Frustration at lack of damage

[exponent8246]

Hi all.

I currently have installed RSRDC phase II for RFB v241 with RFB 1.4 for ROW RC1 with various ROW mods for texture, lighting etc.

My gripe is, yet again, with the deck gun.
I totally crippled a Medium Modern Merchant, she was dead in the water, on fire badly and had sunk so that just the top of the main hull was visible.

I surfaced and began firing from around 1000 metres at the water-line (whilst taking fire from the merchants deck gun and flak guns).
I fired over 50 rounds with no effect what-so-ever, in the mean time, i took a good number of direct hits from her deck gun and flak cannons, i received no damage at all (no visible holes in the ship either).
*Note - This is a fresh campagn starting from the very first date that is available, i didnt think merchants were armed that early in the war?? or is that just the european theatre??*

I am very dissapointed with this, i have played stock with ROW for a while now and this problem does not occur at all!!

I know its rare for somebody to be dissapointed when you take a hit and dont get damaged but its not the point of the game is it. It takes the realism away which for me is the most important part of the sim.

Any comments out there??

[ReallyDedPoet]

I am very dissapointed with this, i have played stock with ROW for a while now and this problem does not occur at all!!

I know its rare for somebody to be dissapointed when you take a hit and dont get damaged but its not the point of the game is it. It takes the realism away which for me is the most important part of the sim.


I'll let one of the RFB lads comment on this more, but your question relates to realism aspect in Real Fleet Boat, stock DGs are over powered , RFB tones them down to reflect the realities of a WWII Fleetboat.

A regular user of RFB I am sure will add more to this. Hope this helps. Just a tip, asking this in the RFB Thread, or having RFB in your thread title may attract a few more users of that mod.


RDP

[exponent8246]

Yeah, your advice helps a lot mate. (especially the Ab - RFB in the title)

I've done some research and maybe the stock DG is overpowered but to fire 50+ shells at a totally crippled freighter, and not even scratch the thing is madness.

I commented on receiving direct fire to my boat and sustaining NO damage at all. (either physically or visually which I liked to see in the previous version I was running)

Can you elaborate on this or is it just a bug maybe?

[ReallyDedPoet]

Yeah, your advice helps a lot mate. (especially the Ab - RFB in the title)

I've done some research and maybe the stock DG is overpowered but to fire 50+ shells at a totally crippled freighter, and not even scratch the thing is madness.

I commented on receiving direct fire to my boat and sustaining NO damage at all. (either physically or visually which I liked to see in the previous version I was running)

Can you elaborate on this or is it just a bug maybe?
I am sure the DG could be modded to somewhere in between stock and RFB, would not be to difficult, however it is not likely one that would be done directly by a RFB Modder, due to its theme.

I sent this thread along to one of the more frequent RFB Players, they will be able to add more. I play Trigger Maru which aims to strike more of a balance between game play and realism.


RDP

[exponent8246]

OK.

I was going to try TM but it stressed (in the thread TM) that it was very realistic and although I have been playing SH2, SH3 and SH4 for a number of years now, I have never been able to break myself away from the ease of just selecting a target, setting the torp depth and speed and then just firing.

Basically, I have never used the TBC to manually fire a torp.:oops:

Maybe I should take the next step huh??

[ReallyDedPoet]

OK.

I was going to try TM but it stressed (in the thread TM) that it was very realistic and although I have been playing SH2, SH3 and SH4 for a number of years now, I have never been able to break myself away from the ease of just selecting a target, setting the torp depth and speed and then just firing.

Basically, I have never used the TBC to manually fire a torp.:oops:

Maybe I should take the next step huh??

There both good mods :up: If you ever want to try another one of the larger mods you could always do another install. I have about 4 on the go now :D

Once you go to manual targeting you won't want to go back, as frustrating as it can be, there is nothing like taking down a contact with MT :yep:


RDP

[exponent8246]

Which mod do you prefer?? Honestly!!

Which mods do you have installed to accompany TM and RSRDC????

How do you have so many copies?? I tried to install another copy and it told me I would have to uninstall my existing copy!!

[Ducimus]

OK.

