I wonder if we really only have two engines

[Ducimus]

Ive had this hunch for awhile, and this kind of supports it.

You know all those post about only have 2 engines destroyed but being unable to move?

Well, ive always thought, it was because we *really* only have two engines. Or so has been my hunch. Since the game is based off of Sh3, and in SH3, subs only had two main engines, not four.

So, if you look closely at a subs UPC file, heres what you'll find:

(note the bold sections)


[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 2]
ID= EqSlotDEPF
NameDisplayable= No 1 Main Engine
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoDEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, GatoDieselEngine
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= 21

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 3]
ID= EqSlotDESF
NameDisplayable= No 2 Main Engine
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoDEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, GatoDieselEngine
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= 55

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 4]
ID= EqSlotDEPA
NameDisplayable= No 3 Main Engine
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoDEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, GatoDieselEngine
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= -1

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 5]
ID= EqSlotDESA
NameDisplayable= No 4 Main Engine
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoDEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, GatoDieselEngine
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= -1

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 6]
ID= EqSlotEEPF
NameDisplayable= No 1 Electric Engine
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoEEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, GatoElectricEngine
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= 22

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 7]
ID= EqSlotEESF
NameDisplayable= No 2 Electric Engine
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoEEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, GatoElectricEngine
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= 56

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 8]
ID= EqSlotEEPA
NameDisplayable= No 3 Electric Engine
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoEEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, GatoElectricEngine
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= -1

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2.EquipmentSlot 9]
ID= EqSlotEESA
NameDisplayable= No 4 Electric Engine
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoEEngine
UserCustomizable=No
IDLinkEquipmentIntervalDefault1= NULL, NULL, GatoElectricEngine
ExternalNodeName3D= NULL
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= -1



So it looks like, engines number 3, and 4, arent tied into any damage zone. Do they really do anything? I don't know, but i kinda doubt that they do.And from behavior observed where if you lose the number 1 and 2 engines you end up being dead in the water.... this would explain alot. Could it be that engines 3 and 4, are purely just for looks?

[LukeFF]

Interesting. What would happen if the zone ID was changed for 3 and 4?

[Ducimus]

Im not sure, but my feeling is we'd be twice as vulnerable to being disabled. If theres only two *real* engine damage zones, it could mean that we'd concievably have twice the "surface area" exposed to damage. In short, if we lost any two of the engines, we'd still be dead in the water, only much quicker. Or so is my guess.

[Peto]

:hmm: You're probably right. And it would be a buggar to rewire the game to recognize/use them. As long as that was being done, another button might as well be added that could be used to turn them on and off. :hmm:

[Anvart]

Ive had this hunch for awhile, and this kind of supports it.
...
Could it be that engines 3 and 4, are purely just for looks?
... And you have 4 RPM dials ... 2 left and 2 right ... ;)
May be it's not finished feature...
And now it's eye-candy only ... :hmm:

P.S.
And (in Command Room sub interior) the part of dials do not work ... eye-candy ... because, have no own dial controllers ...

[mrbeast]

Ive had this hunch for awhile, and this kind of supports it.
...
Could it be that engines 3 and 4, are purely just for looks?
... And you have 4 RPM dials ... 2 left and 2 right ... ;)
May be it's not finished feature...
And now it's eye-candy only ... :hmm:

P.S.
And (in Command Room sub interior) the part of dials do not work ... eye-candy ... because, have no own dial controllers ...


Good point, Anvart, perhaps the devs planned to include all four engines and full control for them but were unable to finnish it owing to the deadline restrictions they were working under. So they just went with the basic two enigne configuration.

[Fincuan]

Good point, Anvart, perhaps the devs planned to include all four engines and full control for them but were unable to finnish it owing to the deadline restrictions they were working under. So they just went with the basic two enigne configuration.

Judging by the loads of unused SH3 files still present in SH4 that would be no surprise. You could almost throw in the SH3 executable, and you'd have SH3 with loads of SH4 files left over :)

[pythos]

Actually I found that if the HP for the engines is multiplied by two, you get the effect of having four engines.

I purposely got deck gunned by another ship after doing this mod to obtain damage to the diesles. The result? The damage acted as if it was taking out one engine at a time. I had two engines "destroyed" and two that were slighty damaged, and was still able to make 8 knots, with the diesle sound audible.

I have to look at which files I modded, cause lately this has not been an issue with the mods, and patches of late.

