Good news for Sonalysts

[To be]

From the main subsim page, it seems Sonalysts got a 11.4 million dollar military contract. That should be good for them, and what is good for them, is no doubt good for us, as we are just a small subset of their buisness. So congrats from me, Sonalysts.

link to story (http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=2140118c-c64b-4e4d-a9d4-043c698bfae9)

[sonar732]

Well, not that I'm standing behind them, but it could explain the lack of their employees from participating in this forum. Hopefully, this could fair well as the article specifically states "Derived from commercial gaming products developed over the years by the Waterford company".

[Sea Demon]

Congratulations Sonalysts. Good work! :up:

[OneShot]

Interesting ... btw. for those who didnt know that particular tidbit yet ...
Through the research program, Sonalysts first proved the feasibility of its product, then developed a prototype, and now has been awarded the contract to continue producing and marketing the teaching tool, Goldsmith said. The Navy has recognized the result as a “success story.”
DW itself was a Feasibility Study ...

[Rotary Crewman]

Does that mean we're heading towards more controllable platforms? Including a Nimrod and Merlin Mk1? :yep:

Congrats by the way :)

[Zachstar]

Don't count on it at all.

Look at the above quote. It is no wonder the graphics were not high on the list. DW was simply a way to convince the Navy this was feasible.

What they earned on DW was burger money compared to the contract they got.

Yes they may come in and say "We love our users and possibly in the future we may get more platforms out" or whatever, however, it is a waste of time and a waste of employee money. Remember that what the Navy gets and what WE get is totally different.

If the DoD allows them too.. They ought to just stop selling DW and get part of the source code out. This may allow others to get new platforms in legally.

What they MAY want to do to make a tiny bit of money is make a deal with Valve to be paid 5 thousand or so to allow all their products to be made free on steam and valve stamped on it.. This will allow some extra profit and valve will be happy to get more free stuff on Steam to get more users. Valve added HL2DM along with a demo of portal to a package that is free to Nvidia users. This is the direction I think they are taking.

It is also good for them because Sonalysts will get more users of their products which might make them be considered more in future game projects.

Otherwise I think for now... Modern submarine simulation development has all but stalled and would be dead had Dr. Sid not started his subsim project.

Congrats to yall for winning the contract! Please give us somthing to remember you by!

[To be]

I wouldn't be so cynical, as this is the company that made not just DW, but Sub Command, Fleet Command, and 688(i) as well. It would be far easier for them to have just made a prototype, and not a game, which has the added hassles of distribution and support. Basically Sonalysts has given us these games, which gain them little, if any profit. So I would give them a little appreciation for that.

[Zachstar]

To be fair of course. My annoyance isn't with them.. It is the industry that seems to be turning it's back of simulation development.

People like Ubisoft ought to be doing these big game simulation projects.

Anyway don't take my annoyance to mean too much... What is important now is for them to get their products out for free to keep them from drowning in the shelves of abandonware. OR get the driveable code out so DW can be maintained.

It's simple buisness. DW has had it's day and Son. has it's big contract. There is NO money in continuing to support DW.

A trickle of sales does not pay the bills for the programmers.

[OlegM]

Indeed, how naive can you guys be? Get real. Zachstar is right, don't count on any new games or expansions. Since Jamie left SCS I don't thnk we heard a single word from anyone at Sonalysts.

Now if they won Big Money contract to develop something for the Navy they have even less motive to work on commercial products, that need to be marketed, supported, demoed, patched, and "defended" from a VERY demanding group of customers who always want more and complain what they have is not "realistic enough".

What they earned from us is peanuts, it always was peanuts, and with this contract in their pockets it will by comparison be even smaller peanuts.

For us gamers SCS is dead, we will most probably never see another game from them.

BTW this message is not a whine. I am thankful to Jamie personally, and to SCS for all the wonderful games they made and for all the good (and occassionally bad) time I had with them. DW is still on my PC and will remain.... probably for years to come.

I just lost any hope we will ever see another game or expansion from SCS. You better lose it too, and move on.

[To be]

It has been less than 3 years since DW came out, and already the thought that they are obligated to create a new game for you, or else they are the "Bad Guys" who are just in it for the military contracts. Well, that IS their business, and the fact that they made any games at all is sometime you should be appreciative for, and hope they do again, not assume that by not they are abandoning you. They are not a game company.

[OlegM]

It has been less than 3 years since DW came out, and already the thought that they are obligated to create a new game for you, or else they are the "Bad Guys" who are just in it for the military contracts. Well, that IS their business, and the fact that they made any games at all is sometime you should be appreciative for, and hope they do again, not assume that by not they are abandoning you. They are not a game company.

Where did I say that they are obligated to do anything? They are not obligated to do a new game. They are not bad guys. And they are not a game company (although a small "subset" called SCS WAS actually a game company but it was completely marginalized from the beginning).

I was just setting the record straight. They are not obligated to do anything, and neither they will. Don't expect anything, and certainly not as direct result of this contract (perhaps only the opposite - the commercial game was never further away).

[GlobalExplorer]

Bohemia Interactive also has a business model in which they develop software for the military and some years later move the improvements into games. So it can work this way.

But I dont expect anything from Sonalysts myself. DW revenue must have been very meagre.

[OlegM]

Bohemia Interactive also has a business model in which they develop software for the military and some years later move the improvements into games. So it can work this way.


Yes and the first commercial game BI released after "going military" (ArmA) is so crap I was paralysed when I first tried the demo. It was god-awful. Beyond words awful. Unspeakably awful.

Couple dozen patches later it's still pretty bad.

I cannot imagine military customers paying for that. In fact, on second thought, perhaps it's EXACTLY military that would pay for such crap :|\\

[Zachstar]

Well to get the topic back on track.

Who else thinks that they ought to get the games out for free on Steam? Obviously there is little point is continuing to maintain and sell it of course.

Now that I think about it, Now they will be even LESS willing to get the platform source code out. They want the money to continue to flow in afterwards and allowing the military to create playables may threaten to reduce their future contracts.

Free on Steam. Let valve buy the rights to market it for free and be done with it.

[NefariousKoel]

Grats to Sonalysts.

[goldorak]

Good for S.C.S
Now maybe we will have a patch that fixes certain crashes people still have playing in multiplayer.
At this point I honestly don't care anymore for expansion packs but stability in multiplayer/multistation is paramount.

[Zachstar]

The problem is now they got a contract to forfill that is giving them millions!

I HIGHLY doubt they will give ANY programmers ANY time on the clock to work on a patch.

Now is NOT the time to get hopes up unless they make an official statement saying they will do so.

[Molon Labe]

Congrats to SCS!

What I'd like to know is if anything from DW contributed to the training software...

[Dr.Sid]

I too think its bad news for DW, but maybe good news for its successor, in year or two.

[Fish]

DW itself was a Feasibility Study ...

So, we worked for Sonalysts so they could lure the navy with DW? :hmm: :D

[Fish]

It has been less than 3 years since DW came out, and already the thought that they are obligated to create a new game for you, or else they are the "Bad Guys" who are just in it for the military contracts. Well, that IS their business, and the fact that they made any games at all is sometime you should be appreciative for, and hope they do again, not assume that by not they are abandoning you. They are not a game company.

Where did I say that they are obligated to do anything? They are not obligated to do a new game. They are not bad guys. And they are not a game company (although a small "subset" called SCS WAS actually a game company but it was completely marginalized from the beginning).

I was just setting the record straight. They are not obligated to do anything, and neither they will. Don't expect anything, and certainly not as direct result of this contract (perhaps only the opposite - the commercial game was never further away).

Hi Oleg, don't they use the community as a big BETA group? Maybe that is why they bring out a new game now and then.

[Fish]

Congrats to SCS!

What I'd like to know is if anything from DW contributed to the training software...

It seems they use our maps. ;)

[PeriscopeDepth]

I too think its bad news for DW, but maybe good news for its successor, in year or two.

I think after DW there is a real possibility that Sonalysts will never again make a simulation for the gaming market.

PD

[Bubblehead Nuke]

Did anyone bother to READ the article? It said that they were going to create embedded software to teach people to be aircraft controllers.

The new “embedded training” software can be used in a classroom setting to teach the men and women who conduct submarine and surface warfare using aircraft to be air traffic controllers

This would have NOTHING to do with Dangerous waters except MAYBE teach them how to keep aircraft from colliding with each other. I seriously doubt that they would use the Naval Simulator Engine software for that kind of purpose. This is air trafic controllers training people.

Dangerous waters (the military version) will probably not see a dime of this money.

[Zachstar]

Which makes things even less likely they will spare programmers to get a patch or anything out...

[goldorak]

Which makes things even less likely they will spare programmers to get a patch or anything out...

Ok :shifty: there is nothing wrong wishing for a patch that fixes bugs (mostly CTD since they have been collecting this info for at least a year since the last 1.04 patch).
I was not advocating that S.C.S diverts substantial resources to making addons or even *gasp* giving us an SDK for modding.

[ASW Jedi]

SCS already sold the ASTAC portion of DW to the Navy. My unit Fleet ASW Training Center has it in their lab. The console is a more realistic version than DW but it uses the same concept. This new contract may be to port DW to the Air Intercept Controller watch station. The AICs are the ASTACs for fighter aircraft. Plus Dahlgren does alot with AEGIS. What does this mean for DW players worldwide? It mean that SCS may have a little money to throw into the Naval sim pot and crank something out. I like many others doubt it but I remain hopeful. Our unit uses DW as is as a tactical trainer and it functions okay as long as we don't split the platforms up among too many PCs.

James B

[Dr.Sid]

Now it would be nice from SCS to 'throw some money into Naval sim pot'. But if I had company, I would better find pots I don't need to throw money in.
SCS is company, not charity.

[Sea Demon]

I think it is still too early to speculate on anything. If anything, this is good news as it shows there is some demand deriving from the uses of their sim engine. Which means probable continued development of it. I'm not expecting anything myself, but I do know that if money is coming their way, it is better than if it weren't. I'm happy for Sonalysts. And more hopeful for future developments for us when I see anything like this.

[Zachstar]

A totally new navy game? Perhaps in a few years.

A serious patch for DW? Perhaps in a year or 2 if we are really lucky.

Think about it.. Who uses DW for more than an hour a week? If I had to guess I would say perhaps a hundred or less.

This is not SH4 where you got thousands of players noticing issues and mass calling for new patch versions.. This is a sim that failed in the retail market by a company that has just gotten millions to do other things.

I know it is great to hope but common! It is obvious that we will either have to wait or we have to find an alternative.

Perhaps if they just make it free on steam or some other idea to attract new players they could build some extra numbers needed to convince the company to spare some programmers for the purpose of "Maintaining the best public simulation our company has ever produced" or whatever. Just an idea.

Edit: Also consider this... SCS may want to distance itself from DW. I have seen many failed games completely abandoned by their companies from what I see to be a want for the failure to "vanish" in the minds of the retailers.

[Blacklight]

Think about it.. Who uses DW for more than an hour a week? If I had to guess I would say perhaps a hundred or less.


*Raises hand* I'm one of those hundred !!!:rock: