[WIP] Panther's Pitch Mod - Testers needed

[panthercules]

I'd posted this in my latest "poll" thread, but it was kinda buried deep in there and I wasn't sure how many folks who had already looked and voted there would still be following that thread, so I thought it might help to attract testers if I started this in its own thread.
Well, I finally got a combination that seems to be pretty decent and, as far as I can tell so far, doesn't seem to have broken anything I can find. I think this is about as good as it's going to get, at least for now, since trying to go further in any directions seems to be breaking something different along the way. Here is a link to a video of my "release candidate" settings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDX4apAI7lM

At the moment, the only one I have JSGME-ready for testing is the Salmon Class using what I believe to be the latest RFB/ROW files as the base. I could use a couple of folks willing to test out that setup just to doublecheck and see if they can find anything broken with it.

I'm going to start tweaking the other sub classes with my RFB/ROW base, and then I'll try doing some with the TM/ROW files as the base, and I'd like to be guided as far as priority goes by whatever types I get volunteer testers for (e.g., if I get more volunteers wanting to test Gatos with RFB and Porpoises with TM, I'll try to do those first).

If you want to take a crack at testing some of these, please PM me and be sure to specify which sub class you want to test and whether you want to use the RFB/ROW version or the TM/ROW version, and I'll PM you back with the link to the test package when I get it worked up. There's so many earlier versions out there, I'll only be making versions using the latest files from those two combination mod packs, so if you're not running the latest versions it may not be worth testing these (they may work, but if they don't I won't be able to help figure out why 'cause I'll only be working with the latest versions).

I guess I'll have to have a talk with the RFB, ROW and TM modders to make sure they're going to be OK with me using their files before I actually release anything here. Ultimately, if the testing doesn't reveal any real problems I'd love to see those mod teams consider incorporating these changes into some upcoming version of their mods - easier for me (not having to keep trying to update this stuff as those mods evolve) and easier for all the RFB/ROW and TM/ROW users as well. In fact, if it all works out and they want to use this, then depending on the update/release schedules for RFB/ROW and TM/ROW, I might not even have to release anything separately at all (other than the list of changes for the do-it-yourself types out there). It will take a while for the testing cycle to run its course, so there'll be time to deal with that down the road - just didn't want anybody to think I was planning to just grab and use those Mods' files for a release without permission or anything like that.
Thanks for the help :up:

[DrBeast]

Grrr...a curse and a plague on those who deemed that January and February are ideal months for University exams! I'll be computer-less as long as my g/f has to study for her final exams, so it's no go for me...but damn it, I'd LOVE to test this out for you! All I can do now is wish you best of luck with this project :up:

[donut]

I will try it out w/Foo's scene.dat,for ROW/TM/Balo

[panthercules]

I will try it out w/Foo's scene.dat,for ROW/TM/Balo

Cool thanks - I don't have Foo's scene.dat file (wish I did, but I'm only using the latest "official" ROW stuff that was released before Leo died) - once the new ROW stuff is released I'll switch to using it, but for now I'll set it up with the latest "official" one and you can make the changes to the scene.dat you're testing.

The S-class RFB/ROW version didn't take very long to do and looked pretty good on initial viewing - it's out for testing to someone now (other testers welcome for that too). I don't have a TM install setup yet, but I did D/L the latest TM version to use with this testing so I'll give this a shot and PM you with the link when it's ready.

Thanks for pitching in :up:

[panthercules]

OK - the Balao TM/ROW version is out to Donut for testing (other testers welcomed for that version too, of course).

The Balao RFB/ROW version is also ready for testing, if anybody wants to give it a shot just PM me.

So far so good, but it's getting late here - hopefully will have a few more ready for testing tomorrow, but gotta knock off for the night.

[panthercules]

Ok - Gato versions on RFB/ROW and on TM/ROW are ready for testing - if anyone wants to give them a shakedown cruise, please PM me.

[panthercules]

Ok - S-Class and Salmon versions on TM/ROW are ready for testing - if anyone wants to give them a shakedown cruise, please PM me.

[panthercules]

Ok - Sargo Class versions on TM/ROW are ready for testing - if anyone wants to give them a shakedown cruise, please PM me.

[kapitan_zur_see]

Looks good! I certainly like it ;)

[panthercules]

By the way, in the process of creating the spin-offs for the other subs, I've discovered a couple of things:

1. When I created my RFB/ROW install setup (from which I derived the files I used for the base of the ones I've been referring to as "RFB/ROW"), I let ROW over-write all the RFB submarine files that are affected by this pitch mod, so the version I have created for "RFB/ROW" should also work the same for a "Stock/ROW" install (i.e., without RFB).