I was going to try TM but it stressed (in the thread TM) that it was very realistic

TM is a harder sub sim, not neccessarily very realistic.

Realistic, is subjective in definition i think. I define realistic as historically correct as the game will allow or is possible. TM is not 100% historically correct, but rather 75% to 80% historically correct. The other 20% to 25% is a little give and take for another subjective term called "gameplay". That said, i strive for historical accuracy when i can.

[exponent8246]

I take it you mean "harder" as in tactically engaging the enemy and setting up for a strike etc?? I think I will give TM a try. I just gotta make that next step thats all!!:rotfl:

I've just noticed a glich with RSRDC. When I am on the surface or at P-Depth with my scope up, The game slows when a number of ships are near but it doesnt revert back to real-time when a ship is spotted but it does when a sonar contact is spotted?

You ever noticed that??

[Front Runner]

OK.

I was going to try TM but it stressed (in the thread TM) that it was very realistic and although I have been playing SH2, SH3 and SH4 for a number of years now, I have never been able to break myself away from the ease of just selecting a target, setting the torp depth and speed and then just firing.

Basically, I have never used the TBC to manually fire a torp.:oops:

Maybe I should take the next step huh??

Yeah, you should try it.
Once you master the concepts of manual targeting, you will never go back to auto targeting!:know:

There are several excellent tutorials on the forum to give you a step by step "how to" here...

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=118923

[ReallyDedPoet]

Multiple installs are not that difficult to do. The first thing I did when I patched to SH4 1.4 was to copy and paste to Clean SH41-4 Folder I renamed in Program Files. I don't touch this install, it is for quick access to a clean set of files, comparing files, etc.

Now the same can be done with other installs, copy the Main Silent Hunter Folder and paste it into your newly named RFB Folder ( under Programs ). Add in JSGME so you can install mods, etc to that install. Mine are Career, Test, etc....

Also, there is a great little app. called Multi SH4, this will allow you to have separate save folders in My Documents, without using this app, your install saves will be difficult to keep track of. Do a search for this and you will find it.

I run Trigger, ROW, some sub skins, along with some of the radio mods. There is some other stuff as well, but those are the main ones. There is really no right or wrong, it is more due to personal preference.

There are many great mods with SH4, check out the 1.4 Compatible Thread, this is a nice site as well: http://www.downbelow.net/


RDP

[exponent8246]

Hi Front Runner.

Thanks for the info pal.

Ive just installed TM with ROW.

Gonna ease myself into it by doing some single patrols to get the hang of it.
Thanks for the tutorial link by the way.

Thanks to you too reallydeadpoet. You have been extremely helpful (never heard of down below) just had a quick browse, looks like good stuff.

Thanks again.:up:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Have fun :yep::up:


RDP

[AVGWarhawk]

Looks like you got it sorted Exponent. Personally I hate cranking out 50+ rounds for nothing. But, there are so many variables for the cannon in RL that the game does not allow. We have to take into account aiming after loading. The sway of the submarine in a water environment. These two factors alone are not present with the stock cannon. So, what do we do against the super cannon with 200 rounds? It gets castrated a bit and longer load times. Really just set up for junks and sampans. These were the normal targets anyway. I rarely use the cannon if at all on most patrols. It is very much a secondary weapon for me.

[exponent8246]

Hi AVGWarkawk.

Yeah, ive sorted it now and got used to the fact that I no longer have a cannon that fires depleted uranium, which seems to be the case in the stock version.

I have now gone for TM with ROW with many ROW effects.

Lovin it so far. Like the campaign structure and the changes made.

Like the addition of the Narwhall class but havent tried it due to its sheer weight and size!! It cant be good for handling and speed!! (and TWO deck guns):rotfl: :rotfl:

Any extra (compatible) mods you can recommend mate?? (eye candy and sounds)??

[AVGWarhawk]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=126875


List of other mods you can use. The pocket watch mod is neat. Many to choose from.

