New release of TMaru in the works (and other misc errata)

[Ducimus]

In short there is a patch 1.4 compatiablity issue that must be resolved. The biggest problem is that the patch has changed stuff in the code, without ever having touched the files that modders typically work with. So, the hard lesson here, is that just because the file was untouched by the patch - doesnt mean that it will work correctly!

In particular, ROW, and im starting to suspect the AI as well.

When i released TM 1.7 (and subsequently patched to 1.7.1), i included select elements of ROW that i though would have the greatest effect, for little impact on the file structure. Smoke, fire, particles, a few textures, and the row/LBO derived scene.dat. My motivation in including THAT file, was i heard the "sub on rails" effect was still in the game. I guess i should have taken the time to confirm that. My primary motivation to include bits of ROW was to lessen the motivation to run other mods with Tmaru for the time being. It was my hopes to nail down specific issues with the mod itself. Unfortunatly, one can't really predict what users will do, and like modders, they assumed that if there was no file changes, (or if they run it and nothing happends right away), it must be ok. Unfortunatly that isn't quite the case in this patch.

Anyway, due to alot of the issues posted on the forums, and having dwelled on it for the last couple days, i see I have two options. Put out another patch, or give Tmaru a "root canal" for want of a better term. Considering that i want to give Leovampire as much breathing space as he needs for his 1.4 version of ROW, i have opted to give Tmaru that Root canal.

The changes thus far are this:

// removed all ROW elements.
// added DC drop splash warning by Nvdrifter
// added Gato dial fix for patch 1.4 by Anvart
// fixed erronous entry in narwhal upc file.
// E key remapped to "Cycle AFt tubes". Emergecy surface now ordersbar access only.
// slighly increased "walk speed" of external free cam. Slighly decreased "run speed" of the same.
// increased hitpoints of engine room.


In addition im still testing a new torpedo file which will increase failure rates (hopefully not by an insane percentage), as well as re examining depth charge settings. I feel they need to be made a little more "tighter" in accuracy, and a little more "looser" in damage radius. The AI, post patch, seems far off the mark. Proof of that is in Bungo pete, hes not the accurate monster he once was - much to my disappointment.


I plan on posting this new version, either LATE tonight, or sometime tommrrow morning, concievalby even tommrrow night. Im still testing DC settings and torpedo settings.


Along with this release, i will be release a small compilation of ROW elements. It is selective, and small. If you run into any graphical weirdness, disable this modlet and don't run it with TMaru anymore. This modlet is seperate from Tmaru, and i suspect once Leovampire gets his ball rolling, it will no longer be desired.

Until such time, i cannot stress enough, to NOT RUN ANY ROW MODS FROM SH4 VERSION 1.3 UNTIL LEOVAMPIRE HAS EXAMINED THEM ALL. My mistake in what elements i did include in TMaru 1.7, is a hard lesson, and im not even sure if wierd occurances are my fault in this regard or not, but in any event, i apologize for my mistake in this matter.

[capt_frank]

Heaven's Tamergatroid! No apology needed...thanks for all your time and efforts! Looking forward to your next release...:up:

[Peto]

Heaven's Tamergatroid! No apology needed...thanks for all your time and efforts! Looking forward to your next release...:up:

Yep. If you have to apologize for all you do, where does that leave those who just count on you to do it? Take your time and do it Your way! I doubt anyone will leave if you can't make your (IMO aggressive) deadline.

If anyone wants to complain about what you've done, they can do it themsleves :hmm:!

Cheers!

:up:

[AVGWarhawk]

Duci,

When you are ready, let me know if you want to sticky a completely new thread and allow the other to slowly fad. Perhaps you just want to update the current one? If you want me to sticky this now I will do it. Many enjoy your work and it deserves a spot at the top:up:

[DedEye]

Many enjoy your work and it deserves a spot at the top:up:

Playing 1.4 naked really makes a fella realize how much TM adds to the sim. Enabling mods one by one really makes a fella realize how much work it is.

Many thanks for your work Ducimus since "Flavoured to Taste". It has really enhanced, maybe even saved, my enjoyment of this sim. :ping:

[silent killer]

:D ducimus i dont think that tm 1.7 was any way at fault for some of the strange things that happen in the game . i think most of the faults lay with us not following the instructions as per mod or installing mods over patches that are not compatible keep up the good work.

[longam]

And of course the Mirror Site will be on standby for the download traffic.

[claybirdd]

Yea a new version. I get to go through and delete a hundred shp.dds files.:shifty: No really keepup the good work, all is greatly appreciated. I did'nt even attempt sock 1.4 as it is a blasphmy to subsims without T.M.'s flair. Thanks again. BTW hows the new place?

[Ducimus]

My "todo" list is short.

I was going to add an AP value to depth charges, but i think that any change in AI should be gradual - not large or drastic. So i think im going to change the max radius of them from 14.5 to 15, the depth accuracy from 17 to 10 (thats acutaly a big jump), and maybe the explosion radius from 50 to 55 (makes the boat shake, does no damage), and forgo the AP damage for now.

Torpedo sim file......
I think im going to reduce the circular runner chance for late war back to its default 0.5 chance. I think i changed both to a 1% chance. Overall its not as drastic as the hardcore torpedo mod - so i think im going to let it ride.

On another note CapnScurvy has been in touch with me and would like to see his mod included in TM.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=126016

I havent looked at it yet, (anyone have?) but what he's put forth information wise on it sounds good, and he sounds like hes put quite alot of effort into getting it right. unlike me who forces aggressive deadlines upon myself :yep: *shrug* i just want to kick it in the jimmy and get er done. I think the main reason is the time im willing to spend on all this is becoming increasingly less, so the self imposed deadline becomes more aggressive.

[Ducimus]

>>BTW hows the new place?


My commute is all of 5 to 8 minutes. The dining room is now the office (we eat off TV trays anyway), so my accessability to Sh4 whilst cooking dinner or watching TV has greatly improved. :rotfl:

[claybirdd]

LOL, good to hear. :up:

[tater]

14.5 to 15m will do nothing at all that you will notice. The distance from MinRadius to MaxRadius will then be 10.5 instead of 10. You have the armor at 20 now, so the damage cutoff is 80. 9.5m will be the damage cutoff assuming the DC goes off with MinEF, vs ~9.2m in stock (with the 20 armor value). Up it to 20 if you want the range increase of damage to be in the area of a couple meters instead of 30cm.

[Ducimus]

:hmm:

I think its patently obvious i never looked into the mathmatics of that decision. :rotfl:


I could up the AP though, im just afraid of some long term effects that im not seeing. I was testing with a value of 20 or 25 (forget which) but i liked what i saw. One nearby explosion (not that close, but close enough) took 8% off the hull, and 60% off a bulkhead. Managable, and surviveable. I even got it reparied and the water pumped out. Next one though...... i think brought it down to 50% and a couple bulksheads smashed. Had to bring the boat up to 120 feet. Somewhere there abouts i exited the test run. lol.

[Ducimus]

Tater, after reviewing some of your older posts, (youve obviously put alot of time into this), i think im going to have test with a max radius of 20, and compare that with a max radius of 15 with an AP of 20. Although the safest bet is probably to just increase the max radius to split the difference and increase the max radius to 18 or so.

DD's are seeminly alot less accurate, so i probably need to get out of the mindset of a small max radius. Thats what brought that small max radius mentality on- dealing with accurate DD's.

[Peto]

I just finished a long testing session. It appears that the escorts now try to "guesstimate" where you went. It looks like they figure on 2 knots and for the next couple drops work a radius from where they last had you. Less accurate unless they guess right ;).

The bonus of working just one very small aspect of the sim has been seeing new behaviors. I would almost bet money (in very small denominations) that there has been some AI code change and probably some with sensors too.

After a light snack I'll test some more...

[tater]

Interesting. I was running kinda fast (5 knots) hoping they would hear me (I was trying to get DCed). As a result, I found them firing the throwers early, and the roll racks late, lol.

BTW, when I said armor of 20, I meant the fact you reduced the sub armor to 20. So far, I've avoided adding AP to DCs, partially because if I armor the diesels, I want to be able to make them impossible to destroy except with a weapon with AP.

If I get it to work, it will seriously mitigate a career ender that shouldn't exist.

tater

[Ducimus]

Im debating if ill post this tommrrow, let alone tonight.

I can't test Depth charges, BECAUSE THE AI IS CONSTANTLY OFF THE MARK!

Ive been experimenting with STOCK depth charges, and with the same AI settings ive always used. Its as if they no longer drop ON your position, but NEAR your position - rather consistnatly i might add.

Maybe this is a bold statement, but pre patch 1.4, with the AI settings i was using, a stock depth charge would have been tantamount to murder. Right now, all ive been doing, is going down to 300 feet, and creeping along at 1 kt, no manuevering at all, and they're always off. Stock depthcharges? Hell right now i question the need to mod DC's at all. Whats more disgusting to me, is i even turned a round and went BACK to the minkaze and subchaser i placed in this test mission, because i had already broken contact, and all i did was go down to 300 feet, below a layer, and creep along at 1 kt.

ZZZZzzzzZZZzzzz.

This is unacceptable to me. But at the same time, its really hard to gauge, they acutally sunk me once. Lucky drop i guess. But with the settings ive been using with stock depth charges, i should be sweating bulllets and im not.


The AI i think needs a little more, subtle coaxing i think.

BTW, tater, you got that Kaiboken laying around somewhere? I dont think i ever put that puppy in.. I think its time i did.

edit: NM Tater, i found it.

[hyperion2206]

I suppose that CapnScurvy's mod is not compatible with FooBar's new recognition manual?:-?

[Ducimus]

I don't know yet, i got wrapped up in AI issues, so i havent gotten to the captains mod yet.

I will though, it looks like a must have.

As for foobars new rec manual, i havent looked at it yet either.

To be honest, i dont examine every mod that ever gets posted. Tmaru is getting big.. and its becoming too much for one person to handle. So when an element within it is done - i usually don't go back and look at that element again unless theres a compatiblity issue.

[Peto]

Maybe this is a bold statement, but pre patch 1.4, with the AI settings i was using, a stock depth charge would have been tantamount to murder. Right now, all ive been doing, is going down to 300 feet, and creeping along at 1 kt, no manuevering at all, and they're always off. Stock depthcharges? Hell right now i question the need to mod DC's at all. Whats more disgusting to me, is i even turned a round and went BACK to the minkaze and subchaser i placed in this test mission, because i had already broken contact, and all i did was go down to 300 feet, below a layer, and creep along at 1 kt.

The AI i think needs a little more, subtle coaxing i think.



The more I work with the AI since 1.4 the more I think things were changed. It's harder to find a balance now but I think it's still there. TTT for Tweak, Test, Tweak.

[Ducimus]

Im think im close with the settings i posted in your thread. Close... very close, leaning on, maybe too hard? Not sure. If i am close, im just happy i found a happy point in a short period of time, i really dont want to screw with the AI again. Ive messed with this since ummm.. 2005.

The thread that started it all where the AI is concerned. 39 pages of technical talk, guesswork, subtle jabs, amazing discoveries, and petty disagreements:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=86629

[hyperion2206]

I don't know yet, i got wrapped up in AI issues, so i havent gotten to the captains mod yet.

I will though, it looks like a must have.

As for foobars new rec manual, i havent looked at it yet either.

To be honest, i dont examine every mod that ever gets posted. Tmaru is getting big.. and its becoming too much for one person to handle. So when an element within it is done - i usually don't go back and look at that element again unless theres a compatiblity issue.
I don't think you should know every mod. Trying to know every mod is a futile attempt I believe.
The reason why I asked is that the 2 recognition manual mods take 2 different approaches I think:
FooBars mod changed the look of the recognition manual, the allocation of the ships and put the lenght of the ships into the manual.
CapnScurvy changed the target ship’s manual range finding reference point so it is easier to get the range of the ships.

[ReallyDedPoet]

On another note CapnScurvy has been in touch with me and would like to see his mod included in TM.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=126016


Looks like a good one, but could you make it optional Ducimus :yep:


RDP

[tater]

Regarding that long thread linked to... a few pages in there is a mention of decoys and bubbles as noise. It's my understanding that a SH4 DC explosion doesn't mess up the sound detection at all, whereas in RL it did for quite a while.

Just thinking out loud:

What is it about a decoy that makes it a decoy? Could the decoy effect be added to DCs? DC blows, and in addition to explosion, it becomes a decoy for X minutes. A single one would get other escorts to drop on it, but any kind of group of DCs might really throw them for a loop.

[Wilcke]

Regarding that long thread linked to... a few pages in there is a mention of decoys and bubbles as noise. It's my understanding that a SH4 DC explosion doesn't mess up the sound detection at all, whereas in RL it did for quite a while.

Just thinking out loud:

What is it about a decoy that makes it a decoy? Could the decoy effect be added to DCs? DC blows, and in addition to explosion, it becomes a decoy for X minutes. A single one would get other escorts to drop on it, but any kind of group of DCs might really throw them for a loop.

C&*%.....you mean to tell me that when I scoot to flank and cans are going off they can still hear me.....:damn:

Its all in the details innit........:rotfl:

:nope: Frustrated at 30 fathoms.....:shifty:

Wilcke

[Ducimus]

>>you mean to tell me that when I scoot to flank and cans are going off they can still hear me..

Yup.

[barndog]

just wondering

[Ducimus]

Tweaking the AI' is slowing me down.

[barndog]

I haven't actually run in to a problem with 171

[FooFighters]

Hi Duci,

Just a little explanation about the 2 recognition manuals.

Mine is a complete new manual which is based on Japanese shiptypes instead of the original country base. I also added length in the manual.

The other mod has to do with accurancy of range. This mod focus on a different way of using the stadimeter.

With just a bit of modding they can be compatible.

;)

[Ducimus]

On another note CapnScurvy has been in touch with me and would like to see his mod included in TM.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=126016


Looks like a good one, but could you make it optional Ducimus :yep:


RDP

What motivates this request? I haven't looked at yet. So im curious.



a complete new manual which is based on Japanese shiptypes instead of the original country base. I also added length in the manual.


Now you've got my attention, this sounds REALLY cool. Flipping through countries is annoying.

Side note, i think i have the AI adjusted to a reasonble state. One or two more tests to confirm it, So i can move on to other things to get this version done soon.

[ReallyDedPoet]

On another note CapnScurvy has been in touch with me and would like to see his mod included in TM.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=126016

Looks like a good one, but could you make it optional Ducimus :yep:


RDP
What motivates this request? I haven't looked at yet. So im curious.



From that mod,:

- This modification for Silent Hunter 4 changes the target ship’s manual range finding reference point from the mast, to a more central location. This change will provide a greater amount of accuracy between the sub and target by using structures that are easily seen and have been calibrated for the Stadimeter. The new central positions may use the top of a ship’s funnel(s), carrier flight deck, or other structures to provide this reference point. These new positions were calibrated for accuracy with various ship headings and ranges. The changes will provide a needed correction to the stock game data. This correction is good for both metric and imperial game play. -

You had mentioned that you had been asked by CapnScurvy to consider this, I like the current way of finding range, so I wanted to throw my two cents in as far as it being optional as compared to being integrated right into Trigger. That being said I may try the above at some point in time, a does look like nice mod :yep:

Plus I like foofighters new Recognition Mod, a comment from FF:

It's compatible, There is just one slight problem. If you use mods like TM and RDRSC you will have some new added ships that does not have these new mast heights.


RDP

[Ducimus]

New version is up.

Im taking a break from modding for awhile. This version should ride for awhile, i dont anticipate much trouble with it, but ill keep an eye on it for any major issues. I decided to not add any new features or mods in this version because its that much more that could go wrong. At this point, its all about making sure its all nice, neat, compatible, and functioning 100% before i go and start adding new features.

[partyboy]

Thanks for all your hard work, Ducimus.

[Ducimus]

BTW, i updated the FAQ and orginal post for the mod.

[Reece]

This old U-Boat Kaelan thanks you Ducimus!:yep: (Sorry, I just had to say that!!:lol:)
Edit: Now all I gotta do is figure out what this mod is all about!!

[partyboy]

This old U-Boat Kaelan thanks you Ducimus!:yep: (Sorry, I just had to say that!!:lol:)
Edit: Now all I gotta do is figure out what this mod is all about!!
It's all about making the game more realistic, more dynamic, an overall better experience. I love it.

[Reece]

Would you believe that I got to 95% and the download just stopped dead, what a bummer!!:nope: I think I will wait for the second link.:yep:

[Karbo]

Ducimus,
I really appreciate what you have done. I want you to know that your latest Trigger Maru has solved my flashing issues that I had.

S!

[Ducimus]

Edit: Now all I gotta do is figure out what this mod is all about!!

Don't ask me mac, i just work here! :rotfl: