trigger maru

[Lt commander lare]

hi was wondering im getting ready to start my second patrol with the trigger maru mod and i was wondering if there are miefields in the main naval bases like tokyo bay and other places

lt commander lare

[LukeFF]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115258

[Ducimus]

I didn't add any adidtional mines from what were already present, primarly due to time constraints. I did however, increase the effectiveness of existing minefields.

[Lt commander lare]

can you tell me where the existing minefields are

thanks lt commander lare

[Ducimus]

Just use the mission editor and open data/campaigns/campaign/JP_minefield.mis, that will tall you all you want to know. :D

[ReallyDedPoet]

can you tell me where the existing minefields are

thanks lt commander lare

Hey, stop spoiling the fun :lol:


RDP

[Ducimus]

What was fun, was deliberatly setting them all on the surface in the editor, so i could physically see how many there were spawning in a given area.

I wanted to make it even more dense then they are now! But i remember there being rendering and slowdown issues in SH3 when minefields were too thick, so i was much more conservative then i wanted to be.

To give you an idea, if i remember right,
-old density was about 1 mine per 1sq km.
-New density is about 5 mines per sq km,

i wanted to make it 15 mines per 1 sq km, but didn't.

[ReallyDedPoet]

i wanted to make it 15 mines per 1 sq km, but didn't.

That would be just nasty :yep:


RDP

[Ducimus]

Shame we dont have the FM Sonar affectionatly known as "Hells bells".

[ReallyDedPoet]

Shame we dont have the FM Sonar affectionatly known as "Hells bells".

Never heard of that :roll: Little story here: http://www.bowfin.org/website/bowfin/bowfin_history/patrols/p_8/patrol_8.htm
And yes it is a shame :yep:


RDP

[M. Sarsfield]

I wish that there was a sound file on the net to hear the "chilling gong" noise.

[Wilcke]

Shame we dont have the FM Sonar affectionatly known as "Hells bells".

oh that would be "fun"....a mine field mapping mission.....bring plenty of Xanax for the frayed nerves.....:rotfl:

I just finished reading that little story in Silent Victory.....man those guys were something else...:up:

[Ducimus]

Want to hear something sad? I was digging around in the US sensor files.

There is an FM sonar and a broomstick in there. But how to get them working is beyond me at the moment.

edit:

I take tha back about the FM sonar, the models there, and i got a boat equiped with one. There is an UNUSED hydrophone node, slap it in, and i have an FM sonar head on my main deck. :up:

The trick will be to get all these hydrophones to work in concert with one another.

[Wilcke]

Ducimus...your having way to much fun...

[ReallyDedPoet]

Want to hear something sad? I was digging around in the US sensor files.

There is an FM sonar and a broomstick in there. But how to get them working is beyond me at the moment.

edit:

I take tha back about the FM sonar, the models there, and i got a boat equiped with one. There is an UNUSED hydrophone node, slap it in, and i have an FM sonar head on my main deck. :up:

The trick will be to get all these hydrophones to work in concert with one another.

Very nice work indeed, continue on with your digging :yep:


RDP

[Mush Martin]

Want to hear something sad? I was digging around in the US sensor files.

There is an FM sonar and a broomstick in there. But how to get them working is beyond me at the moment.

edit:

I take tha back about the FM sonar, the models there, and i got a boat equiped with one. There is an UNUSED hydrophone node, slap it in, and i have an FM sonar head on my main deck. :up:

The trick will be to get all these hydrophones to work in concert with one another.

:oExcellent (I hope)

[Ducimus]

My current plane with hydrophones, since i noticed there is TWO of them equpied (i think this is what causes the hydropone "blackout" for want of a better term).

The chin hydrophones, change them so they ONLY work on the surface, and then hope and pray that the hydrophone bar on the main deck, works submerged and the game automiticaly switches to it instead.


I sure do hope alot huh? Watch this plan fall apart the instant i try it. :rotfl:

edit:

I have noticed there are TWO hydrophone stations. Ill bet somehow, i have to get the other one accessible.

[Mush Martin]

Im sure that you can alter its effective min height etc.
the question is will it show mines on the tactical map
that werent showing before you had the FM hooked
up or on as it were.
M

[Ducimus]

Pretty sure it wont. Game was never that advanced.

[Mush Martin]

but you could attach a sound then hydrophone lines would show.
to the mines and add fm as mod insertable
upgrade pack, at least it would give the illusion. yes/no im uncertain
if its possible but I would be surprised if it wasnt. just set the mod
with an insertion date instruction so when you get to the correct
date for fm operational deployment. you put it in like late war sensors
in III. the opportunity under that circumstance allows for the surreptitious
change in the mines to appear associated with the sensor.

just a thought.
M

[Ducimus]

I just had a stark realization set in.

If anyone can check for me, or remembers (im at work atm), look at the upper left hand sonar readout when you view the sonar station. Not the one on your soundman is operating, the little one to the upper left of the active sonar.

Is it rotating on its own, or does it just sit there? (i know the gyrocompass works, im interested in the bearing indicator)

[Mush Martin]

Standby.............

Any version or TM?

[Ducimus]

Any version i think.

I have a hunch, and its a bad one.

[Mush Martin]

Ok so our freind on the left ...No noticeable movements.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/SH4Img2008-01-18_170132_078.jpg

our identical friend on the right same again

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/SH4Img2008-01-18_170209_046.jpg

The round sound bearing indicator on the right in the second picture
is spinning like a top however.

M

[Ducimus]

Every cross Gibralter in SH3, and get so annoyed at the contact spam you removed the operator from his seat so he'd shut the hell up?

Heres what i think.
The hydrophone on the right, is tied to the hydrophones on the boats chin. Since its manned, its always working.

The hydrophone on the left, is not tied to anything, but would have been tied to the hydrophone bar on the main deck.

Remember, the game can only use 1 sensor at a time, and it cannot use two of the same sensors simultaniously.

Even if i managed to reconnect the other hydrophone (which spins there on the main deck looking pretty but doing nothing), it would need a sonar operator to work. Just like placing or removing the crewman when crossing gibralter in sh3.

[Mush Martin]

You can put in a crewman in the sonar compartment
via the appropriate Conning upc. in UPCunitsdata.
there the rooms are broken down and crew slots
entered, as well as models of equip. I suspect
you would be able to add both a crewslot and
a crewman via the upc's

(I think)

[Ducimus]

Have to have a node for crewman, there are only three such nodes in the CT. Radar, sonar, and TDC.

[Mush Martin]

I suspect but do not know, that the node is essential for the
3d representation of the crewman however the crewslot on
crewmanagement and the crewmans actions and responses
I believe dont hinge on the node.

maybe! you have a bit more experience at this than I I'm just
a sounding board in this one.
M

[Ducimus]

Ill experiment when i get home. It starts with switching one hydro to work only on the surface, and the other, only while submerged, and see what happends, and go from there.

[Mush Martin]

Im actually not following you there why only on the surface for the one
I thought FM was a submerged tool from the accounts I read.
??
M

[Ducimus]

I want to see/verify if the game is using just the one hydrophone, and if the other one is unconnected.

If i switch the chin (hydroBall) to work only on the surface, and the other (hydroHead) only while submerged, then if approach a tin can under water.

IF
i get a sound contact
then, game is using hydro head

else

If no sound contact
Game is using JUST they hydro ball.


Whats the use of adding FM sonar if your not even sure if the game will use it? THats the point of this experiment.

[Mush Martin]

Now I get it, confirmation by isolation.
thanks.
M

[Ducimus]

Now I get it, confirmation by isolation.
thanks.
M

Why didn't i think of it in those terms. But yea. Im isolating it.

[Mush Martin]

Succinctness is actually pretty rare as a trait hereabouts.:rotfl:

[msb80sc]

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/msb80sc/fmsonar.jpg

Edited Equipment.upc and NSS_Porpoise.upc. FM sonar is listed already just need to fill in the blanks. Now I need to man a position or is this automatic?

[Ducimus]

Truthfully, i dont know. Reading up on this sonar implies that its an active sonar, infact it even had a PPI scope. If it is active sonar in the sim file, then i imagine activating it is as simple as doing a sonar ping that youd normaly do yourself. However i suspect it has to take the place of whatever active sonar equipment currently in use, else, its probably just a decoration.

Again, i don't know. Its all in how it behaves. Id have to plug away at it in my usual trial and error testing.

[Ducimus]

Theres no properties behind the FM sonar. There is no object in the sensors.sim file that is a child of the FM sonars ID number in the dat file.

Which means the object is declared, but not defined. It will do nothing right now.

[Travis Reed]

Any chance of getting a screenie of the eyecandy you found Duci (i.e. the unit mounted on deck or wherever it's mounted)? I'd put it on myself, but I'm not home now and won't really have the time to mess with it until next week.


Note: FM Sensor referred to as eyecandy as it's not presently functional.

[Ducimus]

http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/bogus_FM.jpg


Ok, im about to cite, what is probably the obvious to other modders, assuming their reading this. I never really looked into this in depth until now.

Heres the skinny, and i hope i can keep my thoguhts together.

The players active and passive sonar are attached to the object "Hydrophone_Ball2". Both sensors nodes, are pointed at this one object. By equiping this one object, you have both passive and active sonar.

This means that through the entire course of the war, there is only this set sonar sensor suite, (aptly named "stack" in the game, and they really are, indeed stacked) Now i could try and break off the active sonar portion of this and tie it to a new object, but what object? Theres really only so many places to attach it to, and you want to be historically correct.

Also, with upgrades, or making upgrades, the game expects progressive upgrades on the exact same equipment locations or slots. Something easy to do with radar since one replaces the other, but sonar is another matter. I can't make a sonar upgrade of the FM sonar from default "Hydrophone_Ball2" because it occupies a different location then the FM sonar.

The game also can only use 1 sensor type at a time. So the other hydrophone you see on the deck, is purely asthetic. It does NOTHING. The actual hydrophone assigment is being done in the UPC file. The JP sonar (i think its called JP, the horizontal bar), is acutally being assigned via the subs EQP file. In short, its nothing more then an asthetic acutrement.

The core problem is that this game is ultimatly a rework of the Sh3 engine. In SH3, you can only have one sensor type, at a time, and the game only uses one sensor at a time. Which is why when you use your periscope, you'll lose sonar contact for a little while, or why surface hydrophone contacts, disrupt radar contacts. If you look closely at what upgrades we do have, youll note that they are all different in sensor type, and one replaces the other.


I think the devs started on the FM sonar before they realized they shot themselves in the foot. For the FM sonar to work, i think theyd need to invent an entirely new sensor type, since the game only allows one type at a time.

[Mush Martin]

Can that be totally right?
in III RWR and Radar appear to work simultaneously