[DrBeast]

@exponent8246: Add RSRDC to the mix, and there you have it: a near-perfect setup for SH4, gameplay-wise :up:
As for eye-candy etc, check out the link AVG provided. Like he said, lots and many of mods to choose from ;)

ETA: With regards to visual damage, when I was tinkering with boat armor and Hit points and other stuff, I noticed that, for damage to be visible, there is one criterion that has to be met: whatever hits your boat must surpass your ship's Armor Rating. So, if a shell with an AP value of 10 hits your boat (which has a default Armor Rating of 25), you won't see any visual indicators of damage. If a shell exceeding AP 25 hits you, you'll see a big, nasty hole in your hull (or it could be small, but it would still be nasty). Mind you, I'm only talking about the visual aspect of damage (i.e. graphics changes to the boat).

[exponent8246]

Adding RSRDC you say??

Sounds interesting!!:up:

I think i'm gonna go for that. What is the install process? ie - whats the order as far as JSMG is concerned?
What with having ROW, RFB, TM etc

Thanks for the link AVG! Great stuff:up:

Thanks guys!!

[DrBeast]

Adding RSRDC you say??

Sounds interesting!!:up:

I think i'm gonna go for that. What is the install process? ie - whats the order as far as JSMG is concerned?
What with having ROW, RFB, TM etc

Thanks for the link AVG! Great stuff:up:

Thanks guys!!

It's all in the first post of the RSRDC thread. You can't miss it ;)

[exponent8246]

:oops: OK mate:oops:

Thanks bud.

[DrBeast]

:oops: OK mate:oops:

Thanks bud.

Don't mention it ;)
Oh, and I'd take a pint of Guinness over a river of Buds, thank you very much! :rotfl:

[vindex]

I'm playing 1.4 with TM, NSM, and ROW (installed in that order). Overall, it works well, but my one gripe is the DG seems too weak. I agree that the DG was overpowered in vanilla, and needed to be toned down. But now I can pound away with my DG all day without effect unless I get a really lucky shot that blows the whole target sky high (which has happened).

Maybe the problem is NSM. I know they had to boost the torpedos to 2x in order to compensate for tougher damage/sinking model. Perhaps the DG needs to be boosted along similar lines. I particularly notice that the AP rounds are useless except for range-finding ... the HE rounds will eventually do some damage, but the key word is eventually. I can cripple a ship with my DG, but I usually have to finish it off with a torp.

[DrBeast]

I'm playing 1.4 with TM, NSM, and ROW (installed in that order). Overall, it works well, but my one gripe is the DG seems too weak. I agree that the DG was overpowered in vanilla, and needed to be toned down. But now I can pound away with my DG all day without effect unless I get a really lucky shot that blows the whole target sky high (which has happened).

Maybe the problem is NSM. I know they had to boost the torpedos to 2x in order to compensate for tougher damage/sinking model. Perhaps the DG needs to be boosted along similar lines. I particularly notice that the AP rounds are useless except for range-finding ... the HE rounds will eventually do some damage, but the key word is eventually. I can cripple a ship with my DG, but I usually have to finish it off with a torp.

If you find the Deck Gun too weak, deactivate NSM, delete the Shells.zon file from that mod, and then reactivate it. You'll now have vanilla DG damage. WernerSobe states explicitly that he's toned down the DG damage significantly (first post of the NSM thread).

[exponent8246]

I have now installed TM, RSRDC, ROW and MSN Lite in that order (as well as numerous sound, effects and skin mods).
I have found that my initial deck gun problem has now been resolved.
I am now seeing visible damage again:rock: and the effect of the deck gun shells seems to have normalised (although not as strong as vanilla) never-the-less, I am now extremely happy with the end result.
TM mixed with RSRDC (with ROW and its numerous effects) has made this game pretty much complete for me now!


Really Happy now!! The only thing this game really needs is a lot more sound effects. Even though I have a couple of sound effect mods installed, it is sometimes still lacking but I can deal with that. I am aware that the "destroyer in attack run" sound mod is struggling to come to fruition due to hardcoded files due to the game being rushed out at the end.

Oh well, its still great!!

[DrBeast]

Keep an eye out for the TRM-related threads. Some of the missing sounds are now back. There's one thread each for the various sub classes (S-, Porpoise, Gato, Salmon, Balao).

[exponent8246]

Thanks DrBeast.

I will certainly keep an eye out mate because even the little sounds (like a tube door opening) can make all the difference!!

Thanks!:up: