My guess as to why we had 8 years of GW Bush

[Zayphod]

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2008/01/rigging_elections

Reminds me of Nixon and his "Dirty Tricks" department.

In his hilarious-yet-disgusting political memoir "How to Rig An Election," former GOP operative Allen Raymond and ghostwriter Ian Spiegelman lay bare his role in the Republicans' 2002 Election Day scheme to jam the get-out-the-vote phone lines run by the New Hampshire Democrats and some local firefighters.

Before anyone qualifies this is "some liberal clap-trap", be reminded that his guy worked directly FOR the Republic Party.


Raymond consulted lawyers about the phone-jamming scheme and as soon as they informed him that the clearly unethical act wasn't illegal, he quickly hired an Idaho phone-banking firm for the job. After unleashing 800 calls in one hour on the Democratic phone banks on Election Day -- a kind of denial-of-service attack, he received a frantic phone call from McGee himself urging him to stop the jamming because McGee had discovered that it was illegal

For me, this nails it to the wall:
Aside from these brutally frank assessments, Raymond's message is ultimately earnest: He tells Americans that the reason they got stuck with two terms of President Bush's megalomaniac administration is because "election operatives like myself and the kind of politicians who hire us have ensured that idealists can't win elections."

My mom (a dyed-in-the-wool Republican) thinks Democrats may be underhanded, but for me, Republicans ain't quite so clean, either. Personally, I'm not much of a fan of either group. At least, this explains why Bush won twice by little more than the skin of his teeth (first in Florida, and re-election in Ohio, both of which had to be counted multiple times).

Maybe I should run for President of the Galaxy again....... :up:
At least, I know what's going on.

[SUBMAN1]

The answer is simple why we had 8 years of G W Bush - he was the best man for the job given the alternatives.

-S

[bradclark1]

The answer is simple why we had 8 years of G W Bush - he was the best man for the job given the alternatives.

-S
That was your vote. Not mine. :)

[SUBMAN1]

Yep I voted for him - twice. Could you imagine how screwed up we would be with Kerry in office? :D 'nuff said!

-S

[Prof]

At least, this explains why Bush won twice by little more than the skin of his teeth (first in Florida, and re-election in Ohio, both of which had to be counted multiple times).Bush won because the Democrats couldn't get through on the phones to harrass people into voting for them? This is a bad thing because...?

[Sea Demon]

Yep I voted for him - twice. Could you imagine how screwed up we would be with Kerry in office? :D 'nuff said!

-S
Or the off-balanced Gore for that matter from the 2000 election. Yikes!

George Bush might not be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but the Democrats just can't give us anything better. The American people even have a higher approval of Bush than they do of our failed do-nothing Democrat Congress.

[Ducimus]

My personal opinion - Bush got re elected because we were to chickens**t to vote in some new pile of horse manuere. I remember the debates, and one line of bush struck home to me. Went something along the lines of, "at least with me you know what your getting". That, and toss in the evangelical fundies who vote from the pulpit and not from any real world sense of logic or reasoning.

[SUBMAN1]

I expected a Kalifornian to chime in at some point! :D

-S

[Zachstar]

Subman stop acting childish.

If you love bush just say why and get it done with please.

[SUBMAN1]

Subman stop acting childish.

If you love bush just say why and get it done with please.Actually, I'd instead have to ask you to stop acting so serious! I'm having fun here! :D

-S

[August]

Subman stop acting childish.

If you love bush just say why and get it done with please.

I think you miss the point. George Bush isn't by any means a perfect president but when the Dems put up loosers like Kerry and Algore what other choice did people have? Ralph Nader?

[Zachstar]

I understand politics. I understand that Kerry was a stupid decision.

My problem was his comment above.

[SUBMAN1]

I understand politics. I understand that Kerry was a stupid decision.

My problem was his comment above.Quit taking it so personal. Take a breather from the site if you need. If you are not having fun here, then you need to take time off. I'm screwing with Ducimus is all. Nothing more.

-S

[bradclark1]

Subman stop acting childish.

If you love bush just say why and get it done with please.

I think you miss the point. George Bush isn't by any means a perfect president but when the Dems put up loosers like Kerry and Algore what other choice did people have? Ralph Nader?

I chose Gore over Bush still would today. Bush won because of the God squad not because he'd do better. Bush and Kerry? Would have been nice if both were lined out but nobody votes a "war time president" out.
Everyone said the youth vote would turn out. They didn't. They are saying it now with Obama. I really, really hope they don't.

[Skybird]

Great signature you have there, Brad! :lol:

[Zachstar]

Subman stop acting childish.

If you love bush just say why and get it done with please.
I think you miss the point. George Bush isn't by any means a perfect president but when the Dems put up loosers like Kerry and Algore what other choice did people have? Ralph Nader?
I chose Gore over Bush still would today. Bush won because of the God squad not because he'd do better. Bush and Kerry? Would have been nice if both were lined out but nobody votes a "war time president" out.
Everyone said the youth vote would turn out. They didn't. They are saying it now with Obama. I really, really hope they don't.

Everyone elgible needs to vote. The more votes = The harder it is to tamper with the results.

[August]

God squad

Your bias is showing Brad, and that's not very nice. These "God Squad" people are citizens of this country same as you and entitled to vote for whoever they want same as you.

[Ducimus]

I expected a Kalifornian to chime in at some point! :D

-S

Hey, Quiet you, or ill write my Govinator to come down on you like a phase plasma rifle in a 40 watt range!

[NEON DEON]

The reason we had George Bush for 8 years can be given in an unskybirdian two words!



ELECTORAL COLLEGE

[bradclark1]

God squad

Your bias is showing Brad, and that's not very nice. These "God Squad" people are citizens of this country same as you and entitled to vote for whoever they want same as you.
I know. It was meant to.

[SUBMAN1]

Hey, Quiet you, or ill write my Govinator to come down on you like a phase plasma rifle in a 40 watt range!Oh! I forgot! You've got Arnie on your side! I surrender!! I surrender!! :D

-S

[Ducimus]

Hey, Quiet you, or ill write my Govinator to come down on you like a phase plasma rifle in a 40 watt range!Oh! I forgot! You've got Arnie on your side! I surrender!! I surrender!! :D

-S


Smart man! I mean, i dunno about anyone else, but i woudlnt want to have a throw down with this guy.

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/thisweekineducation/upload/2007/05/arnold_governator.jpghttp://www.corporateswine.net/jams/governator.jpg


Ronald Regan was an actor, and he was from California too. So it must be ok! :rotfl:
I think. :shifty:

[Stealth Hunter]

The answer is simple why we had 8 years of G W Bush - he was the best man for the job given the alternatives.

-S
That was your vote. Not mine. :)

I vote we burn SUBMAN at the stake...

The man would not have done the best job. What's he done for us that's so great?

He's gotten us in a war that's claimed the lives of 3,500 people and 23,000 limbs (not to mention the 356,000 Iraqi's he's gotten killed), he's damaged our relationships with other countries, he's violated the Constitution, he's stirred up the Middle-East, he's lied over and over again, he's driving the economy into the ground (recession may already be here, it's hard to tell from our poor status), he's removing the middle class from society, he's sparked agression towards us Middle-Easterners (ALL of us; I can hardly get on a plane without having a security guard giving me a look; intolerant bastards), he's possibly going to start ANOTHER war (with Iran...), he's cut our education system's budget (3 BILLION dollars that could have gone to education was sent to Iraq; 1 MILLION was sent to the education system), he's reduced our dollar's value (an object that costs 36.99 POUNDS costs roughly $75.00 American), he's raised taxes, he's bashed the stock market to pieces (as has he the real estate market), he's violating our rights (wiretapping schemes and also his Internet tracking programs), and this list goes on and on!

For ****'s sake! How is that doing the best job anyone could have done?! Hell, a damned ape is better than this man! And that's an insult to apes! They're smarter than this stubborn jackass could ever hope to be!

By the way, you know that the government reads posts like these on Internet forums, right? Anytime someone makes a post like I have (questioning the president), they make note of it. I used to work for AT&T, and it hasn't changed a bit.

