A 37mm on a TypeIID??????

[KLCARROLL]

Hi!

I am a confirmed TypeIID fanatic: ....That probably calls my sanity into question, …but, ….whatever!

There is one change I would like to implement: ….I want to replace the foredeck 20mm with a single 37mm. (Not too far-fetched, ….even though it was never actually done in real life.)

I have tried and tried, …..but I have so far been unsuccessful in re-assigning that “hardpoint” from “A01” to “S01”.

Is this possible????

klcarroll

[ref]

We'll take a look, to make it work it involves some changes to the basic,cfg file, and I'm not familiar with it, when I can contact the team members with experience on it I'm sure we can work out a solution.

Ref

[Mush Martin]

I am fairly certain I did this once either a 37 or an 88 just in testing
early on IIRC I succeeded after a fashion using just cfg changes.

IIRC I did both but I think the 88mm showed up without sights
like when you mount a second deckgun.

[Madox58]

Uh Oh Mush!!!
Looks like you got competition in the Uber-ed boat field!
:up:

[KeptinCranky]

The Duck of DOOM! :up:

[Subject]

The Duck of DOOM! :up::rotfl:

Except first time he fires the 37, his boat rolls over.

[Hartmann]

very interesting modification , perhaps too big gun for a small boat, but useful in the late years.

I was looking for a 37 cm gun in the tower in my IX-C, or two.:88)

[Sailor Steve]

I think it's a bad idea for a Type II: it's just inviting suicide.:dead:

[KeptinCranky]

Suicidal? So you say, but I just took down 3 stringbags with my Duck's little 20mm single-barrel popgun, before they could bomb me I might add....did take 3 clips, If I had a rapid firing 37 I could take 'em out faster and sink more fishing boats too :88) :D

I wouldn't mind driving that prototype :up:

[Mush Martin]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/SH3Img2-2-2007_7.jpg

[Madox58]

The concept is really not so far fetched!
Haveing done some time in service I know this.
We improvised when needed.
No paper work, no records.
Who is to say this never happened?

Heck, My military records don't show half of what I did
while in service!!!
So does that mean it never happened?

[Mush Martin]

I tell you what it doesn't mean..........Tax Free:hmm:

[Madox58]

Do you guys pay taxies?
:lol:

[Madox58]

I mean TAXES!!!
:rotfl:

[Mush Martin]

Typo or no ? :hmm:


Speaking as a cab driver you should always pay your taxi

I have a question

is this flaming?

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/SH3Img3-3-2007_7-1.jpg


oh quick to edit hunh.

fine then yes we pay an average of 55% off the top if you count everything
but the gas taxes

and up here they spend it like a fourteen year old girl would.

[Madox58]

So, where did the flame thrower come from?
Don't tell me it was a compromise!

[Mush Martin]

C-o-m-p-r-o-m-i-s-e ? :|\\never heard of it.

[Pascal]

Where is the Mod "long wake". Is it compatible with GXW2 ?
Thanks

[Mush Martin]

Im not sure you would need to enquire on the gwx thread about
the compatability. I may know a few things but they are the experts
and will gladly let you know, try Jimbuna I believe he has on occasion
used longer wakes and may have already tried it on a copy of 2.0

as for where I cant quite remember
try a forum search for it and if nothings turned up
for you by the time I get home this evening I will
see if I can locate it Im sure I have an original copy
somewhere in the archives I think.

M

[Hartmann]

So, where did the flame thrower come from?
Don't tell me it was a compromise!

Very useful with boarding parties and small boats :88) .

Returning to the topic... how can i add different AA guns in my IXC boat ??

[KeptinCranky]

:rotfl:

Bwahaha Mush, if that's flaming, it's a FlammVierling....very Uber :up:

The guys on the gun below it look a tad uncomfortable though...:o

[Sailor Steve]

Suicidal? So you say, but I just took down 3 stringbags with my Duck's little 20mm single-barrel popgun, before they could bomb me I might add....did take 3 clips, If I had a rapid firing 37 I could take 'em out faster and sink more fishing boats too :88) :D

I wouldn't mind driving that prototype :up:
Real life: equiping u-flaks merely meant that u-flaks got sunk first. I said 'suicide' referring to that, not to what a faulty game lets you get away with.:sunny:

[Koondawg]

I know I wouldn't wanna be on deck shooting at a plane behind that flimsy armor on the flak guns...be good or be dead...and I have lost many a flak gunner due to enemy fire

[Water boy]

You sure thats not Bernard playing light the botty burps after finding and downing the Kaleuns stash of becks and a few cans of beans?.....
Rocket powered U boat!

[Rimfaxi]

Playing a campaign with a IID in 43 currently. In my opinion not the flak but the sonar-equipment should be replaced by something more effective.

In calm seas I can hardly hear contacts in a range of 20 km. (not speaking of my sonarguy, who sometimes first reports in a range of 8km)


But after all ..... IID ROCKS :arrgh!:

[Mush Martin]

Ok due to requests on the thread and in my pm box I will be back
as soon as possible with a basic how to post.

M

( its been a while and I should test so dont wait up ! )

[Jimbuna]

Ok due to requests on the thread and in my pm box I will be back
as soon as possible with a basic how to post.

M

( its been a while and I should test so dont wait up ! )

Oh!!............Don't worry, we won't :smug:
;)
http://www.itsnature.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfmoon.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd320/pasquarade/wolf-38.gif

[Mush Martin]

Mounted it is in this pic but connected or manned it is not. that will
take a little time and a consultation. as its a bit of a busy time of year
no eta other than a few days for a report.
M

Gentlemen I give you "the duck of doom"

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/SH3Img23-12-2007_355.jpg

Looks pretty slick actually to my eye.

[KLCARROLL]

MM;

That’s EXACTLY what I had been envisioning!!! …..Now THERE’S a “Duck” that will strike terror in the hearts of Small Merchant captains everywhere!!:up: :up: :up:

klcarroll

[Hartmann]

Wow!!

interesting replace the 88/ 105 mm gun in large boats with a 37 dual AA gun :hmm:

[Mush Martin]

ahh been there done it......:arrgh!:

then next you know its the fully automatic 88mm with a thousand round clip
( which for the record is fun as hell if a bit shortlived)

M

[gimpy117]

how about the single shot one for realism..so it's like a deck gun instead of a death cannon...

[Madox58]

Well, they no longer get destroyed at loading
and I did manage to get 1 guy to take a seat.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Duck-1.jpg

[sh3rules]

37s on a IID. What an interesting idea, I like it :)

[Mush Martin]

Well, they no longer get destroyed at loading
and I did manage to get 1 guy to take a seat.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Duck-1.jpg

Thats most encouraging
I tried swapping out the AA compartment
at the top of basic cfg to try and make
more seats in the room for the A0 mount
but no go.
its gonna have to be hexed over to an S0 type mount
to work right I think
M

[sh3rules]

I'm looking forward to the S(uper)-IID. People do this sort of thing with cars as well; look at this Honda Civic:

http://images.superstreetonline.com/techarticles/p24810_large+honda_civic+engine_view.jpg


An engine swap can also be the basis for generating even more power. This turbocharged 1.6L DOHC VTEC engine sits in a Civic.

[KLCARROLL]

I visit this thread at least twice a day out of sheer anticipation!

This thing is looking REALLy cool!:up: :up: :up:

It will, however, drive the "Historical Accuracy" people nuts!!:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

klcarroll

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I visit this thread at least twice a day out of sheer anticipation!

This thing is looking REALLy cool!:up: :up: :up:

It will, however, drive the "Historical Accuracy" people nuts!!:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

klcarroll

LOL, yes it does! :rotfl: :stare: :lol:

[Jimbuna]

I visit this thread at least twice a day out of sheer anticipation!

This thing is looking REALLy cool!:up: :up: :up:

It will, however, drive the "Historical Accuracy" people nuts!!:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

klcarroll

It certainly aint affected me....I've always looked like this http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/crazy.gif

Seriously though....you play it the way you prefer http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Madox58]

@KLCARROLL

I'm new to the sub config stuff so it's a bit slow going.
However, nodes on the Turm and Hull must be changed to S0
nodes from A0 nodes and the basic.cfg A0 nodes changed also.
I haven't figured out why yet.
Other files need changed to show a proper damage screen,
and the problem of manning them and activateing them
is still there.
When I move men to them, they don't show at the guns and I can't
go to them myself yet.
When I move the men off the guns, they "Philadelphia" on me
and vanish!!
Leave the damage screen and come back to it and they're back!!!
Most interesting problems.

[KLCARROLL]

@KLCARROLL

I'm new to the sub config stuff so it's a bit slow going.
However, nodes on the Turm and Hull must be changed to S0
nodes from A0 nodes and the basic.cfg A0 nodes changed also.
I haven't figured out why yet.
Other files need changed to show a proper damage screen,
and the problem of manning them and activateing them
is still there.
When I move men to them, they don't show at the guns and I can't
go to them myself yet.
When I move the men off the guns, they "Philadelphia" on me
and vanish!!
Leave the damage screen and come back to it and they're back!!!
Most interesting problems.


Yeah, .....I figured out that the "hardpoint" needed to be re-assigned from "A01" to "S01", but I didn't have the experience in Hex Editing necessay to figure it out.

......That is what caused me to post my original question.

The additional problems with crew assignment and damage modeling hadn't even occured to me until they were mentioned in this thread.

My desire to learn how all these things get accomplished is now as strong as my original desire for the modified boat!

This whole thing has been a real learning experience!

klcarroll

[Mush Martin]

What I am not understanding is the difficulty your having with the
configs, everything else is harder by far.


Behold the humble duck that creature most underated and overreacted
to by man.
yes this humble foul is a curious creature for what other bird or beast
in nature operates on land in the air on the sea and under it with globe
circling navigation and the ability to sustain journeys measured in multiple
thousands of miles. A creature so tough it eats rocks
that it hunts out from among the toxic sludge at the bottom of rivers
such stuff as would wipe out the frogs. the duck is curious socially too. unlike almost all
other creatures the duck knows limited protection for while we will put
limits on killing tigers elephants and dolphins for the preservation of species
the ducks limited cull is too sustain the ability to do combat against them
into the future, indeed no we dont go out every autumn with a vast array
of hand portable anti aircraft weapons to shoot red McCaw's no tis only
the humble duck who know's this fate.

may'haps its because deep in the human psyche we find ducks can
be very intimidating :rotfl:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/ScreenHunter_004.jpg

[Mush Martin]

My desire to learn how all these things get accomplished is now as strong as my original desire for the modified boat!

This whole thing has been a real learning experience!

klcarroll


I remember that moment...........:|\\

its a whole new world, much more fun than just playing.:up:

[Madox58]

placeing a VISUAL weapon on deck is one thing.
Getting proper control, and interacting with same?
Whole new ball game.
Or being that your from THAT country.
A whole new Hockey game.
:rotfl:

[Mush Martin]

well its the only combat we get most years:shifty:

[Madox58]

Well,
What if you put a River in a Hockey game?
THAT would get me to buy Pay Per View!!!
:rotfl:

[Mush Martin]

I always thought tyson should have been drafted by the Flyers.:doh:

[KeptinCranky]

Bwahaahaa! :rotfl:

I want to see that turret going off and that duck doing backflips all the way to the moon :rock:

ROFL

[Madox58]

Problem was,
he couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.
Never mind skates!!!!!

[sh3rules]

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/ScreenHunter_004.jpg


:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

[Captain von Keldunk]

This is what happens if you give a U-boat a new toy.:D:D
Crew has no idea what to do with it ??:rotfl::rotfl::arrgh!::damn:

http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/22671f80ce/1084713.jpg
But the gun looks so COOL COOOOOL :up::up::up:

[KLCARROLL]

But the gun looks so COOL COOOOOL

I agree wholeheartedly!!!

Your configuration with a single 37mm on the foredeck, and a 20mm twin on the Wintergarten looks so BELIEVABLE!!! If that setup had been offered in the original game, I don't think that one person out of 100 would have realized it wasn't a real option! (At least not right away!) It just looks RIGHT!

The solid, practical look of this mod raises the interesting question; “In Real Life, why wasn’t it done??”

Being a Mechanical Engineer, my first thought was that there must have been a significant difference in weight, or the amount of stress applied to the hull; .....But neither criteria seems to offer a conclusive “why not”.

A C38 20mm Twin on a pedestal mount weighs approximately 1200 pounds (544kg) and a M42 37mm Single on a pedestal mount weighs approximately 1500 pounds (680kg). Knowing how “German Engineering” tends to be, I can’t believe that a 136kg difference would be a “deal breaker”.

There is a significant difference in recoil between the two rounds, but even this doesn’t offer a clear explanation for not mounting a 37mm.

The 37mm fires a AP projectile that weighs 1.54 pounds (.69kg) with a muzzle velocity of 2674 fps (815 mps)

The 20mm fires an AP projectile that weighs .326 pounds (.148kg) with a muzzle velocity of 2625 fps (800 mps)

As you can see, the velocity of the two rounds is virtually identical, so the difference in recoil impulse is going to come from the weight difference alone. This means that each recoil impulse of the 37mm is going to be 4.6 times larger than impulse created by the 20mm.

But there is more to consider! The C38 20mm twin has a practical rate of fire of 440 rounds per minute, whereas the M42 37mm has a rate of fire of 250 rounds per minute. This means that in terms of kilogram/meters per minute, the 37mm is actually only delivering three times the “thrust” of the 20mm installation. This sort of increase can be addressed by localized bracing and reinforcement.

In the U.S. Military, “Non-standard Field Modifications” are almost a tradition. Was the German doctrine at the time specifically opposed to such things???

klcarroll

[looney]

I'm a mechanical engineer also. And I don't think it has anything to with the added weight. More likely it has to do with Airpower. When they used the 2B russian airpower was to strong I think. and for the rest it was a trainer no real front boat

[KLCARROLL]

I'm a mechanical engineer also. And I don't think it has anything to with the added weight. More likely it has to do with Airpower. When they used the 2B russian airpower was to strong I think. and for the rest it was a trainer no real front boat

I am sure you're correct: .....From the "Official" point of view.

I'm just puzzled by the fact that no such "Unofficial Field Modification" ever occurred: .......Particularly when you note that several of the Black Sea TypeIIBs were fitted with rocket launchers, which were actually used to cover the German withdrawl from the area!

To me, Rocket Launchers seem much more "far-fetched" than a single 37mm: ....And yet they did that!



@Kpt. Lehmann;

Don't worry! .......I am not even considering asking for Rocket Launchers! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

klcarroll

[sh3rules]

I'm looking forward to this mod. It must be awesome to have a 37mm available.

[panzer 49th]

What I am not understanding is the difficulty your having with the
configs, everything else is harder by far.


Behold the humble duck that creature most underated and overreacted
to by man.
yes this humble foul is a curious creature for what other bird or beast
in nature operates on land in the air on the sea and under it with globe
circling navigation and the ability to sustain journeys measured in multiple
thousands of miles. A creature so tough it eats rocks
that it hunts out from among the toxic sludge at the bottom of rivers
such stuff as would wipe out the frogs. the duck is curious socially too. unlike almost all
other creatures the duck knows limited protection for while we will put
limits on killing tigers elephants and dolphins for the preservation of species
the ducks limited cull is too sustain the ability to do combat against them
into the future, indeed no we dont go out every autumn with a vast array
of hand portable anti aircraft weapons to shoot red McCaw's no tis only
the humble duck who know's this fate.

may'haps its because deep in the human psyche we find ducks can
be very intimidating :rotfl:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e368/MartinPicfix/ScreenHunter_004.jpg

I want this for my u-boat it could help me with those dam destroyers:smug:

[looney]

I'm a mechanical engineer also. And I don't think it has anything to with the added weight. More likely it has to do with Airpower. When they used the 2B russian airpower was to strong I think. and for the rest it was a trainer no real front boat
I am sure you're correct: .....From the "Official" point of view.

I'm just puzzled by the fact that no such "Unofficial Field Modification" ever occurred: .......Particularly when you note that several of the Black Sea TypeIIBs were fitted with rocket launchers, which were actually used to cover the German withdrawl from the area!

To me, Rocket Launchers seem much more "far-fetched" than a single 37mm: ....And yet they did that!



@Kpt. Lehmann;

Don't worry! .......I am not even considering asking for Rocket Launchers! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

klcarroll

The rockets look to me that those are in a sense modified "nebelwerfers" the 1st ground to ground missile (Rocket propelled bombs). The russian Stalin organs (katyusha) where their counter part on the Russian front. But the nebelwerfer where far more precise. And where later war mounted on almost evrything that moved, mainly the Halftracks. So it seems kinda logical to mount them also on Subs.

The 37mm AA gun wasn't a good ground attack weapon, even the PAK 37 (anti-tank gun) wasn't that good. It couldn't penetrate any armor after early war and most German infantery Platoons "lost" their piece and used Panzer-schreck and the Panzer-Faust.

In short it makes no sense to put a 37mm slow firing gun on a small unstable platform.

Remember this is a game so shooting down planes is a lot easier ingame :)

[Ramcourse]

The rockets look to me that those are in a sense modified "nebelwerfers" the 1st ground to ground missile (Rocket propelled bombs). The russian Stalin organs (katyusha) where their counter part on the Russian front. But the nebelwerfer where far more precise. And where later war mounted on almost evrything that moved, mainly the Halftracks. So it seems kinda logical to mount them also on Subs.
The rockets mounted on the subs were 21cm rockets (also used, indeed, by some Nebelwerfers). They were by no means the first ground-to-ground rockets, those had been popular for a more than a century before, and the Katyusha was developed parallel to the Nebelwerfer, rather than in answer to it. Both the Nebelwerfer and Katyusha were psychologically effective, even though standard artillery was more efficient pound for pound. The whole barrage came down before the infantry could take cover, which instilled them with a sense of helplessness.
The 37mm AA gun wasn't a good ground attack weapon, even the PAK 37 (anti-tank gun) wasn't that good. It couldn't penetrate any armor after early war and most German infantery Platoons "lost" their piece and used Panzer-schreck and the Panzer-Faust.The 3,7 was adequate in the beginning of the war for harassment, but it was discontinued as obsolete very early on. The gun was not very useful as anti-tank weapon or anti-infantry, but the 3,7 was quite able to put holes in ships. Most important, it was the smallest calibre that could consistently put a plane hors de combat with one hit. Still, first you need to hit anything, and from a rolling duck it would be hard to do.

Remember this is a game so shooting down planes is a lot easier ingame :)I don't know. Planes were historically very bad shots, and during parts of the war there were an order of magnitude more planes lost to U-boote than the other way around.

[sh3rules]

I don't know. Planes were historically very bad shots, and during parts of the war there were an order of magnitude more planes lost to U-boote than the other way around.

There you go. Therefore, we need this mod! :ping:

[KLCARROLL]

@Looney;

Your points are well taken, ....but I think you're misunderstanding what my primary motivation is in searching for this mod.

I enjoy campaigning a TypeIID for two main reasons:

1) It's a handy, quick diving, and quick turning little boat that is really ideally suited to Coastal Work.

2) It's limitations make it a real challenge to rack up "tonnage".

With only five torpedoes on board, you find yourself picking your targets very carefully; .....Which means that you frequently let smaller vessels go by without taking action.

The 20mm guns can be used to deal with the occasional 500 ton trawler or 1000 ton tug, .....but it simply isn't possible to reliably sink 2000 ton small merchants with 20mm fire. (At least not with the stock 20mm values: ....Which is a whole 'nother issue!)

This is where even a very modest deck gun like a single 37mm would make a remarkable difference: ......If you had such a gun mounted, you could realistically expect to sink five or six small merchants per patrol without investing one of your precious torpedoes! That could easily make the difference between a 15,000 ton patrol and a 30,000 ton patrol!

THAT would be my intended use for a 37mm. I rarely engage aircraft, and if I had a 37mm, I don't think I would even include AA ammunition in my load-out.

The research I have done shows that in "real life" the substitution of a single 37mm for the foredeck 20mm twin would be very "do-able". The weights of the guns and mounts are similar, and the "hardpoint" could be easily reinforced to deal with the modest increase in recoil.

If I commanded a TypeIID in real life, and the dockyard refused my request for a 37mm substitution, my crew would be under standing orders to look for every opportunity to steal one!:yep: :yep:

klcarroll

[looney]

And now we back to the game we see way to many ships around... RL you should be glad to find enuf ships to put torps in.

[KLCARROLL]

And now we back to the game we see way to many ships around... RL you should be glad to find enuf ships to put torps in.


Hmmmm.........

Well, .....If that argument is valid, and we accept that targets are in such short supply; ........then I guess we have to consider all of the larger, more heavily armed U-Boat Types to be superfluous; .....Don't we???

klcarroll

[Sailor Steve]

Actually a large number of u-boats never did sink, or even see, a single enemy ship.

[KLCARROLL]

Actually a large number of u-boats never did sink, or even see, a single enemy ship.

This is statistically correct for the whole war, but mainly applies to the difficult "late war" period; ......where very "green" crews were sent out in new boats, against the best ASW forces ever known.

In the early war "Happy Time", the situation was considerably different.

The accuracy of your statement does, however, make one wonder if Germany wouldn’t have been better served with a fleet of smaller, more efficient boats, rather than building the larger TypeIX boats, in the hope of carrying the war to very distant waters.

It is an acknowledged fact that the cost of a WWII submarine tended to be directly proportional to it’s size, and larger boats have larger crew requirements.

……But regardless: We are talking about a game here; …..And I want a 37mm deck gun.

klcarroll

[sh3rules]

If I commanded a TypeIID in real life, and the dockyard refused my request for a 37mm substitution, my crew would be under standing orders to look for every opportunity to steal one!:yep: :yep:


LOL I agree.

[Sailor Steve]

A good scrounger is essential to any operation. That said, we never steal anything.

Liberate, appropriate, filch, produce and "inherit", yes, but never, ever "steal".:up:

[KLCARROLL]

A good scrounger is essential to any operation. That said, we never steal anything.

Liberate, appropriate, filch, produce and "inherit", yes, but never, ever "steal".:up:


:up: :up: :up: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


klcarroll

[KLCARROLL]

I don't mean to be a pain, ...but I have been wondering if anyone has any new thoughts on the "do-ability" of this mod?

klcarroll

[TheDarkWraith]

I don't mean to be a pain, ...but I have been wondering if anyone has any new thoughts on the "do-ability" of this mod?

klcarroll

Thinking outloud here.....why don't you edit the sub's .eqp file and give it one? :hmm: Granted I haven't tried it yet but it should work.

[bigboywooly]

I don't mean to be a pain, ...but I have been wondering if anyone has any new thoughts on the "do-ability" of this mod?

klcarroll

Thinking outloud here.....why don't you edit the sub's .eqp file and give it one? :hmm: Granted I haven't tried it yet but it should work.

Nope
A 37mm wont go on a A0 mount
Even hexing the mount to an S0 doesnt work properly

So many things are inter related esp to do with the upgrade screen
TBH not sure where anyone is on at the mo

[Madox58]

I'm still working with it.
There is alot more to do then first meets the eye!!
I could do a cheater work around, but.........
Naaa.
If you can't figure it out, then you don't understand how it works!!!
Figureing out how it all works is the key to SO much more!
:yep:

[sh3rules]

A IID with a 37mm could take you a long way later in the war.

[gimpy117]

A IID with a 37mm could take you a long way later in the war.

well kinnda...it's sortta slow and has like 5 torpedos

[sh3rules]

It's small, you can sneak your way in, and are not so easily detected. I can't recall a time when I was able to sneak in a IXD2. The XXI... that's a different story :ping:

[gimpy117]

yes, that's what i like about my IID... I got jumped by 2 destroyers and a crusier in the black sea in 1942, went to max depth and dissipeared fropm their scopes, no fancy knuckles or anything...just gone.

but. i don't like my IID because of it's deck gun and speed it's slow and i can't gun anybody

on that matter, could we give the 20mm HE rounds? it might make it more effective aginst ships. Ive seen the 30mm bushmaster with HE rounds go through a concrete wall and blow serving platter sized holes in them. so i bet a 20mm could do simmilar damage (maybe like a dinner plate). so wouldn't this sink a ship with 200 or so of these holes.

[KLCARROLL]

Sh3rules is right!

You can do “stealthy” things in a TypeIID that would be very difficult in a larger boat.

Several times, I have avoided detection in as little as 30 meters of water by “bottoming the boat" right next to a recent wreck: …..A thing that would be tough to do in a TypeIX!

The TypeII boats also require different tactics than those normally used with the larger boats.