The S-boats are definitely modeled as having two engines, which is correct. They even have one propeller not turn while the batteries are charged.

[AVGWarhawk]

I purposely got deck gunned by another ship after doing this mod to obtain damage to the diesles. The result? The damage acted as if it was taking out one engine at a time. I had two engines "destroyed" and two that were slighty damaged, and was still able to make 8 knots, with the diesle sound audible.

This sounds very interesting.

[Jib01]

Ahhh, c'mon, the 2 extra diesels are for the new advanced sub that was coming out at the end of the war. They worked off the CO2 in the spaces when under water and gave 18 knots. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Jib01

[Ducimus]

I purposely got deck gunned by another ship after doing this mod to obtain damage to the diesles. The result? The damage acted as if it was taking out one engine at a time. I had two engines "destroyed" and two that were slighty damaged, and was still able to make 8 knots, with the diesle sound audible.



Which engines were destroyed? 3 and 4, or 1 and 2? Theres a big difference there.

[JimRat]

Could this be the chink in the armour that allows us to get home even though we have a couple of engines damaged?......
Oh why oh why didn't I study computers in the Nav instead of learning how to find out where I was when surrounded by nothing but Blue Water? (just make sure you change charts before you run into the chart wall when you get to one of the edges of the chart).

I know next to nothing, (alright to be honest....nothing at all), about programming or hex editing, etc. , But Ducimus where did you find these files? Is there a seperate file for each class of Sub? I'm wondering if I could tinker with them to see if'n I can get all four engines accounted for....Just a pipe dream maybe.:-?

[tater]

This will mess with your experiments with AP DCs, but this is my idea.

There is zero chance in RL that the diesels would ALL be taken out by a DC attack. In addition, fleet boats had an aux engine not modeled in the game.

To stop a fleet boat from moving forever, you need to destroy FIVE diesels in RL. Five.

So, we should make the engines indestructible to DC attack. If their armor factor value is 4 like other things, meaning there is a 100 point damage threshold, we make the AFV 20 instead. Armor 20, AFV 20, then 400 damage is required to touch them (for stock it would be 500 (AV=25)). If it was 10, then 200 or 250. That's a minradius DC. Perhaps that is better.

We do that, and a contact DC will damage the engines, bot anything else will not touch them... except GUNS that have AP. Drive on the surface, you can lose diesels, underwater, 100% safe except a boat killing DC.

tater

[tater]

The diesels have 100 hitpoints.

zones glop:
[DieselEngineRoom]
Category=Engines Room
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=20.00000
HitPoints=200
Destructible=No
Armor Level=-1
Critic Flotation=0.15
Critical=No
Effect1=#dc_bubbles, 10
Effect2=#Oil_trace, 20
FloodingTime=120
CargoType=None
[DieselEngine1]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=100
Destructible=No
Armor Level=25
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
Father=29
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

[DieselEngine2]
Multiplier=1.0
Flotability=0.0
HitPoints=100
Destructible=No
Armor Level=25
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
Father=29
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None
What about massively upping the armor on them?

What we want is that a shell with AP (or a bomb) that HITS the engine room (not a near miss), can take them out. Since only 2 matter in game, it should be at least twice as hard. If a single hit to the compartment tends to hit both at once, then it should be 4 times harder to kill them.

[AVGWarhawk]

Here is the crazy part of this game and modeled very poorly. Normally the 4 engined submarines could run at 15 1/2 knots on two engines. Thus saving fuel but also making good time at 15 1/2 knots. We have to run at 11 knots on supposedly 4 engines not to burn up fuel. :roll:

Separate engine controls is almost a must with the present game setup.

[Ducimus]

The diesels have 100 hitpoints.

zones glop:
[DieselEngineRoom]
Category=Engines Room
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=20.00000
HitPoints=200
Destructible=No
Armor Level=-1
Critic Flotation=0.15
Critical=No
Effect1=#dc_bubbles, 10
Effect2=#Oil_trace, 20
FloodingTime=120
CargoType=None
[DieselEngine1]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=0.000000
HitPoints=100
Destructible=No
Armor Level=25
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
Father=29
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None

[DieselEngine2]
Multiplier=1.0
Flotability=0.0
HitPoints=100
Destructible=No
Armor Level=25
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
Father=29
FloodingTime=59.999996
CargoType=None
What about massively upping the armor on them?

What we want is that a shell with AP (or a bomb) that HITS the engine room (not a near miss), can take them out. Since only 2 matter in game, it should be at least twice as hard. If a single hit to the compartment tends to hit both at once, then it should be 4 times harder to kill them.


Excellent idea!

[tater]

What's the difference between the overall compartment we see fot the engine room, and the diesel engine room vs electric, etc?

Can we make the [Diesel Engine Room] have 50 armor instead of -1? That would be a 200 point min to penetrate with a non-AP DC, right?

Is -1 no armor, or infinite?

[Ducimus]

-1 i beleive means default value, ... 25 if im not mistaken.


I have an alternate idea. Rather then add AF, i think i might try doubleing or trippling the hitpoints in the UPC for just engines 1 and 2.

edt: nevermind on that just 1 or 2, looks like its an all or nothing deal.

[tater]

I just changed the armor to 50 (some are explicitly 25, which is default, no?). I got sunk a couple times by kaibokans and not once did I lose diesels, though I took light damage to them.

Unfortunately most damage was to the forward hull in most cases.

tater

[WernerSobe]

I hope that helps

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7990/enginessw6.jpg


So, yes there are only two electric and two diesel engines.

Let me explain.

NSS_Porpoise.zon defines the compartments. There are 4 compartments of type 21,22,55,56. These are the links to zone properties in zones.cfg.

increasing armor will make the engines take no damage at all when the bombs cannot penetrate it.
increasing hp will cause less damage but will still damage both.

What you can do:
1. you can have 4 engines. by creating 4 new zones and zoneproperty-entries.
2. you can make the zones smaller and wider appart so its harder to hit all engines simultaneously.

Adding new zones is hexwork, you can just copy existing zones and change their coordinates. At same time you can make the displacements. When adding new property entries ones must be carefull. You may not just add new zones to the zonelist. There can only be 210 zones and they are all used. So what you can do is replace an existing zone. You must find zones that are basicly the same and combine them to make a free zonenumber that you can use.

[tater]

There are hitpoints in the zone, too. What's the diff? If it's -1 in the zone, then it uses the UPC value, perhaps?

tater

[WernerSobe]

I just changed the armor to 50 (some are explicitly 25, which is default, no?). I got sunk a couple times by kaibokans and not once did I lose diesels, though I took light damage to them.

Unfortunately most damage was to the forward hull in most cases.

tater
Armorlevel -1 in zones.cfg means the armorlevel of zone itself is taken. See screenshot. The armor level in zone is also set to -1. That means the standard value of the vessel is taken which is in the case of porpoise 25. (its in CollisionableObject Properties)

[Ducimus]

As an aside, i just reminded myself that the HP's in the UPC file wont do much in this scenario.

Ive instead opted to just increase the HP's in the zones.cfg from 200, to 400. Leaving the AP at whatever the default is. I want engine damage... i just dont want them obliterated so quickly.


Oh, i just found a neat way to test DC's.

in the torp sim file.
set it to run circular 100% of the time.
Set the magnetic det range to whatever approximate you want the simulated DC to explode at. (im currently testing 10 meters)

In the zon file, set your min max damage and radius to equal that of a depth charge.




Adventures in modding! :rotfl:

[tater]

So if I add a real value, it uses that instead.

In the zon file, are the diesels themselves in a node someplace? I can see them (various zones) with S3D, but they are not labeled.

I think if we could make the diesels vulnerable to destruction to weapons with AP, but NOT to weapons without AP, we'd be in good shape. A close DC might still take them out, but if a DC goes off in contact, you should probably be dead anyway. That would be a "mission kill" and I'd be fine with that.

I just hate the fact that it's common in DC attacks to lose just 2 engines and it's career ending.

Honestly, the batteries charging on the surface with the diesels destroyed in the early game versions was more realistic in many ways since the game doesn't even have the aux engine. The chances that they couldn't get ONE of 5 working enough to charge batteries seems pretty unlikely, and right now it's a career ender.

tater

[tater]

Cool idea on testing!

tater

[Ducimus]

Cool idea on testing!

tater

In theory.... the results im getting, dont compare to what ive seen underwater.

I think whats happening is the torpedo is g oing too fast. so the velocity of the fish is pushing the explosion point ALOT closer, so that every hit is near direct one. Gonna try to slow the fish down and see how it works then.


edit:

a 3 kt torpedo is halarious, but isnt whats needed. I think the mag det range isnt a direct 1 to 1 translation. Think bigger on the mag det range. Gonna have to eyeball whats close and whats not.

[tater]

Slow them to 3-5 m/s, lol.

[Ducimus]

See edit of last post :P

edit:

Using torepdos as a simulated DC.. great idea that doesnt work i think. The damage im seeing is NOTHING like what ive seen underwater with the same settings.

[tater]

I've lost a few diesel engines now with the AV set to 50, HP 200 in the zones diesel engines 1 and 2 parts (no other changes).

In these cases the DCs were "shacks" literally inside the hull. I don't have a problem with this result, frankly. What I want is a distant DC that damages stuff in the compartment, but NOT the diesels to test this.

Oddly, the number 3 and 4 engines took 0.1 while the 1 nd 2 engines took 1.0.

Why are the meaningless engines hard to kill, and the ones that matter aren't?

tater

[WernerSobe]

I've lost a few diesel engines now with the AV set to 50, HP 200 in the zones diesel engines 1 and 2 parts (no other changes).

In these cases the DCs were "shacks" literally inside the hull. I don't have a problem with this result, frankly. What I want is a distant DC that damages stuff in the compartment, but NOT the diesels to test this.

Oddly, the number 3 and 4 engines took 0.1 while the 1 nd 2 engines took 1.0.

Why are the meaningless engines hard to kill, and the ones that matter aren't?

tater

because they might be linked to another compartment. Maybe engineroom.

[tater]

In the zones they both list father=29 (i thnk) which is the engine room. The 3 and 4 have -1 vs 25 for armor I think.

Your other post said "see screenshot," what were you refering to?

tater

[tater]

Ooops, I missed the last post on page 1, that's why I was confused.

Would you say it was better to mess with diesel engine 1 and 2 in the zones.cfg file, or should I change them inside each sub's zon?

How is it that 3 and 4 take damage at all then?

tater

[Peto]

Would it be possible to model 1 diesel in each room? That would make it much harder to lose both in one shot.

[tater]

You mean point one at the electric motor room, and the other at the diesel engine room?

Interesting idea.

Might be as easy as "Father=30" for the 2d diesel...

tater

[Weather-guesser]

This sounds outstanding!...IF you can get the other two engines to take damage. This would be a major big deal and make careers last longer and/or make it more exciting getting "home" with extra damage.

[tater]

It's not just a matter of getting the other 2 to take damage. They need to be functional, otherwise it doesn't matter. I think in the short term making the engines super strong is a better way to go.

Realistically, there is no way that you'd get the diesels completely destroyed from a DC attack. I don;t think it's possible unless the damage did in the sub anyway. If we can get them vulnerable to deck guns, I'd be perfectly happy. We need more reasons to avoid surface fights.

Out of curiosity, is all the diesel fuel in one hit area? Because we could always make it slightly easier to lose fuel as long as we reserve som fuel for RTB. Take some bad DC hits, then RTB.

tater

[nvdrifter]

Anyone realize that the equipment damage zone sphere locations in the sub.zon files can be moved around? Maybe they could be separated farther apart so both wouldn't always be damaged at the same time.

[tater]

Good idea, though I still think they should be FAR harder to damage via DC attacks.

I might go so far as to up at least one of them to have hitpoints high enough that the sub would certainly be sunk before the engine is totally destroyed.

[CaptainHaplo]

Cripes! You guys realized what you have stumbled on here? Its definitely applicable for the engine issue - but unless I am mistaken this answers how the question I have long asked about the 2 damage models being tied together. Damage externally is applied to the zone - and the zone only defines what equipment is there. By modifying the zone properties, or the equipment properties - or both - we can really properly balance ALL the damage effects (except for possibly crew).

Ok - I am going back into the files and see what I can learn here - you guys are the best - I smell smoke from me brain already. If I learn anything I will post it, and of course expect some questions as well - but I thank you all for helping me put the 2 and 2 together!

[tater]

I tried setting the armor at 86 in the zones.cdf file for both diesels. (high enough that my modded 162kg DC could do no damage at a max explosion).

I took a hit that destroyed engines 3 and 4, and did no damage to 1 and 2!

Finally, I got shacked again, and both diesels were destroyed---I think because the entire "father" engineroom compartment was destroyed. I'm cool with that, frankly.

Perhaps I could make one armored even higher, and the other a little less so.

tater

[Weather-guesser]

Is this a future MOD in the works? I'm really excited about this one, but looks like the thread died :dead:

[tater]

It kind of moved to the depth charge thread since my principal concern is not allowing them to get killed by DC attack. Anyone dumb enough to duke it out on the surface deserves to not RTB ;)

I have a test mod right now, when I think it actually works I will let it out as beta (soon).

tater

[ref]

Anyone got a scheme of how the engines are placed in the boats?.
If I have some time this weekend I'll make a new zon file for the subs adding the two missing diesels.

Ref

[tater]

It's only useful assuming that the engines are actually functional. Meanin if we have 4 engines, 3 can be totally destroyed and the sub can still make way. Otherwise it's a bunch of work for little payoff, in fact, a negative payoff.

Assuming that adding them as damage areas allows them to take damage but its NOT functional: You have engines 1 and 2 which provide propulsion/charging. One is destroyed, another damaged. 3 and 4 are also damaged, but they don;t matter cause they don;t make the sub move or charge anything. The damage control teams none the less work on 3 and 4, slowing the repair of the only one left that matters. A nearby DC damages the last remaining one to 100% and it's gone. See what I mean? If they can be 100% functional, then that's a different story.

In reality many boats also had an aux engine. We should really be able to have 4 diesels destroyed utterly and still be able to RTB (good thing for the HOR boats that had self-destructing diesels, lol).

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/diesel/img/fig1-14.jpg


http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/img/fig2-01.jpg

tater

[tater]

Interesting. I made a mod that changed the diesel engine pointer in zones.cfg to father=201 and they still take damage. I upped the hitpoints. They get trashed when the compartment fails totally. I need to run a test with both the compartment and engiens set to impossibly high HPs to make sure the zones file is doing something.

[Weather-guesser]

Outstanding Tater! Three cheers for hopeful functionality! HIP HIP..:rock:

[tater]

Still plugging away.

Anyone familiar with the UPC files? Another option that occured to me is to decrease the repair time for the diesels. This would allow overwhelming damage to get them to 100% (irreparable), but lesser damage would be quickly fixed.

Again, the goal is that it should be nearly impossible to kill of all the diesels on a fleet boat since such a casualty in SH4 is career ending.

[Ducimus]

This i think:

\sh4\Data\UPCData\UPCUnitsData\Equipment.upc




[Equipment 5]
ID=GatoDieselEngine
NameDisplayable= Diesel Engine
FunctionalType= EqFTypeEngineDiesel
EquipmentInterval= NULL, NULL
EquipmentSlotType=GatoDEngine
ExternalLinkName3D= NULL
Hitpoints= 100
;DamageDescription1= Taken_DamageType, MinDamage, MaxDamage, MinMaintenance, MaxMaintenance, chancefactor, Message, Spawned_damage_HP, Spawned_damage_AP, Spawned_Damage_Type, EfficiencyReduction, repair_skill, repairtime_in_hours
DamageDescription1= NULL, 0, 0.2, 0, 1, 1, small malfunction, 0, 0, NULL, 0.3, 0.4, 4
DamageDescription2= NULL, 0.2, 0.6, 0, 1, 1, Misaligned Axis, 0, 0, NULL, 0.5, 0.4, 10
DamageDescription3= NULL, 0.6, 1, 0, 1, 1, fuse blown, 0, 0, NULL, 1, 0.2, 15

[Peto]

Interesting. I notice that a lot of items listed at the end have no associated values. I wonder if any of those actually function in-game :hmm:.

I'm just dropping ideas here--I'm still working on some other sensor ideas atm.

[ref]

Can someone with more experience on the subject test this?

http://rapidshare.com/files/75177250/SH4_1_4_Four_engines_DM.rar.html

I've added two new entries for the missing engines in zones.cfg (211 and 212), decreased a bit the size of the DM boxes in the zon files from the subs and added DM boxes for the missing engines, also linked them on each subs upc file.
Regretably I can't test it now, I'm too busy with the upcoming GWX release, I even coudn't test it in game, but the files are ok (in theory :D )
The extra entries in zones.cfg are copies of the original diesel engines entries.

Ref

[nvdrifter]

This i think:

\sh4\Data\UPCData\UPCUnitsData\Equipment.upc




[Equipment 5]
ID=GatoDieselEngine
NameDisplayable= Diesel Engine
FunctionalType= EqFTypeEngineDiesel
EquipmentInterval= NULL, NULL
EquipmentSlotType=GatoDEngine
ExternalLinkName3D= NULL
Hitpoints= 100
;DamageDescription1= Taken_DamageType, MinDamage, MaxDamage, MinMaintenance, MaxMaintenance, chancefactor, Message, Spawned_damage_HP, Spawned_damage_AP, Spawned_Damage_Type, EfficiencyReduction, repair_skill, repairtime_in_hours
DamageDescription1= NULL, 0, 0.2, 0, 1, 1, small malfunction, 0, 0, NULL, 0.3, 0.4, 4
DamageDescription2= NULL, 0.2, 0.6, 0, 1, 1, Misaligned Axis, 0, 0, NULL, 0.5, 0.4, 10
DamageDescription3= NULL, 0.6, 1, 0, 1, 1, fuse blown, 0, 0, NULL, 1, 0.2, 15


Ducimus, as far as I know most of the equipment.upc file does absolutely nothing. It was a planned part to have equipment breakdowns, but was never implemented. The section that affects repair times is here in the sub *.upc files. For example (in yellow):

[UserPlayerUnit 1.Compartment 2]
CompartmentType= 1
StatusActive= Yes
ID= GatoEnginesRoom
NameDisplayable= Engine Rooms
Type=NULL
FunctionalType= PropulsionRoom
MechanicalCoef= 0.6 ;0..1
ElectricsCoef= 0.4 ;0..1
GunsCoef= 0 ;0..1
WatchmanCoef= 0 ;0..1
WatchStandingCoef= 0.02
MaintenanceCoef= 0.001
RepairsCoef= 0.022
ReloadingweaponCoef= 0.072
SleepCoef= -0.12
LeadersSlots=3
CrewMembersSlots= 15
EffciencyDenominator=5
EffciencyDenominatorBS=10
Hitpoints=200
CrewExposure=0.1
EquipmentsExposure=0.99
WeaponsExposure=0.1
ExternalDamageZoneTypeID3D= 201
DamageDescription1= NULL, 0, 0.2, 0, 1, 1, Minor Leak, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 0.2
DamageDescription2= NULL, 0.2, 0.6, 0, 1, 1, Large hole, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 0.5
DamageDescription3= NULL, 0.6, 1, 0, 1, 1, Wall breached, 0, 0, NULL, 0, 0.2, 1

[tater]

ref, I'll have a look in a little while.

tater

[nvdrifter]

Ref, not good. Crashed my computer. Wouldn't work. :dead:

[tater]

BTW, as I ponted out above someplace (I think), in Zones.cfg there are 2 diesel engines. Both have "Father=29" but the submarine .zon files point at Father=201 (FltEngineRoom).

None the less the 1 and 2 engines take damage regardless (I tried setting the Zones to change Father=201 for the diesels and it works either way).

Is Zones universally used, or is much of it leftover sh3 stuff that is defunct?

[Brenjen]

Complete & functional engines & engine control is the #1 glaring problem with SH4 from my point of view & I had hoped that Ubi would get it right in 1.4; a lot of the other stuff is minor imho. I figure it this way, if I....a submarine game/history novice for the most part can see how horrible this aspect is & has been then why wasn't it corrected? It makes me think they either A: couldn't fix it without a major rework or B: figured "screw it, let the modders fix it"

Proposition "A" would be a major problem, but "B" would mean the ground work is there & only needs to be figured out....is there any way to ask the devs about the engines specifically & get a straight answer?

[tater]

There is an out of range number in the gato zon, ref. S3D crashes on it.

All the others open. Will test with a non-gato.

[tater]

They take damage fine (non-gato). Now I'm gonna make a copy of this and mod the Zones file so that 3 of the 4 engines die if you look at them funny, and #3 or 4 stays intact. Then I will surface and see if it runs the boat.

tater

[ref]

Ref, not good. Crashed my computer. Wouldn't work. :dead:

I'll recheck the changes as soon as I have some time.

Ref

[ref]

Found the problem, I cut some bytes I shoudn't....

Here's the correct one:

http://rapidshare.com/files/75216582/SH4_1_4_Four_engines_DM_v1.rar.html

Ref

[tater]

They take damage, but 3 and 4 are not functional.

IMO, adding them as damagable is a mistake if they don't propel the boat, since it will take damage control resources to fix them to no avail.

I can't seem to find how they are "hooked" to the boat as functional systems. Seems like whatever files mess withthis might also be useful for battery charging issues.

tater

[tater]

Odd also that all the UPC files point to ID= GatoEnginesRoom and in the Zones it is FltEngineRoom. No ref to GatoEnginesRoom I can find yet.

[ref]

They take damage fine (non-gato). Now I'm gonna make a copy of this and mod the Zones file so that 3 of the 4 engines die if you look at them funny, and #3 or 4 stays intact. Then I will surface and see if it runs the boat.

tater

As the DM of the engines is connected to the engines compartment (as they should be), you may want to increase the HPs / ArmorLevel of the engines compartment to make it tougher, that way there's a bigger chance that the engines could be damaged individually.

[FltEngineRoom]
Category=Engines Room
Multiplier=1.0
Flotability=21.64
HitPoints=200
Destructible=No
Armor Level=-1
Critic Flotation=0.15
Critical=No
Effect1=#dc_bubbles, 10
Effect2=#Oil_trace, 20
FloodingTime=860
CargoType=None

In stock 1.4 it has 200 HPs, a DC has a max damage of 230, a well placed one will exceed the compartment HPs, probably a good idea to set it to 250 or so, I'm just looking this for the first time, and I don't know if this is real, but the max range of the deep charges is set to 40 mts and the min damage is 170, It seems a bit high, they should have a smaller radius or a smaller minimum effect.

Ref

[tater]

Most of the mods out already diminish the DC MaxRadius by quite a bit. I've added several DC types and launchers already myself. The damage values are high partially because the boats have huge hitpoints, 600 for Gato/Balao.

Anyway, I can get them to damage individually, but they don;t "work" as engines.

I tried my mod copy of your mod. Engines 1, 2, and 3 were set to 10 hitpoints, armor 1. Engine 4 was set to 10,000 HP, armor 250.

I let myself get DCed in the engine compartment, lost 3 engines totally. Sank the DD, then surfaced.

Engine 4 doesn't work, sub dead in the water.

tater

[tater]

Also, In Zones.cfg, the Father for all the 4 engines is set to 29. This is the "generic" DieselEngineRoom. The zons, however, point at father=201, the FltEngineRoom.

What's up with that?

tater

[tater]

I changed the father=29 to 201 for all 4, they still take damage properly, but 3 and 4 don't function as diesels.

[ref]

I'm just starting to check things here, so I may said something obvious.

In the *.zon files, more preciselliy in the boxes section there's no reference to a "parent", they only contain size, armorlevel and a link field that could point to a "child" object.
All parenting data is handled in zones.cfg.

After reading your previous post I've been looking at the other subs, only the AI ones use the 29 (DieselEngineRoom), and share the 21=DieselEngine1 and 55=DieselEngine2 with the player boats.
The player boats use for the diesel compartment FltEngineRoom (Flt=fleet ?), apparently an attempt to separate the damage from player and AI subs,apparently the problem is that the player subs still use the type 21 and 55 for their engines, possibly creating individual entries for the fleet engines and parenting them to FltEngineRoom instead of DieselEngineRoom could do the trick.


Ref

[tater]

That's what I just did (explained in post above). Didn't work. In the zon file, it uses "Type" instead of "Father" but the numbers are the same. Type=201 as you observed.

I was hoping that pointing your new diesel zones at 201 would do the trick and link them in, but something else is going on here. Maybe 21 and 55 are pointed at by something hardcoded.

tater

[tater]

Just to be clear, they take damage properly, they just won't propel the sub through the water on the sirface.

Wonder if something in the sim points at them under propulsion...

tater

[Wolfling04]

Hello this is my first post and what better place to post then on a forum about something I have wondered since I bought the game the week it came out. Anyways is there maybe a file describing something about horsepower or something along these lines. Would engines 3 and 4 show no power output at all, along with the zone problems?

[tater]

The propulsion stuff is in the sim file, and is generic to the sub. HP, RPMs, max speed, etc. This might only be used for AI subs, though.

So far I've found nothing that links the diesel to propulsion.

tater

[nvdrifter]

The propulsion stuff is in the sim file, and is generic to the sub. HP, RPMs, max speed, etc. This might only be used for AI subs, though.

So far I've found nothing that links the diesel to propulsion.

tater
Probably in one of the .act files. My guess would be the SHsim.act

[Snuffy]

Bump.

been a while for any activity on this ... Just thought I'd see what was going on.