EDIT:

The government also checks for searches you make. Anytime you type in something like "terrorist" or "bomb" or "Iran", they monitor it and you. That's how they work. They can read the time off your digital watch. If they wanted to, they could even topple Google with a few keys, a few disks, and a couple of parameters entered into a command box.

[SUBMAN1]

I vote we burn SUBMAN at the stake...

The man would not have done the best job. What's he done for us that's so great?

He's gotten us in a war that's claimed the lives of 3,500 people and 23,000 limbs (not to mention the 356,000 Iraqi's he's gotten killed), he's damaged our relationships with other countries, he's violated the Constitution, he's stirred up the Middle-East, he's lied over and over again, he's driving the economy into the ground (recession may already be here, it's hard to tell from our poor status), he's removing the middle class from society, he's sparked agression towards us Middle-Easterners (ALL of us; I can hardly get on a plane without having a security guard giving me a look; intolerant bastards), he's possibly going to start ANOTHER war (with Iran...), he's cut our education system's budget (3 BILLION dollars that could have gone to education was sent to Iraq; 1 MILLION was sent to the education system), he's reduced our dollar's value (an object that costs 36.99 POUNDS costs roughly $75.00 American), he's raised taxes, he's bashed the stock market to pieces (as has he the real estate market), he's violating our rights (wiretapping schemes and also his Internet tracking programs), and this list goes on and on!

For ****'s sake! How is that doing the best job anyone could have done?! Hell, a damned ape is better than this man! And that's an insult to apes! They're smarter than this stubborn jackass could ever hope to be!

By the way, you know that the government reads posts like these on Internet forums, right? Anytime someone makes a post like I have (questioning the president), they make note of it. I used to work for AT&T, and it hasn't changed a bit.

EDIT:

The government also checks for searches you make. Anytime you type in something like "terrorist" or "bomb" or "Iran", they monitor it and you. That's how they work. They can read the time off your digital watch. If they wanted to, they could even topple Google with a few keys, a few disks, and a couple of parameters entered into a command box.Only 3,500 dead? Thats great! Talk about almost no casualties for going to war! That is a drop in the bucket! To put it into comparrison, 9,300 US citizens die yearly at the hands of illegal aliens, so I wish he would spend some more time over here rounding them up and shipping them back to their pathetic countries.

-S

PS. That rest of your arguments don't hold salt. There is no proof on even one of them.

PPS. For watching you with Echelon and the such, that was already in place by Bush's first taking hold in office. You can thank Clinton for the warrantless wiretaps. Bush didn't start it. He just continued it. But you wouldn't know that since you fail to read enough news to know better.

[Ducimus]

Personally, i won't put down Kerry and the other assorted candidates for one reason. Every choice, the whole thing, was one big, steaming pile, of red white and blue, bullsh*t. Would Kerry have done worse? (note its not a question of who'd had done better). I beleive that the truth is, the world will never know. Thats one reason why i think W got relected. We knew - or rather, had an idea - of what BS to expect from him. Kerry was a whole new pile of BS, and generally speaking, an unknown, and there wasnt anyway to tell if his BS would stink worse until we put it in the oval office.

In short - we go with what we know. In this modern day and age, we tend to reelect our presidents.

[Stealth Hunter]

Star-spangled-banner-REPUBLICAN ye are.:shifty:

Review:

Before Bush, almost every country's inhabitants liked the United States (polls show it). After Bush, hardly one like us (well, there's a couple, but not many).

Wiretapping and Internet monitoring IS a violation of the Constitution under Amendment 1 (Free Speech). Also note he started this war with Iraq WITHOUT Congress' approval (illegal in every respect).

Before we invaded Iraq, Saddam kept everything in line. He kept the terrorists out. After we invaded and took over, the terrorists began to move in. IF we leave, then this weak government that is in office at the moment will crumble, and it will become a terrorist nation (whereas Saddam prevented that... he was our closest ally).

I could pick from the list, but the one that always makes me chuckle is Iran's nuclear program. It's been inactive since 2003. That stubborn ass is just too arrogant to admit he made a mistake... if it was indeed one...:shifty:

We've spent over a trillion dollars on the war, and we pour trillions into the economy to keep it in good shape. That's a fact (June 2007 had one case in which he put in 500 BILLION; CNN covered it).

