Merged: Prayer Circle/Anti-Christian Agenda

[Stealth Hunter]

READ THE DESCRIPTION ON THE LEFT FIRST.


This sickens me and disgusts me to no end. Grade-A religious freaks in that town, especially the girl who put her arm around the one who refused to join in (read the description to see what she said).

This is why I hate religion.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npqbgBHYSKk&feature=RecentlyWatched&page=1&t=t&f=b (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npqbgBHYSKk&feature=RecentlyWatched&page=1&t=t&f=b)

[AVGWarhawk]

Hmmmm....I do not know how they could justify school expulsion for that. Something is fishy here:shifty:

[silentrunner]

I just finished reading a thread about Evangelical war on evolution. People stated that the children in the video were brainwashed to belive something and that it is horrible to teach children that way. If you have seen page 8 of the "who will be the next president of the US" thread; then you would know what I think about religion. Also you would know that I am not a Protestant Evangelical Christian but a devout Roman Catholic and a firm believer of the words of Saint Josemaria Escriva the founder of Opus Dei. I am not silent about my beliefs and ties to Opus Dei so I am no stranger to being ridiculed for my beliefs. Why is it that when a science teacher tells a class full of students that they came from apes and that their life has no significance and just a cycle of life they get a pat on the back. But when a child goes to church or a retreat where someone tells them that they are not just a sack of cells. That they are loved by someone higher than them, that they don't have to worry about death because if they believe they will go to a place without crime and death and war; they are thought of as horrible brainwashing people. Who are destroying the world. Above my desk I have a picture of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Whenever I see this picture all troubles seem to fade away because I belive that they are only temporary. My brothers in Opus Dei have been criticized for years. Why? Because they teach children to believe that no matter what happens everything will be allright in the end, that they should go to Mass as often as they can. That they should pray the Rosary evryday because the Rosary is the most powerfull weapon at your disposal. If you are not Christian than you do not know what I mean by saying that all seems right with the world when you pray the Rosary. Any body in a different religion knows what I mean about how you feel during prayer. Other theistic religions are criticiszed to. Just because they teach people to look forward to something.

[Stealth Hunter]

Small Christian town. I thought about the administrator in school. Wonder if he/she ever really studied the Constitution and Amendments... (*cough* first amendment *cough*)

[Stealth Hunter]

I utterly despise the Evangelicals WITH A GODDAMN PASSION.

You didn't watch this video by chance, did you?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xKDKq_PPbk

[silentrunner]

yes in fact I did I don't find any thing wrong with it whatsoever. Oh and why use the LORD's name in vain in you don't believe in him.

[Ducimus]

Unfortunatly i think its a sign of the times we live in, or rather a reaction to it. In recent years (past 10 or so), theres been a wave of religious fundamentalism on the rise. Not sure why, although one could list many reasons for it. What is distressing is how some of our rights are being interppreted these days. To many of these fundamentalists, "Freedom OF religion" does not mean "Freedom FROM Religion", which is a gross abuse of our inalieable rights in order to assert dominance upon our society.

[Stealth Hunter]

I feel sorry for those poor kids.

"Why do you believe in Creationism?"

"Because... because it says that God created the Earth in the Bible..." -Little girl that wasn't even 6-years old

When you start forcing this stuff on kids, then it becomes my business because I won't tolerate it. Hell, it might not be my kid, but I'm not going to let you brainwash such an innocent and helpless child.

I would do the exact opposite. I would sit down with the child and teach them about all the religions man has created. I would tell them about what I believe (in the situation where I'm the parent, of course) and then explain to them that they can choose whatever religion they want, or they don't even have to choose one if they don't want to; I wouldn't force it on them. You'll scare the bejesus out of them by saying, "DON'T LIE, OR YOU'LL BURN IN HELL FOR YOUR SINS!!! FOR ALL ETERNITY!!!"