In a TypeIID, you don’t cruise around looking for targets: …You locate a “chokepoint” and quietly lurk there, ….waiting for the prey to come to you! (Very similar to the way modern Diesel Boats are typically deployed.)

Yes, …five torpedoes is a limitation: …Which is why even a modest deck gun would be welcome. It would give you the option of not wasting one of your precious torpedoes on “small fry”.


klcarroll

[Jimbuna]

Sh3rules is right!

You can do “stealthy” things in a TypeIID that would be very difficult in a larger boat.

Several times, I have avoided detection in as little as 30 meters of water by “bottoming the boat" right next to a recent wreck: …..A thing that would be tough to do in a TypeIX!



Be very careful Kaleun.....this is not 'normally' possible in-game. The escorts will still detect you....similarly so when your submerged directly beneath a merchant you have disabled/brought to a stop. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[gimpy117]

Sh3rules is right!

You can do “stealthy” things in a TypeIID that would be very difficult in a larger boat.

Several times, I have avoided detection in as little as 30 meters of water by “bottoming the boat" right next to a recent wreck: …..A thing that would be tough to do in a TypeIX!


Be very careful Kaleun.....this is not 'normally' possible in-game. The escorts will still detect you....similarly so when your submerged directly beneath a merchant you have disabled/brought to a stop. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

actually, i sat under a disabled merchat for hours waiting out an attack, they counlt hit me so they gave up.

[bigboywooly]

Lucky you
I sat under a crippled tanker once
The escorts ended up DCing the tanker into oblivion then had a go at me
I got away but they got the tanker renown
:rotfl:

[Jimbuna]

Lucky you
I sat under a crippled tanker once
The escorts ended up DCing the tanker into oblivion then had a go at me
I got away but they got the tanker renown
:rotfl:

Preciely :lol:

[gimpy117]

maybe my destroyers didn't wanna blow up their countrymen...

[Sailor Steve]

On the other hand, how easy would it be to 'park' right next to a wreck or stay directly under a merchant without the external view?

[Jimbuna]

On the other hand, how easy would it be to 'park' right next to a wreck or stay directly under a merchant without the external view?

That is so true....the games AI doesn't make any allowances for terrain in any event. Try passing one side of a small island and you'll still pick up any escorts on the other side with your sensors (if they're there of course) http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[sh3rules]

I'm always amused by the destroyers. When there's an island in their way, instead of pulling back they just stay there, deciding what to do... before attempting to go *through* the island :damn:

[Jimbuna]

Tis the same with harbours also.....you can sometimes see them rendering half way through a jetty or pier wall.
All about losing their waypoints. :damn:

[Deathfrombelow23]

Is it possible to either: 1) add the 37mm to the IID or 2) to increase the power of the 20mm's rounds for use against surface ships. Has anyone figured out how to do or make either one work? It seems difficult, but not impossible to mod the files so the IID can accept a heavy flak mount. I can do it, but I would need someone to explain to me where to go and what to change in that file. Thanks!

[KLCARROLL]

Changing the 20mm values in the SHELLS.ZON file is easily done with the SH3 MINI TWEAKER. You can make a 20mm hit like an "88" if you want! (Assuming Historical Accuracy is not high on your list of priorities.:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: )

klcarroll

[Koondawg]

SHELLS.ZON[/B] file is easily done with the SH3 MINI TWEAKER. You can make a 20mm hit like an "88" if you want! (Assuming Historical Accuracy is not high on your list of priorities]
Yes but that works for both sides doesn't it...you cant just mod one side...now your enemy has the firepower as well

[KLCARROLL]

Yes but that works for both sides doesn't it...you cant just mod one side...now your enemy has the firepower as well

Very true! ......And this aspect has been discussed previously in this thread.

The "symmetry" of the change is probably the one factor that makes most people avoid "excessive" tweaks to shell values.

klcarroll

[KLCARROLL]

@privateer;

I have been giving some thought to the "37mm Swap" project, ....and a question has come to mind:

Would it be easier to redefine the model for a single 37mm as an "A0 gun" as opposed to it's original "S0" designation??

The only drawback I can think of is that the game would only assign one crewman to the gun: ......but for many people, that might not be a big deal. (Myself included, because at least 50% of the reason I want the mod is for screenshots.)

