"Hardliner set for Serbia poll win"

[elite_hunter_sh3]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7198481.stm

:rock::rock::rock::rock:

finally a president who wont suck up to USEU (united socialist European Union)... cant wait till we retake what is rightfully ours! :D, cant wait till febuary 3rd either :D already making party plans :arrgh!::()1::()1:

[mrbeast]

What a great guy.........just check out who hes standing in for:

'.....Mr Nikolic is standing in for the Radical Party's official leader, Vojislav Seselj, who is still on trial at the UN war crimes tribunal in The Hague.'

[XabbaRus]

Hey America nor the EU can complain, after all it's democracy in action.

[Dowly]

Hey America nor the EU can complain, after all it's democracy in action.

:rotfl:

Exactly.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

"war crimes" :roll:

[sonar732]

As I stated in a post in another topic...all that I care about is our Missouri National Guard soldiers who are being sent over there soon and that they will not be in the middle of another crisis.

[Konovalov]

What a great guy.........just check out who hes standing in for:

'.....Mr Nikolic is standing in for the Radical Party's official leader, Vojislav Seselj, who is still on trial at the UN war crimes tribunal in The Hague.'

Indeed. :yep:

And what an unsavoury charater this Vojislav Seselj (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2793899.stm)is. :down: I guess he's just your typical run of the mill far right wing ultra-nationalist nutter. :roll:

[elite_hunter_sh3]

why the hell are national GUARD soldiers being sent to my country??:shifty::shifty: not a good idea to hope that "all will be will" knowing the current situation...:shifty:

[mrbeast]

why the hell are national GUARD soldiers being sent to my country??:shifty::shifty: not a good idea to hope that "all will be will" knowing the current situation...:shifty:

Possibly because of men like Mr Seselj? :roll:

[AntEater]

I suppose the NG soldiers will be part of KFOR.
Re the serbian election, it is hardly suprising.
I mean the west basically gives Kosovo to the Albanians, sponsors the indepence of Montenegro under dubious circumstances and there's no perspective of Serbia joining the EU anytime soon.
Actually the very day before the election, the EU started to make overtures to Belgrade for membership, but only in exchange for concessions.
Given all that, it is hardly suprising that the west has few friends in Belgrade right now.
Radical or not, turning to Russia as a wealthy major power that was the only nation to protest the 1999 bombing and now has the money to actually help is a rational step.
Sometimes I think our Morons in power WANT the cold war back.
Sometimes I ask myself if we bombed the wrong side back in 1999. On the other hand, the Kosovo conflict will go down in history as the high tide of spin doctoring.
I suppose a similar media offensive would be a lot more difficult today, with blogs and after the "Iraqui WMD" thing and all.
It is just a pity that our idiot politicians prefer a bunch of mafiosi (who are even muslim!) over what is basically a european nation that should be part of the EU by all means. I mean certainly not everybody in Kosovo is a drug dealer (ordinary people everywhere mostly try to make ends meet) but their "democratic" leadership certainly is.
I just hope if Kosovo flares up again, we do the right thing and pull out.
It would be strange to fight AGAINST Saudi-sponsored islamic fundamentalism in Afghanistan while fighting FOR Saudi-sponsored islamic fundamentalism in Kosovo
:damn::nope:

That country is, to quote Bismarck, "not worth a single Pommeranian Grenardier's life".

[sonar732]

why the hell are national GUARD soldiers being sent to my country??:shifty::shifty: not a good idea to hope that "all will be will" knowing the current situation...:shifty:

Per the UN Mandate of Resolution 1244 (http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N99/172/89/PDF/N9917289.pdf?OpenElement) (.pdf file)...

NATO’s initial mandate was: [2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_Force#_note-1)

to deter renewed hostility and threats against Kosovo by Yugoslav and Serb forces;
to establish and maintain a secure environment in Kosovo, including public safety and civil order;
to demilitarise the Kosovo Liberation Army;
to support the international humanitarian effort;
to coordinate with and support the international civil presence. Today, KFOR focuses on building a secure environment in which all citizens, irrespective of their ethnic origins, can live in peace and, with international aid, democracy and civil society are gradually gaining strength. KFOR tasks have included:


assistance with the return or relocation of displaced persons and refugees;
reconstruction and demining;
medical assistance;
security and public order;
security of ethnic minorities;
protection of patrimonial sites;
border security;
interdiction of cross-border weapons smuggling;
implementation of a Kosovo-wide weapons, ammunition and explosives amnesty programme;
weapons destruction;
support for the establishment of civilian institutions, law and order, the judicial and penal system, the electoral process and other aspects of the political, economic and social life of the province.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_Force#_note-2)