2. When I created the version I've been calling "TM/ROW", I used the submarine files in the latest TM download I could find (1.7.5.7). However, if you install ROW over TM (so that the ROW files will over-write the affected TM submarine files), then the version I've been calling "RFB/ROW" is actually the version you should use, even with TM. You should only use my "TM/ROW" version if you installed TM after ROW (or otherwise did not let ROW over-write the affected TM submarine files).

I'll be re-naming my test modules to something like "ROW last" and "TM last" to try to clear up any confusion about which one you should use. I'll have to take another look at the RFB thread and see if there's any reason to need an "RFB last" version as well.

[panthercules]

OK - combined versions for the Tambor and Gar Classes (the Gar apparently uses the Tambor 3D model) for both "ROW Last" and "TM Last" installs are ready for testing - if you want to give either of those versions a shakedown cruise, please PM me.

I've redone, renamed and re-uploaded all the previous test versions to fit the "ROW Last" and "TM Last" terminology mentioned in my post above (this did not affect the actual mod files being tested, but it did break the earlier download links I've PM'd the testers), so if any testers hadn't managed to D/L the test files yet and now get broken links, just PM me and I'll send you the updated links - if you already D/L'd the files before, you don't need to do so again.

[panthercules]

OK - final batch - versions for Porpoise Class for both "ROW Last" and "TM Last" are now ready for testing - If you want to give either of those a shakedown cruise, please PM me.

That should be all the subs ready now (except for TM's Narwhal) for both "ROW Last" and "TM Last" installs.

I can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel - just hope it's not a train :o

[Torps]

Count me in:up:

[donut]

Wash-over-gundeckhttp://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5876/sh4img20080122160745921fn0.png (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/)
Up-a-wave
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9314/sh4img20080122171841156iz2.png (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/)
Into-A-wave
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/908/sh4img20080122165431546uw6.png (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/)
Tests

[panthercules]

Well, if you don't mind your watch crew disappearing on you several times during the first couple of minutes after you surface in a storm, then it would probably be ready. I'd already discovered that the boats behaved differently when loading in from a saved game on the surface versus after diving and resurfacing, and I had adjusted my testing to deal with that. Unfortunately, however, there also seems to be some difference in the way the game makes the boats behave in the first few minutes just after surfacing versus after having sailed on the surface for a while (e.g., at higher TC).

In what was going to be my very last set of test runs this afternoon before releasing this, I scanned around the horizon (I had been kinda locked in looking forward watching the bow cut through the waves earlier) and discovered that my watch crew was still disappearing and re-appearing for upwards of 2 minutes or maybe more after ordering the boat to surface from periscope depth.

After much frustration I finally tracked down the cause of that problem and was able to get rid of it, but unfortunately that fix also got rid of most of the pitching motion and introduced a few other undesirable side effects to boot. I've got some thoughts about another possible fix that would hopefully allow me to retain the increased pitching motion of the current release candidate, but I'm out of time for testing tonight and have got some hunting to do to find what I need to try.

So, unfortunately, I won't be able to release this tonight as originally hoped. Sorry for the delay.

[Sailor Steve]

:damn:

I'm out. I finally have my own computer set up, but my RAM update has to wait awhile. I can play SH3, but not SH4 yet.

Soon, though, I'll be a willing tester.:sunny:

[ustahl]

How long will the Pitch 'n Roll Mod be delayed further, or have you run into an incurable dead end? I hope you haven't given up, and the problem you described in posting #15 will be solved.:yep:

I'm eagerly awaiting the Pitch Mod release, and cannot wait to apply it together with Kriller2's upcoming Pacific Environment Mod for ROW. The result must/will be movie-like.:know::sunny:

[panthercules]

Well, 6 alternative Release Candidates later and I still haven't come up with an acceptable version that gets rid of the "disappearing crew" problem and still generates pitching action that's sufficiently better than stock/ROW to be worth the trouble, and yet doesn't introduce some other adverse side effect that's worse than the disappearing crew. :damn:

I'm currently re-testing my best Release Candidate to confirm that the only problem with it really is the crew problem. My inclination at this point is that, unless this last testing reveals some other hidden problem, I'll probably go ahead and release this as a "beta" version even with the crew problem later this weekend, because:
1. I'm getting really tired of screwing with this and just making it worse, to the point where I've gotten close to just chucking it completely several times; and

2. I'm basically out of fresh ideas for now, and I just want to play the game with it a little bit and get out of "test mode" for a while; and

3. That way folks could use it if they want, or not use it if the crew thing bothers them, but with it out there for folks to play around with maybe someone will stumble on the solution to the crew problem before I do.

Stay tuned.

[donut]

I think you have lowered the hull depth to far,triggering the crew on deck,& deck gun axcess switches. I feel your modding frustrations,I have them also:yep: :lol:

[panthercules]

I think you have lowered the hull depth to far,triggering the crew on deck,& deck gun axcess switches. I feel your modding frustrations,I have them also:yep: :lol:

Unfortunately, it does not seem to be that simple - regardless of hull depth settings (I've tried them stock and shallower as well as deeper in various iterations), anything which actually causes the boat to pitch up and down enough to feel/look "right" also seems to cause the boat to rise and fall just on either side of the depth that triggers the crew to come and go. I've gotten sort of close several other times, but there always seems to be some other problem that crops up with those other approaches.

Although the crew problem is certainly a serious one and I'm really bummed about not having been able to eliminate it yet, it does seem to occur only for the first few minutes after surfacing and only in the absolute worst weather, so I may go ahead and release the beta version with this problem and hope that either (1) I or someone else can figure out how to make the crew stay up on the bridge just a few feet deeper than usual without screwing something else up, or (2) I or someone else can figure out how to make the boat take less time after surfacing to finish blowing its ballast tanks or whatever else is going on that makes the boat behave "normally" after cruising for a few minutes on the surface. Even in the 15 m/s winds/seas where this problem exists, the crews work just fine after about 3 or 4 minutes on the surface - if the boats would just reach that "steady state" after the first minute or so instead, everything would be great.

[panthercules]

Well, it looks like this work is being overtaken by events, so I am suspending work on this mod to await further developments with RFB and TM. Testing on this is taking me forever - I've found the results have been too unreliable using saved games and single missions, and the process of starting new careers with each boat and cruising around until I happen to encounter heavy weather is just taking way too long, for too little good result so far.

Besides, with all the new work going on with TM and RFB to incorporate the ROW files into those mod packages as well as to make other changes to the boats' behaviors (e.g., the work swdw has released in beta already on the boat drafts, diving behaviors etc.) that all change the same files and sometimes the same parameters as this pitch work, anything I was trying to do here is very likely either to be unnecessary (if all goes well and the RFB and/or TM work manages to come up with decent boat motion along the way) or to need to be done all over again once that other work is released. Of course, extensive testing would again be necessary at that point to make sure whatever was done to help the pitch didn't screw up any of the new changes these other folks are making now to TM and RFB.

So, as much as I hate to admit defeat (even perhaps just a temporary one), I think the only sensible thing to do is to suspend work on this pitch stuff for now, and take another look at it in a few weeks once the next rash of RFB and TM releases occur. Hopefully the boats will be moving so well with those releases that I won't even be tempted to start this up again.

Thanks to everyone who pitched in with suggestions, encouragement and help with testing the earlier versions. Sorry it didn't pan out :cry:

[Torps]

Well, it looks like this work is being overtaken by events, so I am suspending work on this mod to await further developments with RFB and TM. Testing on this is taking me forever - I've found the results have been too unreliable using saved games and single missions, and the process of starting new careers with each boat and cruising around until I happen to encounter heavy weather is just taking way too long, for too little good result so far.

Besides, with all the new work going on with TM and RFB to incorporate the ROW files into those mod packages as well as to make other changes to the boats' behaviors (e.g., the work swdw has released in beta already on the boat drafts, diving behaviors etc.) that all change the same files and sometimes the same parameters as this pitch work, anything I was trying to do here is very likely either to be unnecessary (if all goes well and the RFB and/or TM work manages to come up with decent boat motion along the way) or to need to be done all over again once that other work is released. Of course, extensive testing would again be necessary at that point to make sure whatever was done to help the pitch didn't screw up any of the new changes these other folks are making now to TM and RFB.

So, as much as I hate to admit defeat (even perhaps just a temporary one), I think the only sensible thing to do is to suspend work on this pitch stuff for now, and take another look at it in a few weeks once the next rash of RFB and TM releases occur. Hopefully the boats will be moving so well with those releases that I won't even be tempted to start this up again.

Thanks to everyone who pitched in with suggestions, encouragement and help with testing the earlier versions. Sorry it didn't pan out :cry:

Alrighty Boss:up: