How do you use the A-Scope scale???

[Quagmire]

I am embracing the 100% realism world which means no map contact updates. Its actually a nice challenge since it forces you to do some old fashioned compass and ruler plotting. When you get it right its very rewarding.

Anyway my plots could be MUCH more accurate if I could get better range readings from the A-Scope. Check this out.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3308/shiv622ms2.jpg

As you can see (ignore the devs smilely face easter egg) the target is at around 330 deg on the PPI. But what is the range on the A-Scope? Is it 28000 yards, is it 29000 yards, 28500 yards maybe? Look closer, in the lower left of the A-Scope is says mx100!!! So should I convert to meters or did the devs not release an imperial texture for the A-Scope???

Now remember this?

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/6587/shiiiradaror7.jpg

Circled in yellow, the German "vertical A-Scope", had a nifty numerical roto-wheel readout that gave the exact range to the target. I really miss that. Also I cant imagine that the MORE ADVANCED American radar didnt have this feature.

So how do you guys get any sort of accuracy out of the A-Scope we are forced to use? Furthermore, would it be possible to mod the SHIII roto-wheel range display into SHIV?

Thanks in advance for the help!
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[FIREWALL]

Hi Quagmire

I'd like to know also. As it is now I find that scope useless except for eyecandy.

Maybe there's something else you have to click.

[Fincuan]

Those as precise readings as you'll get without map contact updates. Something that helps a little is the "Small radar contacts" mod, which makes the PPI blips a lot smaller, but other than that this is all we got. Another tool that I use is Mobo. Take a screenshot of the radar screen, import it to Mobo and do all the measurements there. Still not very exact science, but definitely better than just eyeballing the PPI screen.

[M. Sarsfield]

Since the scales on the A-scope are logrithmic, the further right you go, the bigger the range jump over a smaller distance on the scope. I just make a best guess and usually I get a pretty good estimate of the ship's course after taking several readings over time. Ranges beyond 30,000 yards are really hard to guess and only serve to show you that there's a ship out there on a specific bearing.

In SH1, you started out with the A-scopes for SD and SJ radars. Later in the war the PPI scope got added to the boat for SJ. I always looked forward to getting the PPI upgrade.

[Ridgeback]

I share your pain with this.....I'm having the same problem with no map updates.

Have a look at this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116122&page=2

In particular post #27 by Gino - the US subs did have a range unit to provide a numerical readout but it is not modelled in game

ATM, I'm using one of the old radar mods which provides bearing marks and range circles on the PPI (not historically accurate but compensates a little for the lack of the range readout) together with the small radar contact icons mod. I make a guesstimate of range based on the PPI and A-scope

I use the radar to get general range, course and bearing information. I use this to maneuver into an attack position and then rely on visuals for the attack phase. The radar as it stands is next to useless for getting detailed information to set up an attack..

Cheers

[Quagmire]

Those as precise readings as you'll get without map contact updates. Something that helps a little is the "Small radar contacts" mod, which makes the PPI blips a lot smaller, but other than that this is all we got. Another tool that I use is Mobo. Take a screenshot of the radar screen, import it to Mobo and do all the measurements there. Still not very exact science, but definitely better than just eyeballing the PPI screen.
Thanks Fincuan. I'm gonna try that smaller radar contacts mod. BTW, what is this Mobo you speak of?

The radar as it stands is next to useless for getting detailed information to set up an attack..
How ironic. The American late war radar set was the MOST advanced in the world at that time yet in SHIV it is inferior to the German early war set in SHIII. I do love this game, but in many ways SHIV is one step forward, two steps back.:down:

I wonder if it is possible to import that roto-wheel from SHIII into SHIV? :hmm:
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[Quagmire]

I share your pain with this.....I'm having the same problem with no map updates.

Have a look at this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116122&page=2

In particular post #27 by Gino - the US subs did have a range unit to provide a numerical readout but it is not modelled in game
Oh I just checked out that thread and I am gonna cry! :cry: Here is what we are missing folks!

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1623/rangeunitdd3xg3.jpg

This is the "range unit" and it sits just to the left of the A-Scope. See that little window. That is where the range is displayed! How could they have left this out. Not modeling this for the radar set is like not modeling the stadimeter for the periscope!

Shame! :nope:

Sorry but this is a real bummer. It proabably wouldnt have taken much time to model this. What a let down.

Well time to make the best of it. Here is my next question. Does that mx100 scale under the A-Scope readout mean that the values are in metric or should I assume that the results are imperial?
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[aanker]

This is the "range unit" and it sits just to the left of the A-Scope. See that little window. That is where the range is displayed! How could they have left this out. Not modeling this for the radar set is like not modeling the stadimeter for the periscope!Yup that should have been modeled... SH I had it
Well time to make the best of it. Here is my next question. Does that mx100 scale under the A-Scope readout mean that the values are in metric or should I assume that the results are imperial?Initially that was my thought however someone corrected me and if you are running Imperial mx100 means "multiplied by 100" Imperial ... (not meters)

Happy Hunting!

Art

[Quagmire]

Well time to make the best of it. Here is my next question. Does that mx100 scale under the A-Scope readout mean that the values are in metric or should I assume that the results are imperial?Initially that was my thought however someone corrected me and if you are running Imperial mx100 means "multiplied by 100" Imperial ... (not meters)

Happy Hunting!

Art

Interesting. In the states we would have just put x100. Multiplied is understood. Thanks for the heads up!
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[Ridgeback]

BTW, what is this Mobo you speak of?
Re: MoBo have a look here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=225

It is a great tool for plotting target courses, speeds, intercept points, etc.

If you read the second of Lurker's Tactical Manuals (one of the sticky's) you can see how MoBo can be used to plot an intercept off radar information.

I tend to use MoBo to get a rough idea of target bearing, course and speed. The beauty of MoBo is that it solves the relative motion problems (ie it takes into account your own course and speed as well as that of the target). You can then decide whether an intercept is feasible or not.

MoBo can generate the course to intercept and additional information such as the time to reach the intercept point at a given speed, etc..

I've been using it for a couple of months and love it.:up:

[LukeFF]

This is the "range unit" and it sits just to the left of the A-Scope. See that little window. That is where the range is displayed! How could they have left this out. Not modeling this for the radar set is like not modeling the stadimeter for the periscope!

Shame! :nope:

Sorry but this is a real bummer. It proabably wouldnt have taken much time to model this. What a let down.
I agree it is a shame. The radar model in the game is very lacking when it comes to the finer details of the A-scopes, PPI display, radar images, etc. (not to mention the complete lack of a radar display for the SD).

Here's what the real thing looks like (from the USS Cobia (http://www.usscobia.com/) )

http://www.usscobia.com/both.jpg?%22

http://www.usscobia.com/P2050010.jpg?%22

http://www.usscobia.com/P2050014.jpg?%22

[Ridgeback]

Not holding my breath but there may be hope for the radar yet:

This is one of the screenies for the upcoming add-on:

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7672/sh4addonay8.jpg

[LukeFF]

Not holding my breath but there may be hope for the radar yet:

This is one of the screenies for the upcoming add-on:

And your point is...?

That's a German radar set. Has absolutely nothing to do with the American ones.

[Ridgeback]

And your point is...?

That's a German radar set. Has absolutely nothing to do with the American ones.
My point is if the devs have implemented code that will display range reading for the German sets, might not they also do the same for the US sets? Or this might make it possible for a mod to use the range window for US sets. I know little about modding, so I don't know whether this would be do-able or not.

You may know more about the add-on than I do. Thought this might provide a ray of hope...it wasn't meant to be a pointless post :-?

[AkbarGulag]

Not holding my breath but there may be hope for the radar yet:

This is one of the screenies for the upcoming add-on:
I think it does add some hope... IF thats functional , then the game has the mechanics for it to be added to existing subs. I'm no genius, but I bet someone around here has the smarts to achieve it.

EDIT: Ridgeback was to quick for me ^^ everyone please pretend my post was one up from here.

[LukeFF]

My point is if the devs have implemented code that will display range reading for the German sets, might not they also do the same for the US sets? Or this might make it possible for a mod to use the range window for US sets. I know little about modding, so I don't know whether this would be do-able or not.

It's not that the code isn't there to show a range readout for the radar - it's been there since SH3. The issue is that the developers did not model the 3rd part of the SJ radar suite, which is the Range Unit. They would have to add that model to the submarine interiors for it to "work." It's not as if the model is already there and just not functioning; it simply doesn't exist in the 3d models at all.

[Ridgeback]

It's not that the code isn't there to show a range readout for the radar - it's been there since SH3. The issue is that the developers did not model the 3rd part of the SJ radar suite, which is the Range Unit. They would have to add that model to the submarine interiors for it to "work." It's not as if the model is already there and just not functioning; it simply doesn't exist in the 3d models at all.
I understand a 3D model for the range unit like the one in the photo from USS COD doesn't exist. But isn't so much about the model as about the functionality - sure it would be nice to have the model but if we can't, can we at least have the readout?

In his first post Quagmire asked whether the numerical range display from SH3 could be imported into SH4.

By the look of that screen shot, we may have a working range readout for the German subs in SH4. Given the talent in this community and some of the amazing mods that have been achieved with SH3 and SH4, maybe this will open the door for someone to place that readout window onto the existing radar models for US subs (PPI, A-scope or both). In the absence of a range unit 3D model, the placement of this readout may not be historically accurate but at least we would have the benefit of getting numerical radar ranges as was the case in RL.

I don't know if the game engine will handle the German radar the same as the US one - if it doesn't then it may not be possible. But if it does, then maybe it can.

[aanker]

I'm with you. In SH I (SHCE) it was possible and very satisfying to target and sink a target with radar only... under heavy fog... etc

Maybe the Dev's will add <cough> an 'Imperial' readout <cough> for us Pacific guys in the Add-on. I have not given up hope on a number of things.

I'll put this on my 'wish list' along with the reefs surrounding Truk Lagoon ... and also the Panama Canal (or a way to cross the Isthmus of Panama... I don't care if it is a virtual crossing between the Atlantic <---> Pacific CZ by phone or in a pop up window)

Art

[cmdrk]

I think the devs were thinking you'd click the send range to tdc button to have the exact range. Manually setting range on the tdc is not easy. The SH3 topedo settings were modeled to be manually entered.

Or, maybe I'm thinking of sonar. I've started a new campaign from '41 and haven't been fitting with radar. And, I haven't had much scope time lately.