Reason for 10x attack scope in GWX2

[jimmie]

vBulletin's search function is useless aginst whole text search in a long page thread...

This must have been discussed before but I didn't know so, can someone tell me why 10x was chosen for the high power magnification in the attack scope? Is it rather because of SH3 limitaion (relating to visibility)?

Hitman's info suggests both scope had 1.5x and 6x:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=118829&page=7


Just curious to know.

[danlisa]

The 10x Scope has been included in all versions of GWX for a few reasons:

1) The need to identify all contacts by looking at their flag because all contacts are grey.
2) We're playing a game as such the visuals are not as good as the MKI Eyeball.

[jimmie]

I see. Thanks for the info:)

[Pablo]

Hi!

That was a good question! :)

Jimbuna is correct; I will just add that another reason for making the scope a bit more powerful than in real life was that the 6X scope in Silent Hunter III didn't give you anywhere near the capability to identify a ship's flag that a decent 6X set of binoculars had in real life (as tested by GWX Team members).

SH4 seems to have solved this by making using king-sized bedsheets for flags; GWX took the approach of boosting the apparent magnification to provide the same effect.

I'll add a mention of this in the manual.

Pablo

[Wolfehunter]

Hi!

SH4 seems to have solved this by making using king-sized bedsheets for flags; GWX took the approach of boosting the apparent magnification to provide the same effect.

Pablo
King size bedsheets hay....:huh: No wonder why sailers are sharing bunks.:smug:

[TheDarkWraith]

Hi!

SH4 seems to have solved this by making using king-sized bedsheets for flags; GWX took the approach of boosting the apparent magnification to provide the same effect.

Pablo
King size bedsheets hay....:huh: No wonder why sailers are sharing bunks.:smug:

That only happens on subs...:huh: ...that's why I was a surface sailor in the US Navy

[Jimbuna]

Hi!

That was a good question! :)

Jimbuna is correct; I will just add that another reason for making the scope a bit more powerful than in real life was that the 6X scope in Silent Hunter III didn't give you anywhere near the capability to identify a ship's flag that a decent 6X set of binoculars had in real life (as tested by GWX Team members).

SH4 seems to have solved this by making using king-sized bedsheets for flags; GWX took the approach of boosting the apparent magnification to provide the same effect.

I'll add a mention of this in the manual.

Pablo

Not me matey....I think you meant Dan Dan the sailor man http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd320/pasquarade/wolf-38.gif

[Storabrun]

Actually, there is no need to justify it with visuals beeing worse in a game than in real life. The scope view is shrunk to fit into the "hole" that is your periscope and the end result is something very close to a magnification of 6. To get a real magnification of 10 the magnification would need to be raised to 16-17.

I never thought about this myself until I installed OLC GUI where observation scope and binoculars fill the screen. The magnifications are left at 6 in that mod but everything appears just as big as in the 10x scope in GWX because there is no shrinking needed there.

[Bilgerat]

The only reason that i dont use the 10x mag is that i can instantly get the range of targets in the 6x mode without the use of the stadimeter.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

The only reason that i dont use the 10x mag is that i can instantly get the range of targets in the 6x mode without the use of the stadimeter.

Actually, there is no need to justify it with visuals beeing worse in a game than in real life. The scope view is shrunk to fit into the "hole" that is your periscope and the end result is something very close to a magnification of 6. To get a real magnification of 10 the magnification would need to be raised to 16-17.

I never thought about this myself until I installed OLC GUI where observation scope and binoculars fill the screen. The magnifications are left at 6 in that mod but everything appears just as big as in the 10x scope in GWX because there is no shrinking needed there.

You are missing the point guys.

The magnification levels in GWX were set to assist the player in visually identifying FLAGS/NATIONALITIES more effectively than in stock SH3. Doing so makes up for a lack of visual acuity caused by graphic limitations in SH3. The reasoning behind it is just as valid today as it was yesterday.

[ref]

The only reason that i dont use the 10x mag is that i can instantly get the range of targets in the 6x mode without the use of the stadimeter.

If you're talking about the assisted targeting mode, the game doesn't use the scope view to calculate the distance, it just reads the x and z coordinates of the ship and makes some trig.

Ref

[Bilgerat]

no i do it totaly with the marks on the left. for instance if i set the horizontal on the waterline as if you were going to use the stadimeter. but then i line the mast up with the marks on the left then count down from the top. i count each mark as 20, so if its 10 marks then 20 x the mast heigth divided by the the marks up from the horizontal line gives the range. ive dead centered ship up to 7200 yards with this. i estimate speed with the hydrophones and seem to be lucky with aob. this keeps me from having to plot multiple times and is very useful against fast ships.

[Storabrun]

You are missing the point guys.

The magnification levels in GWX were set to assist the player in visually identifying FLAGS/NATIONALITIES more effectively than in stock SH3. Doing so makes up for a lack of visual acuity caused by graphic limitations in SH3. The reasoning behind it is just as valid today as it was yesterday.

I don't think I missed that point. I just wanted to add another good reason for raising the magnification from 6 to 10. What you have done is basically to fix a bug or oversight that existed in stock. Which was that magifying something by 6 is not enough if you are going to shrink that picture later (to 60%) to fit into the hole that is our attack scope.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

You are missing the point guys.

The magnification levels in GWX were set to assist the player in visually identifying FLAGS/NATIONALITIES more effectively than in stock SH3. Doing so makes up for a lack of visual acuity caused by graphic limitations in SH3. The reasoning behind it is just as valid today as it was yesterday.

I don't think I missed that point. I just wanted to add another good reason for raising the magnification from 6 to 10. What you have done is basically to fix a bug or oversight that existed in stock. Which was that magifying something by 6 is not enough if you are going to shrink that picture later (to 60%) to fit into the hole that is our attack scope.

Ahh now I understand you. Looks like we killed two birds with one stone then.:up:

[Hitman]

no i do it totaly with the marks on the left. for instance if i set the horizontal on the waterline as if you were going to use the stadimeter. but then i line the mast up with the marks on the left then count down from the top. i count each mark as 20, so if its 10 marks then 20 x the mast heigth divided by the the marks up from the horizontal line gives the range

Yup, that's correct, as it means using the "stadia", where the stadimeter takes its name from :up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadia_rod#Stadia_rods

http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/astro/stadia.htm

http://www.fao.org/docrep/field/003/E7171E/E7171E03.htm

[jmr]

no i do it totaly with the marks on the left. for instance if i set the horizontal on the waterline as if you were going to use the stadimeter. but then i line the mast up with the marks on the left then count down from the top. i count each mark as 20, so if its 10 marks then 20 x the mast heigth divided by the the marks up from the horizontal line gives the range. ive dead centered ship up to 7200 yards with this. i estimate speed with the hydrophones and seem to be lucky with aob. this keeps me from having to plot multiple times and is very useful against fast ships.
I must be missing something so simple because I'm getting innaccurate results with this method.

For example, I spot a medium cargo with a mast height of 23.2m. At 10x magnification I count 5 ticks from the water line to the highest mast and since each mark counts as 20: 5 x 20 = 100. Then with the mast height we have 100 x 23.2 = 2320m Take 2320 and divide by number of tick marks, 5 in this case, and we get 464m but we know the target is about 1700m away.

[Storabrun]

That can't be the way to do it though. You multiply your 5 marks with 20, but in the end you divide your result with 5 so it really doesn't make any difference if you count 5 marks or 50. In other words, you will always get 464 m as the result for that mast height.

[Bilgerat]

ok from the horizontal line there are 15 marks total, i line up on a tramp steamer and and count 12 so a total of 240. multiply that by 22.7 and dived that by the 2 remaining marks under that and u get a range of 2724. if u get the aob and speed right and he dosent zig on ya hes going down. there are times when u shouldnt count a mark thats just under the tip of the mast but with practice ull get the hang of it

[Bilgerat]

Jmr for this to work just as I instructed you have to be on 6X magnification, later ill play with it and see if i can make it work for 10X, but if u try it on 6x im sure that you will be satisfied with the results. But when i get time ill try to see if i can make it work on 10X ;)

[jmr]

Ok, I see what I was doing wrong - I wasn't counting from the top and then dividing by the remaining tick marks that are found by counting up from the water line.

[Storabrun]

I don't understand why marks should be counted twice, above and below the mast. This should be a linear formula and all that matters is the apparent height of the mast (in marks) and real mast height.