over at the CADC ? You can attach the file to this post and would subsequently be able to change the file if you have a newer version or need to fix something or so. I'd suggest this forum : http://www.commanders-academy.com/fo...splay.php?f=40 . If you have any problems, let me know.

On a second issue ... would you be ok with the inclusion of your mod in the LwAmi Mod package ?

Cheers
OS Thank You ver much!! Yes, I will open a thread.
And Yes, I will be very glad if it will be included on th LwAmi package :up:

Congrats on the inclusion to the LWAMI! :rock::rock::up::up:

caymanlee

02-03-08, 12:45 AM

When the good addition to game will arrive - then will be good news....
Shkval with a distance of 100 miles not so good idea CymanLee.....

:D:know:, fiction mod;)

FERdeBOER

02-03-08, 05:02 AM

Ok, I'm finishing with the "radio".

I've made it with a very small shape (that of the BT buoy), so you can place it anywhere without giving a visual clue.
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6413/boyaqz8.jpg

Is detectable from a sub from 4 miles or less, going to test it now by air; tell me if it's a good distance.

This is how it looks from ESM.
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4932/esmsm3.png

OneShot

02-03-08, 04:09 PM

Would it be possible for you to make your Mod compatible with the Sakura Mod ? Since both you and Sakura have given their Ok to be included in the Mod package that shouldnt be a problem. That way people could activate both mods at the same time.

Cheers
OS

Dr.Sid

02-03-08, 04:16 PM

That's exactly how I imagined it .. good work ! :up:

FERdeBOER

02-04-08, 05:36 AM

Yes, I thought on doing it also for the Sakura mod because I like his work a lot. I was only waiting for him to say something, but I will sart to do it.

The air tests worked well and the radio comm is detectable form an orion at 6 miles. I think is a good range but, if you think it isn't, tell me.

As soon as I finish the mod for the Sakura ones I will release it with a test mission.

Thank you very much for your interest and help :up:

Pisces

02-04-08, 09:44 AM

[edit: Oops, forgot this is about landbased radio]

Detection inside 6 miles for PC-3 and 4 miles for sub seems rather small. This would suggest you need to be at a certain location to be able to 'see' the satelite. In the real world I think the sensor only needs to be pointed upwards towards a satelite to make communication possible. Unless it happend to be below the horizon. Why so low antenna gain?

FERdeBOER

02-04-08, 12:27 PM

Just a wild idea: what about making some kind of "submarine transmission"?

A short range sonar signal that simulates a submarine wire or so... :hmm: (this idea comes from reading Kapitan's article about cover ops)

Molon Labe

02-04-08, 03:19 PM

That sort of thing is only going to work "well" under very tightly controlled conditions. For example, for a Subguru style SP mission, you could have an AI target sub on Transit tactic which is known to be in a particular place at a particular time. At the time of transmission, you place the new database object at the same location, and ownship has the ability to tag it on ESM. This won't work if you don't know the location the transmission comes from beforehand, because if the antenna is spawned in the wrong place you give false ESM data to the player, and in an MP situation, possibly a false triangulation.

Similarly, if a playable sub is required to send a transmission at a particular time, using the COMSAT mod, you can simulate the interception of the message by another playable sub. You use an automatic goal which is valid only at the time the transmission must take place which tests for proximity and depth. If the conditions are met and the target sub tags the COMSAT (simulating a transmission), an intercept trigger fires sending the intercepted message to the eavesdropping sub. EDIT: I'm actually not sure that even this will work. It depends on whether the intercept trigger's firing is able to be "deleted" by the valid time expiring after the trigger has already fired.

However, there does not appear to be any way to accomplish this result if it is not known what time the transmission takes place, thanks to the elimination of the useraction doctrine. (no way to test for raised radio mast) If you are willling to accept the possibility that the eavesdropping sub might get the message simply by being at comms depth at the time of transmission (even with the antenna down), then this gets the job done.

FERdeBOER

02-04-08, 04:39 PM

Well, I was thinking not on intercepting another submarine's signal (interesting), but a submarine cable.
Correct me if I'm wrong but in cold war American submarines intercepted Soviet transmissions but simply "sitting" over a submarine cable and listening because the Soviets thought that the cable transmissions couldn't be intercepted and they didn't coded the transmissions. When they realized what Americans did, the they encrypted also those signals and started to hide better the cables.
That's why I was thinking about.

By the way, most of this is mostly tought to single player, because I rarely play multy and I'm not sure about what is usable in MP and what not.

And I agree that the loss of "user action" is a pain in ..*^'¨...

Molon Labe

02-04-08, 05:53 PM

Oh, you mean an underwater cable, I follow you now. To intercept those, you have to install a device that can detect the electromagnetic flux going through the cable. It's not something the sub itself can hear.... The only way to simulate that is to have a sub park at a particular portion of ocean for awhile without being detected, or something like a special forces launch and recovery, but all underwater.

Dr.Sid

02-04-08, 06:52 PM

Anyway this is quite easily managed by common triggers. Go there, stay there, leave undetected. Only thing we would add would be 'deploy divers, wait for divers, retrieve divers'. And these divers was dependent on the sub, so the sub could not leave (which caused troubles in at least one case mentioned in Blind man's bluff).

So with the cables, we would need much more effort to get some usefull behaviour. With radio interception, simple modification will bring nice detail, it's just a good idea.

Imamar

02-04-08, 07:41 PM

That would be cool thing to add.
So many things ya can do with it mission wise. This is great news, more mods!
Lets all work to make this sim better!

FERdeBOER

02-05-08, 05:28 AM

OK, version 2 released with a landbased radio.
Check the first post for the links (I've uploaded it only to Badongo, if someone needs another page, tell me. BTW, Commanders Academy forum works prety well).

I has two versions, one for LwAmi and another for Sakura mod.
I've included a very simple test mission for both.

About soubmarine cable: you're right, it's a very easy thing to simulate with the mission editor and is not easy to mod it.

Hope You enjoy it :up:

Blacklight

02-15-08, 01:03 PM

How fast can you get that satelite to go ? We now need this mod to recreate the real spy satelite situation that's going on now. :up:

The scenario should be called "DUCK !!!!":D

FERdeBOER

02-15-08, 03:17 PM

The mod is already done... I'm sure there's a lot of things that must be corrected, but you can download it. Look for it on the first post.

One thing I'm not sure about is if the satellite must/can detect something. I've it so it doesn't detect, in order to make the signal somekind of radio signal, not a radar one.

Tell me what you think about it.

TLAM Strike

02-21-08, 04:21 PM

Might be a good idea to include a transmission named "SLOT Buoy" and "SLOT Buoy: Distress".

BTW: SLOT = Submarine Launched One-Way Transmitter ;)

Molon Labe

02-21-08, 06:23 PM

If SCS or any subsim producers are listening, WE NEED PLATFORM-RELATIVE SPAWNS!!

So many great ideas, but their usefullness is so limited the way the editor is now....

TLAM Strike

02-23-08, 02:31 PM

Another idea. An emitter called TACAN. Maybe even put that emitter on Carriers and some Cruisers (IE Red Crown Station)

FERdeBOER

02-24-08, 06:44 PM

TLAM Strike

02-28-08, 02:46 PM

Might be a good idea to include a transmission named "SLOT Buoy" and "SLOT Buoy: Distress".

BTW: SLOT = Submarine Launched One-Way Transmitter ;)

Can be done, both as a "independent" object or as a launched one... the problem with the first is thisIf SCS or any subsim producers are listening, WE NEED PLATFORM-RELATIVE SPAWNS!! :damn:

The second option, making the slot launchable (I know how to do it as a "torpedo", maybe could also be done as countermeasure :hmm:) but I think it goes against SCS policy of modifying playables. Well the great thing is that SLOTs are set to transmit after the sub has moved away from the area so having it spawn in the general vcinity of a sub using a trigger isn't so bad.

Another idea. An emitter called TACAN. Maybe even put that emitter on Carriers and some Cruisers (IE Red Crown Station)
Not sure about this... I think a TACAN could only complicate the things. If the ship is EMCOM also is the TACAN, if is emiting will emitt two signals: radar and TACAN.
Can you tell me what are you exactly thinking on? Well the TACAN signal can be set to travel a greater distance than the standard Radar signal (like the SPY-1 compared to the normal Air Search Radars) to give pilots something to home in on.

I doubt a ship on EMCON would be a TACAN station since its counter productive.