Those teenagers were so brainwashed it wasn't even funny. "Yep, I'm gonna disprove evolution and win a Nobel Prize!" -Gothic looking one

Evangelicals are Grade-A hypocrites (Type-R). They're also stubborn and closed-minded. They go out swinging with all these ideas and say, "We have the answers, good people! Flock to us! Everyone else is wrong! We're right! We know the true lord! Not the other religions! We've seen the light!" They claim that people who don't believe in the Bible are ignoring the facts, while they're ignoring science and truth.

The Bible says a lot of things... and not very clearly... Just remember that God didn't write it, MAN wrote it. Simple, imperfect, microscopic men of the ages...

We're not even a grain of sand in this universe. Other forms of life out there are also bound to have these ideas of Gods, but the chance anyone of them even remotely comes close to nailing what God's plan is over a trillion-billion to .0001.

I also think religion causes more problems than it solves (Romans burning the Christians who then toppled them and sent us into the Dark Ages? The Crusades? The Inquisition? The Salem Witch-Hunts? The Holocaust? Jihadists? How about all the unfair treatment people have endured because their beliefs differ, because they don't fall in line with what society deems "normal"?).

[Ducimus]

One of these days, the religious establishments of the world will finally get it through their thick skulls this old saying:

"The quickest way to make an enemy of someone, is to try and change them"

[Stealth Hunter]

In this day of age, the Constitution and law doesn't seem to man jack-s**t. It's been so grossly gored by these people that it's not even funny... it's just sad.

[Stealth Hunter]

Here, here!:-?

[silentrunner]

All people tak about is non religeous people being treated badly if I was at school and during a class pulled the Rosary out of my pocket and started praying I would most likely be punished in some way. I couldn't get out of my seat and kneel to pray I have to silently pray when I feel I should. But nobody claims that I am being mistreated.

[Stealth Hunter]

I never said treated badly, I said unfairly, and that's something every person faces at one point or another due to their beliefs.

[AVGWarhawk]

I have always found the best way to keep friends is keeping my conversations away from religion and politics. Might be a good idea here.

[silentrunner]

I never said treated badly, I said unfairly, and that's something every person faces at one point or another due to their beliefs.But you are the one constantly talking about atheists being treated unfairly but when something happens to a Christian you say that everyone is treated unfairly.

[sonar732]

In this day of age, the Constitution and law doesn't seem to man jack-s**t. It's been so grossly gored by these people that it's not even funny... it's just sad.

As one of your prior post eluded...it goes both ways as both secs claim they are being treated unfairly by the others when it comes to the Constitution.

You are being just as closeminded as we christians are.:roll::roll:

[silentrunner]

In this day of age, the Constitution and law doesn't seem to man jack-s**t. It's been so grossly gored by these people that it's not even funny... it's just sad.

As one of your prior post eluded...it goes both ways as both secs claim they are being treated unfairly by the others when it comes to the Constitution.

You are being just as closeminded as we christians are.:roll::roll:Finnaly we have a good Christian person on this forum.

[Stealth Hunter]

In this day of age, the Constitution and law doesn't seem to man jack-s**t. It's been so grossly gored by these people that it's not even funny... it's just sad.

As one of your prior post eluded...it goes both ways as both secs claim they are being treated unfairly by the others when it comes to the Constitution.

You are being just as closeminded as we christians are.:roll::roll:

Not really considering Separation of Church from State, which should be enforce.

Go to church to worship, go to school to learn; DON'T combine the two.

[Dowly]

Ok, now that is completely BS what happened! :o I hope she wins the lawcase.

[sonar732]

Finnaly we have a good Christian person on this forum.
Iceman should be noticing these post pretty quick and you'll really see someone who is passionate about his religion.

Even though I'm a christian, I am a moderate as I see both sides of an issue. For instance, I was shocked with Pat Robertson was making his comments about Chavez being assassinated, yet praying to God on his idiot 700 club show.

Then, on the otherside of the story, to have the ACLU complain because a group of christian kids want to go out and pray during their lunch, but totally endorse a GBLT group to post their posters all over the school.

[Takeda Shingen]

Merged. We don't need two threads to discuss the same core issue. Keep it civil. Keep it reasonable.

The Management

[sonar732]

In this day of age, the Constitution and law doesn't seem to man jack-s**t. It's been so grossly gored by these people that it's not even funny... it's just sad.
As one of your prior post eluded...it goes both ways as both secs claim they are being treated unfairly by the others when it comes to the Constitution.

You are being just as closeminded as we christians are.:roll::roll:
Not really considering Separation of Church from State, which should be enforce.

Go to church to worship, go to school to learn; DON'T combine the two.

Now that the USA is more diverse than it was even in the 50's, I see the point of keeping it out of school.

However, as my other post shows, if you make it one way for one group of people, do the same for another group. Don't tell a group of christian kids they can't pray publically, then allow a group of muslims to openly do the same as not to offend their religion.

[Chock]

I think the point here is that you can choose to believe in creationism if you want to, or not, but forcing it on young minds is not allowing them a choice.

The vast majority of 'believers' around the globe have not made a choice to believe their creed, but had it impressed upon them to a greater or lesser degree by either parental beliefs, peer pressure, or schooling, I'm sure most people who have been subjected to this would loudly decry the fact, but if they stepped back, or were in a position to step back, they'd see it was so. This of course is why religions tend to make much of the 'you'll burn for doubting' type philosophies, in order to prevent their congregations from considering such objective views. If this were not the case, then there would surely be a greater geographical diversity of creeds around the globe, as people came to a particular belief instead of having it forced upon them, as evidenced by the regional differences we do see.

By way of example, it's apparent even in the signature of the Virgin Mary on one person's posts in this thread, as with a great deal of other Christian iconography, with Jesus, the Apostles, Mary etc portrayed as 'western looking', which is a little unlikely for people born in the Middle East and merely points up that it is a manufactured, or at the very least 'stage-managed' regional creed, as opposed to the truth.

None of the above proves or disproves that there is or is not a god. But one man-made religion is no more credible than any other theological belief system around the globe. And look at it this way, if you believe in something because you were told it from a young age, as was your counterpart on the other side of the globe, you can't both be right, and saying you are right and the other person is wrong, is nothing more than the blind faith born of such indoctrination or peer pressure.

Be nice to one another is the only religion you need, and you don't need whistles, bells, candles, prayer books, mats or robes to do that.

:D Chock

[Skybird]

That video and the school reaction reminded me of this recent video of Pat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2MkODdVBuU
... This is a new word: theo-democracy, which is being coined for a euphemism for what might more honstely be described as the Christian jackboot. A society ruled by christian values is what they want, not the values of Christ - no-no, the values of Christians. ... [he said] freedom requires religion... - but when you embrace religion, you give up your freedom! That's the deal! You submit. and it's why you need faith, because there is no rational reason for you to submit, so you need to talk yourself into it - that's what faith is. ... when I first heared that there actually might be a mormon president,I was a little surprised of course, but then I thought: why not!? I mean America is a very egalitarian society, so why not a mormon? Indeed why not a jehova's witness? what the hell, why not go all the way and elect a scientologist...? Anything but an atheist, because atheists are the enemies of freedom and a threat to the american way of life ... I fact I am wondering how long it's gonna be until somebody actually uses the phrase "war on atheism" becasue I think you get quite a lot of people signing up to that one in the name of religious freedom. ... I get emails from people who live in the bible belt, and who tell me they are afraid to go public as atheists, becasue they fear it would affect their family business if their neighbiurs knew that the do not believe in god. Is this the kind of religious freedom that america is so proud of? Praise the Lord, or else...!?


I care for people's beliefs as much as I care for the wall colour inside their flats - as long as they do not talk day in day out about it and want to tell everybody that he has to paint his own home like they do, it is not my problem. But when they think they must missionise others into their mental issues, and when they think they have whatever a duty to impose their beliefs onto society, and paint the whole street in the colours of their house and call that freedom and peace and whatever, they become annoying. If they became annoying, then they are a problem - not only for me, but for all who do not share their hear-say.

"Why do atheists care for religion":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg)

In the end, religion simply does not have the substance to survive it's analysis by reason. that's why religions wants to prevent independant thinking, and even abuse children to sow their mental virus into their minds so that people from childhood on will be handicapped and unable to critically examine what they have been fed with since their early days, by preventing to learn what their brain is meant for: and that is not believing, but thinking. That is classical sect-behavior to keep members in line, and depending on the group's leaders. Opus Dei demands obligatorily to uncritically follow commands by superiors without ever asking questions. It demands people obligatorily to cut private contacts and family contacts whereever possible. It demand aggressive missionizing of others.

These "qualities" speak for themselves. and they are not in favour of humanistic ethics, but supression, tyranny and mental self-mutilation.

Much proud words on what you believe in, Silentrunner. Now give the evidence, please. Or at least a theory that can even come close to the explanatory reasonable value of evolution theory. Becasue that is, what science is about: putting observations into an order that explains these observations best and with at least as little contradictions as possible. Not so religion, not so Opus Dei, not so creationism, all of this is a tour de force through the world of inner contradictions.

[STEED]

What ever the subject you should not ram it down there gullet, people can think and decide for themselves. They have not done themselves much of a favour for there actions.

[Skybird]

Recent conclusions by researchers on animal behavior have expressed for the first time, that they observe behavior patterns andhabits in apes they study that equal altruistic motives, emotions like humour and sádness, and social manners that probably are even needed and are essential for a social animal that lives in grouos that are meant to surive as a social structure. This shows that you can have what could be described as ethics and morals in animals like apes. So, morals without believing in deities and without having religions - is possible. Not to mention that atheists that see themselves nevertheless as spiritual have lauinched fewer words than any religious or political or materialistic ideology, althiugh their behavior rules are not enchanted by the blessings of some deity that demands ultimate obedience and submission, else floods the world and drowns all.

And where man has both religion and the bad habit to use violence in enforcing them and even wage wars in their names, apes do not wage wars for their social morals, and do not believ in deities. i then wonder what the link between dogmas on gods, and wars is. Only some tribes of chimps are known to systemtically hunt other apes - not to impose their morals on them, but for the profane purpose to eat them.

[Stealth Hunter]

But you are the one constantly talking about atheists being treated unfairly but when something happens to a Christian you say that everyone is treated unfairly. You are justa liberal hypocritical stubborn ass.

In today's society, they are. Atheists are losing the fight while the religious ones are winning it. If they don't conform with society then they'll face the consequences. That's the way the world works.

And the reason why I'm saying it in the Christian case is because they're typically the ones causing it. The official religion of the United States is Christianity. At least 55% of the country is made up of Christians. Now since they are typically the ones who win these battles, it seems to me it's time to step up for the weak and dismantle the strong.

Well, you're free to have your opinion, but unfortunately I don't give a damn.

[Skybird]

Unfortunatly i think its a sign of the times we live in, or rather a reaction to it. In recent years (past 10 or so), theres been a wave of religious fundamentalism on the rise. Not sure why, although one could list many reasons for it. What is distressing is how some of our rights are being interppreted these days. To many of these fundamentalists, "Freedom OF religion" does not mean "Freedom FROM Religion", which is a gross abuse of our inalieable rights in order to assert dominance upon our society.

Reasons:

People found out that unlimited consumarism doe snot necessarily make you happy.

Peopole found out that capoitalistic ideology does not answer questions that due to man's nature of being a spiritual being (=able to self-reflect and see a context greater than one own's immediate desires) pop up in man's mind necessarily: where do I come from, where do I go? why am I here, how much time do I have? What's the meaning of this cosmos. Victor frankl: a man who has a "why" to live for, will bear every "how" (translate from the German).

people found out that money cares for material needs, but does not satisfy your mind.

Rights and freedoms that has been fought for and emerged well-deseved from our history, did not stop at the blossoming of our culture, but kept on evovling, even beyond what was rteaosnbale and desribale, effecetively turning more and more into partially grotesque pervertions of their former meaning.

Materialism has sowed greed and envy, and made social climate cold. Social disbalances caused a desire to either see a meaning in them, or to change them, or both. People having stones, no hearts in their chest, are not warm.

Our genetical history drives us towards preferring (by tendency) to follow a strong alpha-animal who tells us what to do. Him or his dogma.

[Skybird]

All people tak about is non religeous people being treated badly if I was at school and during a class pulled the Rosary out of my pocket and started praying I would most likely be punished in some way. I couldn't get out of my seat and kneel to pray I have to silently pray when I feel I should. But nobody claims that I am being mistreated.
Religion should be a private issue - says me, but also: jesus. Not a public one. At home you can believe you are the highly developed form of a bicycle - I do not care and will not comment. but if you sit in the movies beside me and start to oil your skin with machinery oil, you will get something to hear from me. Your freedom ends, where you affect the freedom of others. Your responsibility begins where you affect the stcurtures of the community, and it's goings. Religion is no excuse to violate that principle. and if you would be serious about following the teachings of Jesus the socalled Christ when calling yourself a Christian, then you would not try to behave like that all by yourself. I am a fan of much of the wise things he had said, he really was a reasonably guy. That's why I am so bitterly against what you are telling me, or Escriva ( if that is his real name, since he for mysterious reasons changed his names so very often). "Non religious people", you said. I consider myself to be very religious or spritual, or however you wish to call it. but I do not believe that any gods exist, although I thunk that creation is not by random chance. I do not need any deity to be at peace with the cosmos and accept it like it is. I even go a step beyond that and say that theistic belives prevent true mystic exprience , atheism is a precondition for true and direct religious experience.

In the end, when studying other cultures and history even you have to learn and admit that there are relgions that are not theistic at all. Atheism in no way is the same like anti-religiosity.

And concerning the reasons and causes and the afterlife: what is so difficult in eventually saying "I do not know for sure"? Doesn't hurt your honour to do so.

"Keep thy religion to thyself."


Edit: Ninethousand! All drinks on me!

[Ducimus]

The core of the issue, is really simple.

Respect the beleifs of others.

Unfortunately, nobody really does, and both sides of this issue have the "im being persecuted" menatilty, in a bid to have the moral high ground over the other.

The result, is a never ending sea saw battle of Christian groups trying to assert themselves with the unfortunate result of "forcing down the gullet", and groups that oppose them simply because they are "forcing down the gullet", or feel that they are.

It's my belief that "Freedom of religion" means that every person in this nation is free to worship god in their own way. Similarly they are free to not worship god, or worship another diety altgether if they so choose. Beleifs such as these a very personal, and i think private matter that should be kept between the indvidual and their creator; and should not be put on a spotlight, in any form or context.

Unfortunatly, these private beliefs are the core makup of what makes up a person, and if you attack that belief in any form, people will react because its an attack on their core being. This is why i say, "the best way to make an enemy, is to try and change them". When someone says, "I beleive in this (insert beleif here)" what we all should strive to say is, "Thats fine", instead of interjecting their beliefs with our own.

[silentrunner]

All people tak about is non religeous people being treated badly if I was at school and during a class pulled the Rosary out of my pocket and started praying I would most likely be punished in some way. I couldn't get out of my seat and kneel to pray I have to silently pray when I feel I should. But nobody claims that I am being mistreated.
Religion should be a private issue - says me, but also: jesus. Not a public one. At home you can believe you are the highly developed form of a bicycle - I do not care and will not comment. but if you sit in the movies beside me and start to oil your skin with machinery oil, you will get something to hear from me. Your freedom ends, where you affect the freedom of others. Your responsibility begins where you affect the stcurtures of the community, and it's goings. Religion is no excuse to violate that principle. and if you would be serious about following the teachings of Jesus the socalled Christ when calling yourself a Christian, then you would not try to behave like that all by yourself. I am a fan of much of the wise things he had said, he really was a reasonably guy. That's why I am so bitterly against what you are telling me, or Escriva ( if that is his real name, since he for mysterious reasons changed his names so very often). "Non religious people", you said. I consider myself to be very religious or spritual, or however you wish to call it. but I do not believe that any gods exist, although I thunk that creation is not by random chance. I do not need any deity to be at peace with the cosmos and accept it like it is. I even go a step beyond that and say that theistic belives prevent true mystic exprience , atheism is a precondition for true and direct religious experience.

In the end, when studying other cultures and history even you have to learn and admit that there are relgions that are not theistic at all. Atheism in no way is the same like anti-religiosity.

And concerning the reasons and causes and the afterlife: what is so difficult in eventually saying "I do not know for sure"? Doesn't hurt your honour to do so.

"Keep thy religion to thyself."


Edit: Ninethousand! All drinks on me!The fact is that at certain times certain religions have to pray or practice some form of spiritual devotion. In Islam there are certain times that they must pray. In my religion at 12:00 we pray a prayer called the Angelus. I can usually do this without stirring things up, but if I am in the middle of something very important nobody would let me leave just to pray. Like you said religion is a personal matter, but in some cases people have to demonstrate religious devotion when their belief calls for it. If an atheist can choose not to participate in a prayer then I should be able to pray whenever I wish. I think what happened at that school was wrong she should not have been expelled. The point I am trying to make is that because Christianity is so large whenever it gets into a battle with a smaller religion Christianity is considered the bad guy. Yes I am veary proud of what I believe in. It makes me who I am. I am shure you are proud of what you believe in to. Humans are all different but we have one thing in common; we all believe in something. We shouuld all agree to disagree.

[August]

The core of the issue, is really simple.

Respect the beleifs of others.

Unfortunately, nobody really does, and both sides of this issue have the "im being persecuted" menatilty, in a bid to have the moral high ground over the other.

The result, is a never ending sea saw battle of Christian groups trying to assert themselves with the unfortunate result of "forcing down the gullet", and groups that oppose them simply because they are "forcing down the gullet", or feel that they are.

It's my belief that "Freedom of religion" means that every person in this nation is free to worship god in their own way. Similarly they are free to not worship god, or worship another diety altgether if they so choose. Beleifs such as these a very personal, and i think private matter that should be kept between the indvidual and their creator; and should not be put on a spotlight, in any form or context.

Unfortunatly, these private beliefs are the core makup of what makes up a person, and if you attack that belief in any form, people will react because its an attack on their core being. This is why i say, "the best way to make an enemy, is to try and change them". When someone says, "I beleive in this (insert beleif here)" what we all should strive to say is, "Thats fine", instead of interjecting their beliefs with our own.

Geez Ducimus when did you become so wise?

[fatty]

Religion should be a private issue - says me, but also: jesus. Not a public one. At home you can believe you are the highly developed form of a bicycle - I do not care and will not comment. but if you sit in the movies beside me and start to oil your skin with machinery oil, you will get something to hear from me.

I usually steer well clear of threads on religion, but I just wanted you to know to expect a medical bill due to the scotch whiskey sprayed back into my eyes from violently laughing while taking a sip and simultaneously reading this.

[Onkel Neal]

This is the kind of thread I don't feel comfortable leaving open without constant moderation. I will reopen tomorrow.

Neal