[Skybird]

Realpolitik: I hope he wins for pure prgamtaic reasons. He possibly will stop the EU's insane influence on the Balkans that tries multikulti experiments that I cannot see to work in the long run and cannot see to work now, especially in Kosovo and Bosnia, and he will offer Moscow the platform in the region to become a power facotr on the scene, that the EU cannot afford and does not have the means to ignore. that way, it all saves the EU from itself and it's own ignorrance of unwanted but existing realities. I do not agree with the nationalistic tone, and in no way excuse things like warcrimes. as I aid - it is Realpolitik, not more, not less.

Interesting: the EU wanted democracy and freedom in palestine, and the Palistinians brought Hamas to power. The EU wanted a civilised way of doing politics in Lebanon, and the Hezbullah infiltrated the government and now is a state within the state. America demanded Esgypt to allow more freedom, and the muslim brotherhood immediately raised the number of parliamentary seats substantially. America said it wanted to remove Saddam to free the Irquis, and removing Saddam's strong fist set all the long-cooking ethnical and religious hate free and turned the country into chaos. The EU wanted the same on the Balkans, and Albania claimed Kosovo and the Mafia/UCK took it over.

Reason and tolerance are two nice thing, dear EU. But if you sit at the table with players that give **** about these things - you are screwed. You will never learn, I know, and will ignore that it is in opther's powers to ruin your beloved match by just not agreeing on your self-made rules, That's why I want the Russians in place to confront you with a solid wall in your way that you cannot pass, so that you may be protected from your own follies and their longtermed negative conseqeunces.

that all has nothing to do with sympathies for Serbia, or Russia. It is - realpolitik, and willing the election victory (eventually) of that extremist, and using the Russian to stop the EU, are just tools to implement it, and prevent greater damages. Damages to Europe I mean, not necessarily Serbia. I have no deal whatever with Serbia, neither in good, nor in bad.

It all is about islam too, of course. the EU certainly is bitterly determined not to stop but to assist the spread of Islam in that region and europe in general, but where the EU is failing miserably, the Russians and slavic people and the orthodox church hopefully are more determined to try to stop islam marching on the Balkans and into europe again. Having experienced the threats of Islam in their own sphere and having been confronted by islam much more directly than the EU (which is being taken with soft power from within), the russians have a lot less illusions about it, than Europeans. I am absolutely sure that Putin's poltiical analysis rates Islam as the top strategic threat and challenge beside the the US and NATO. If that knowledge will be enough to counter the negative effects of the demographic facts, must be questioned, but at least Putin is aware. Things like the Nashi movement are directed against the Western infuence and Islam as well as they are directed to the inside, by putting a course that brings more young ones into line with the official state, and make them think positive about Russian law and order, instead of alcoholism and drugs and decline of culture and values.

[sonar732]

Good write up Sky!

[elite_hunter_sh3]

a thousand cases of becks for skybird!!!:()1::()1::()1:

[sonar732]

I'll add to my post in that the relationship between Serbia and Russia is also some concern with Russia's latest saber rattling. With their conventional status down, they came out recently with the statement of using nukes whenever their allies, or Russia themselves, are attacked.:o:o

[joea]

I'll add to my post in that the relationship between Serbia and Russia is also some concern with Russia's latest saber rattling. With their conventional status down, they came out recently with the statement of using nukes whenever their allies, or Russia themselves, are attacked.:o:o

Hmmm which is just like NATO reserving all options, including nuclear, in the case of a Warsaw Pact conventional attack. This when the Soviets had massive conventional superiority.

[Dmitry Markov]

Being Russian citizen I only care for our foreign politics expences to be quite balanced. During CCCP times our government spent more funds on our allies than on ourselves. I still remember myself collecting pencils and erasers for "schoolchildren of Nikaragua" while it was problem to buy cosmetics for my mum in our own country. Nevertheless I do like Serbs and Serbia and I hope that there would be no foreign soldiers there (KFOR or not...). I also hope that Serbia would stay united.

[sonar732]

I'll add to my post in that the relationship between Serbia and Russia is also some concern with Russia's latest saber rattling. With their conventional status down, they came out recently with the statement of using nukes whenever their allies, or Russia themselves, are attacked.:o:o
Hmmm which is just like NATO reserving all options, including nuclear, in the case of a Warsaw Pact conventional attack. This when the Soviets had massive conventional superiority.

joea, this is true to a certain extent. However, in the cold war, that type of doctorine was a no brainer. Both sides threatened each other with nucs. We are at a critical time in history in which all nuclear capable countries use that as a trump card and aren't afraid to state it. The US recently quoted it as "all options are on the table", while the Israelis also said the same regarding Iran using any type of nuclear attack. So, of course Russia would follow the example lead by the jewish state and the US.

Regarding Serbia...the only way I see something bad come out of this new election is if the elected nationalist president attacks KFOR soldiers. Unlike the Yugoslav civil war, the UN wouldn't allow it this time. It won't even depend on the nationality because within hours the Security Council will meet and throw out a resolution for use of force, which Russia will veto, and then the KFOR nations would have to react on their own accord. Russia would be pissed at the ability of the council members to ignore their veto and send a few subs to the Med and Adriatic Seas as reminders of what they stated earlier.

Regarding Iran...I'm sure that no matter what type of conflict happens here, Russia will get involved with either troops, nucs, or both. They would see what the armed conflict will do to the world economy regarding oil prices at the start, and defend Iran as a chance to prove they are still capable of projecting their influence. Otherwise, I think the only way that their opinion will sway is if an Islamic Extremist attack is launched within Chetznia with ties to Iran.

As a final note...let's just pray that cooler heads prevail in all world situations and that diplomacy stays firm.

[joea]

I agree sonar, let's pray for cool heads. I hate to say it, but partition may be the only solution.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

partition is only screwing serbia over...

i would take the other solution that the west doesnt want.. the rightful belonging of kosovo that is and always will be serbian, thing is you dont know what lengths serbian people will go to keep kosovo... you will find out if the West, EU and the albanians make the foolish decisions... and now we play the waiting game.. id give it 3-5 weeks max.....:shifty:

[Konovalov]

... you will find out if the West, EU and the albanians make the foolish decisions... and now we play the waiting game.. id give it 3-5 weeks max.....:shifty:

Don't tell me your going to pick up your guns again? :lol:

[Happy Times]

partition is only screwing serbia over...

i would take the other solution that the west doesnt want.. the rightful belonging of kosovo that is and always will be serbian, thing is you dont know what lengths serbian people will go to keep kosovo... you will find out if the West, EU and the albanians make the foolish decisions... and now we play the waiting game.. id give it 3-5 weeks max.....:shifty:

The fact is that official resistence is unlikely, it will probably develop to be a nother Northern Ireland type of conflict. And Albanians are in upperhand if that happens.
Just cant believe EU let thing develop like this. They should have pressed the Albanians to except autonomy. If the Serbs would play this wisely they could get Kosovo back without Albanians in the future.

[mrbeast]

partition is only screwing serbia over...

i would take the other solution that the west doesnt want.. the rightful belonging of kosovo that is and always will be serbian, thing is you dont know what lengths serbian people will go to keep kosovo... you will find out if the West, EU and the albanians make the foolish decisions... and now we play the waiting game.. id give it 3-5 weeks max.....:shifty:

What exactly is Serbia going to lose if Kosovo decides to declaire independance, except for a small geographic area inhabbited overwhelmingly by Albanians who do not wish to be under Serbian government and moreover hate Serbia and Serbians? Why would you want to hold onto that? :hmm:

Sounds like more trouble than its worth to me. :roll:

[XabbaRus]

Why do any governments want to hold onto bits of land like this? Serbia isn't unique.

[Happy Times]

partition is only screwing serbia over...

i would take the other solution that the west doesnt want.. the rightful belonging of kosovo that is and always will be serbian, thing is you dont know what lengths serbian people will go to keep kosovo... you will find out if the West, EU and the albanians make the foolish decisions... and now we play the waiting game.. id give it 3-5 weeks max.....:shifty:

What exactly is Serbia going to lose if Kosovo decides to declaire independance, except for a small geographic area inhabbited overwhelmingly by Albanians who do not wish to be under Serbian government and moreover hate Serbia and Serbians? Why would you want to hold onto that? :hmm:

Sounds like more trouble than its worth to me. :roll:

Are you serious?:roll: Would you give up Kent if EU told you to give it up?

[mrbeast]

Think Kosovo and Kent are a little different, so not much of an analogy there.

Plus I don't think its the EU that is trying to break up Serbia think the Kosovan Albanians and the Serbians have done well enough already.

[sonar732]

partition is only screwing serbia over...

i would take the other solution that the west doesnt want.. the rightful belonging of kosovo that is and always will be serbian, thing is you dont know what lengths serbian people will go to keep kosovo... you will find out if the West, EU and the albanians make the foolish decisions... and now we play the waiting game.. id give it 3-5 weeks max.....:shifty:
What exactly is Serbia going to lose if Kosovo decides to declaire independance, except for a small geographic area inhabbited overwhelmingly by Albanians who do not wish to be under Serbian government and moreover hate Serbia and Serbians? Why would you want to hold onto that? :hmm:

Sounds like more trouble than its worth to me. :roll:

It's a matter of national pride mrbeast. If it wasn't for the humanitarian side of KFOR, I wish we weren't there. In fact, when Clinton took over after George Sr...we were lead to believe that our mission in Kosovo would be short lived. That was almost 10 years ago.

[mrbeast]

I think thats all it bolis down to in the end sonar732.

I'm not advocating that countries simply break up and reform at will, but after all the blood shed and destruction and now with insinuations that there might be another round of violence in the offing, is the end product worth the investment?

[joea]

I think thats all it bolis down to in the end sonar732.

I'm not advocating that countries simply break up and reform at will, but after all the blood shed and destruction and now with insinuations that there might be another round of violence in the offing, is the end product worth the investment?

Agree, but the point I think you missed is this was the heart of Medieaval Serbia and of historic importance to Serbs. Of course speaking as a Greek-Canadian who traces his family roots to Cappadocia in Modern turkey I realise history moves on and the Magna Grecea (Greater Greece) idea caused a lot of hardship for Greece and was not worth the blood and pain.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

... you will find out if the West, EU and the albanians make the foolish decisions... and now we play the waiting game.. id give it 3-5 weeks max.....:shifty:
Don't tell me your going to pick up your guns again? :lol:

i might.. not sure yet.. my family back home definetly will.. its not like they have a choice..:shifty:

[Takeda Shingen]

The last time that violence was threatened on SubSim, threads were locked and accounts were suspended.

The Management

[elite_hunter_sh3]

Putins personal bodyguard division says they will help serbia if hostilities commence.

http://english.pravda.ru/world/europ...-cossacksdon-0 (http://english.pravda.ru/world/europe/18-01-2008/103511-cossacksdon-0)

[Skybird]

Well, Putin will be locked and his guards will be suspended, then. :lol:

[Konovalov]

@ Sky :lol: :lol:

Poor Vlad. :cry:

[sonar732]

I guess elite had to "revise" the original post after Takeda's because that's not the original that I saw.:hmm::hmm::hmm:

[elite_hunter_sh3]

edited because there is news to be showed :p

having the Cossacks saying they will join is like getting a free victory lol.. they are all by family lineage so no infiltration, they are not allowed to drink alcohol to "maintain certain readyness for battle":o:hmm::D

tidbit about the cossacks

are a traditional community of militant people living in the southern steppe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steppe) regions of Eastern Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe) (primarily Ukraine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine) and southern Russia). They are famous for their self-reliance and military skills, particularly horsemanship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equestrianism). "Cossack" may also refer to a member of a Cossack military unit.

"n the Perestroika (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perestroika)-enlightened USSR of the late 1980s, many successors of the Cossacks became enthusiastic about reviving their national traditions. In 1988 the USSR passed a law which allowed formation of former hosts and the creation of new ones. The ataman of the largest, the All-Mighty Don Host, was granted Marshal rank and the right to form a new host. The Cossacks have taken an active part in many of the conflicts that took place afterwards: Transdniester (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria), Abkhazia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazia), South Ossetia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia), Kosovo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo) and Chechnya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechnya). While their impact on the outcome of the conflict rarely by-passed mass-media attention, they were immediately recognised for their high morale and bravery. At the same time many attempts were made to increase the Cossack impact on Russian society and throughout the 1990s many regional authorities agreed to hand over some local administration and policing duties to the Cossacks. However in April 2005, Russian President Vladimir Putin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin) introduced a bill "On the State Service of the Russian Cossacks" (O gosudarstvennoy sluzhbe rossiyskogo kazachestva) to the State Duma, which was passed in the first reading on May 18 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_18), 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005). For the first time in decades the Cossacks were recognised as not only a distinct ethnocultural entity but also as a potent military service. Although their full ambition to administer wholly the territory stretching from Transdniester all the way along the steppe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steppe) to the Ural River (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ural_River) might be distant, the bill made a significant step towards achieving it."

source : wikipedia..