Klcarroll

[Captain von Keldunk]

ONE problem remains, how to get 37mm AMMO loaded for type IID??
When you change A0 to S0 on IID hull you can change GUN but not AMMO.
Crew is no problem you only need to change Basic cfg like this.
A01_00=7
S01_00=4
S02_00=4 ; here you add extra 37mm gun, it will add more crew places in crew menu
for aa gun crews. starting from left, put gunner in first place, leave second place empty, third and fourth place add gunners. You must manually place gunners.
IF YOU CHANGE GUN NODE, HOW TO GHANGE AMMO ALSO??:hmm::hmm:
37MM gun works at least manually ok for IID2 but AMMO :damn: A:damn:M:damn:M:damn:O:cry::cry:

[KLCARROLL]

So, .......Is it the general consensus that getting a 37mm onto a TypeIID just isn't do-able???? :cry:

klcarroll

[Brophmeister]

By the same token I wouldn't mind an 88 or 105mm on my XXI....

[sh3rules]

By the same token I wouldn't mind an 88 or 105mm on my XXI....

Taking on a destroyer with the deck gun in 44 :o

To each his own :up:

[Jimbuna]

By the same token I wouldn't mind an 88 or 105mm on my XXI....

Taking on a destroyer with the deck gun in 44 :o

To each his own :up:

Amen http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9425/praydl5rp5.gif

:lol:

[Madox58]

I think all of us gets bogged down from time to time
and sets things aside.
Until some Lunatic like Mikhayl comes along and creates
a WHOLE NEW boat to rock!
:rock:
:rotfl:

[gord96]

WoW. Great thread!!

I love the type II/D as well!

Great great little boat. I use it in the channel and Irish Sea all the time. I hope this 37mm gun is doable. That would be alot of fun :arrgh!:

[KLCARROLL]

Mikhayl;

Thank you very much for posting that information!

You also said;


I guess you already changed the A01 node in nss_uboat2d.dat to a S01 node, also removed the A01 entries in the .eqp and added some S01 guns.



Well, ....as Privateer knows all too well, ...I'm a TOTAL noob on the subject of Hex editing: Is it possible to get a "walk through" on how to do those two steps?? (Privateer suggested I use "XVI32".)

klcarroll

[Madox58]

S3D will be much easier as no hex editing needed.

[KLCARROLL]

GREAT!!!

Thanks for all the help!!

klcarroll

[KLCARROLL]

OK!!!! ....This is really cool!!!

I followed the directions, and now there is actually a 37mm Single sitting on my foredeck!!!

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q84/klcarroll/37MM_DUCK.jpg


But, ....I have apparently done something wrong, as I get this screen when go to "crew management". (Note the lack of a submarine hull, and the "Destroyed" message concerning "Flak 2".)


http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q84/klcarroll/37MM_DUCK_ERROR.jpg


When I manually selected the guns, I found that the Wintergarten 20mm was functional, but when I attempted to fire the 37mm manually, I got a message that said something to the effect of; "Not enough crew to service this Flak."

Anybody have any thoughts??

klcarroll

[KLCARROLL]

I made the indicated changes, and started a career with the /1 conning tower; ....but things remain unresolved.

My damage screen is still missing the hull of the submarine, .....BUT the "Destroyed" message relating to Flak Gun 2 is gone, and the 37mm now appears on the upgrade page (although on the Aft Deck, as you indicated.)

When I attempt to fire the 37mm, I am still getting the "Not enough Crew...." message, even though I transfered two officers to flak duty.

I'm really sorry to be such a pain!

klcarroll

[KLCARROLL]

I was thinking that maybe it was the "A02" node descriptor for the Wintergarten 20mm that was causing the problem: .........So I used S3D to go into "Turm2D_2_hd.dat" to change the node on the Conning Tower from "A02" to "A01".

I then went through all the other files listed by Mikhayl and made the corresponding adjustments.

When I started a new career, the 37mm was where it belonged, and the 20mm was in it's proper spot. Furthermore, the "Destroyed" message concerning Flak 2 had disappeared! .......But, unfortunately, so had all my 20mm ammo! :damn: :damn: :damn:

....And I still can't get enough crew to allow the 37mm to operate.

This problem is more heartless than my ex-wife!

klcarroll