Notice everything for the middle class is getting harder and harder to buy? The rich get rich and the poor get poorer. What people like our senators and president are after is money. They constantly give themselves raises while they hardly ever consider the working man. Without us, the US would be NOTHING but an empty spit of land sitting between Canada and Mexico.

Ever sit in an airport and watch the way guards behave to people who look foreign? That's not proof, but it does raise suspicion.

Lying about a country claiming it has nuclear weapons and then trying to deny that he ever said it. Yeah, that's REALLY convincing. Oh, here's a good one: "It doesn't make any difference if we made a mistake . . ." IT MAKES A HELL OF A LOT OF DIFFERENCE! You tell us Iran has nuclear weapons, we find out it doesn't, and you say it doesn't matter? Jesus Christ!

Once again, CNN covered how a PRESIDENTIAL order diverted 3 billion dollars from education to the war in Iraq. That was a few months ago (like November). He gave education a million dollars. Tell me where I lack proof.

http://www.dollars2pounds.com/
Need I say more?

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/30/bush-raises-taxes-twice/
Two birds with one stone: taxes and lying.

Problems on the economy come from financial problems caused from spending billions upon billions on a senseless war.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/12/22/on_wiretapping_bush_isnt_listening_to_the_constitu tion/
Knocked down a couple birds with one stone there.



Care to continue?

EDIT:

Almost forgot to mention that according to him, the war is over... yet for some reason men keep dying due to terrorist activity...:hmm:

[August]

Also note he started this war with Iraq WITHOUT Congress' approval (illegal in every respect).

......

Tell me where I lack proof.

That's easy enough:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237

Do you actually believe everything you read at the DU? :roll:

[Peto]

Only 3,500 dead? Thats great! Talk about almost no casualties for going to war! That is a drop in the bucket!


Tell that to my son who has to pick up pieces of his friends "no bigger that a hamburger" (his quote). Who has watched squad-mates die in a burning Humvee. Who has been twice wounded himself. And who has to face the reality of killing people.

That's Great? Support our troops you ain't.

Peto and Pissed

[Enigma]

This complete dylussion that Dubya was somehow a better choice than....anyone actually, is really quite ammusing.

quite a track record there, Dubya. You must have been the right man for the job...

As for the OP: I heard the author on a radio interview last night. Disturbing, to say the least.

[Stealth Hunter]

However, that's a governmental site, so it's not surprising they'd put something like that up.:roll:

Bush entered the war without FULL approval. History Channel had a talk on it (on a program about Nostradamus; it was the section regarding the WTC attacks), and they included several senators who spoke out against him and said that he did in fact enter the war without approval. Why they brought them on, I don't know.

All I know is that I'll trust their word over a website that the government can change anytime they want it to be. Bush was careful, so besides the words of men, there's no concrete proof.

We could argue this forever, but there's no proof to support my fight. Believe what you like.

[Enigma]

Only 3,500 dead? Thats great! Talk about almost no casualties for going to war! That is a drop in the bucket!
True colors. (as if they were hidden...)

3,500 dead in an unneccesary war isnt great. and when you start harping your standard party lines about why thi swar was neccesary, well, I cant promise I'll be listening. You've already managed to offend the Father of one of the troops, and I'm sure the vast number of Military families or personal that come here. But feel free, keep at it....

[Stealth Hunter]

[quote=Stealth Hunter]
Only 3,500 dead? Thats great! Talk about almost no casualties for going to war! That is a drop in the bucket!


Tell that to my son who has to pick up pieces of his friends "no bigger that a hamburger" (his quote). Who has watched squad-mates die in a burning Humvee. Who has been twice wounded himself. And who has to face the reality of killing people.

That's Great? Support our troops you ain't.

Peto and Pissed

I didn't post that, Peto, SUBMAN did...

I've seen war. I fought for EIGHT YEARS against Iraq during our war with them (Iran). His comment sickens me, but his arrogant ass can't be changed on opinions. He's never had to watch his best friend lose his head to a hand grenade, or shoot someone in the heart, or bayonet someone in their gut, or beat someone to death with the butt of their gun.

The blood won't come off... no matter how much I scrub or cry or hope for forgiveness. It just won't come off. Arrogant little s*** has no idea what it's like.

He's just a stupid little boy. How disrespectful to his veterans. However, given his age, it's forgivable...

[Peto]

My mistake StealthHunter and quickly corrected. My sincere apologies! I was a little rattled when I responded...

Edit: and Thank You for your words. I don't know your pain--that type of knowledge can never be explained in a book. But I honor you with the same conviction as I do my son and all combat Veterans.

Salute!

[bradclark1]

Bush didn't start it. He just continued it. But you wouldn't know that since you fail to read enough news to know better.
I believe the fuss is/was over the level that Bush has pushed it.

[Stealth Hunter]

Perfectly alright. I've also done the same thing more than once.:lol:

[Stealth Hunter]

Bush didn't start it. He just continued it. But you wouldn't know that since you fail to read enough news to know better.
I believe the fuss is/was over the level that Bush has pushed it.

That's actually what I was focusing on.

[August]

Only 3,500 dead? Thats great! Talk about almost no casualties for going to war! That is a drop in the bucket!

Tell that to my son who has to pick up pieces of his friends "no bigger that a hamburger" (his quote). Who has watched squad-mates die in a burning Humvee. Who has been twice wounded himself. And who has to face the reality of killing people.

That's Great? Support our troops you ain't.

Peto and Pissed

"Great" certainly wouldn't be my choice of words either but truth be told 3500 dead is just a small fraction of what every other war in our history would have cost us over this length of time. For example Vietnam averaged 9000 KIA per YEAR during Americas most active presence, or going back further we lost 3600 in just one day at Antietam.

War will always be horrible, that's its very nature. There will never be a war where young men like your son don't have to watch their comrades die violently, but so far the butchers bill for this one has been comparatively cheap.

[Peto]

Cheap isn't quite the same when it wasn't nessecary in the first place. I was OK going into Afghanistan to go after Bin Laden. I never supported going into Iraq. Even with my moderate amount of international relations, I knew it was the wrong decision. And then how it was handled??? Sorry. This Administration went too far.

Wearing Emerald Tinted glasses doesn't win wars. Even Dorothy learned she had to take them off to see reality. And she was just a kid.

[August]

Wearing Emerald Tinted glasses doesn't win wars. Even Dorothy learned she had to take them off to see reality. And she was just a kid.
Yeah and what kind of tint do you need to ignore the fact that Saddam in power was a dagger aimed at our back? I agree that we could have done better, but good, bad or ugly, Saddam had to be taken out we couldn't just sit behind the no fly zone and allow him to regain stength.

[Peto]

Yeah and what kind of tint do you need to ignore the fact that Saddam in power was a dagger aimed at our back? I agree that we could have done better, but good, bad or ugly, Saddam had to be taken out we couldn't just sit behind the no fly zone and allow him to regain stength.

We can agree to disagree on this one August. I won't even say that you're wrong because from a certain point of view you aren't. Chances are, we could enjoy a cool one and talk about it face-to-face and both walk away mildly irritated but smiling :yep:!

[Zayphod]

This complete dylussion that Dubya was somehow a better choice than....anyone actually, is really quite ammusing.

quite a track record there, Dubya. You must have been the right man for the job...

As for the OP: I heard the author on a radio interview last night. Disturbing, to say the least.

Thank you - BTW, the post was not to indicate that the "other" side would have had a better candidate - the point was that the RNC jimmied the democratic process to their favor.

I currently believe they'll do it again this election year as well. So far, everyone's saying Obama or Hillary, but I'll bet 100 quatloos that a Republican will win, and 2 or 3 years down the road, they'll find the dirty tricks squad had something to do with it.

A country can vote one way or another, and yeah, sometimes the guy/girl you want don't always win, but it should be FAIR, and not jury-rigged in anyone's favor, and that's my take on the whole matter.

(BTW, yeah, there were probably a lot better choices than Kerry, too).